John 14:15,16 compared with Galatians 3:2

klutedavid

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I don't think that is the case.

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”…
Hello Timewerx.

It does not matter what you or I think, any idea we have is irrelevant. The scripture is very clear that the law was given to the nation of Israel. The covenant law was never given to the Gentile nations.

The Gentile nations were never, ever, in a covenant to obey the words of the old covenant. Everyone is wrong if they think that, the Gentiles were ever in a covenant with God to obey the words of the old covenant.

The commands of Jesus were above the old covenant words.

Jesus is not commanding Gentiles to place themselves under the old covenant law. This is a profound error, heresy by any measure.

Jesus not only fulfilled the law, Jesus surpassed all and fulfilled all things.

Jesus introduced a new covenant, not a modified old covenant.

I am not having a go at you, Timewerx.

The scripture is very clear on who was under the law, and who was not under the law. The problem is that most are incorrectly taught on this point, people teach that Gentiles should obey the words of the old covenant.

This is a fatal mistake, an alternate Gospel. Paul would have a heart attack, if he knew that Gentiles were being placed under the law.
 
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timewerx

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Hello Timewerx.

It does not matter what you or I think, any idea we have is irrelevant. The scripture is very clear that the law was given to the nation of Israel. The covenant law was never given to the Gentile nations.

The Gentile nations were never, ever, in a covenant to obey the words of the old covenant. Everyone is wrong if they think that, the Gentiles were ever in a covenant with God to obey the words of the old covenant.

The commands of Jesus were above the old covenant words.

Jesus is not commanding Gentiles to place themselves under the old covenant law. This is a profound error, heresy by any measure.

Jesus not only fulfilled the law, Jesus surpassed all and fulfilled all things.

Jesus introduced a new covenant, not a modified old covenant.

I am not having a go at you, Timewerx.

The scripture is very clear on who was under the law, and who was not under the law. The problem is that most are incorrectly taught on this point, people teach that Gentiles should obey the words of the old covenant.

This is a fatal mistake, an alternate Gospel. Paul would have a heart attack, if he knew that Gentiles were being placed under the law.

James made a mistake by using his own judgement (not consulting the Spirit) and not even thinking about it carefully. He let other things take higher priority than the Truth which is a fatal mistake:

Acts 15:19
It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

Peter's mistake was not acting as the leader of the disciples as Jesus asked Him to do, instead, allowing James to take leadership in the council in Acts.

Do you know why Jesus asked Peter this:

John 21:17
The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?

Jesus did the same thing before Peter's betrayal because Peter would falter. This time, Peter faltered in Acts - after Jesus left for Heaven.

The Apostles, suddenly did not became perfect men when Jesus left. They were imperfect when Jesus was with them and still imperfect even after they acquired the anointing.

The writings in the Bible simply recorded their ministry just like we do our ministry today. Is there a perfect Christian today? None. Is there a perfect disciple? None.

All of scriptures is good for teaching......but only if you know how to use it. Otherwise, this is what you get, confusion, division, and lots and lots of denominations who don't agree with each other and lots of misunderstanding.
 
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W_McCarthy

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The writings in the Bible simply recorded their ministry just like we do our ministry today.

What about 2 Timothy 3:16?

I will admit that I have recently been going through huge issues of unbelief recently and having a lack of trust spiritually, but I know I can always go to the Bible and learn from it and not fear being corrupted by it because it is God's perfect word.
 
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now faith

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Me too. If you read the verses before and after Galatians 3:2, we read the Galatians were confused too! :eek:

The sequence in John is clear >> Love Christ >> if you love Christ, you will keep His commands >> If you do that, the Father will love him and make His abode in Him (possibly same as the Comforter).

What about Galatians? At best it seems vague and even very misleading if one doesn't know about John 14.

For this reason, I avoid reading Paul's epistles if possible. I find it often enough that many Christians would override Christ's teachings with Paul's if it appears contradictory and interpret Paul's teachings more literally. Very often, the "easier-to-do" interpretation is adopted. So I can't help but become suspicious if many popular Christian interpretation is really just of the flesh (natural instinct) for choosing the easier way that the Book of Jude prophesied and warned about (false/fake Christians) than of the Spirit.

Paul was dealing with outside influence trying to bring Gentiles into there Gnostic belief.
Paul asks a question ( who hath bewitched you )
He go's on to say haveing begun in the Spirit.

There is a very strong warning by Paul in this book due to false teachers trying to bring salvation by the law in rather than the faith in Christ.
It begins with chapter 1
Galatians: 1. 6. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Don't be worried about the Pauline Epistles , we just have to understand that Paul's teachings applied then and today.
Galatians is considered the Freedom Epistle , due to Paul teaching boldly who we are in Christ and how God's grace has given us freedom from the law of sin and death.
 
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timewerx

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Timewerx, please open your bible to 2 Timothy 3:16 and meditate on it for a little while.

I know and I agree....I've known it for many years.

But do you suppose everything that is written in the Bible, we should obey like stoning people to death?

Do you assume every main character in the Bible ended their lives in righteousness? King Solomon is one such example who made fatal mistakes in the end and we don't read anything of him changing heart (repenting).

And then Peter who was anointed by Christ to lead the disciples failed to do so in the Council of Jerusalem. He failed to feed the sheep (John 21:17) It would result to an ill-fated decision made by James that would have catastrophic results to Christianity.

Do you ever stop and wonder why we have so many denominations with distinct doctrines and can't quite agree?

Otherwise, you would not be making this thread.
 
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now faith

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What about 2 Timothy 3:16?

I will admit that I have recently been going through huge issues of unbelief recently and having a lack of trust spiritually, but I know I can always go to the Bible and learn from it and not fear being corrupted by it because it is God's perfect word.
Amen
 
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now faith

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The majority of Christians I know believe in saved by grace.

I used to believe in it too. But now I'm uncertain. It's not just John 14. There are many other verses that also state that salvation is more than just being grace.



Not everything that is in the Bible is God's Word.

Do you consider David's lengthy complaints in Psalms God's Word? Of course not! It is only placed there for reference.

Paul's mission is to spread the Gospel to the gentiles in a cultural context. Otherwise that Gospel should be the same as the one in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

But due to the cultural context, it may appear different, even contradictory. If in doubt, you can always go back to the originals.



There's a possibility that Paul did mean it in the context of John 14. As you can fervently dedicate yourself to the laws without loving God which is wrong.

John 14 is specific that you must love God/Christ first and then the works will naturally follow (it cannot be forced and you cannot force yourself.)

Thus, it may not be necessary to mention about the works.

Also, the laws/works that Paul that keeps mentioning may have nothing to do with the Gospel. It may concern with the dogmas of the Pharisees and other religious sects that is popular in the period.

You just need to "fill in the blanks". Paul isn't always thorough and if you read all through his epistles, you might find that it appears that he even contradicts himself! Of course his own contradiction would agree with the Gospels! Which eventually goes back to the Gospels.

If in doubt, the Gospel takes precedence. Is it really a choice between Christ and Paul, of course not! Jesus always takes the priority!

There can be no deciding what is right and wrong about God's Word , there can only be a lack of comprehension on man's part.
 
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timewerx

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Paul was dealing with outside influence trying to bring Gentiles into there Gnostic belief.
Paul asks a question ( who hath bewitched you )
He go's on to say haveing begun in the Spirit.

There is a very strong warning by Paul in this book due to false teachers trying to bring salvation by the law in rather than the faith in Christ.
It begins with chapter 1
Galatians: 1. 6. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Don't be worried about the Pauline Epistles , we just have to understand that Paul's teachings applied then and today.
Galatians is considered the Freedom Epistle , due to Paul teaching boldly who we are in Christ and how God's grace has given us freedom from the law of sin and death.

What I'm worried is that I find it very clear some of the Apostles made mistakes and many Christians don't see it ....like a magical spell had blinded their eyes.
 
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timewerx

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There can be no deciding what is right and wrong about God's Word , there can only be a lack of comprehension on man's part.

Are you saying, if I have comprehension, I would see that everything written in the Bible is good...

Is it good to stone people to death for transgressing religious laws?
 
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now faith

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What I'm worried is that I find it very clear some of the Apostles made mistakes and many Christians don't see it ....like a magical spell had blinded their eyes.

It could be confusion in the Bible translation you are reading.
Or try going to Bible Gate Way,go to version King James the go to listen to the Word.
The narrator keeps you more focused on what is being taught.
 
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now faith

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Are you saying, if I have comprehension, I would see that everything written in the Bible is good...

Is it good to stone people to death for transgressing religious laws?

That is what Paul was warning the Galatians not to fall back to.
All of God's word is true and the only thing that is different is we are free from the law of Moses by Christ on the Cross.
He paid the debt for our sins and bore the curse of the law

Galatians: 3. 11. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14. That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
 
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