Certainly

Der Alte

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Nope. The contradictions in the Bible alone is not helping at all.

You just voiced pretty much my exact thoughts, thank you!
There are no contradictions or errors in the Bible! If one who claims to be a Christians happens upon a website which list all the supposed "contradictions/errors" in the Bible, whether either accidentally or on purpose, should they not expend the same amount of time and energy reviewing the scores of websites which refute all the alleged errors and contradictions?
 
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CrystalDragon

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There are no contradictions or errors in the Bible! If one who claims to be a Christians happens upon a website which list all the supposed "contradictions/errors" in the Bible, whether either accidentally or on purpose, should they not expend the same amount of time and energy reviewing the scores of websites which refute all the alleged errors and contradictions?


I don't need websites to just see contradictions in the Bible, they're clearly in the Bible itself (plus those websites often site the direct verses anyway so you can check for yourself). Example: What were Jesus's last words? He could have had only one set of last words, yet each Gospel says something completely different. And you can't have someone's last words be four different sets of things so you could pick one and say it's correct no matter which one you pick. Same goes for the empty tomb, for that matter—how many women were there? Was there an angel? Was the tomb open? Each says something different.

I think you're so insistent that "there are no contradictions" because you're reluctant/afraid to investigate them yourself.
 
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Der Alte

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I don't need websites to just see contradictions in the Bible, they're clearly in the Bible itself (plus those websites often site the direct verses anyway so you can check for yourself). Example: What were Jesus's last words? He could have had only one set of last words, yet each Gospel says something completely different. And you can't have someone's last words be four different sets of things so you could pick one and say it's correct no matter which one you pick. Same goes for the empty tomb, for that matter—how many women were there? Was there an angel? Was the tomb open? Each says something different.
I think you're so insistent that "there are no contradictions" because you're reluctant/afraid to investigate them yourself.
There is no contradiction in the women at the tomb, one has to create it. The accounts are complementary. None of the accounts say that only the women, and none other, were present. The writer for his own reasons chose to mention only certain people. To illustrate my wife and I went to a military dining facility for Thanksgiving dinner. That does not mean I did not take four friends with us, which I did.
Rather than reinventing the wheel here is a harmonization from Tektonics.org
========
Here's a sensible reconstruction. Matthew is in red, Luke in blue, John in green. Matthew/Luke equities are in purple. Matthew/John equities are in black. (Mark reports more or less the same thing as Matthew.)

About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
When some of those standing there heard this, they said, "He's calling Elijah."

Jesus said, "I am thirsty." A jar of wine vinegar was there, so (i)mmediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a stick, and offered it to Jesus to drink (MT)/ they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus' lips (JN). The rest said, "Now leave him alone. Let's see if Elijah comes to save him."
When he had received the drink Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. (JN)/And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice(MT)/ Jesus called out with a loud voice (LK)/"Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last(LK)/gave up his spirit(MT).
So by reasonably equating John's "giving up" of the spirit with total event of the final cry, the problem is resolved. We need only recognize that John is focusing on what Jesus said that was not shouted publicly - the plea of thirst, the statement of completion, and the turning over of responsibility for Jesus' mother to John. This fits in with his station at the foot of the cross.
http://www.tektonics.org/af/crosswords.php

=======
And as I have shown here I'm not afraid or reluctant to investigate anything you can post. Every imagined error/contradiction that anyone can point out has been refuted many, many times. Google "Bible contradictions refuted" and see how many hits come back. There were 106,000 in this search alone.
 
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CrystalDragon

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There is no contradiction in the women at the tomb, one has to create it. The accounts are complementary. None of the accounts say that only the women, and none other, were present. The writer for his own reasons chose to mention only certain people. To illustrate my wife and I went to a military dining facility for Thanksgiving dinner. That does not mean I did not take four friends with us, which I did.
Rather than reinventing the wheel here is a harmonization from Tektonics.org
========
Here's a sensible reconstruction. Matthew is in red, Luke in blue, John in green. Matthew/Luke equities are in purple. Matthew/John equities are in black. (Mark reports more or less the same thing as Matthew.)

About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
When some of those standing there heard this, they said, "He's calling Elijah."

Jesus said, "I am thirsty." A jar of wine vinegar was there, so (i)mmediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a stick, and offered it to Jesus to drink (MT)/ they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus' lips (JN). The rest said, "Now leave him alone. Let's see if Elijah comes to save him."
When he had received the drink Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. (JN)/And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice(MT)/ Jesus called out with a loud voice (LK)/"Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last(LK)/gave up his spirit(MT).
So by reasonably equating John's "giving up" of the spirit with total event of the final cry, the problem is resolved. We need only recognize that John is focusing on what Jesus said that was not shouted publicly - the plea of thirst, the statement of completion, and the turning over of responsibility for Jesus' mother to John. This fits in with his station at the foot of the cross.
http://www.tektonics.org/af/crosswords.php

=======
And as I have shown here I'm not afraid or reluctant to investigate anything you can post. Every imagined error/contradiction that anyone can point out has been refuted many, many times. Google "Bible contradictions refuted" and see how many hits come back. There were 106,000 in this search alone.


But keep in mind those phrases "breathed his last" and "gave up his spirit" indicate that he died right after saying the indicated words. He can't have said his "last words", died, then briefly came back to life to say the others, then died again.
 
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Der Alte

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But keep in mind those phrases "breathed his last" and "gave up his spirit" indicate that he died right after saying the indicated words. He can't have said his "last words", died, then briefly came back to life to say the others, then died again.
Guess you ignored my post and the several pages of discussion at the link I posted.
Another link which resolves the supposed difference of Jesus' last words.
http://contenderministries.org/discrepancies/contradictions.php#17
 
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timewerx

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There are no contradictions or errors in the Bible! If one who claims to be a Christians happens upon a website which list all the supposed "contradictions/errors" in the Bible, whether either accidentally or on purpose, should they not expend the same amount of time and energy reviewing the scores of websites which refute all the alleged errors and contradictions?

I found out on my own.

And when every denomination says "I am right, you are wrong". It doesn't help either. Differences in theology, each claiming to be right. In fact, every religion does. They are all trapped in a circular reasoning fallacy.

That is the only proof I ever needed.
 
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timewerx

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I don't need websites to just see contradictions in the Bible, they're clearly in the Bible itself (plus those websites often site the direct verses anyway so you can check for yourself). Example: What were Jesus's last words? He could have had only one set of last words, yet each Gospel says something completely different. And you can't have someone's last words be four different sets of things so you could pick one and say it's correct no matter which one you pick. Same goes for the empty tomb, for that matter—how many women were there? Was there an angel? Was the tomb open? Each says something different.

I think you're so insistent that "there are no contradictions" because you're reluctant/afraid to investigate them yourself.

This is what you are dealing with:

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/begging-the-question/

So it's likely to be hopeless debating this one.

It happens to every other religion.
 
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Der Alte

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I found out on my own.
And when every denomination says "I am right, you are wrong". It doesn't help either. Differences in theology, each claiming to be right. In fact, every religion does. They are all trapped in a circular reasoning fallacy.
That is the only proof I ever needed.
The only one here using circular reasoning is you. "I found out on my own...That is all the proof I need." For every so-called error/contradiction you provide I can provide a logical, reasonable refutation with no circular reasoning.
 
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timewerx

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The only one here using circular reasoning is you. "I found out on my own...That is all the proof I need." For every so-called error/contradiction you provide I can provide a logical, reasonable refutation with no circular reasoning.

The major contradiction lies between faith with no works salvation vs faith + works salvation.

There is a major division among Christianity on that one.

That is concrete proof.

In the Bible we find a teaching, everything in it is good. Circular reasoning is to blindly accept it to be true. But reality suggests otherwise. Real life evidence suggests the contrary. If everything in the Bible is good, then Christianity should not be divided.
 
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Der Alte

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The major contradiction lies between faith with no works salvation vs faith + works salvation.
There is a major division among Christianity on that one.
That is concrete proof.
In the Bible we find a teaching, everything in it is good. Circular reasoning is to blindly accept it to be true. But reality suggests otherwise. Real life evidence suggests the contrary. If everything in the Bible is good, then Christianity should not be divided.
How does this address anything I have posted to this point? You last sentence removes man from the equation. The divisions come not because everything in the Bible is not good but because man is sinful.
 
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Anguspure

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What do you feel certain about as a Christian? Any examples?

How do you feel about things you doubt or are less than certain?

Are you ok with not knowing?
I am certain, to the point of knowing, that the God of the Bible exists, and I am certain that Jesus of Nazareth was crucified under Pontius Pilot.
My first belief is that God ressurected Him from death as evidence of the efficacy of His death for the forgivness of sin.
Other than these points pretty much everything (within reason) is up for grabs.
 
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Winken

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What do you feel certain about as a Christian? Any examples?

How do you feel about things you doubt or are less than certain?

Are you ok with not knowing?

I belong to Jesus, Jesus belongs to me.

"Things I doubt" and "ok with not knowing" are not specific enough for me.
 
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Shempster

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What do you feel certain about as a Christian? Any examples?

How do you feel about things you doubt or are less than certain?

Are you ok with not knowing?

I have spent alot of time reading the works of early church writers and discovered that they were also divided very much. Divided in what they "believe"to be true.

Since they all used basically the same available texts and quotes from the apostles, you would think that the answer to these things (like the origin of Jesus) would be easily understood.
They are not.

So it appears to me that these things are apparently hidden from us! Or at least the full view considering every perspective.
I got to thinking...the answers to these questions seem to have been hidden so they must not be all that important.
To religious institutions maybe, but in regards to our salvation and relationship with Christ...I don't bother having a solid belief on those things.
One thing is sure, for every view there is an equal and opposite view that changes everything. Most of us just pick the views we like and block out the rest.
How foolish of us.
 
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tucker58

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What do you feel certain about as a Christian? Any examples?

How do you feel about things you doubt or are less than certain?

Are you ok with not knowing?

Interesting questions redblue22 :) ! I am going to have to think about this and see where things go with this topic. Just of the top of my head, the only thing that I am certain about is that Lord Jesus is real. And based on sixty years of experience with Lord Jesus, day in and day out, I would have to say that the rest doesn't even matter.
 
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