John 14:15,16 compared with Galatians 3:2

W_McCarthy

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I've been reading in the Gospel of John recently and just finished reading the Epistle to the Galatians. These two verses almost seem to contradict each other. I in no way mean that I believe they do, I believe that God does not contradict himself, but rather I know that I must just not understand something

Gal 3:2- This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

John 14:15,16- If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever.

also...

John 14:23- Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Christ's words on this subject make it seem that one must keep his commandments in order to receive the Holy Spirit, which goes totally against the gospel of grace taught in the Pauline Epistles.
 

Bumble Bee

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I've been reading in the Gospel of John recently and just finished reading the Epistle to the Galatians. These two verses almost seem to contradict each other. I in no way mean that I believe they do, I believe that God does not contradict himself, but rather I know that I must just not understand something

Gal 3:2- This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

John 14:15,16- If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever.

also...

John 14:23- Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Christ's words on this subject make it seem that one must keep his commandments in order to receive the Holy Spirit, which goes totally against the gospel of grace taught in the Pauline Epistles.

We receive the Spirit by faith, but we demonstrate our love for the Lord by keeping His commands. The Spirit helps us to do so.
 
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Bumble Bee

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This what I have been taught and have believed. These verses in John just confuse me though, He makes it sound like keeping His word comes first then the Spirit.
The Holy Spirit hadn't come yet at that point. Christ had not yet been crucified.
 
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Soyeong

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I've been reading in the Gospel of John recently and just finished reading the Epistle to the Galatians. These two verses almost seem to contradict each other. I in no way mean that I believe they do, I believe that God does not contradict himself, but rather I know that I must just not understand something

Gal 3:2- This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

John 14:15,16- If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever.

also...

John 14:23- Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Christ's words on this subject make it seem that one must keep his commandments in order to receive the Holy Spirit, which goes totally against the gospel of grace taught in the Pauline Epistles.

The issue is that they are not talking about the same set of laws. The phrase "works of the law" does not have a definitive article in the Greek, so it is literally translated as "works of law", which means that it does not refer to any specific set of laws, such as the Mosaic law, though Paul used it as a catchall phrase for Jewish laws, rulings, traditions, customs, and fences that they taught for how they taught to obey the Mosaic law.

There are verses like Isaiah 45:25 and Romans 11:26 that say that all Israel will be justified, so some Jews thought that Gentiles needed to become part of Israel in order to become saved, which to them meant going through the conversion process of becoming a Jewish proselyte involving circumcision, which made them part of the group of people wanted Moses as a mediator at Sinai and agreed to do all that he said. According to opening of the Mishna:

“Moses received the Torah from Sinai and transmitted it Joshua. Joshua transmitted it to the Elders, the Elders to the Prophets, and the Prophets transmitted it to the Men of the Great Assembly. They [the Men of the Great Assembly] said three things: Be deliberate in judgment, raise many students, and make a protective fence for the Torah.”

By the time of Messiah's day, these traditions of the elder or customs of Moses had become a large body of oral laws, which some were teaching that you needed to obey in order to become saved. This was the main issue in Galatians and in Acts 15:1. Obedience to God's laws has always been about demonstrating our faith in God about how to rightly live, for the righteous shall live by faith, but man's laws are not of faith.
 
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John Hyperspace

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I've been reading in the Gospel of John recently and just finished reading the Epistle to the Galatians. These two verses almost seem to contradict each other. I in no way mean that I believe they do, I believe that God does not contradict himself, but rather I know that I must just not understand something

Gal 3:2- This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

John 14:15,16- If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever.

also...

John 14:23- Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Christ's words on this subject make it seem that one must keep his commandments in order to receive the Holy Spirit, which goes totally against the gospel of grace taught in the Pauline Epistles.

What does Jesus say about His commandments?

John 15:9-10 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.

So, what does Jesus command? People talk about commandments all of the time; and when you ask them, what commandments? There is usually silence; or, a citing of the ten commandments. But rarely will anyone refer to the actual commandments which Jesus calld His commandments: let's not forget that Jesus is instituting a new covenant through fulfilling the old covenant; and what are the commandments of Jesus? We find these:

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
John 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

Now how did you receive this love that loves? By, works of the law? Or, by the hearing of the sacrifice of Jesus who said: John 15:13 and of which John says: 1 John 3:16 (I always found it quite interesting that this verse is 1 John 3:16 which mirrors John 3:16 - coincidence?) so again: 1 John 4:19-21. So you see, love begets love, not by works, but, by the hearing of faith. That is this Holy Spirit (that is, the Comforter) which is of God, and is God; and so we see that, God is love: 1 John 4:8

Now John writes of love:

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
1 John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

1 John 3:18-24 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

2 John 1:5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.

Now, love, by her nature, will wish to work no ill-will to the neighbor who is loved: Romans 13:10 so one with unfeigned love will not wish to work ill to them loved and will, by nature, do no harm to others, thus fulfilling the spirit; but the law and the prophets were until John: Luke 16:16: and afterward came the new covenant by faith: Romans 3:21-23 of which Paul speaks to the Galatians since: Romans 10:17

Doing "works of the law" tries to establish the righteousness of one by the commandments of the law; but love seeks not her own: 1 Corinthians 13:5 but to the good of others, working no ill to that is loved, and, thus, fulfilling the commandment of Jesus Christ. The source of "doing works" is oneself, but the source of "love" is God; so "works" puts salvation/sanctification/reconciliation into the hand of he who works; but "love" puts these into the hand of God who is love, and so Paul writes: Romans 9:32, Galatians 3:10 but Romans 4:5
 
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LoveofTruth

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I've been reading in the Gospel of John recently and just finished reading the Epistle to the Galatians. These two verses almost seem to contradict each other. I in no way mean that I believe they do, I believe that God does not contradict himself, but rather I know that I must just not understand something

Gal 3:2- This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

John 14:15,16- If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever.

also...

John 14:23- Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Christ's words on this subject make it seem that one must keep his commandments in order to receive the Holy Spirit, which goes totally against the gospel of grace taught in the Pauline Epistles.
Jesus commandments are different than Moses. Jesus would say things like Moses said, but i say.

also to keep His word you must first believe the word and be born again. Then Christ dwells in your heart by faith and through his power we can do all things for without him we can do nothing. So we do receive the Spirit by the hearing of faith, and not buy the works of the law. Jesus and Paul aren't different there. Although Paul may be also referencing the Holy Ghost baptism given and this was not yet given wen Jesus spoke, Although they could still be born again and have the spirit of Christ, ( the Son and the Father) in them before the cross ( read Matthew 10, about the Spirit of your father speaking in you", and Jesus is the Son and the Word and Christ in them. This comes at the new birth. Jesus said the words that he spoke ware spirit and life.
 
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timewerx

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You know, I kinda thought that might be why he said it, but wasn't totally convinced I guess.

Me too. If you read the verses before and after Galatians 3:2, we read the Galatians were confused too! :o

The sequence in John is clear >> Love Christ >> if you love Christ, you will keep His commands >> If you do that, the Father will love him and make His abode in Him (possibly same as the Comforter).

What about Galatians? At best it seems vague and even very misleading if one doesn't know about John 14.

For this reason, I avoid reading Paul's epistles if possible. I find it often enough that many Christians would override Christ's teachings with Paul's if it appears contradictory and interpret Paul's teachings more literally. Very often, the "easier-to-do" interpretation is adopted. So I can't help but become suspicious if many popular Christian interpretation is really just of the flesh (natural instinct) for choosing the easier way that the Book of Jude prophesied and warned about (false/fake Christians) than of the Spirit.
 
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W_McCarthy

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Me too. If you read the verses before and after Galatians 3:2, we read the Galatians were confused too! :eek:

The sequence in John is clear >> Love Christ >> if you love Christ, you will keep His commands >> If you do that, the Father will love him and make His abode in Him (possibly same as the Comforter).

It seems though that the confusion was brought about by false teachers trying to keep them under the law though. But what you said about John is honestly what it loos likes to me, but that goes completely against so many other passages.

o I can't help but become suspicious if many popular Christian interpretation is really just of the flesh (natural instinct) for choosing the easier way that the Book of Jude prophesied and warned about (false/fake Christians) than of the Spirit.

What about all the Christians in the past that stood for being saved by grace and not works so firmly that it got them put in prison, tortured, raped or killed though. That doesn't sound like the easy way.
 
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timewerx

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But what you said about John is honestly what it loos likes to me, but that goes completely against so many other passages.

That "so many other passages" most of them came from Paul's epistles. There's a pattern here that can be hard to ignore, unless looking the other way....

Paul took things in the cultural context. In fact, he said it himself. Perhaps it is why we have apparent contradictions. And I think a lot of Christians fail to see that. This means if in doubt, the Gospels should take precedence, not Paul's context.


What about all the Christians in the past that stood for being saved by grace and not works so firmly that it got them put in prison, tortured, raped or killed though. That doesn't sound like the easy way.

I don't wish to imply this to any Christian sect but doesn't false religions also have their martyrs?

It would be quite an effective testimony to have someone allow themselves to suffer for what they genuinely think is true (although it may turn out to be false but they never realized because they are deceived).

I'm just saying, if it worked out so very well to Christianity (we are currently the largest religion on the planet with most adherents, about half of the world's population!), why would the devil not use the same strategy? ;)

Jesus fervently warned His disciples against false prophets... I mean if anyone should be least likely to be deceived it should be them! If anything that would deceive them had to be very very clever!
 
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W_McCarthy

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I don't wish to imply this to any Christian sect but doesn't false religions also have their martyrs?

you have a good point. I just meant to suggest that being saved by grace and not by your own merits doesn't mean someone is taking the fleshly easier way, and in a lot of peoples life it has ended up being quite the opposite.

Aren't Paul's letters part of God's Word just like the gospels? I feel that for all the passages about being saved apart from our works or our own righteousness it's gotta be pretty important, and not something to be avoided. Quite honestly though, I'm a little confused on this subject still, there has to be a way that both of these passages harmonize.
 
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timewerx

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you have a good point. I just meant to suggest that being saved by grace and not by your own merits doesn't mean someone is taking the fleshly easier way, and in a lot of peoples life it has ended up being quite the opposite.

The majority of Christians I know believe in saved by grace.

I used to believe in it too. But now I'm uncertain. It's not just John 14. There are many other verses that also state that salvation is more than just being grace.

Aren't Paul's letters part of God's Word just like the gospels?

Not everything that is in the Bible is God's Word.

Do you consider David's lengthy complaints in Psalms God's Word? Of course not! It is only placed there for reference.

Paul's mission is to spread the Gospel to the gentiles in a cultural context. Otherwise that Gospel should be the same as the one in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

But due to the cultural context, it may appear different, even contradictory. If in doubt, you can always go back to the originals.

I feel that for all the passages about being saved apart from our works or our own righteousness it's gotta be pretty important, and not something to be avoided. Quite honestly though, I'm a little confused on this subject still, there has to be a way that both of these passages harmonize.

There's a possibility that Paul did mean it in the context of John 14. As you can fervently dedicate yourself to the laws without loving God which is wrong.

John 14 is specific that you must love God/Christ first and then the works will naturally follow (it cannot be forced and you cannot force yourself.)

Thus, it may not be necessary to mention about the works.

Also, the laws/works that Paul that keeps mentioning may have nothing to do with the Gospel. It may concern with the dogmas of the Pharisees and other religious sects that is popular in the period.

You just need to "fill in the blanks". Paul isn't always thorough and if you read all through his epistles, you might find that it appears that he even contradicts himself! Of course his own contradiction would agree with the Gospels! Which eventually goes back to the Gospels.

If in doubt, the Gospel takes precedence. Is it really a choice between Christ and Paul, of course not! Jesus always takes the priority!
 
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Soyeong

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Jesus commandments are different than Moses. Jesus would say things like Moses said, but i say.

According to Deuteronomy 4:2 and Deuteronomy 12:32, it is a sin to add or subtract to what God had commanded and Jesus was born under the law, so when you say that Jesus gave his own set of commands, then you are suggest that he sinned, and thereby that he was not the Messiah. Rather, whenever Jesus quoted from from Scripture, he preceeded by saying, "it is written", but when he from what the teachers of the law of his day were saying, he preceeded by saying "you have heard that it was said". In Matthew 5, Jesus was correcting the teachers of the law and was teaching how to correctly understand and obey the law of Moses. For example:

Matthew 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’

While the Mosaic law certainly says to love your neighbor (Leviticus 19:18), it does not say to hate your enemy, which is what the teachers of the law had wrongly been teaching.

also to keep His word you must first believe the word and be born again. Then Christ dwells in your heart by faith and through his power we can do all things for without him we can do nothing. So we do receive the Spirit by the hearing of faith, and not buy the works of the law. Jesus and Paul aren't different there. Although Paul may be also referencing the Holy Ghost baptism given and this was not yet given wen Jesus spoke, Although they could still be born again and have the spirit of Christ, ( the Son and the Father) in them before the cross ( read Matthew 10, about the Spirit of your father speaking in you", and Jesus is the Son and the Word and Christ in them. This comes at the new birth. Jesus said the words that he spoke ware spirit and life.

The Mosaic law was never given as a way to receive the Spirit, so it does not follow that we because we shouldn't obey it for a purpose for which it was never given that therefore we shouldn't obey it for the purposes for which it was given. If don't need to obey God's law to receive the Spirit, then it is that much more true about man-made works of law. Obedience to God's law has always been about demonstrating our faith in God about how we should live, so it is by faith that we obey God's law and by the same faith that we receive the Spirit, who has the role of leading us in obedience to God's law (Ezekiel 36:26-27).
 
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LoveofTruth

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According to Deuteronomy 4:2 and Deuteronomy 12:32, it is a sin to add or subtract to what God had commanded and Jesus was born under the law, so when you say that Jesus gave his own set of commands, then you are suggest that he sinned, and thereby that he was not the Messiah.

No, Jesus brought out the spirit of the law not the letter only. He would say love your enemies and bless those that curse you etc, and he showed that David ate the showbread when it was forbidden , or reducing a animal in a pit on the Sabbath day etc. But here heres some thoughts on this. I have to step out or i could give a more full answer,

John 13:34
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another."

Jesus did not sin ever and when he gives new commandments this is part of Gods work and for all.

Paul also said that the thing that he wrote were the commandments of the Lord 1 Cor 14:37 KJV

"
 
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klutedavid

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Me too. If you read the verses before and after Galatians 3:2, we read the Galatians were confused too! :eek:

The sequence in John is clear >> Love Christ >> if you love Christ, you will keep His commands >> If you do that, the Father will love him and make His abode in Him (possibly same as the Comforter).

What about Galatians? At best it seems vague and even very misleading if one doesn't know about John 14.

For this reason, I avoid reading Paul's epistles if possible. I find it often enough that many Christians would override Christ's teachings with Paul's if it appears contradictory and interpret Paul's teachings more literally. Very often, the "easier-to-do" interpretation is adopted. So I can't help but become suspicious if many popular Christian interpretation is really just of the flesh (natural instinct) for choosing the easier way that the Book of Jude prophesied and warned about (false/fake Christians) than of the Spirit.
Hello Timewerx.

Much of the time Jesus was talking to the Jews about the law,
because the Jews were UNDER the law.

Jesus was not specifically sent to the Gentiles, so Jesus rarely
spoke to the Gentiles.

Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles, hence Paul's letters are mostly directed to Gentile churches.

Many folk are very confused over who Jesus was talking to in the Gospels.
 
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Hank77

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This what I have been taught and have believed. These verses in John just confuse me though, He makes it sound like keeping His word comes first then the Spirit.
Keeping His word does come first. Repent and be reconciled to God.

Jesus said this ...
Joh 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Joh 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Joh 6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
Joh 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Joh 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
 
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Soyeong

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No, Jesus brought out the spirit of the law not the letter only. He would say love your enemies and bless those that curse you etc, and he showed that David ate the showbread when it was forbidden , or reducing a animal in a pit on the Sabbath day etc. But here heres some thoughts on this. I have to step out or i could give a more full answer,

Paul said that the law is spiritual (Romans 7:14), so it has always been meant to teach spiritual principles for how to live, of which the written laws are just examples. However, there is a big difference between adding to our understanding of how to correctly obey the law and adding a brand new law.

There are various instances where some of God's laws seem to contradict, such as what happens when someone wanted to obey command to circumcise a baby boy on the 8th day and it happened to fall on the Sabbath. It was not the case that they were forced to sin by breaking one of the two commands no matter what they chose to do, but rather that one of the commands was never intended to prevent the other command from being obeyed. This is why David was held innocent for eating the showbread and the priests were held innocent for performing their priestly duties on the Sabbath. Jesus ruled that it was lawful to do good on the Sabbath, so the Sabbath was never intended to be used as an excuse to avoid doing good.

new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another."
Jesus did not sin every and when he gives new commandments this is part of Gods work and for all.

If Jesus was adding or subtracting commands, then he sinning against God rather than doing God's work. However, there was nothing brand new about the command love one another because that can be found in Leviticus 19:18, but what was new was the quality of the example by which we are to love our neighbor. Indeed, the Greek word used refers to newness with respect to quality rather than with respect to time.

Paul also said that the thing that he wrote were the commandments of the Lord 1 Cor 14:37 KJV

"

This doesn't say anything about the command being brand new.
 
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LoveofTruth

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This doesn't say anything about the command being brand new.

Is the command to wait on the Lord for tongues, prophecy, doctrine in a church gathering new or old?. Do you see any commands for such in the Old testament?
Just read all the commands in the New testament and see how many there are that are new. They are all given by Jesus through Paul and Peter and John etc.

And when Jesus says did not Moses say, but I say. He is showing something higher than the law, he is showing his truth different than they saw Moses.
 
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timewerx

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Hello Timewerx.

Much of the time Jesus was talking to the Jews about the law,
because the Jews were UNDER the law.

Jesus was not specifically sent to the Gentiles, so Jesus rarely
spoke to the Gentiles.

Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles, hence Paul's letters are mostly directed to Gentile churches.

Many folk are very confused over who Jesus was talking to in the Gospels.

I don't think that is the case.

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”…
 
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