Dean of Rota warns Pope could strip Card. Burke and others of cardinalate
- Thread starter Michie
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It's not bridge building, but it's walking in solidarity with those who are as upset about certain things as I am but who haven't figured out a way to laugh at it yet.
Like renaming the cabinet positions--Secretary of Sickness, Ignorance and Ill Being. We still have the battle of our lifetimes to wage against injustice, but laughter is energizing.
i watch Stephen Colbert every night and it gives me courage. If he can laugh while his heart is breaking, I can, too. But it us unacceptable. We will still fight but we will laugh.
Like renaming the cabinet positions--Secretary of Sickness, Ignorance and Ill Being. We still have the battle of our lifetimes to wage against injustice, but laughter is energizing.
i watch Stephen Colbert every night and it gives me courage. If he can laugh while his heart is breaking, I can, too. But it us unacceptable. We will still fight but we will laugh.
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St_Barnabus
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Yes, but C. Burke gave many public interviews even before the synod began in 2014, and co-authored a book before the synod. Here's one example, but this search will show others.
After 2014 and prior to the second synod, He initiated another filial petition asking the faithful for their support, found both on YouTube and other forms of media reports. This apparently resulted in his not being invited to this synod.
And now again, another petition. He's been pervasive in the media over two years now.
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LivingWordUnity
Unchanging Deposit of Faith, Traditional Catholic
I think the following shows that my interpretation of the Christian faithful was correct:
"Can. 204 §1. The Christian faithful are those who, inasmuch as they have been incorporated in Christ through baptism, have been constituted as the people of God. For this reason, made sharers in their own way in Christ’s priestly, prophetic, and royal function, they are called to exercise the mission which God has entrusted to the Church to fulfill in the world, in accord with the condition proper to each."
"Can. 207 §1. By divine institution, there are among the Christian faithful in the Church sacred ministers who in law are also called clerics; the other members of the Christian faithful are called lay persons."
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For starters C212 itself. It refers to the faithful and sacred pastors seperatly as distinct entities.
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LivingWordUnity
Unchanging Deposit of Faith, Traditional Catholic
I edited my post after finding something. Please take another look at it.
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Those who profess vows or have magisterial authority are covered by other canons and have other recourse depending on position and state.
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St_Barnabus
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True, but you overlooked Canon 205, right in the middle, which states:
Those baptized are fully in the communion of the Catholic Church on this earth who are joined with Christ in its visible structure by the bonds of the profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical governance.
This book written by a Canon Lawyer explains this section more fully, and at the end, cites Canon 205 in footnote 58. It seems pretty cut and dry, but as is your right, you may interpret it your own way. I wouldn't pass it off to others as dogmatic, however.
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Whatever decision Pope Francis makes--and I'm not sure whether he's even thinking about it--I feel 100% sure it will have nothing to do with poring through legal tomes. It will come from his heart and his intuition.
In addition, Pope Francis is revered by Catholics and non-Catholics across the globe precisely because he is not spiteful or vengeful. He is revered because, in the College of Cardinals, he will allow the wheat to grow with the chaff, trusting that God will make it all right at harvest time.
In addition, Pope Francis is revered by Catholics and non-Catholics across the globe precisely because he is not spiteful or vengeful. He is revered because, in the College of Cardinals, he will allow the wheat to grow with the chaff, trusting that God will make it all right at harvest time.
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While I don't agree with you calling them chaff I do agree that it wouldn't make him look to good if he demoted them.
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agreed. Like it or lump it, they are in the family so somebody must have thought that they would make good cardinals.
I think that there has always been politics played out in the upper echelons of the Catholic Church. One doesn't make Cardinal without knowing how to 'move the pieces on the board" so to speak.
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LivingWordUnity
Unchanging Deposit of Faith, Traditional Catholic
Actually, you are mistaken. The heading of that section of the code of canon law explicitly says it includes all of the Christian faithful which, according to the same canon law (Can. 207) and according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 934), includes the clerical hierarchy of the Church. Here is that section with the heading (emphasis added):
THE OBLIGATIONS AND RIGHTS OF ALL THE CHRISTIAN FAITHFUL (Cann. 208 - 223)
Can. 208 From their rebirth in Christ, there exists among all the Christian faithful a true equality regarding dignity and action by which they all cooperate in the building up of the Body of Christ according to each one’s own condition and function.
Can. 209 §1. The Christian faithful, even in their own manner of acting, are always obliged to maintain communion with the Church.
§2. With great diligence they are to fulfill the duties which they owe to the universal Church and the particular church to which they belong according to the prescripts of the law.
Can. 210 All the Christian faithful must direct their efforts to lead a holy life and to promote the growth of the Church and its continual sanctification, according to their own condition.
Can. 211 All the Christian faithful have the duty and right to work so that the divine message of salvation more and more reaches all people in every age and in every land.
Can. 212 §1. Conscious of their own responsibility, the Christian faithful are bound to follow with Christian obedience those things which the sacred pastors, inasmuch as they represent Christ, declare as teachers of the faith or establish as rulers of the Church.
§2. The Christian faithful are free to make known to the pastors of the Church their needs, especially spiritual ones, and their desires.
§3. According to the knowledge, competence, and prestige which they possess, they have the right and even at times the duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church and to make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful, without prejudice to the integrity of faith and morals, with reverence toward their pastors, and attentive to common advantage and the dignity of persons.
Can. 208 From their rebirth in Christ, there exists among all the Christian faithful a true equality regarding dignity and action by which they all cooperate in the building up of the Body of Christ according to each one’s own condition and function.
Can. 209 §1. The Christian faithful, even in their own manner of acting, are always obliged to maintain communion with the Church.
§2. With great diligence they are to fulfill the duties which they owe to the universal Church and the particular church to which they belong according to the prescripts of the law.
Can. 210 All the Christian faithful must direct their efforts to lead a holy life and to promote the growth of the Church and its continual sanctification, according to their own condition.
Can. 211 All the Christian faithful have the duty and right to work so that the divine message of salvation more and more reaches all people in every age and in every land.
Can. 212 §1. Conscious of their own responsibility, the Christian faithful are bound to follow with Christian obedience those things which the sacred pastors, inasmuch as they represent Christ, declare as teachers of the faith or establish as rulers of the Church.
§2. The Christian faithful are free to make known to the pastors of the Church their needs, especially spiritual ones, and their desires.
§3. According to the knowledge, competence, and prestige which they possess, they have the right and even at times the duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church and to make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful, without prejudice to the integrity of faith and morals, with reverence toward their pastors, and attentive to common advantage and the dignity of persons.
The pope, being "the pastor of the universal Church on earth" (Can. 331), is a pastor not just to the laity but also a pastor to the other bishops (see Lk 22:32). So I’m understanding it the Church’s way.
And now that the "Filial Correction" letter was issued, Francis defenders dismiss it by saying they are only laity who are asking for clarity (a criticism which conveniently forgets about the dubia and overlooks the fact that the "Filial Correction" letter includes signatures of retired bishops).
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The Akita prophecy seems to be. All we need now is 'fire from the sky' in the form of nuclear war between the USA and North Korea and we're set. Wow.
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I was taught that 'The Christian faithful' was all of us, laity and clergy, bishops, cardinals, popes. Taught that by a canon lawyer.
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I have not added my name to the dubia petition nor the filial correction petition. I don't think it is right to pile on at this point. I do want an answer to the dubia. The silence is from pope Francis is discomforting. Demoting cardinals, if that is what he ends up doing, would be taken by me as an answer. But I'll wait until it happens, if it happens.
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