Why do people hate the Seventh Day Adventists?

mmksparbud said:

Nobody is saying Jesus is an angel---He is CALLED the angel of the Lord-Joshua and Moses bowed and worshipped Him, nothing any angel would ever permit--not even Gabriel-- no angel ever asked for a man to remove his shoes because the ground he stood on was holy-Only God. It is a TITLE.

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That's what I said. Jesus is not an angel. An archangel is an angel.

EastCoastRemnant said:

How did you know what sin was? Did you inherently know it or were you taught it?

We are expected to live up to the light revealed to us as God winks in our times of ignorance.

Do I consider 90%+ of the professed Christians in the world to be children of God... no. By their fruits you shall know them. Are they beyond salvation?... again no but only through repentance and turning away from sin.

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When does a SDA become sinless? When does Jesus pay for their sins?

mmksparbud said:

These are quotes by EGW

It is always by grace-however, no one that breaks the law of God, and is unrepentant, will ever get into God's kingdom.
As you quoted---and with the proper emphases--
"Those only who through faith in Christ obey all of God's commandments will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression"'

It is through faith in Christ that we obey, it is out of love for Him.

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Are you sinless now? When will you be sinless if sinlessness is based on your obedience?

EastCoastRemnant said:

How did you know what sin was? Did you inherently know it or were you taught it?

We are expected to live up to the light revealed to us as God winks in our times of ignorance.

Do I consider 90%+ of the professed Christians in the world to be children of God... no. By their fruits you shall know them. Are they beyond salvation?... again no but only through repentance and turning away from sin.

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How did i know what sin was? Through the law written on my mind and placed on my heart.IE

I had not read a literal command That stated:
you shalt not have impure thoughts/ lust, yet I instinctively knew in my mind that was sin and in my heart I had heartfelt conviction I sinned if I lusted or had impure thoughts. How did I know this?
Because the true meaning of. Thou shalt not covet had been written on my mind and placed on my heart. Just reading the letter of that commandment would not have convicted me of sin concerning these things. For I did not understand by reading the letter of the tenth commandment lust/ impure thoughts was breaking that command
I can only repeat. If your view of Sabbath I correct, it I not possible for anyone to be a christian unless they are conscious they commit sin by failing to specifically observe a Saturday Sabbath. That is biblical/spiritual fact.
Yet seventh day adventists accept people as christians if they are not conscious they commit sin by failing to observe a saturday sabbath

EastCoastRemnant said:

Not to speak for mmksparbud but it is totally true. How could it not be if sin is the transgression of the Law. I we are in complete obedience to the Law, having repented and received pardon then we are without sin, not of our own strength and merit but through the Holy Spirit and the Faith of Jesus.

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Yes, sin is transgression of the law or disobedience to Christ's commandments. All are sinners, are they not?

What is the Biblical definition of a day ? length or duration ?

sparow said:

Regarding the Inquisitions, the truth is expertly supressed and you have to look out side the box to find it and you wouldn't accept it anyway; what do you think the Spanish Inquisitions were about; four hundred years to convert Saturday to Sunday.

http://www.remnantofgod.org/search/...t=0&q=inquisition&pvdc=0&op=and&cnt=10&sort=0

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Oh, OK. Sure. "The truth is suppressed". Of course.

EastCoastRemnant said:

As I have asked repeatedly, please quote the post where I said this... I never said it would cause to the Sunday Law being enforced but that it was leading to it. I never gave any timeframes or said Obama would be the president that would do so. Again I ask for your evidence of me saying this...

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Did I name the person who said it? Anyway, as I'm sure you are well aware, there is an edit function.

Phoebe Ann said:

That's what I said. Jesus is not an angel. An archangel is an angel.

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Not when it is referencing the angel of the Lord---which is Jesus--Who then was Moses and Joshua worshiping?

4x4toy said:

What is the Biblical definition of a day ? length or duration ?

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Hebrew us quite interesting.

A yom is not defined as something that is 24 hours long, but something that executes the action that defines a yom. Strictly spoken, a yom does not even have to have a length, as long as it executes the typical behavior that defines it. Forcing a static 24-hour mold upon the word yom may appear quite pious but flies flat in the face of the Second Commandment.
A yom therefore is a phase of a continuum (whether space-time, complexity or something else) that consists of two periods: a 'dark' part and a 'light' part. During the dark part of a regular day people sleep and are disconnected. During the light part they communicate and work together. Any other manifestation of yom should display the same kind of darkness (elements not connected) and lightness (elements connected).
http://www.abarim-publications.com/YomProblem.html#.WAV2ToWcEqQ

Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
"Yom" is the word used in the original Hebrew.
yom
יוֹם (day)
bê'yom בְּיוֹם (day)

The word for day in each of the creation days in the original Hebrew is written differently than the word day for when God said that Adam and Eve would die if they ate of the tree. Translation is stating that difference, interpretation is saying it means the same thing--which it obviously doesn't-one means an evening morning time period, the other means a period of time which can be days, months, years or longer.
http://www.mechanical-translation.org/mt/translation1.html

Phoebe Ann said:

When does a SDA become sinless? When does Jesus pay for their sins?

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I hope I get an answer to this.

mmksparbud said:

Not when it is referencing the angel of the Lord---which is Jesus--Who then was Moses and Joshua worshiping?

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They were worshipping God, not Michael. Michael was created by Christ.

There was only one entity there, and it was the angel of the Lord that they worshipped, the same as with Abraham.

Gen 22:11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
Gen 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
Gen 22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
Gen 22:14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
Gen 22:15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
Gen 22:16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
Gen 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
Gen 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

No angel---Michael is Jesus.

mmksparbud said:

Not when it is referencing the angel of the Lord---which is Jesus--Who then was Moses and Joshua worshiping?

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"The angel of the Lord" does not always refer to God. I posted that earlier in this thread. The only time the angel of the Lord can be worshipped is when it is a theophany.

2 Samuel 24
16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the Lord repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the Lord was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.

Zechariah 1
11 And they answered the angel of the Lord that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest.

12 Then the angel of the Lord answered and said, O Lord of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which thou hast had indignation these threescore and ten years?

13 And the Lord answered the angel that talked with me with good words and comfortable words.

Is the Holy Spirit a dove?

Phoebe Ann said:

I hope I get an answer to this.

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For a couple of months I attended services at a seventh day Adventist church to please a friend.
Whereas, people in many churches believe they will attain heaven by obeying the law, the seventh day Adventists I knew are one of the most extreme examples of this I have seen.
They rely on the letter of some of the law. They insist the ten commandments must be obeyed, alongside believing the levitical unclean foods must be avoided. The problem with following the letter, rather than the spirit I twofold.
Firstly, the letter alone does not make you fully aware of what transgression of the letter is
IE
I knew seventh day Adventists I the church who frequently took the lords name in vain without realising they were breaking the third of the ten commandments/they were not conscious they sinned by the words they were using. At the same time they earnestly stressed the ten commandments must be fully obeyed. I have never personally belonged to any church where the third commandment was so openly broken by so many
Also:

But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been released from the law, so Tha we serve in the new way of the spirit and not the old way of the written code rom7:6

All seventh day Adventists I have known follow parts of the written code.
The only people who believe they are, or can attain sinless perfection are those who do not understand the magnitude what that entails

The christian is called to follow after the spirit, not the written code

Phoebe Ann said:

"The angel of the Lord" does not always refer to God. I posted that earlier in this thread. The only time the angel of the Lord can be worshipped is when it is a theophany.

2 Samuel 24
16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the Lord repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the Lord was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.

Zechariah 1
11 And they answered the angel of the Lord that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest.

12 Then the angel of the Lord answered and said, O Lord of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which thou hast had indignation these threescore and ten years?

13 And the Lord answered the angel that talked with me with good words and comfortable words.

Is the Holy Spirit a dove?

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No, not always----just in these cases.
The Holy Spirit appeared as a dove--but what has that to do with Michael? It is still a title of Jesus, Michael the archangel
Zec_12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
'


Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them:

No angel can be worshipped---period.
And no angel will allow it.

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

EastCoastRemnant said:

Thats a statement but do you have any evidence? I can say the moon is made of cheese but without evidence it's just a lie.

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She predicted the Second Coming would occur in the 1850's.

See page 17 here: http://www.exadventist.com/book/

Quotes verified:

http://www.ellenwhite.info/books/ellen-g-white-book-early-writings-ew-15.htm

http://text.egwwritings.org/publication.php?pubtype=Book&bookCode=1T&pagenumber=132

sparow said:

I don't see any contradiction; I see a lot of unanswered questions.

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The author directly states that the Son is entirely different from the angels by nature. I really don't know how people can miss that.

Phoebe Ann said:

When does a SDA become sinless? When does Jesus pay for their sins?

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Any one that confesses their sins and asks for repentance at that moment is without sin... do we stay there in God Grace? or sometimes succumb to temptation and sin again?.... then confess and repent and we are cleansed through His blood again. Temptation is not sin but willful disobedience is...

The second question seems a little silly as we all know Jesus paid the price for our sins at the cross.

Phoebe Ann said:

Yes, sin is transgression of the law or disobedience to Christ's commandments. All are sinners, are they not?

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All are sinners before they come to Christ but through His blood and righteousness we can become overcomers as He was. It is not anything we do, per se, as justification is through faith in the Son of God but sanctification is our cooperation with Him through our obedience made possible through Grace.