I found myself in one of those gender-neutral restrooms

Nithavela

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The fact IS that Boys are NOT safe from predatory men in public mens rooms.

But again, that appears to be just fine with you. Boys are on their own. Only girls deserve extra protections.
Well, boys appear to deserve protection from women. And girls don't appear to deserve protection from women.
 
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parousia70

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Now you're trying to redefine what a man/woman is. Twisting the truth doesn't help.

well since you are such an expert in gender identification, Tell me then, is this a man or a woman?

Would you be upset if this person walked into the men's room with you?

Would you be upset if this person walked into the women's room with your wife or daughter?

get
 
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Armoured

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Its called man shall not lie with man.
Being transgender has nothing to do with who one lies with. There are homo and heterosexual transgender people, there are even celibate transgender people. Stop conflating homosexuality with transgenderism.
Again the bible says its, hence God says it. And its also YOUR view (as you say). And actually most of this forum agrees with me. Not that I want to bring this up because you get annoyed but most catholics I know (my family is all catholic to btw) have no issues with things the bible says is wrong like LGBT for example. Even on here they tend to have no problem with it.

Where as the "Default view of most christians" on here that are not from a catholic denomination do not have that view. I'm referring to non-denominational, pentecostal, baptists, mormons, evangelical, charismatic, presbyterian, jehova witness, protestant, mennonite...etc.

Actually I must correct myself, I'd say the number is more like 50% since catholics and other version (eastern orthodox...etc) take up a big chunk of the USA also. So neither of us is right, I'd say our views are split amongst other denominations.




I like you! I have a hard time making such coordinated responses. Especially about fallacies. You get my points on here.
Again, the Bible does NOT say it.
 
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Armoured

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The fact IS that Boys are NOT safe from predatory men in public mens rooms.

But again, that appears to be just fine with you. Boys are on their own. Only girls deserve extra protections.
But only from evil transsexuals. Apparently the idea of predatory women in public bathrooms, or, heck, even non-transgender predatory men in public bathrooms doesn't occur.

I know. It's shocking. If you can't trust sexual predators to abide by bathroom assignment, who can you trust?
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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I think that requiring stalls like in the OP would be a good idea. And you could make the venue operating the bathroom liable for any breaches of privacy. Have them pay a fee if they can't secure their own bathrooms. Bathrooms already need to be cleaned daily, so you might as well give them a look to search for hidden cameras.
That could work. And it makes sense.

This absurd notion that Boys are completely safe from predatory men in mens restrooms is, well, absurd.
That is true. The LGBT bathroom issue aside, regular restrooms attract predators. Making it gender neutral just makes it worse in every category.

Now you're trying to redefine what a man/woman is. Twisting the truth doesn't help.
Well to be fair hes not a christian. So of course he will redefine it.

Being transgender has nothing to do with who one lie with. There are homo and heterosexual transgender people, there are even celibate transgender people. Stop conflating homosexuality with transgenderism.
Its the same. I mean the bible doesn't say pushing someone off a building so they die is sin. Yes murder may be, but if I push someone, gravity did it. And therefor the bible doesn't' say I can't use gravity to do my work. This is why when people are legalistic it can cause problems.

Again, the Bible does NOT say it.
That LGBT is a sin? It says it lol. Not sure why you keep saying it doesn't.
 
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Armoured

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Its the same. I mean the bible doesn't say pushing someone off a building so they die is sin. Yes murder may be, but if I push someone, gravity did it. And therefor the bible doesn't' say I can't use gravity to do my work. This is why when people are legalistic it can cause problems.


That LGBT is a sin? It says it lol. Not sure why you keep saying it doesn't.
Transgenderism is not homosexuality. It's not a matter of legalism, it's a matter of basic fact. They're different concepts. The Bible says homosexual activity is a sin. That's it. It doesn't say anything about innate state of being. There is nothing sinful about being transgender, just as there is nothing sinful about being homosexual, although, as discussed, the two are not the same thing.
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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just as there is nothing sinful about being homosexual

1. Genesis 19:5: "And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, where are the men which came in to thee this night? Bring them out unto us, that we may know them."

2. Leviticus 18:22: " Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

3. Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

4. Deuteronomy 23:17: " There shall be no harlot of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel."

5. Judges 19:22: "Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him."


6. 1 Kings 14:24: "And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel."

7. 1 Kings 15:12: "And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made."

8. 1 Kings 22:46: "And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land."

9. 2 Kings 23:7: "And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove."

10. Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet."

11. 1 Corinthian 6:9: "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind."

12. 1 Timothy 1:9:10: "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"

Transgenderism is not homosexuality. It's not a matter of legalism, it's a matter of basic fact. They're different concepts. The Bible says homosexual activity is a sin. That's it. It doesn't say anything about innate state of being.
Well ok lets try this. Lets say a guy who is born a guy wants to become a woman (trans). And does so. And then he has sex with a man. What is he? Hes homoesexual since he was born a man and now sleeping with a man (outside of marriage none the less).

I know someone once told me God made them that way and hence its not a sin. Well what about killers? Did God make them that way to? Nope. The reason homosexaulity and trans...etc exist is because Eve bit the apple and brought sin into the world. So now LGBT exists and is in sin.

And again your saying "It doesn't say anything about that!". Did you read my first example about murder? So lets use another example, lets say I strave my spouse until she dies. Is that a sin? It doesn't say in the bible you can't starve your spouse to death. Right?
 
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parousia70

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1. Genesis 19:5: "And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, where are the men which came in to thee this night? Bring them out unto us, that we may know them."

2. Leviticus 18:22: " Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

3. Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

4. Deuteronomy 23:17: " There shall be no harlot of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel."

5. Judges 19:22: "Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him."


6. 1 Kings 14:24: "And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel."

7. 1 Kings 15:12: "And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made."

8. 1 Kings 22:46: "And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land."

9. 2 Kings 23:7: "And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove."

10. Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet."

11. 1 Corinthian 6:9: "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind."

12. 1 Timothy 1:9:10: "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"

Again, this is ALL about condemning BEHAVIOR, not attraction.
You do realize it's possible to be a celibate Homosexual don't you?

I know someone once told me God made them that way and hence its not a sin.

At what point did you choose to be heterosexual?
 
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SummerMadness

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Links have already been posted indicating otherwise.
Links were given to show that individuals place cameras in bathrooms, they are not part of an industry of hidden camera websites because no such websites exist unless they are staged.

If there are websites, then they are illegal, which is interesting that someone would say these places exist because if they're not legal, you have to look for them.

I don't care who they've been filming! The point is that we shouldn't be changing things to make it easier for them.
What evidence is there that filming becomes more frequent in gender neutral bathrooms? Gender neutral bathrooms provide even more privacy than current gendered bathrooms.
 
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Fenny the Fox

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Blind post, since I haven't read the entire thread, but this always comes to mind when I read these threads on gender v. restrooms:

I find it funny that we have a conniption over the rare instance of a "guy" walking in the ladies' room...but I have seen PLENTY of women walk right into a men's room. Especially if the womens' room has a really long line. No one has a fit. They just finish what they are doing then leave and maybe mention to their buddy outside waiting "dude, some woman walked in and went in a stall. Funny."

Not to be crass, I have been in a restroom, at the urinal, when an older lady walked in, hiked up her dress, and just...went at the urinal. No qualms about it. Just old lady going in the restroom with no line because she HAD TO GO.

I honestly don't think anymore events of "pervy guy in a lady's room" are going to happen by allows transwomen in the same restroom than happen now. Judging by the transwomen I know, they honestly couldn't care less about looking at anyone else in the restroom - like most people, they just want to do their business and go back out.


And I think most of the entire issue would be fixed if the US (and a few other countries) didn't have huge gaps below stalls, gaps between the doors and frames, and low walls. Just my two cents -and odd anecdotes- on the matter.
 
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Armoured

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1. Genesis 19:5: "And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, where are the men which came in to thee this night? Bring them out unto us, that we may know them."

2. Leviticus 18:22: " Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

3. Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

4. Deuteronomy 23:17: " There shall be no harlot of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel."

5. Judges 19:22: "Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him."


6. 1 Kings 14:24: "And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel."

7. 1 Kings 15:12: "And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made."

8. 1 Kings 22:46: "And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land."

9. 2 Kings 23:7: "And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove."

10. Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet."

11. 1 Corinthian 6:9: "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind."

12. 1 Timothy 1:9:10: "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"
All to do with homosexual activity, not orientation. It is not sinful to be a homosexual.
Well ok lets try this. Lets say a guy who is born a guy wants to become a woman (trans). And does so. And then he has sex with a man. What is he? Hes homoesexual since he was born a man and now sleeping with a man (outside of marriage none the less).

I know someone once told me God made them that way and hence its not a sin. Well what about killers? Did God make them that way to? Nope. The reason homosexaulity and trans...etc exist is because Eve bit the apple and brought sin into the world. So now LGBT exists and is in sin.

And again your saying "It doesn't say anything about that!". Did you read my first example about murder? So lets use another example, lets say I strave my spouse until she dies. Is that a sin? It doesn't say in the bible you can't starve your spouse to death. Right?
Again, they are separate issues. Again, there are heterosexual, homosexual, and celibate transsexuals.
 
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Nithavela

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well since you are such an expert in gender identification, Tell me then, is this a man or a woman?

Would you be upset if this person walked into the men's room with you?

Would you be upset if this person walked into the women's room with your wife or daughter?

get
Obviously a woman.
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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Again, this is ALL about condemning BEHAVIOR, not attraction.
You do realize it's possible to be a celibate Homosexual don't you?
That I agree with of course. And from my understanding if you are homosexual and avoid being with the same sex as a christian, then its a good thing.

At what point did you choose to be heterosexual?
When the bible said man likes woman and woman likes man. :p
 
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SummerMadness

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Everyone knows you choose your sexual orientation! Remember back in the day when you were contemplating whether you liked men or women? Some people know what they want from the start, while other go back and forth before settling on their final choice. Everyone goes through that. :doh:

And for the record, gender reassignment surgery does not make you a homosexual. I knew a man that had gender reassignment surgery, she now considers herself a lesbian; I'm pretty sure those condemning homosexuality condemn her too simply for being different, but according to them, she's not sinning. Which is what this all comes back to, they consider it icky, so they want to say it's wrong.
 
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parousia70

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That I agree with of course. And from my understanding if you are homosexual and avoid being with the same sex as a christian, then its a good thing.

Knowing this then, would you be willing to discontinue claiming that simply being a homosexual is a sin that is condemned in scripture?? (ya know, since you appear to agree that it isn't?)
 
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trunks2k

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Well technically thinking about it we could fix all this. Just build 20 little tiny one toilet rooms that each have a locking door as if you were using a bathroom in the house. Make sure the ceiling is not cheap moveable tile. Problem solved! lol. Obviously no one would do that. But its funny to picture instead of two rooms of toilets, theres 20 tiny rooms.
Nobody would do that? I can think of at least three restaurants I've been to off the top of my head that do that (well, perhaps not TWENTY rooms, but at least 10). I'm sure I've been to more.

Two of them have one long row of completely enclosed individual rooms with toilets and a common sink. One of them had a hallway of individual rooms with toilets and tiny sinks

ETA: A friend of mine who helps design building interior layouts has told me it's an increasingly popular design decision.

ETA II: Just thought of another bar and another restaurant that did the series of 10+ individual rooms with a toilet and tiny sink.
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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Knowing this then, would you be willing to discontinue claiming that simply being a homosexual is a sin that is condemned in scripture?? (ya know, since you appear to agree that it isn't?)
Well as it pretty much always the case on here, I'm terrible at thinking. No, seriously. I have a brain injury. So I don't word things right half the time. I should have worded it to say laying with a man is a sin, but if you stay on the straight and narrow and don't give into those urges, your not in sin. As is the case with many gay men who go to church but refrain from the sexual acts with other men.
 
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parousia70

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Well as it pretty much always the case on here, I'm terrible at thinking. No, seriously. I have a brain injury. So I don't word things right half the time. I should have worded it to say laying with a man is a sin, but if you stay on the straight and narrow and don't give into those urges, your not in sin. As is the case with many gay men who go to church but refrain from the sexual acts with other men.

I'm sorry I did not know about your brain injury.

Yes refraining from the BEHAVIORS helps create the conditions to better keep oneself in a right relationship with God.

That's why people must refrain from all sorts of deviant activities such as oral sex with their spouse, as scripture strictly prohibits such behavior, and it puts one in direct opposition to God..
 
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That's not what he was asking for. He asked for articles showing that people go into bathrooms and use cameras to secretly record other people on the toilet. That's what I provided.
But that's been happening for years. Some person will go into the wrong bathroom and put cameras in. Or do something wrong. And this was before the gender neutral restroom.
 
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