Refuting Calvin's TULIP

Dale

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Judas was a Jew. He was not a Christian. He had fallen from the security of the Abrahamic Covenant. He did not proclaim Jesus as the promised Jewish Messiah. In fact, he rejected Jesus as such, which was blasphemy. He died (or killed himself) prior to the advent of the Cross, leaving him with no hope. Salvation by Grace through Faith was not available to him.


Your answer is pure fantasy. It's not when Judas died, it's what he did and why he did it.
The any of the other Apostles or Disciples had died before the Cross and the Resurrection, would they also be without hope?

Actually, I'm not sure whether the Gospel tells us whether Judas died before or after the cross. We don't have an exact timeline.
 
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PrettyboyAndy

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We are all grateful and thankful to Christ for what he has done for us. And we all believe in God's sovereignty


Great glad you are a calvinist now lol

Welcome! you can come sit with the cool people
 
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Winken

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Your answer is pure fantasy. It's not when Judas died, it's what he did and why he did it.
The any of the other Apostles or Disciples had died before the Cross and the Resurrection, would they also be without hope?

Actually, I'm not sure whether the Gospel tells us whether Judas died before or after the cross. We don't have an exact timeline.

(Matthew 26:49, 50); (Luke 22:48)
Judas approaches Jesus, greets Him with a kiss. Jesus asks, "hetairos, (Greek), do what you have come for."

hetaíros defined: – properly, a companion (normally an imposter), posing to be a comrade but in reality only has his own interests in mind. A "supposed friend," viewed as associated, but actually acting for self-gain.

Read Psalm 41:9, dynamic equivalent translation: "Even the man with whom I had peace, in whom I placed my trust, who ate my bread, has kicked me with his heel." Jesus repeats this in John 13:18.

The original 11 + 1 (added to replace Judas), accepted Jesus as the promised Hebrew Messiah. They were not, then, without hope. They will actually be present in the Kingdom of God on earth, ruling with Jesus over the 12 Tribes of Israel for 1,000 years.
 
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Yahu_

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I agree with you, can you explain this more, I never heard anyone say that before.
Salvation (of the spirit) is a one time EVENT when you become a new creation and gain the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The sin debt was paid at the cross (Justification) and puts us in right standing with the Father.

Sanctification (salvation of the soul) is a PROCESS. It pertains to our spiritual growth and overcoming of error within our life to become more Christ-like. It does NOT pertain to eternal life but REWARDS within the eternal kingdom. Take a look at Rev 2&3 for rewards earned by individuals that overcome the error within their congregation for examples of rewards that are earned.

You can crawl thru the heavenly gates in spiritual diapers and spend eternity with a lowly status in that eternal kingdom or you can earn Robes of Righteousness and hold a position of authority within the throne room. The level of glory attained in the kingdom is EARNED but salvation (entrance into the kingdom) is a free gift for those that repent and believe.

Daniel is clear about the differing status of individual glory for those in the resurrection.

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Some will make it into the kingdom but in shame and everlasting contempt for how they lived while the wise and righteous will shine with earned levels of glory.

The heavenly kingdom will be a caste society based on earned rewards by overcoming error. Some will be vessels of glory while others will not. Many people see the struggle to overcome error and sin in our life as a requirement to EARN salvation but that is incorrect. It is rewards within the kingdom that are earned.

2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

We are instructed to 'buy gold refined in the fires' and store up our wealth in heaven. The NT has many references to this concept. Victors crowns for winning the race isn't for salvation but sanctification, spiritual maturity. You don't even enter the race until you gain salvation (of the spirit).

Re 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Who wants to be a poor, blind and naked beggar in the eternal kingdom consigned to a ghetto apartment on the outer walls of the heavenly city? That is the difference with people that use their salvation and grace to continue to live in sin. There are consequences BUT it isn't a 'loss of salvation' but a loss of rewards/status in the heavenly kingdom.

There are 3 salvations. Salvation of the spirit, soul and body. Of course the salvation of the body is done at the resurrection into an eternal glorified body.

People need to study out the differences and references to Justification, Sanctification and Glorification. Many confuse the sanctification process with EARNING salvation.
 
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PrettyboyAndy

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Salvation (of the spirit) is a one time EVENT when you become a new creation and gain the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The sin debt was paid at the cross (Justification) and puts us in right standing with the Father.

Sanctification (salvation of the soul) is a PROCESS. It pertains to our spiritual growth and overcoming of error within our life to become more Christ-like. It does NOT pertain to eternal life but REWARDS within the eternal kingdom. Take a look at Rev 2&3 for rewards earned by individuals that overcome the error within their congregation for examples of rewards that are earned.

You can crawl thru the heavenly gates in spiritual diapers and spend eternity with a lowly status in that eternal kingdom or you can earn Robes of Righteousness and hold a position of authority within the throne room. The level of glory attained in the kingdom is EARNED but salvation (entrance into the kingdom) is a free gift for those that repent and believe.

Daniel is clear about the differing status of individual glory for those in the resurrection.

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Some will make it into the kingdom but in shame and everlasting contempt for how they lived while the wise and righteous will shine with earned levels of glory.

The heavenly kingdom will be a caste society based on earned rewards by overcoming error. Some will be vessels of glory while others will not. Many people see the struggle to overcome error and sin in our life as a requirement to EARN salvation but that is incorrect. It is rewards within the kingdom that are earned.

2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

We are instructed to 'buy gold refined in the fires' and store up our wealth in heaven. The NT has many references to this concept. Victors crowns for winning the race isn't for salvation but sanctification, spiritual maturity. You don't even enter the race until you gain salvation (of the spirit).

Re 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Who wants to be a poor, blind and naked beggar in the eternal kingdom consigned to a ghetto apartment on the outer walls of the heavenly city? That is the difference with people that use their salvation and grace to continue to live in sin. There are consequences BUT it isn't a 'loss of salvation' but a loss of rewards/status in the heavenly kingdom.

There are 3 salvations. Salvation of the spirit, soul and body. Of course the salvation of the body is done at the resurrection into an eternal glorified body.

People need to study out the differences and references to Justification, Sanctification and Glorification. Many confuse the sanctification process with EARNING salvation.

Beautiful post, thank you for taking the time to explain.

I agree with it all, the rewards bit I am unsure of, because technically aren't we all like Christ in the eyes of the father? You can't get better then that.

I also know the crowns that we can earn, we throw back at the Lord when we are in heaven, so yes It would be nice to have a crown to throw to Him, but I don't think God would give a ghetto apartment to one and a mansion to another
 
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Yahu_

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Beautiful post, thank you for taking the time to explain.

I agree with it all, the rewards bit I am unsure of, because technically aren't we all like Christ in the eyes of the father? You can't get better then that.

I also know the crowns that we can earn, we throw back at the Lord when we are in heaven, so yes It would be nice to have a crown to throw to Him, but I don't think God would give a ghetto apartment to one and a mansion to another

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Not everyone is blessed and Yeshua is clear that His rewards is given 'according our work'. Those rewards are not for salvation but for following His commandments. You follow His commandments you earn rewards. You disobey His commandments you earn punishment. A punishment may even be to be excluded from the inner gates of the wall to gain access to the 'tree of life' or be excluded even to 'outside the walls'. And we know who is 'outside the walls'.

Rev 22:15 For without (outside the walls) are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

These are people that have salvation but have MAJOR error still within their lives. They are totally excluded from the Heavenly city, but not the Heavenly kingdom. BTW, dogs in Hebrew is an idiom for homosexuals.

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

What of those that don't overcome the error in the church of Ephesus? Either they are not saved but members of the church or they are saved but are not blessed with the right to eat of the tree. And remember the tree lines the streets inside the walls. The wall itself is 30 stories high and 30 stories deep and runs for 6000 miles around the city. Just as Rahab the harlot lived on the outer wall in Jericho, the poor live on the walls of the city.

If you don't overcome the error of the church of Sardis, you have no robes of righteousness, ie naked. Well being in a loin cloth is considered naked by Hebrew standards. Sardis was the worldly church living in sin but using grace to indulge in that sin.

Remember the guest at the wedding feast that didn't have his 'wedding cloths' was cast out as unworthy to attend. The 'outer darkness' isn't hell or the lake of fire. It is the farthest from the throne of glory for those unworthy. The actual Greek word used does not mean 'darkness' as in a total absence of light but 'shade', a dim light. It is the lowest caste within the heavenly kingdom. Not everyone will be fit to be jurors, judges, rulers over nations, counselors, priests or kings. Only the top level overcomers earn the positions of priests or kings.

IMO many Calvinists fall into the error of the church of Ephesus. In their arrogance that they are 'the elect' and others are doomed, they lack love for those Christians struggling to overcome error (the spiritual immature) in their life and consider them not among the elect. IMO there will be MANY Calvinists in those ghetto apartments. Add the sovereignty of God doctrine that what ever they do must be the will of Yah, justifying their error, they are in for a rude surprise at the Bema Seat.

Even if the eternal consequence of sin totally separating you from the heavenly kingdom is forgiven, there are still consequences for your actions in this life. What of sins against your fellow man?

Do you even realize there is a heavenly whipping post?

Lu 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Not only will rewards be given at the Bema Seat but also punishments given for offenses and woe unto those that harm the little ones.

Mt 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Mr 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Lu 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

We are ALL to come to Him as 'little children' but any that harm the 'little ones' are better off committing suicide then facing His wrath at the Bema Seat judgement.

The Bema Seat judgement will not be a fun thing for many Christians. They will get the reward they are due whether it is crowns of glory or stripes of punishment and an eternal lowly status in the kingdom. The concept that salvation and eternal life are the only goals is a major misconception. This life is your job interview for your eternal position.
 
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PrettyboyAndy

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Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Not everyone is blessed and Yeshua is clear that His rewards is given 'according our work'. Those rewards are not for salvation but for following His commandments. You follow His commandments you earn rewards. You disobey His commandments you earn punishment. A punishment may even be to be excluded from the inner gates of the wall to gain access to the 'tree of life' or be excluded even to 'outside the walls'. And we know who is 'outside the walls'.

Rev 22:15 For without (outside the walls) are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

These are people that have salvation but have MAJOR error still within their lives. They are totally excluded from the Heavenly city, but not the Heavenly kingdom. BTW, dogs in Hebrew is an idiom for homosexuals.

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

What of those that don't overcome the error in the church of Ephesus? Either they are not saved but members of the church or they are saved but are not blessed with the right to eat of the tree. And remember the tree lines the streets inside the walls. The wall itself is 30 stories high and 30 stories deep and runs for 6000 miles around the city. Just as Rahab the harlot lived on the outer wall in Jericho, the poor live on the walls of the city.

If you don't overcome the error of the church of Sardis, you have no robes of righteousness, ie naked. Well being in a loin cloth is considered naked by Hebrew standards. Sardis was the worldly church living in sin but using grace to indulge in that sin.

Remember the guest at the wedding feast that didn't have his 'wedding cloths' was cast out as unworthy to attend. The 'outer darkness' isn't hell or the lake of fire. It is the farthest from the throne of glory for those unworthy. The actual Greek word used does not mean 'darkness' as in a total absence of light but 'shade', a dim light. It is the lowest caste within the heavenly kingdom. Not everyone will be fit to be jurors, judges, rulers over nations, counselors, priests or kings. Only the top level overcomers earn the positions of priests or kings.

IMO many Calvinists fall into the error of the church of Ephesus. In their arrogance that they are 'the elect' and others are doomed, they lack love for those Christians struggling to overcome error (the spiritual immature) in their life and consider them not among the elect. IMO there will be MANY Calvinists in those ghetto apartments. Add the sovereignty of God doctrine that what ever they do must be the will of Yah, justifying their error, they are in for a rude surprise at the Bema Seat.

Even if the eternal consequence of sin totally separating you from the heavenly kingdom is forgiven, there are still consequences for your actions in this life. What of sins against your fellow man?

Do you even realize there is a heavenly whipping post?

Lu 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Not only will rewards be given at the Bema Seat but also punishments given for offenses and woe unto those that harm the little ones.

Mt 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Mr 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Lu 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

We are ALL to come to Him as 'little children' but any that harm the 'little ones' are better off committing suicide then facing His wrath at the Bema Seat judgement.

The Bema Seat judgement will not be a fun thing for many Christians. They will get the reward they are due whether it is crowns of glory or stripes of punishment and an eternal lowly status in the kingdom. The concept that salvation and eternal life are the only goals is a major misconception. This life is your job interview for your eternal position.

But heaven will be perfect, and the Lord died and paid for all our sins, past present and future.

If there was a caste system, wouldn't that create some type of jealously, it only appears it would. Which would coincide with a perfect heaven and sinless glorified state of the believer.

I can't see punishment to the disobedient believer, because thats what Christ died for.

It would make sense to reward a faithful believer though, I agree
 
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PrettyboyAndy

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Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Not everyone is blessed and Yeshua is clear that His rewards is given 'according our work'. Those rewards are not for salvation but for following His commandments. You follow His commandments you earn rewards. You disobey His commandments you earn punishment. A punishment may even be to be excluded from the inner gates of the wall to gain access to the 'tree of life' or be excluded even to 'outside the walls'. And we know who is 'outside the walls'.

Rev 22:15 For without (outside the walls) are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

These are people that have salvation but have MAJOR error still within their lives. They are totally excluded from the Heavenly city, but not the Heavenly kingdom. BTW, dogs in Hebrew is an idiom for homosexuals.

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

What of those that don't overcome the error in the church of Ephesus? Either they are not saved but members of the church or they are saved but are not blessed with the right to eat of the tree. And remember the tree lines the streets inside the walls. The wall itself is 30 stories high and 30 stories deep and runs for 6000 miles around the city. Just as Rahab the harlot lived on the outer wall in Jericho, the poor live on the walls of the city.

If you don't overcome the error of the church of Sardis, you have no robes of righteousness, ie naked. Well being in a loin cloth is considered naked by Hebrew standards. Sardis was the worldly church living in sin but using grace to indulge in that sin.

Remember the guest at the wedding feast that didn't have his 'wedding cloths' was cast out as unworthy to attend. The 'outer darkness' isn't hell or the lake of fire. It is the farthest from the throne of glory for those unworthy. The actual Greek word used does not mean 'darkness' as in a total absence of light but 'shade', a dim light. It is the lowest caste within the heavenly kingdom. Not everyone will be fit to be jurors, judges, rulers over nations, counselors, priests or kings. Only the top level overcomers earn the positions of priests or kings.

IMO many Calvinists fall into the error of the church of Ephesus. In their arrogance that they are 'the elect' and others are doomed, they lack love for those Christians struggling to overcome error (the spiritual immature) in their life and consider them not among the elect. IMO there will be MANY Calvinists in those ghetto apartments. Add the sovereignty of God doctrine that what ever they do must be the will of Yah, justifying their error, they are in for a rude surprise at the Bema Seat.

Even if the eternal consequence of sin totally separating you from the heavenly kingdom is forgiven, there are still consequences for your actions in this life. What of sins against your fellow man?

Do you even realize there is a heavenly whipping post?

Lu 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Not only will rewards be given at the Bema Seat but also punishments given for offenses and woe unto those that harm the little ones.

Mt 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Mr 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Lu 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

We are ALL to come to Him as 'little children' but any that harm the 'little ones' are better off committing suicide then facing His wrath at the Bema Seat judgement.

The Bema Seat judgement will not be a fun thing for many Christians. They will get the reward they are due whether it is crowns of glory or stripes of punishment and an eternal lowly status in the kingdom. The concept that salvation and eternal life are the only goals is a major misconception. This life is your job interview for your eternal position.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

In Genesis we were cut off from the tree of life, Christ came to restore fellowship between us, granting salvation to the believer, which would restore relationship which was severed in the garden.

The believer will have access to the tree of life, the non believer will not have access to the tree of life, nor inherit the Kingdom of God, and be cast out into eternal darkness (hell)

I truly believe many of the verses you quoted and examples you gave, apply to the non believers who are heading into the gates of destruction.

Rev 22:15 For without (outside the walls) are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie

You can not say the above mentioned are disobedient believers, you just can't. These are non believers.

My sheep hear my voice and they follow me, the believer will follow the Lord, the non believer will not follow the Lord.

Christ died for the believer and the full wrath of God was placed on the Son, so that we became blameless to him, our dirty record gets exchanged with Christs sinless life, God sees the righteousness of the son, when he looks at us.
 
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Yahu_

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But heaven will be perfect, and the Lord died and paid for all our sins, past present and future.

If there was a caste system, wouldn't that create some type of jealously, it only appears it would. Which would coincide with a perfect heaven and sinless glorified state of the believer.

I can't see punishment to the disobedient believer, because thats what Christ died for.

It would make sense to reward a faithful believer though, I agree
LOL, It doesn't matter what you think heaven will be like. I have given you scripture that contradicts that thinking. He died to cover the eternal consequences allowing you entrance and eternal life. Yeshua put you in right standing with the Father, not right standing with your fellow man you have offended or Him.

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, THEN all tears will be wiped away because all judgement will be JUST. As for jealousy, everyone will get what they earned. Besides jealousy would be sin of coveting your neighbors status/wealth. Is it just for a righteous man to get the same status as someone who spent their life in wickedness and repented on their death bed?

Scripture is clear that to be great in the kingdom of Heaven, you are to serve on earth. What happens to those that usurp false authority and rule over others? They will be among the least in heaven. Yeshua even stated He HATES the actions of the Nicolations. Are you suggesting there is no consequence for harming the little ones or being like the Nicolations?

What you are suggesting is that there is no consequences for any of your actions because all sins are already covered. David repented for his adultery with Bathsheba but he still lost his child and had a curse of the sword on his house because of his actions. Sin has consequences in both this life and eternally.

Have you asked and received forgiveness for every sin you have ever committed against your brethren? What is bound on earth is bound in heaven. The heaven books will be opened and your life will be judged. It may be written in the lamb's book of life but what else is written.

Justification pays the sin debt to the Father. You are not being judged by the Father but by Yeshua for how well you obeyed Him for covering those sins.
 
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Dale

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(Matthew 26:49, 50); (Luke 22:48)
Judas approaches Jesus, greets Him with a kiss. Jesus asks, "hetairos, (Greek), do what you have come for."

hetaíros defined: – properly, a companion (normally an imposter), posing to be a comrade but in reality only has his own interests in mind. A "supposed friend," viewed as associated, but actually acting for self-gain.

Read Psalm 41:9, dynamic equivalent translation: "Even the man with whom I had peace, in whom I placed my trust, who ate my bread, has kicked me with his heel." Jesus repeats this in John 13:18.

The original 11 + 1 (added to replace Judas), accepted Jesus as the promised Hebrew Messiah. They were not, then, without hope. They will actually be present in the Kingdom of God on earth, ruling with Jesus over the 12 Tribes of Israel for 1,000 years.


Winken: << Judas approaches Jesus, greets Him with a kiss. Jesus asks, "hetairos, (Greek), do what you have come for." >>

That is what Judas did. This tells us nothing about predestination.

<< hetaíros defined: – properly, a companion (normally an imposter), posing to be a comrade but in reality only has his own interests in mind. A "supposed friend," viewed as associated, but actually acting for self-gain. >>

If it is that simple, why did Jesus make Judas an Apostle? It doesn't add up.

Is John the Baptist saved? Or was he lost because he died before the cross? Was he lost because he died before Jesus fulfilled the prophecies of the Messiah?
 
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Thursday

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The Bible says:

being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. Philippians 1:4

So if you are saved, you can not lose salvation

That's not what it says. Confidence is faith, in fact it contains the root word Fide.

However sin can shipwreck our faith.

If our faith is shipwrecked, will we go to heaven?
 
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PrettyboyAndy

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That's not what it says. Confidence is faith, in fact it contains the root word Fide.

However sin can shipwreck our faith.

If our faith is shipwrecked, will we go to heaven?
We go to heaven if we are saved and have the Holy Spirit, which is a seal for the believer. - Jesus said unless you are born again you cannot enter the kingdom of God.

As a believer, yes we can lose out on the Bema seat rewards, possibly
 
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PrettyboyAndy

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You can't fall away from a place you never were, just as you can't be cut from a branch that you weren't attached to.

You are grasping at straws again.

The Holy Spirit will not indwell a non believer brother, the person whom the Holy Spirit indwells in a believer sealed in Christ
 
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PrettyboyAndy

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LOL, It doesn't matter what you think heaven will be like. I have given you scripture that contradicts that thinking. He died to cover the eternal consequences allowing you entrance and eternal life. Yeshua put you in right standing with the Father, not right standing with your fellow man you have offended or Him.

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, THEN all tears will be wiped away because all judgement will be JUST. As for jealousy, everyone will get what they earned. Besides jealousy would be sin of coveting your neighbors status/wealth. Is it just for a righteous man to get the same status as someone who spent their life in wickedness and repented on their death bed?

Scripture is clear that to be great in the kingdom of Heaven, you are to serve on earth. What happens to those that usurp false authority and rule over others? They will be among the least in heaven. Yeshua even stated He HATES the actions of the Nicolations. Are you suggesting there is no consequence for harming the little ones or being like the Nicolations?

What you are suggesting is that there is no consequences for any of your actions because all sins are already covered. David repented for his adultery with Bathsheba but he still lost his child and had a curse of the sword on his house because of his actions. Sin has consequences in both this life and eternally.

Have you asked and received forgiveness for every sin you have ever committed against your brethren? What is bound on earth is bound in heaven. The heaven books will be opened and your life will be judged. It may be written in the lamb's book of life but what else is written.

Justification pays the sin debt to the Father. You are not being judged by the Father but by Yeshua for how well you obeyed Him for covering those sins.

Yahu,

I wanted to thank you for your posts, regarding the Bema Seat of Christ,

I did not even know of this judgement till you brought it to light. I believe the Holy Spirit led this conversation between us, so that I might be made aware of the Bema Seat and the judgment that waits the believer.

I did look into this doctrine, and I can say that we will not be punished but we can miss out on some rewards.
 
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Thursday

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We go to heaven if we are saved and have the Holy Spirit, which is a seal for the believer. - Jesus said unless you are born again you cannot enter the kingdom of God.

As a believer, yes we can lose out on the Bema seat rewards, possibly

We go to heaven if we die in God's good grace.

Some conditions:

Matt 6:15
But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Matt 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

1 Cor 6
9Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
 
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Thursday

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The Holy Spirit will not indwell a non believer brother, the person whom the Holy Spirit indwells in a believer sealed in Christ

A person's beliefs alone don't get them to heaven. If you accept Jesus but then refuse to obey his commandments, you won't go to heaven.

A sealed letter can be opened. The bible is very clear about those things which will separate us from God.
 
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