MJ Only One GOD and One LORD (cont.)

Open Heart

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You are implying that these many Christian scholars don't believe the words of Yeshua/Jesus as recorded in Matthew 22:42-45.
I didn't say that. I said they believed it was David [also]. It's not an either/or. It a both/and.
 
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gadar perets

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When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.
Hosea 11:1

Please interpret this ENTIRE verse.
I already said I agree with you that Hosea 11:1 is a dual prophecy, but I'll humor you.

Hosea 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
Since Israel (Jacob), the son of Isaac, was already dead at that time, "Israel" refers to the children of Israel who were slaves in Egypt. They were collectively Yahweh's "son". "Child" refers to their infancy as the people of Yahweh at the time He called them out of Egypt into the wilderness.

However, Matthew 2:15 attributes the latter part of Hosea 11:1 to Yeshua, Yahweh's only begotten "Son".

And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of [Yahweh] by the prophet [Hosea], saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. This took place when Yeshua was a child.
This is not an "either or" case. Scripture verifies for us that the prophecy is dual in that it is fulfilled by literal Israel and Yeshua. Psalm 110 is different in that there is NOTHING in Scripture to prove it was not written by David or that he was a priest after the order of Melchizedek. We do, however, have Scriptural proof that it was written by David and that he was writing about Yeshua. We can wholeheartedly believe the latter, but must discard the former as man's false assumptions.
 
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gadar perets

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I clearly identify myself as a Hebrew Catholic. I am here in this forum because I am a Messianic Jew. Obviously this means I believe Yeshua is the Messiah. I'm certain I haven't said anything to give you the wrong idea. This is entirely consistent with being a Hebrew Catholic / Messianic Jew, just as honoring Jewish tradition is.
I have no problem with you being a Hebrew Catholic / Messianic Jew. I was addressing your statement that you believe like Orthodox Jews and would readily believe what their Rabbis teach. Since you do NOT believe their teaching that Yeshua is NOT the promised Maschiach, then you are not believing like Orthodox Jews or their Rabbis. Therefore, you need not hold to their interpretation of Psalm 110 being written by someone other than David since you know that totally conflicts with what the true Maschiach taught.
 
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Open Heart

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I have no problem with you being a Hebrew Catholic / Messianic Jew. I was addressing your statement that you believe like Orthodox Jews and would readily believe what their Rabbis teach. Since you do NOT believe their teaching that Yeshua is NOT the promised Maschiach, then you are not believing like Orthodox Jews or their Rabbis. Therefore, you need not hold to their interpretation of Psalm 110 being written by someone other than David since you know that totally conflicts with what the true Maschiach taught.
Why do you want to make it an all or nothing thing? Just because rabbinic Jews are mistaken about Yeshua doesn't mean they can't be right about a good many other things.
 
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Open Heart

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This is not an "either or" case. Scripture verifies for us that the prophecy is dual in that it is fulfilled by literal Israel and Yeshua. Psalm 110 is different in that there is NOTHING in Scripture to prove it was not written by David or that he was a priest after the order of Melchizedek.
I don't understand how you can see the dual nature of a scripture in one case and not in the other. Why can't David be a priest after the order of Mechizadek????
 
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gadar perets

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Why do you want to make it an all or nothing thing? Just because rabbinic Jews are mistaken about Yeshua doesn't mean they can't be right about a good many other things.
I have embraced Rabbinic teachings in several areas because I see it in Scripture. If they don't teach from Scripture, I will reject it.
 
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gadar perets

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I don't understand how you can see the dual nature of a scripture in one case and not in the other. Why can't David be a priest after the order of Mechizadek????
He can be ... as long as Scripture says he is. Since it doesn't say he is, but it does say Yeshua is, then I choose that over man-made assumptions.
 
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visionary

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I don't understand how you can see the dual nature of a scripture in one case and not in the other. Why can't David be a priest after the order of Mechizadek????
Interesting that you should suggest that. Psalms 110:4 names Melchizedek as representative of the priestly line through which a future king of Israel's David line was ordained.

II Samuel 9:17-18 …”‘The Children of King David were priests’....

King David was a Levite from the Priestly Clan of Eleazar and of the First Priestly Course, Yehoyaribe, assigned to the Tribe of Judah: “Bnei David Cohanim Ayue”. The lineages of Mary and Joseph were about the priestly courses Mary and Joseph served in. Uncle Zachariah served in the temple, and John the Baptist was also of the family of priests. Caiaphas, Yeshua’s second cousin was the high priest and later Yeshua's brother served as the High Priest in the temple after Christ’s resurrection. In Judaism today, it is widely accepted that David was a cohen. http://www.cohen-levi.org/the_tribe/tribes_of_israel.htm
 
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gadar perets

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King David was a Levite from the Priestly Clan of Eleazar and of the First Priestly Course, Yehoyaribe, assigned to the Tribe of Judah: “Bnei David Cohanim Ayue”. The lineages of Mary and Joseph were about the priestly courses Mary and Joseph served in. Uncle Zachariah served in the temple, and John the Baptist was also of the family of priests. Caiaphas, Yeshua’s second cousin was the high priest and later Yeshua's brother served as the High Priest in the temple after Christ’s resurrection. In Judaism today, it is widely accepted that David was a cohen. http://www.cohen-levi.org/the_tribe/tribes_of_israel.htm
Please quote your source for this info that is not found in Scripture. Your link says nothing about this unless I overlooked it.
David was from Judah.
 
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AbbaLove

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Just because rabbinic Jews are mistaken about Yeshua doesn't mean they can't be right about a good many other things.
So, then you agree that the Pharisees and scribes (Torah-teachers) that answered Yeshua about Psalm 110:1 were just as mistaken as are today's Rabbinic Jews that don't believe Yeshua is Messiah.

Matthew 22:45-46
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

Luke 20:44-46
44 David thus calls him ‘Lord.’ So how can he be David’s son?
45 Then in the audience of all the people He said unto His disciples,
46 Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;

The 42 Hebrew/Jewish generations from Abraham to Yeshua (14+14+14) named the father who begat a son (Matt. 1:1-16) EXCEPT for verse 16, as Joseph did not begat Yeshua.

Do you know of any running Rabbinic Judaism account of the Jewish generations (father begat son) that will provide sufficient evidence that Rabbinic Judaism's anticipated natural born Messiah will be from the lineage of David (Psalm 110:1).
 
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Open Heart

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So, then you agree that the Pharisees and scribes (Torah-teachers) that answered Yeshua about Psalm 110:1 were just as mistaken as are today's Rabbinic Jews that don't believe Yeshua is Messiah.
They were just as mistaken as some of today's Christians who think it is ONLY about Christ -- each sees only one meaning.
 
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visionary

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David was of the Tribe of Judah, not Levi. Both Matthew 1 and Luke 3 trace his lineage back to Judah. This is why the Messiah had to be tribe of Judah.
Mary's lineage [Yeshua's human blood line] is Levi. Joseph lineage is Judah, but since Ysehua's is not blood related, it is only an inherited heritage.
 
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Open Heart

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Mary's lineage [Yeshua's human blood line] is Levi. Joseph lineage is Judah, but since Ysehua's is not blood related, it is only an inherited heritage.
You stated that King David was a Levite. I provided the evidence that he was Judah.

On a side note, tribal affinity passes from father to child, so Mary's tribe would be irrelevant in any case.

I'm not sure why you think Mary was Levi. We know that Zechariah and Elizabeth were Levi, and that Elizabeth was Mary's cousin. However, if the Mary's parent who was the sibling of Elizabeth's father was Mary's MOTHER, Mary would not be a Levi. Further, if either of Mary's parents were siblings with Elizabeth's MOTHER, the girls would still be cousins, but Mary would not be a Levi. The only scenario that would make Mary a Levi is if it is Mary and Elizabeth's Fathers who are the siblings. Here are the possible matches; you see that a Father Father sibling match is only 1/4.
FF
FM
MF
MM
 
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gadar perets

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Scripture says it in the Psalm.

Psalm 110:1 לדודH1732 of David. מזמורH4210 A Psalm נאםH5002 said יהוהH3068 YHWH לאדניH113 unto my Lord, שׁבH3427 Sit לימיניH3225 thou at my right hand, עדH5704 until אשׁיתH7896 I make איביךH341 thine enemies הדםH1916 thy footstool. לרגליך׃H7272 thy footstool.​

Psalm 110:4 נשׁבעH7650 hath sworn, יהוהH3068 YHWH ולאH3808 and will not ינחםH5162 repent, אתהH859 Thou כהןH3548 a priest לעולםH5769 forever עלH5921 after דברתיH1700 the order מלכי צדק׃H4442 of Melchizedek.​

The Psalm is written by David about his Lord who fulfills verse 4. Until you produce a verse confirming your belief, it is only assumption, NOT Scripture.
 
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Open Heart

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The Psalm is written by David about his Lord who fulfills verse 4. Until you produce a verse confirming your belief, it is only assumption, NOT Scripture.
If you read it as a normal text, it is clearly a psalm about David. It's basic reading skills that you would use with any verse in the Bible.
 
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gadar perets

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If you read it as a normal text, it is clearly a psalm about David. It's basic reading skills that you would use with any verse in the Bible.
David never ascended into heaven to sit at Yahweh's right hand. That is the plain reading. "A Psalm of David" is the plain reading. What you are doing is first retranslating the text, then putting your own interpretation into it. I choose Yeshua's interpretation. I am also done discussing this with you since you have a "Closed Heart" to this truth.
 
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visionary

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Many teachers today have said there are "no written vowels in Hebrew." And yet, Yusef Ben MattithYahu (Flavius Josephus) wrote in the first century that he had seen the golden headpiece worn by the Kohen ha'Gadol, and he described how it was written in four vowels, in Hebrew (not the square Aramaic script we usually see called "modern Hebrew").
 
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gadar perets

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Many teachers today have said there are "no written vowels in Hebrew." And yet, Yusef Ben MattithYahu (Flavius Josephus) wrote in the first century that he had seen the golden headpiece worn by the Kohen ha'Gadol, and he described how it was written in four vowels, in Hebrew (not the square Aramaic script we usually see called "modern Hebrew").
I agree, but why are you bringing this up in this thread?
 
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