Should the book of James be removed from the Bible?

Should the book of James be removed from the Bible?

  • Yes! It should!

    Votes: 2 4.5%
  • No it shouldn't It's God inspired.

    Votes: 42 95.5%

  • Total voters
    44

Neostarwcc

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Now I know what many of you are going to say, you're going to say that I can't be nitpicky about the Bible and I can't pick and choose parts of the Bible that I like and ignore parts that I dislike and that James's words were God inspired. Normally, I'd agree with you but James's words were NOT God inspired and they go against the rest of the Bible. In fact, it was the Catholics who got the book of James added to the Bible in the first place to support their claims that Justification was by Faith + works. Now let me think... what else is part of the Catholic Bible and was removed because it taught Justification by works? Oh right! The Apocrypha! In case people don't know what the Apocrypha is, The Apocrypha used to be a part of the Bible until It's removal in 1881. It was removed because the Apocrypha didn't fit in with the rest of the Bible and because it taught Justification by works. Well, what does the book of James teach? That's right! Justification by works (James 2:21)! So why is it still a part of the bible? Why didn't the book of James get removed along with the Apocrypha?

The answer is simple. Because there are Christians today that say that James supported Pauls teachings that Justification was by Faith and that true saving faith would have works. Not only is this against what the Bible teaches it isn't what James was saying. Paul and James were two apostles that completely disagreed with each other. Paul claimed that Justification was by faith and James claimed that Justification was by works (Ephesians 2:9) (James 2:21-24). In James 2:21-24 James says

"Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

Yet Paul, Jesus, and just about every other apostle that lived during the time claimed that Justification was in fact, by faith only and not Faith + Works. In Romans 4 Paul teaches to the contrary that Abraham was justified apart from works, by his faith. In fact, the rest of the Bible claims that justification is by faith only. To say that true saving faith would result in works is not what James was saying and it is not what the bible says. The bible teaches that salvation is by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone (John 3:16), (John 6:40), (John 20:31), (Romans 10:9), (Luke 8:12), (John 1:12), (John 6:29), (John 8:24), (John 12:36), (Acts 16:31), (Romans 3:22), (Romans 4:24), (Romans 10:9), (Galatians 3:22),(1 John 5:13), (1 Thess 4:14). It does not teach that true saving faith would result in good works like people who try to make sense of the book of James claim.

It's true that I cannot pick the parts of the Bible that I like or dislike. But, when comparing things the ENTIRE Bible has to be compared to itself and not a single part of the book of James fits in with the rest of the Bible. So, do you agree or disagree with what I'm saying? Should the book of James be removed from the Bible or be kept in?
 
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Now I know what many of you are going to say, you're going to say that I can't be nitpicky about the Bible and I can't pick and choose parts of the Bible that I like and ignore parts that I dislike and that James's words were God inspired. Normally, I'd agree with you but James's words were NOT God inspired and they go against the rest of the Bible. In fact, it was the Catholics who got the book of James added to the Bible in the first place to support their claims that Justification was by Faith + works. Now let me think... what else is part of the Catholic Bible and was removed because it taught Justification by works? Oh right! The Apocrypha! In case people don't know what the Apocrypha is, The Apocrypha used to be a part of the Bible until It's removal in 1881. It was removed because the Apocrypha didn't fit in with the rest of the Bible and because it taught Justification by works. Well, what does the book of James teach? That's right! Justification by works (James 2:21)! So why is it still a part of the bible? Why didn't the book of James get removed along with the Apocrypha?

The answer is simple. Because there are Christians today that say that James supported Pauls teachings that Justification was by Faith and that true saving faith would have works. Not only is this against what the Bible teaches it isn't what James was saying. Paul and James were two apostles that completely disagreed with each other. Paul claimed that Justification was by faith and James claimed that Justification was by works (Ephesians 2:9) (James 2:21-24). In James 2:21-24 James says

"Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

Yet Paul, Jesus, and just about every other apostle that lived during the time claimed that Justification was in fact, by faith only and not Faith + Works. In Romans 4 Paul teaches to the contrary that Abraham was justified apart from works, by his faith. In fact, the rest of the Bible claims that justification is by faith only. To say that true saving faith would result in works is not what James was saying and it is not what the bible says. The bible teaches that salvation is by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone (John 3:16), (John 6:40), (John 20:31), (Romans 10:9), (Luke 8:12), (John 1:12), (John 6:29), (John 8:24), (John 12:36), (Acts 16:31), (Romans 3:22), (Romans 4:24), (Romans 10:9), (Galatians 3:22),(1 John 5:13), (1 Thess 4:14). It does not teach that true saving faith would result in good works like people who try to make sense of the book of James claim.

It's true that I cannot pick the parts of the Bible that I like or dislike. But, when comparing things the ENTIRE Bible has to be compared to itself and not a single part of the book of James fits in with the rest of the Bible. So, do you agree or disagree with what I'm saying? Should the book of James be removed from the Bible or be kept in?


Maybe it is your beliefs that are the problem and not the teachings of James.
 
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Greg J.

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James's words were NOT God inspired and they go against the rest of the Bible.
It was included because it was consistent with the rest of the Bible. You need to read James 2 as a passage where James is trying to describe the qualities of two kinds of faith: faith (that saves) and dead faith (that does not save). He does not teach that works are needed for salvation.
In fact, it was the Catholics who got the book of James added to the Bible in the first place
I don't think there were protestants at that time. That is, everyone was Catholic, so blaming Catholics is no different than blaming protestants. Presumably you have a problem with certain opinions.
 
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It was included because it was consistent with the rest of the Bible. You need to read James 2 as a passage where James is trying to describe the qualities of two kinds of faith: faith (that saves) and dead faith (that does not save). He does not teach that works are needed for salvation.

Jesus did.
 
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Chriliman

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Now I know what many of you are going to say, you're going to say that I can't be nitpicky about the Bible and I can't pick and choose parts of the Bible that I like and ignore parts that I dislike and that James's words were God inspired. Normally, I'd agree with you but James's words were NOT God inspired and they go against the rest of the Bible. In fact, it was the Catholics who got the book of James added to the Bible in the first place to support their claims that Justification was by Faith + works. Now let me think... what else is part of the Catholic Bible and was removed because it taught Justification by works? Oh right! The Apocrypha! In case people don't know what the Apocrypha is, The Apocrypha used to be a part of the Bible until It's removal in 1881. It was removed because the Apocrypha didn't fit in with the rest of the Bible and because it taught Justification by works. Well, what does the book of James teach? That's right! Justification by works (James 2:21)! So why is it still a part of the bible? Why didn't the book of James get removed along with the Apocrypha?

The answer is simple. Because there are Christians today that say that James supported Pauls teachings that Justification was by Faith and that true saving faith would have works. Not only is this against what the Bible teaches it isn't what James was saying. Paul and James were two apostles that completely disagreed with each other. Paul claimed that Justification was by faith and James claimed that Justification was by works (Ephesians 2:9) (James 2:21-24). In James 2:21-24 James says

"Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

Yet Paul, Jesus, and just about every other apostle that lived during the time claimed that Justification was in fact, by faith only and not Faith + Works. In Romans 4 Paul teaches to the contrary that Abraham was justified apart from works, by his faith. In fact, the rest of the Bible claims that justification is by faith only. To say that true saving faith would result in works is not what James was saying and it is not what the bible says. The bible teaches that salvation is by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone (John 3:16), (John 6:40), (John 20:31), (Romans 10:9), (Luke 8:12), (John 1:12), (John 6:29), (John 8:24), (John 12:36), (Acts 16:31), (Romans 3:22), (Romans 4:24), (Romans 10:9), (Galatians 3:22),(1 John 5:13), (1 Thess 4:14). It does not teach that true saving faith would result in good works like people who try to make sense of the book of James claim.

It's true that I cannot pick the parts of the Bible that I like or dislike. But, when comparing things the ENTIRE Bible has to be compared to itself and not a single part of the book of James fits in with the rest of the Bible. So, do you agree or disagree with what I'm saying? Should the book of James be removed from the Bible or be kept in?

James teaches that works add to and build up faith. Yes, faith justifies, but works also justify because they are done through faith.

You may be making this more complicated than it needs to be.

James 2:18-22
"But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?"

Faith without works is like a man who has eyes but never opens his eye lids to use them. The eyes may as well be dead if he's not going to use them. Faith and works go together to fulfill God's will in any given person's life.
 
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Dave-W

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Methinks the OP is a modern Marcionist. It is a very lopsided view of the bible and God's truth.
I don't think there were protestants at that time. That is, everyone was Catholic
Actually, there were no catholics either. Everyone was Eastern Orthodox. The cannon including James was nailed down in the 300s and Rome did not break fellowship with the Orthodox until about 1000 ad.

Side note: I found it interesting that ALL of the disputed books of the NT were epistles addressed to Jews instead of gentiles.
 
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Greg J.

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In my first post I should have added that it is my experience that there are no contradictions about God in the Bible, except that I couldn't explain one apparent contradiction of events (I don't remember what). This is different than agreeing with the idea that the Bible has no contradictions (because of the belief that God does not contradict himself).
 
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Disciple37

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Now I know what many of you are going to say, you're going to say that I can't be nitpicky about the Bible and I can't pick and choose parts of the Bible that I like and ignore parts that I dislike and that James's words were God inspired. Normally, I'd agree with you but James's words were NOT God inspired and they go against the rest of the Bible. In fact, it was the Catholics who got the book of James added to the Bible in the first place to support their claims that Justification was by Faith + works. Now let me think... what else is part of the Catholic Bible and was removed because it taught Justification by works? Oh right! The Apocrypha! In case people don't know what the Apocrypha is, The Apocrypha used to be a part of the Bible until It's removal in 1881. It was removed because the Apocrypha didn't fit in with the rest of the Bible and because it taught Justification by works. Well, what does the book of James teach? That's right! Justification by works (James 2:21)! So why is it still a part of the bible? Why didn't the book of James get removed along with the Apocrypha?

The answer is simple. Because there are Christians today that say that James supported Pauls teachings that Justification was by Faith and that true saving faith would have works. Not only is this against what the Bible teaches it isn't what James was saying. Paul and James were two apostles that completely disagreed with each other. Paul claimed that Justification was by faith and James claimed that Justification was by works (Ephesians 2:9) (James 2:21-24). In James 2:21-24 James says

"Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

Yet Paul, Jesus, and just about every other apostle that lived during the time claimed that Justification was in fact, by faith only and not Faith + Works. In Romans 4 Paul teaches to the contrary that Abraham was justified apart from works, by his faith. In fact, the rest of the Bible claims that justification is by faith only. To say that true saving faith would result in works is not what James was saying and it is not what the bible says. The bible teaches that salvation is by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone (John 3:16), (John 6:40), (John 20:31), (Romans 10:9), (Luke 8:12), (John 1:12), (John 6:29), (John 8:24), (John 12:36), (Acts 16:31), (Romans 3:22), (Romans 4:24), (Romans 10:9), (Galatians 3:22),(1 John 5:13), (1 Thess 4:14). It does not teach that true saving faith would result in good works like people who try to make sense of the book of James claim.

It's true that I cannot pick the parts of the Bible that I like or dislike. But, when comparing things the ENTIRE Bible has to be compared to itself and not a single part of the book of James fits in with the rest of the Bible. So, do you agree or disagree with what I'm saying? Should the book of James be removed from the Bible or be kept in?

The book of James is inspired by God?? How could you believe it is not? If God cannot give you a book to read, why would you believe in God? If God blessed the KJV to spread the gospel, not that I don't mind more modern interpretations (some of them), you can trust in the KJV to deliver the message. Billions upon billions of copies have been printed with the book of James in it. Remember, the book of James had to meet a criteria to be entered into the Bible.

All James really is is to give encouragement to Christians going through trials. There's no better test to show a Christian's maturity than in the face of discomfort, when things aren't going right the way.

The book of James compliments Paul's teachings by the way. Galatians even confirms James as one of the "pillars" of the early church. James is one of the oldest text in the Bible if I remember correctly. I haven't studied James in a while, however, James is most certainly God inspired. If God cannot give you book you throw in doubt your entire belief system and that's what Satan wants you to do. Doubt your foundation.
 
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Tree of Life

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No.

Paul was wrestling with legalists. James was dealing with gnostics.

Gnostics did not exist during James' time. He wrote his letter roughly around 44AD. The gnostic problem didn't really become an issue until the end of the first century.

Furthermore James was writing to synagogues outside of Palestine, so he was writing to Jewish Christians.

James, however, was dealing with different questions than Paul was.

Per the OP, James' use of the word "justification" is different from Paul's use of the word. When Paul says that someone is "justified by faith apart from works of the Law" he is talking about being declared righteous before God. When James says that a person is "justified by works of the Law" he is talking about the works publicly demonstrating that the faith is real. One sense is before God, the other sense is before men.

So our faith is justified by our works, according to James. But according to Paul our persons are justified by God through our faith in Christ.
 
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JackRT

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You can thank the Catholics for the ENTIRE Bible, not just the Book of James.

(and the Orthodox too, it was a unified Church at the time)

Until Constantine the early church was well and truly ununified.
 
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brinny

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Now I know what many of you are going to say, you're going to say that I can't be nitpicky about the Bible and I can't pick and choose parts of the Bible that I like and ignore parts that I dislike and that James's words were God inspired. Normally, I'd agree with you but James's words were NOT God inspired and they go against the rest of the Bible. In fact, it was the Catholics who got the book of James added to the Bible in the first place to support their claims that Justification was by Faith + works. Now let me think... what else is part of the Catholic Bible and was removed because it taught Justification by works? Oh right! The Apocrypha! In case people don't know what the Apocrypha is, The Apocrypha used to be a part of the Bible until It's removal in 1881. It was removed because the Apocrypha didn't fit in with the rest of the Bible and because it taught Justification by works. Well, what does the book of James teach? That's right! Justification by works (James 2:21)! So why is it still a part of the bible? Why didn't the book of James get removed along with the Apocrypha?

The answer is simple. Because there are Christians today that say that James supported Pauls teachings that Justification was by Faith and that true saving faith would have works. Not only is this against what the Bible teaches it isn't what James was saying. Paul and James were two apostles that completely disagreed with each other. Paul claimed that Justification was by faith and James claimed that Justification was by works (Ephesians 2:9) (James 2:21-24). In James 2:21-24 James says

"Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

Yet Paul, Jesus, and just about every other apostle that lived during the time claimed that Justification was in fact, by faith only and not Faith + Works. In Romans 4 Paul teaches to the contrary that Abraham was justified apart from works, by his faith. In fact, the rest of the Bible claims that justification is by faith only. To say that true saving faith would result in works is not what James was saying and it is not what the bible says. The bible teaches that salvation is by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone (John 3:16), (John 6:40), (John 20:31), (Romans 10:9), (Luke 8:12), (John 1:12), (John 6:29), (John 8:24), (John 12:36), (Acts 16:31), (Romans 3:22), (Romans 4:24), (Romans 10:9), (Galatians 3:22),(1 John 5:13), (1 Thess 4:14). It does not teach that true saving faith would result in good works like people who try to make sense of the book of James claim.

It's true that I cannot pick the parts of the Bible that I like or dislike. But, when comparing things the ENTIRE Bible has to be compared to itself and not a single part of the book of James fits in with the rest of the Bible. So, do you agree or disagree with what I'm saying? Should the book of James be removed from the Bible or be kept in?

Hmmmmm...that point James makes about what you are referring to as "works" is directly in line with not only what is written in the book of Isaiah, when God is quite clear about what is precious to Him, but also in line with Jesus' demonstration of compassion, compelled by a heart that "responds" to suffering, and "alleviates" it.

Jesus "demonstrated" what is written in the book of James.

We are admonished to do the same.

Thank you kindly.
 
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Widlast

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Until Constantine the early church was well and truly ununified.
That is not even remotely accurate. The various churches in existence all shared common doctrine and communicated amongst each other.
The letters of the church Fathers point to this.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Now I know what many of you are going to say, you're going to say that I can't be nitpicky about the Bible and I can't pick and choose parts of the Bible that I like and ignore parts that I dislike and that James's words were God inspired. Normally, I'd agree with you but James's words were NOT God inspired and they go against the rest of the Bible. In fact, it was the Catholics who got the book of James added to the Bible in the first place to support their claims that Justification was by Faith + works. Now let me think... what else is part of the Catholic Bible and was removed because it taught Justification by works? Oh right! The Apocrypha! In case people don't know what the Apocrypha is, The Apocrypha used to be a part of the Bible until It's removal in 1881. It was removed because the Apocrypha didn't fit in with the rest of the Bible and because it taught Justification by works. Well, what does the book of James teach? That's right! Justification by works (James 2:21)! So why is it still a part of the bible? Why didn't the book of James get removed along with the Apocrypha?

The answer is simple. Because there are Christians today that say that James supported Pauls teachings that Justification was by Faith and that true saving faith would have works. Not only is this against what the Bible teaches it isn't what James was saying. Paul and James were two apostles that completely disagreed with each other. Paul claimed that Justification was by faith and James claimed that Justification was by works (Ephesians 2:9) (James 2:21-24). In James 2:21-24 James says

"Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

Yet Paul, Jesus, and just about every other apostle that lived during the time claimed that Justification was in fact, by faith only and not Faith + Works. In Romans 4 Paul teaches to the contrary that Abraham was justified apart from works, by his faith. In fact, the rest of the Bible claims that justification is by faith only. To say that true saving faith would result in works is not what James was saying and it is not what the bible says. The bible teaches that salvation is by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone (John 3:16), (John 6:40), (John 20:31), (Romans 10:9), (Luke 8:12), (John 1:12), (John 6:29), (John 8:24), (John 12:36), (Acts 16:31), (Romans 3:22), (Romans 4:24), (Romans 10:9), (Galatians 3:22),(1 John 5:13), (1 Thess 4:14). It does not teach that true saving faith would result in good works like people who try to make sense of the book of James claim.

It's true that I cannot pick the parts of the Bible that I like or dislike. But, when comparing things the ENTIRE Bible has to be compared to itself and not a single part of the book of James fits in with the rest of the Bible. So, do you agree or disagree with what I'm saying? Should the book of James be removed from the Bible or be kept in?

The catch here is to realize that the context and usage of the concept of "works" is not being used in an equivalent manner between Paul and James. When Paul uses the term, he is explaining to Gentiles that they are not justified by "works of the Mosaic Law"; however, Paul makes it clear that Christians have to live their lives of faith with holiness and beneficent acts for others.

When James uses the term, he is referencing "works" as an expression of Pre-Mosaic faith. In other words, James is using the term as an expression of obedience to God and to acts of faith involving beneficence. Interestingly enough, both Paul and James reference Abraham as an example, and he just happens to fit both these respective angles on faith.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid
 
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If I am not mistaken, the book of James was written to Jews (Christians) that were misinterpreting Paul's teaching regarding "faith". These Jews were believing that not only were they free from the old law, but free from all secular laws, all laws of morality, and legalism. That they could do whatever they want and not obey those appointed over them by God.

So the context of James writing is saying, if you're truly saved, you'll bare some kind of fruit. You'll do some kind of good. Not that you'll be saved through works, but that if you're saved you'll give off some kind of good fruit out of love for Christ.
 
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JackRT

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Gnostics did not exist during James' time. He wrote his letter roughly around 44AD.

According to John Dominic Crossan, The Historical Jesus (HarperCollins, 1991) Appendix 1, pp. 427-50 the Epistle of James dates to the end of the first century.
 
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Tree of Life

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According to John Dominic Crossan, The Historical Jesus (HarperCollins, 1991) Appendix 1, pp. 427-50 the Epistle of James dates to the end of the first century.

Yes he's a very liberal scholar and many liberal scholars would give James a late date due to a few assumptions:
  1. James is pseudonymous and could not have been written by James the brother of Jesus.
  2. James is explicitly contradicting Paul's writings (so it would have had to be written late - enough time for Paul's writings to circulate).
However, conservative scholars and middle-of-the-road scholars don't share these assumptions and there are many good reasons to date this book early:
  1. According to tradition and also the book of Acts James, the Lord's brother, was the pastor in Jerusalem - this fits with James letter as it is written to Jews "in the dispersion" (outside Palestine). So James' letter could likely be coming from Jerusalem to Jewish synagogues outside of Palestine.
  2. James uses language that would fit with an early date. He calls the Christian assembly a "synagogue". This would indicate that the letter was written before there was a definitive split between the Jewish synagogue and Christian church - certainly before 70AD.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Gnostics did not exist during James' time. He wrote his letter roughly around 44AD. The gnostic problem didn't really become an issue until the end of the first century.

Furthermore James was writing to synagogues outside of Palestine, so he was writing to Jewish Christians.

James, however, was dealing with different questions than Paul was.

Per the OP, James' use of the word "justification" is different from Paul's use of the word. When Paul says that someone is "justified by faith apart from works of the Law" he is talking about being declared righteous before God. When James says that a person is "justified by works of the Law" he is talking about the works publicly demonstrating that the faith is real. One sense is before God, the other sense is before men.

So our faith is justified by our works, according to James. But according to Paul our persons are justified by God through our faith in Christ.

Yes. I'm sorry. I was thinking of 1 John. My bad.
 
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