Is there salvation in Mary?

Grafted In · Dec 5, 2016

Ffraid said:
How exactly is mere acknowledgment of a fact honour?

What would you have me to do that would fulfill my obligation of honouring Mary?

Ffraid · Dec 5, 2016

Grafted In said:
What would you have me to do that would fulfill my obligation of honouring Mary?

What would you do to honour an ordinary human being?

Grafted In · Dec 5, 2016

Ffraid said:
Ffraid said: ↑
How exactly is mere acknowledgment of a fact honour?

Again I ask what you would have me to do that would fulfill your idea of honouring Mary?

Ffraid · Dec 5, 2016

It's not my idea. It's the Church's idea, and there are thousands of hymns to that purpose. On the other hand, you seem unable to think of a single way to honour another human being, let alone the Mother of God. Perspective.

Grafted In · Dec 5, 2016

Ffraid said:
It's not my idea. It's the Church's idea, and there are thousands of hymns to that purpose. On the other hand, you seem unable to think of a single way to honour another human being, let alone the Mother of God. Perspective.

I'll not point the blame at anyone, but our beliefs lack sufficient compatibility to continue this conversation.
May God bless you, Ffraid.

Ffraid · Dec 5, 2016

Grafted In said:
I'll not point the blame at anyone, but our beliefs lack sufficient compatibility to continue this conversation.
May God bless you, Ffraid.

God bless you and enlighten you. All in His time.

ViaCrucis · Dec 6, 2016

Grafted In said:
CL, if I may call you that, where do you stand regarding praying to Mary as is the custom of some?

The Lutheran Confessions state, more-or-less, that petitioning the saints to pray for us shouldn't be done; primarily because we have no way of knowing if the saints in heaven can hear us. But it is affirmed that both the saints and angels do, in fact, pray for us; as Scripture itself tells us.

-CryptoLutheran

Grafted In · Dec 6, 2016

ViaCrucis said:
The Lutheran Confessions state, more-or-less, that petitioning the saints to pray for us shouldn't be done; primarily because we have no way of knowing if the saints in heaven can hear us. But it is affirmed that both the saints and angels do, in fact, pray for us; as Scripture itself tells us.

-CryptoLutheran[/QUOTE?

Would you please offer some Scripture?
I'm not being sarcastic, I'm not 100% convinced I'm right.

ViaCrucis · Dec 6, 2016

Grafted In said:
Would you please offer some Scripture?
I'm not being sarcastic, I'm not 100% convinced I'm right.

"Then the angel of the LORD said, ‘O LORD of hosts, how long will you have no mercy on Jerusalem and the cities of Judah, against which you have been angry these seventy years?’" - Zechariah 1:12

"When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slaughtered for the word of God and for the testimony they had given; they cried out with a loud voice, 'Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long will it be before you judge and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?' They were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number would be complete both of their fellow servants and of their brothers and sisters, who were soon to be killed as they themselves had been killed." - Revelation 6:9-11

In the first we have an angel praying for God to have mercy on the people of Judah; in the second we have the martyrs described as before God asking how long until He finally judges the nations.

-CryptoLutheran

Grafted In · Dec 6, 2016

ViaCrucis said:
"Then the angel of the LORD said, ‘O LORD of hosts, how long will you have no mercy on Jerusalem and the cities of Judah, against which you have been angry these seventy years?’" - Zechariah 1:12

"When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slaughtered for the word of God and for the testimony they had given; they cried out with a loud voice, 'Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long will it be before you judge and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?' They were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number would be complete both of their fellow servants and of their brothers and sisters, who were soon to be killed as they themselves had been killed." - Revelation 6:9-11
In the first we have an angel praying for God to have mercy on the people of Judah; in the second we have the martyrs described as before God asking how long until He finally judges the nations.
-CryptoLutheran

I was totally unaware of that. Serves me right for neglecting the book of Revelation. Thank you, CL

Mimi of 5 · Dec 27, 2016

Daniel Marsh said:
”There is no one, O Most Holy Mary, who can know God except through thee; no one who can be saved or redeemed but through thee, O Mother of God; no one who can be delivered from dangers but through thee, O Virgin Mother; no one who obtains mercy but through thee, O Filled-With-All-Grace!”
--Saint Germanus of Constantinople, Patriarch of Constantinople

Saints quotes on the Blessed Virgin Mary

”It is impossible to save one's soul without devotion to Mary and without her protection.”
--Saint Anselm, Archbishop and Doctor of the Church

”Not only do they offend thee, O Lady, who outrage thee, but thou art also offended by those who neglect to ask thy favors . . . He who neglects the service of the Blessed Virgin will die in his sins . . . He who does not invoke thee, O Lady, will never get to Heaven . . . Not only will those from whom Mary turns her countenance not be saved, but there will be no hope of their salvation . . . No one can be saved without the protection of Mary.
--Saint Bonaventure, Cardinal-Bishop and Doctor of the Church

”We may seek graces, but shall never find them without the intercession of Mary.”
--Saint Cajetan, Founder of the Theatines

You don't serious believe this do you? May I have Scripture references to back this up? We have ONE Father...Elohim. We have ONE Savior, ONE Mediator...Yeshua, The Christ.

Erose · Jan 3, 2017

Grafted In said:
A straw man.
I'll spare you my opinion of that comment.

You do realize that real members of The Body of Christ have existed right along side of the churches that consider Mary to be more than human and to be given more attention to than the rest of The Body of Christ all through the years, living in plain sight, filled with The Holy Spirit and serving God, while the so-called "True Church" looks the other way so as not to lend credence to our existence and to claim we are outside of the Body in need of reunification.
3,000 people were saved and filled with The Holy Ghost on the day of Pentacost, 3,000 Spirit filled believers from far away lands required to come to Jerusalem at Passover and who later returned to their homes to spread the Good News of The Gospel.
The doctrines of the "Mary" churches was not part of the message they took with them. Why? Because it was not part of the message to begin with.
Those are the believers that I have tried many times to point out were hiding in plain sight, unrecognized by the organized churches that devised various manmade doctrines that the true believers find so incongruent with sound Scriptural teaching.
I won't deny that there are believers in "Mary" churches, but in my honest opinion most of them have been taken in by so many manmade doctrines that those not connected to "Mary" churches sometimes find them to be of another gospel....another faith.
Jesus Christ is at the very center of my faith and I suspect all other believers not involved in "Mary" churches.
If you can provide me with Scriptural proof that I ought to be thinking and speaking more about Mary than about Jesus Christ, I will convert to a "Mary" church.
In the meantime I'm afraid you are strapped with the burden of seeing a "strawman" behind every tree.

So you are saying that you don't believe Jesus is God?

Mimi of 5 · Jan 3, 2017

Mimi of 5 said:
You don't serious believe this do you? May I have Scripture references to back this up? We have ONE Father...Elohim. We have ONE Savior, ONE Mediator...Yeshua, The Christ.

Amen Sister!

Monk Brendan · Jan 3, 2017

Ffraid said:
What would you do to honour an ordinary human being?

A Nobel Peace Prize? Mother Theresa received one in 1979.

Ffraid · Jan 3, 2017

Monk Brendan said:
A Nobel Peace Prize? Mother Theresa received one in 1979.

You're the Nobel Foundation?

Monk Brendan · Jan 3, 2017

Ffraid said:
You're the Nobel Foundation?

No, I am not. I am just a poor monk living in a hermitage in Phoenix, Arizona. However, the Nobel Peace Prize is just ONE way of honoring a person. Medals, prizes, awards are other ways.

Goatee · Jan 3, 2017

Strange how some other denominations / faiths practice things that one would say are not Biblical but still find it ok to try and reprimand a Catholic from Honoring the Mother of Our Lord Jesus Christ!

Ffraid · Jan 3, 2017

Monk Brendan said:
No, I am not. I am just a poor monk living in a hermitage in Phoenix, Arizona. However, the Nobel Peace Prize is just ONE way of honoring a person. Medals, prizes, awards are other ways.

Except the 'you' in my question was not generic; it was quite particular to the person I was quoting.

Erose · Jan 3, 2017

This falls into the category of how far our society has fallen, in that we no longer think we should honor, respect and venerate those men and women who have done/do extraordinary things for us and/or society in general.

The Blessed Mother is deserving of our highest honor and veneration for she said "Yes". Yes to bearing God in her womb in a society that very easily could have stoned her for being an adulterer. Yes to bearing and caring for the greatest man that will ever exist. Yes to having to watch as her baby boy, who sucked at her breasts, who she held at her bosom and watched Him sleep, who heard His first sacred Words from His sacred mouth (I wonder what those first words were? MaMa or DaDa?), who watched as her son grew up, who followed Him when went forth to teach, and watched as they ripped the sacred flesh from His body which she used to bath and kiss lovingly; and seen them hammer those nails through the hands and feet that she just 33 years earlier tenderly kissed.

No this woman does not deserve to be honored and venerated by us, who, because of our sins, had to watch as her Son was put upon a cross.

Erose · Jan 3, 2017

Mimi of 5 said:
You don't serious believe this do you? May I have Scripture references to back this up? We have ONE Father...Elohim. We have ONE Savior, ONE Mediator...Yeshua, The Christ.

Can there not be a mediator between Christ and us? Do you not believe in intercessory prayer? Do you not ask others to pray for you when you are going through a rough patch? When somebody asks you to pray for them because they are going through a rough patch, do you turn them down?

Is there salvation in Mary?

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