A Very Valid Point

stuart lawrence · Dec 16, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
So, do you beleive that our brethren in the RC church don't have the Spirit written on their heart?

You are trying your best aren't you to get out of an impossible situation.
They don't believe Mary is dead. They believe she is in Heaven.
Which of the 613 OT laws would they be breaking by asking someone in heaven to intercede for them?
It doesn't matter what you come up with. What is written on your mind you must in your mind know.
What is placed on your heart you MUST have heartfelt conviction you sin when you go against it. We know the law on stone you are required to obey is written on your mind and placed on your heart. It states that in the bible.
However, on websites such as these people will go to any lengths to defend an impossible position, you are not the only one by any means

EastCoastRemnant · Dec 16, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
You are trying your best aren't you to get out of an impossible situation.
They don't believe Mary is dead. They believe she is in Heaven.
Which of the 613 OT laws would they be breaking by asking someone in heaven to intercede for them?
It doesn't matter what you come up with. What is written on your mind you must in your mind know.
What is placed on your heart you MUST have heartfelt conviction you sin when you go against it. We know the law on stone you are required to obey is written on your mind and placed on your heart. It states that in the bible.
However, on websites such as these people will go to any lengths to defend an impossible position, you are not the only one by any means

So, you not only believe the 4th Commandment to not be in effect, you are now excusing away the 1st and 2nd for our brethren in the RCC. Any more you would like to trample?

stuart lawrence · Dec 16, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
So, you not only believe the 4th Commandment to not be in effect, you are now excusing away the 1st and 2nd for our brethren in the RCC. Any more you would like to trample?

It never ceases to amaze me the lengths people will go to, to try and justify incorrect doctrine in order to cling to their particular churches beliefs when they are shown to be in error.
A good example of the futility of websites such as these where anything meaningful is concerned.

stuart lawrence · Dec 16, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
So, you not only believe the 4th Commandment to not be in effect, you are now excusing away the 1st and 2nd for our brethren in the RCC. Any more you would like to trample?

My friend I can assure you, if you were a Spirit filled Christian you would never make the demands you do concerning a set seventh day Sabbath.
And Every time you relentlessly state if you fail to observe the law you are condemned, you trample on the reason Christ died in agony at Calvary, but you will never see it.
I could ask you to relate to me what your born again experience was, what impact it had on your life, but I see no point in continuing this as you will go to any lengths to try and justify incorrect doctrine.
BTW
You don't have to be Spirit filled to be a Christian, so please don't think I am accusing you of things I am not

stuart lawrence · Dec 16, 2016

Of course all christians at times fail to keep the first and second commandments, for we all at times fail to love God with all our heart, body, soul mind and strength. And we all at times build graven images in our minds, they don't have to be physically built statues. And if the law us written on your mind and placed on your heart you know that to be true and are conscious of it.
The bible doesn't refer to the law written on stone as the letter that kills and the ministry of death and condemnation for nothing. Those laws condemn everyone who lives under them for righteousness, as everyone who has those laws written on their mind and placed on their heart must know.
To reel off pat you must obey the TC( to attain heaven) is at best making statements without understanding what obedience to those laws entail. At worst?

Jesus said the yeast of the Pharisees was hypocrisy. They liked to give the impression they fully obeyed the law as they insisted to others they do the same. Yet we know from Jesus words they did not practice what they preached. On the inside( the law only God need know they broke) they were full of wickedness, hypocrisy and everything unclean

EastCoastRemnant · Dec 16, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
And Every time you relentlessly state if you fail to observe the law you are condemned, you trample on the reason Christ died in agony at Calvary, but you will never see it.

If you fail to obey the 7th Commandment, are you condemned, yes or no? Will it matter that Christ died for your sins if you do not repent of them?

stuart lawrence · Dec 16, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
If you fail to obey the 7th Commandment, are you condemned, yes or no? Will it matter that Christ died for your sins if you do not repent of them?

Why did Paul state not preaching law is the offence of the cross?

Not having a righteousness of my own That comes from the law.... Phil3:9

People like to boast in their flesh. They like to believe, and impress to others they have attained heaven by what they have striven for and achieved. In fact, they delight in seeing imperfections I others for it makes them feel more justified in their own life, more confident they will attain heaven as they don't believe the have the particular faults others do.
The idea you attain heaven because of what Christ did for you, rather than what you yourself attain to is offensive to them.
That is why they always bring righteousness back to the law for without a law of righteousness there can be no boasting of self.

Now if you want me to answer your question, firstly tell me of your born again experience. What impact did it have on your life. Explain That experience to me

EastCoastRemnant · Dec 16, 2016

If you fail to obey the 7th Commandment, are you condemned, yes or no? Will it matter that Christ died for your sins if you do not repent of them?

stuart lawrence · Dec 16, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
If you fail to obey the 7th Commandment, are you condemned, yes or no? Will it matter that Christ died for your sins if you do not repent of them?

As I said. Explain your born again experience to me and I will respond to your question

EastCoastRemnant · Dec 16, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
As I said. Explain your born again experience to me and I will respond to your question

My personal anything does not factor into this discussion of what God's Word says... if you can't answer the question then just say so instead of making it some game of "but first you must do this for me".

stuart lawrence · Dec 16, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
My personal anything does not factor into this discussion of what God's Word says... if you can't answer the question then just say so instead of making it some game of "but first you must do this for me".

I didn't think you could explain to me what born again entails.
Go back to my post concerning when, I was aged ten to fifteen. I continually broke the tenth commandment/ acting out lust and how that was overcome a few years later

EastCoastRemnant · Dec 16, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
I didn't think you could explain to me what born again entails.
Go back to my post concerning when, I was aged ten to fifteen. I continually broke the tenth commandment/ acting out lust and how that was overcome a few years later

Don't care about your dirty laundry... thats between you and God.

If you fail to obey the 7th Commandment, are you condemned, yes or no? Will it matter that Christ died for your sins if you do not repent of them?

stuart lawrence · Dec 16, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
Don't care about your dirty laundry... thats between you and God.

If you fail to obey the 7th Commandment, are you condemned, yes or no? Will it matter that Christ died for your sins if you do not repent of them?

Why aren't you quoting Jesus words concerning the seventh commandment? Why try and water it down?

If you even look at a woman with lust in your eye you have already committed adultery with her in your heart.

stuart lawrence · Dec 16, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
Don't care about your dirty laundry... thats between you and God.

If you fail to obey the 7th Commandment, are you condemned, yes or no? Will it matter that Christ died for your sins if you do not repent of them?

I think what you mean is. You don't care about the true way to see victory over sin!

stuart lawrence · Dec 16, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
Don't care about your dirty laundry... thats between you and God.

If you fail to obey the 7th Commandment, are you condemned, yes or no? Will it matter that Christ died for your sins if you do not repent of them?

The new covenant comes in two parts. You cant explain the first part to me and reject the second part

I will write my laws in their minds and place them on their hearts
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more.

You only get the second part as the first has taken place.

You are supernaturally born again of the holy spirit at conversion. He enters your life and writes the law on your mind God desires you to keep and places it on your heart. You in your mind instinctively know how God wants you to live and in your heart you want to obey. Through this law placed within you, you have heartfelt conviction of your sin. You no longer live according to your own particular Moral compass, doing what you want, you seek to live a life according to what God desires. In this sense you have been born again of the Spirit.
For anyone truly born again they cannot hide from the law placed in their most inward parts. They understand what that law demands. Without in their hearts accepting the second part of the covenant they will be crushed and sink for they cannot attain to the standard that law sets. If they could Jesus need not have died at Calvary:
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more is the same as saying:
Their transgressions of the law I will remember no more.
No licence to sin, for the christian has the law intact in their heart. They in their heart want to obey God
Jesus said to nicodemus:
Ye MUST be born again.
It is not an option, it I pivotal. Jesus can only be your saviour from sin/ transgression of the law if you have been born again, for he will be no ones saviour from sin unless they in their heart want to live as his father desires them to

stuart lawrence · Dec 16, 2016

Satan is desperate for people who go to church to live under a law of righteousness, for he knows Paul spoke the truth when he stated:
The power of sin is the law( of righteousness) 1 cor15:56

Satan obviously does not want sins true power removed from the believer. He appears to have a lot of willing helpers, people who are eager, to in reality stress a law of righteousness:
Obey the law or stand condemned

tucker58 · Dec 17, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
The new covenant comes in two parts. You cant explain the first part to me and reject the second part

I will write my laws in their minds and place them on their hearts
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more.

You only get the second part as the first has taken place.

You are supernaturally born again of the holy spirit at conversion. He enters your life and writes the law on your mind God desires you to keep and places it on your heart. You in your mind instinctively know how God wants you to live and in your heart you want to obey. Through this law placed within you, you have heartfelt conviction of your sin. You no longer live according to your own particular Moral compass, doing what you want, you seek to live a life according to what God desires. In this sense you have been born again of the Spirit.
For anyone truly born again they cannot hide from the law placed in their most inward parts. They understand what that law demands. Without in their hearts accepting the second part of the covenant they will be crushed and sink for they cannot attain to the standard that law sets. If they could Jesus need not have died at Calvary:
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more is the same as saying:
Their transgressions of the law I will remember no more.
No licence to sin, for the christian has the law intact in their heart. They in their heart want to obey God
Jesus said to nicodemus:
Ye MUST be born again.
It is not an option, it I pivotal. Jesus can only be your saviour from sin/ transgression of the law if you have been born again, for he will be no ones saviour from sin unless they in their heart want to live as his father desires them to

Well, what you have said here is pretty cute

. Basically what you are saying is that 98% of all Christians should pack it up and go do something else. Because

they do not meet the minimal requirements for coming in under the salvation of our Lord Jesus. "You must be born of/cleansed by both the Water and the Spirit." But then the loop hole is, "unless they in their heart "want" to live as His Father desires them to." When you add the simple word "want" as the primary requirement to being born again, then most Christians now come under the salvation of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus. The salvation of Lord Jesus is as you said, "Not a license to sin." But at the same time, a born again Christian might still sin even though in their heart they do not want to. So they still come under the salvation of Lord Jesus. As long as they do not sin against the Holy Spirit of course.

stuart lawrence · Dec 17, 2016

tucker58 said:
Well, what you have said here is pretty cute . Basically what you are saying is that 98% of all Christians should pack it up and go do something else. Because they do not meet the minimal requirements for coming in under the salvation of our Lord Jesus. "You must be born of/cleansed by both the Water and the Spirit." But then the loop hole is, "unless they in their heart "want" to live as His Father desires them to." When you add the simple word "want" as the primary requirement to being born again, then most Christians now come under the salvation of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus. The salvation of Lord Jesus is as you said, "Not a license to sin." But at the same time, a born again Christian might still sin even though in their heart they do not want to. So they still come under the salvation of Lord Jesus. As long as they do not sin against the Holy Spirit of course.

Not wanting to sin in your heart does not mean you never will commit sin.
The christians flesh hasn't been born again. Hence the eternal battle of spirit against flesh. Gal5:16&17

tucker58 · Dec 18, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
Not wanting to sin in your heart does not mean you never will commit sin.
The christians flesh hasn't been born again. Hence the eternal battle of spirit against flesh. Gal5:16&17

Humm

?

stuart lawrence said:
Satan is desperate for people who go to church to live under a law of righteousness, for he knows Paul spoke the truth when he stated:
The power of sin is the law( of righteousness) 1 cor15:56

Satan obviously does not want sins true power removed from the believer. He appears to have a lot of willing helpers, people who are eager, to in reality stress a law of righteousness:
Obey the law or stand condemned

And again Humm

?

What Satan wants, what Jesus wants, and what Christians want? Lets try it this way, Satan wants us to abandon God the Father and hope; Jesus wants us to "not" abandon the Father and hope; and Christians want to feel safe because of a relationship with God the Father that is made possible through Christ Jesus. Which then brings us back to, "Hence the eternal battle of spirit against flesh." And, "The Christians flesh hasn't been born again." And, The judgement of Christians on others that are not like them (Christian or otherwise) in their beliefs (Obey the Law or stand condemned).

Christians want to feel safe because of their relationship with the Father (The All Powerful) that is made possible through Christ Jesus. You are saying Stuart Lawrence that Satan says that you can not feel safe because you can not obey the Law and you can not do this because you have not actually been born again of the Holy Spirit. Because if you had been, then obeying the Law would be written in your heart and you would no longer be of this world and no longer sin. Satan wants us to abandon the Father and hope and your argument Stuart Lawrence seems to be creating a reality that is moving things in that direction.

...and again Humm

? Well Stuart Lawrence, as person who is attempting to present an anti thesis to what seems to be your thesis, this scripture, Luke 23:34, comes to mind: "But Jesus was saying,Father, forgive them; for they know not what they are doing." As a Christian this scripture draws me toward the Father and it gives me hope. Why does it give me hope? Because if I have not been born again, then I am in a state of ignorance and I know not what I am doing. I haven't been truly baptized by the Holy Spirit, but I am still a Christian and I am drawn to the Father and hope because of Christ Jesus. And, in my heart I do not want or wish to sin. Over the years the Father, Christ Jesus, and that which is in my heart has created a reality where I do not sin hardly at all anymore.

What is my point? My point is that one not need to give up hope and abandon the Father because, over time one can grow into a non sinning reality through the Father, Christ Jesus, and the desire to do so that is in their heart. Yes things are not instantaneus as with the Holy Spirit, but it can be done as a Christian over time even if the Holy Spirit is a little late about showing up

. And the prayer of Christ Jesus (Luke 23:34) to the Father gives us as Christians that time to grow toward change without the fear of being condemned by the Father. And it also gives us time to become more prepared, relative to knowledge and understanding, for the changing event that is the Holy Spirit.

stuart lawrence · Dec 18, 2016

tucker58 said:
Humm ?

And again Humm ?

What Satan wants, what Jesus wants, and what Christians want? Lets try it this way, Satan wants us to abandon God the Father and hope; Jesus wants us to "not" abandon the Father and hope; and Christians want to feel safe because of a relationship with God the Father that is made possible through Christ Jesus. Which then brings us back to, "Hence the eternal battle of spirit against flesh." And, "The Christians flesh hasn't been born again." And, The judgement of Christians on others that are not like them (Christian or otherwise) in their beliefs (Obey the Law or stand condemned).

Christians want to feel safe because of their relationship with the Father (The All Powerful) that is made possible through Christ Jesus. You are saying Stuart Lawrence that Satan says that you can not feel safe because you can not obey the Law and you can not do this because you have not actually been born again of the Holy Spirit. Because if you had been, then obeying the Law would be written in your heart and you would no longer be of this world and no longer sin. Satan wants us to abandon the Father and hope and your argument Stuart Lawrence seems to be creating a reality that is moving things in that direction.

...and again Humm ? Well Stuart Lawrence, as person who is attempting to present an anti thesis to what seems to be your thesis, this scripture, Luke 23:34, comes to mind: "But Jesus was saying,Father, forgive them; for they know not what they are doing." As a Christian this scripture draws me toward the Father and it gives me hope. Why does it give me hope? Because if I have not been born again, then I am in a state of ignorance and I know not what I am doing. I haven't been truly baptized by the Holy Spirit, but I am still a Christian and I am drawn to the Father and hope because of Christ Jesus. And, in my heart I do not want or wish to sin. Over the years the Father, Christ Jesus, and that which is in my heart has created a reality where I do not sin hardly at all anymore.

What is my point? My point is that one not need to give up hope and abandon the Father because, over time one can grow into a non sinning reality through the Father, Christ Jesus, and the desire to do so that is in their heart. Yes things are not instantaneus as with the Holy Spirit, but it can be done as a Christian over time even if the Holy Spirit is a little late about showing up . And the prayer of Christ Jesus (Luke 23:34) to the Father gives us as Christians that time to grow toward change without the fear of being condemned by the Father. And it also gives us time to become more prepared, relative to knowledge and understanding, for the changing event that is the Holy Spirit.

As from your post, I see you have not understood what I have written, respectfully I will not respond to your post, and most likely cause you further misunderstanding of my POV
God bless

A Very Valid Point

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