Was Jesus nice to everyone?

timewerx said:

I simply pointed out that Jesus/God doesn't want some people saved.

What you said there is obviously one of them.




You also ended up with the same conclusion as I did that Jesus/God doesn't want some people saved.




Except that His anger in this case will very likely cause the one He's angry at to lose their salvation. That is a very big deal.
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If you looked at the verses i posted, every single situation, they had an opportunity to be saved and they rejected those opportunities. God wanted them to be saved, he gave them an opportunity and rejected it. They even saw the miracles and still rejected him.

37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him

I posted a good portion of the situation around the verse you posted about God not wanting them to saved. God gave them opportunities to be saved and they rejected those opportunities. God did want them to be saved. I mean they literally rejected so "many" miracles being performed. They walked and talked with the savior and still rejected him. They saw his divine nature, his miracles. Still rejected him. So God passed judgment on them for their unbelief and gave them over to their unbelief. It's not that God didnt want them to be saved.

timewerx said:

It's nice that you said it.

It supports the subject of this thread....If Jesus wanted to save everyone then He will give us a Bible that is easy to understand via plain speech with no teachings that say the opposite of another whatsoever.

Would you write an instruction manual for a critical or safety procedure where some of the instructions say the opposite of another on the same subject? That would be unwise if you wish to save everyone who reads it.

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First off: The Bible (especially the New Testament) is not some kind of “instruction manual”, but it is one very good tool for “Christians” to have to help them with their spiritual growth.

People have come to Christ by reading scripture, but that is not the way we have been taught and shown to evangelize the world.

The nonbeliever needs everything Christ offered to His disciples and more, so that is what they have today: Christ physically coming up alongside them Loving on them, listening to them, spending time with them, serving them, teaching them, showing Godly type Love in action in front of them, and becoming part of their lives. This is all done through Christ living in and through true Christians. They can thus have for themselves Christ’s Spirit living in them.

We need the Spirit to guide us.

timewerx said:

It's nice that you said it.

It supports the subject of this thread....If Jesus wanted to save everyone then He will give us a Bible that is easy to understand via plain speech with no teachings that say the opposite of another whatsoever.

Would you write an instruction manual for a critical or safety procedure where some of the instructions say the opposite of another on the same subject? That would be unwise if you wish to save everyone who reads it.

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From what you have said in this and previous posts, it is evident to me that you have probably spent time in some very bad churches. It is not that the bible contradicts itself; it is that those who don't understand it - which includes a great many (probably a majority) of pastors - twist it like a pretzel. So let me ask you, what kind of 'theology' did some of the churches you attend teach? I think you have been led astray.

timewerx said:

When some of the unbelieving Pharisees asked Christ for a sign, He did not grant their request.

Surely, if He did, some of them might believe and be saved. But He did not do it.

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The previous chapter to that the Samaritans believed w/o a sign but Jews needed more, do you think they would have believed if someone were raised from the dead?

timewerx said:

When some of the unbelieving Pharisees asked Christ for a sign, He did not grant their request.

Surely, if He did, some of them might believe and be saved. But He did not do it.

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They saw many miracles from Christ and heard of many miracles yet they still continued asking him for more. You're making assumptions that aren't scriptural at all and that's what we have to be careful with is assuming. These "pharisees" were full of sin. They were looking for a reason to accuse Christ.

Let me tell you what they did do when they saw the signs.

Instead of rejoicing over the healing of a man, they accused Christ of being in league with Satan. This is where Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit occurred. They saw his miracles and instead of believing, accused him of being of Satan.

Luke 11:14
One day Jesus was driving out a demon that was mute. And when the demon was gone, the man who had been mute spoke. The crowds were amazed,

Matthew Describes the same situation.

Matthew 9:34
But the Pharisees said, "It is by the prince of demons that He drives out demons."

So we see here that many Pharisees were seeing his miracles and still being unbelieving. Many of them accused him of being of Satan and not God when they saw his miracles, and instead of repenting, accused Christ. So it is false to assume because if he would have show them a miracle that would have lead to their salvation. They likely already saw a host of his miracles and still didnt believe. He says the only miracle promised will be his resurrection. That's all they needed to see.

timewerx said:

Then why did you said earlier that God gave them many opportunities to be saved?

Was it really intentional or they simply happened to be there? The Pharisees and Sadducee are everywhere in those times.

Remember what Christ said He only came for the lost sheep of Israel...Did those unbelieving Pharisees belong to the lost sheep?

John 10:26
but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.

John 8:47
Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

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Because the Pharisees were seeing his miracles. They were seeing people come from all over to be healed by him and to hear his teachings. Yet many were unbelieving and accused him of being in league with Satan. They had opportunities to be saved. They heard Christ's teachings, they saw his miracles, they heard of his miracles, they came from all over to see him. They had opportunities to listen. Scripture i've shown you showed you that they had opportunities. You hearing of the word of God, hearing of Christ's teachings is an opportunity in itself. The gospel is being revealed to you. So them simply hearing is a opportunity, them seeing Christ in the flesh was an opportunity, them simply talking to Christ was an opportunity.

Yes, the Pharisees were probably some of the most lost sheep of the lost sheep. According to Josephus, a Jewish historian in the time, there were about 6,000 Pharisees. They heard of Christ and came to accuse him. They heard of all the commotion. So they were there on purpose.


John 8:47
47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.


In John 8:41-47 God was pointing out the difference between children of satan and children of God. He was showing us how to discern those who are self righteous, who claim to be righteous, but aren't of God.

In John chapter 10 the jews, even a couple of months later, were still arguing with Jesus about what He was trying to teach them. Christ pointed out to them that they were not of His sheep and therefore weren't able to fully grasp his teachings. They were choosing to rebel. They were choosing not to believe. They were arguing with God in the flesh.

If you read further after John 10:26 he'll give you a description of his sheep. Those who choose to follow and listen.

The choice is always yours to reject Christ .. and if you reject Christ, God shows us, his sheep, the qualities that an unbeliever possess so we can discern unbelievers, self righteous men, false christians from his true sheep.

Ultimately he died for everyone of us, and prayed for his enemies before his death. Luke 23:34 "Then Jesus said,“Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”..."

timewerx said:

Actually, there are indeed people who are following and mourning for Christ at the cross who literally didn't know what they're doing (few verses prior).

And they are not His enemies.

Luke 23:27-29
A large number of people followed him, including women who mourned and wailed for him. 28 Jesus turned and said to them, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep for yourselves and for your children. 29 For the time will come when you will say, ‘Blessed are the childless women, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!’

Remember the unrepenting thief with Jesus and Jesus flatly ignored him.

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I assumed anyone reading what i had said already knew as much as they should, that there were people with Jesus, like his apostles, of-course they weren't out to kill him, this is common knowledge, everyone here should already know about Jesus's death. it should be common knowledge... now, there were those who wanted to Kill Jesus, these were the people or "Enemies" i was referring to, that he "prayed" for them.
John 8:44 "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out his desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, refusing to uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language,because he is a liar and the father of lies." I was referring to these people not those who wept for him like his mother marry for example, he wasn't praying for these people that were with him, but those who wanted him dead, those that were saying things such as Matthew 27:39-43 "And those who passed by heaped abuse on Him, shaking their heads, and saying, “You who are going to destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days, save Yourself! If You are the Son of God, come down from the cross!” Likewise, the chief priests, scribes, and elders mocked Him, saying,“He saved others, but He cannot save Himself. He is the King of Israel! Let Him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in Him. He trusts in God. Let God deliver Him now if He wants Him. For He said, ‘I am the Son of God.’"

Yeap, these people, they were the ones that didn't know what they were doing.

Here's an extra John 19:34 "Instead, one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water flowed out." If this was his friend or a follower of Jesus, why would they do this?, he certainly wasn't and he didn't know what he was doing and certainly if god had, he would have destroyed this person, therefore he was an "enemy" .

1 Corinthians 2:8
"No, we speak of the mysterious and hidden wisdom of God, which He destined for our glory before time began. None of the rulers of this age understood it. For if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."
Indeed they knew not who or what they were crucifying.

Yes, Jesus could be angry about how someone was wrong, especially about hypocrisy and how people could be conceited by picking and choosing who was good enough for them to love.

But Jesus would say things which could help those wrong people. And He was always able to do something creative . . . including also how He would say things to others, which could help them know how to understand and deal with wrong people.

But human anger can shut us down and out from caring about wrong people. We can be coming from conceit of looking down on others > "the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God" (in James 1:20).

This thread is quite long and so I havent been following as came in late.

But wish to raise a few points that OP might have missed.

JEsus could see into mens hearts. He had this supernatural ability because he was the Son of God basically. See John 2:25

Also the holy spirit is the discerner of the intents and purposes of the heart, we are actually naked before him.see Hebrews 4:12-13

It wasnt that Jesus was nice or not nice. He just knew the truth about what people were like. God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. HE has always been like this. That is just who He is.

As for christians it is not that we are nice or not nice either. If we are christlike the truth will shine in our hearts.

The bible never says anything about christians being 'nice'...but salty, gracious, kind, tenderhearted, forgiving.

I know people that are nice, but they can be like wolves in sheeps clothing. Sometimes 'nice' can be deceptive.

As for divisions well, i dont think christianity is really divided as people think. Yes there are different denoms...but many churches are just offshoots of a certain country and take on the lnaguage and customs of their parent church its not that they are not christians its just there is different emphaisis on parts of scriputre I suppose. People will fellowship with those who are likeminded.

Its like you have sheep in a pasture and they are all sheep just there are several flocks. To keep it manageable you would divide them into smaller flocks wouldnt you? If you are a shepherd. Eventually we will all be together and our superficial differences will fall away.