praying in tongues glossolia

Don't do it for what you can get. Do it to praise God, and let the process be a tool for Him to use to build you up.

Ken Behrens said:

Don't do it for what you can get. Do it to praise God, and let the process be a tool for Him to use to build you up.

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perfect answer!

One does not need to pray in tongues necessarily. Plain language is perfectly acceptable to God.

Minsc said:

So I am recently trying to return to the Lord and had been taught some on praying on tongues... anyone else do so frequntly do so and what has been ur experience with words of wisdom or knowledge u received as a result? I got one time I can't for the life of me remember what it was and I guess I should have written it down am trying to get another one

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As you are apparently "still in the process" of sorting things out with the Lord, I will leave this alone as a public forum might not always be the best way to go. But when it comes to being enabled to pray in the Spirit (tongues), then this is something that the Holy Spirit will enable any Believer to do if they so desire. To be able to praise God through the power of the Holy Spirit is a great way to release those inner tensions, where our ability to simply stand before the Lord (or even while driving a car) is a wonderful way to allow the Holy Spirit to speak words of praise to the Father on our behalf.

As for having the Holy Spirit interceding on our behalf in tongues, this is another matter, but to be able to freely praise God in the Spirit should be your first aim.

As for the other 8 Manifestations of the Holy Spirit (1Cor 12:8-10), I would leave them alone for now where I would recommend that you first sort things out with the Lord and then quickly seek to be enabled to allow the Holy Spirit to speak words of praise to the Father.

I don't see praying in tongues as a separate spiritual gift. But, as a possible use of the spiritual gift of tongues. In I Cor 14 gives the biblical expectation that every message, prayer in tongues must be interpreted or the unbeliever will think Christians at that Church are nuts. Everyone praying in tongues at the same time is Chaos. And, God is not a God of confusion.

I think it is all gibberish myself. Why would one need 'praying in tongues' when God knows and understand all!

I would be very wary that it is not evil trying to enter into your mind!

Minsc said:

anyone else do so frequntly

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Yeah, a fair bit.
1 Corinthians 14:4 "A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally"

Minsc said:

what has been ur experience with words of wisdom or knowledge u received as a result

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I've never received a word of knowledge or wisdom while praying in tongues. I worship God with tongues and it gives me peace/confidence/strength to go about my daily life "above" the troubles/problems that the world throws my way.

It's good to hunger for spiritual gifts, keep going!

Just remember love is the key to every spiritual gift.

You are awesome.

YouAreAwesome said:

Yeah, a fair bit.
1 Corinthians 14:4 "A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally"



I've never received a word of knowledge or wisdom while praying in tongues. I worship God with tongues and it gives me peace/confidence/strength to go about my daily life "above" the troubles/problems that the world throws my way.

It's good to hunger for spiritual gifts, keep going!

Just remember love is the key to every spiritual gift.

You are awesome.

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Can i ask?

Do you know / understand what you are saying when you are supposedly 'praying' in tongues?

antletems said:

Can i ask?

Do you know what you are saying when you are supposedly 'praying' in tongues?

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Nope. When I first received the gift the guy praying for me was interpreting only two words, "wisdom" and "joy".
It's good when I don't exactly know what to pray for:
Romans 8:26 "For example, we don't know what God wants us to pray for. But the Holy Spirit prays for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words."

Other than that, I see it as more of a spirit to Spirit thing.
Romans 8:16 "The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children."

YouAreAwesome said:

Nope. When I first received the gift the guy praying for me was interpreting only two words, "wisdom" and "joy".
It's good when I don't exactly know what to pray for:
Romans 8:26 "For example, we don't know what God wants us to pray for. But the Holy Spirit prays for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words."

Other than that, I see it as more of a spirit to Spirit thing.
Romans 8:16 "The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children."

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Then sorry but you could be saying any old gibberish as far as i am concerned. Why the need to say this when God can quite easily understand your 'normal' language?

Minsc said:

So I am recently trying to return to the Lord and had been taught some on praying on tongues... anyone else do so frequntly do so and what has been ur experience with words of wisdom or knowledge u received as a result? I got one time I can't for the life of me remember what it was and I guess I should have written it down am trying to get another one

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I would take the teaching you have received with a large pinch of salt. Over the last few decades a lot of bad teaching has been introduced on this subject.

There is certainly a physiological phenomenon which linguists called glossolalia whereby the human tongue can go into 'autopilot' and can put together a string of random syllables that sounds like a strange language. It has been well studied and documented by professional linguists such as Dr. William Samarin. His conclusion is "There is no mystery about glossolalia. Tape recorded samples are easy to obtain and to analyze. They always turn out to be the same things: strings of syllables made up of sounds taken from among all those that the speaker knows, put together more or less haphazardly but which nevertheless emerge as word-like or sentence-like units......When the full apparatus of linguistic science comes to bear on glossolalia this turns out to be only a facade of language......And it has already been established that no special power needs to take over a person's vocal organs; all of us are equipped with everything we need to produce glossolalia.....In fact, anybody can produce glossolalia if he is uninhibited and if he discovers what the 'trick' is.."

Modern day glossolalia is not the gift of tongues of the New Testament. There is only one description of the gift (Acts 2:4-11) and it is clearly the miraculous ability to speak a foreign human language that has not been previously learned. Nowhere in scripture is it redefined as a non-human 'heavenly' language or anything else. Throughout church history, from the Church Fathers to the great Victorian theologians, tongues has always been regarded as foreign languages. Only since the advent of Pentecostalism and the charismatic movement in the twentieth century has the idea been propagated that tongues is a 'heavenly' language so as to accommodate their experience of glossolalia.

Daniel Marsh said:

I don't see praying in tongues as a separate spiritual gift. But, as a possible use of the spiritual gift of tongues. In I Cor 14 gives the biblical expectation that every message, prayer in tongues must be interpreted or the unbeliever will think Christians at that Church are nuts. Everyone praying in tongues at the same time is Chaos. And, God is not a God of confusion.

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As a Pentecostal I agree that within the setting of a congregational meeting each tongue must be articulated before another one is given, up to a maximun of three. The common practice where various Pentecostal and charismatic congregations allow or even encourage all those who are within a meeting to sing words of praise to the Father in the Spirit may be beneficial to those who are praising God, but the Scriptures absolutely forbid this type of activity.

Edit: Grammar

antletems said:

Can i ask?

Do you know / understand what you are saying when you are supposedly 'praying' in tongues?

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As Paul has categorically stated in 1Cor 14:2 and throughout chapter 14 that no man understands what the Spirit is saying, then the answer would be no.

I am aware that their are a number of CF members who for some strange reason seem to be afraid of prayer, where they oddly deem this to be in contradiction to the Canon of Scripture, but for these souls they only need to learn to trust God in that he will not only hear our prayers but that he also answers them.

As for being able to pray in the Spirit (tongues), I am aware that the ability of the Believer to speak in an Angelic tongue is a foretaste of the future Kingdom of God, where I am thankful that I can praise the Father in words that no human tongue can match; but as to the legal aspect of having the Holy Spirit interceding for me or others when he prays to the Father outside of our understanding is in my view quite a mystery as I don't really understand how this can break down spiritual strongholds and change the course of certain directions - but I am just thankful that prayer, be it with the mind or in the Holy Spirit can actually do such things.

(1) I hope you will have a chance to read what is said in the message below.
I want to tell you that I completely agree with the author of this message
cuz i didnt meet any prophets in our churches...
what I have met is deception and lie. God is going to judge these
false prophets who say desires of their hearts on behalf of God.
So, I do not believe that the Spirit of God gives today gifts of prophecies
and tongues as He gave them in the early Church.
Moreover there is no need for such prophecies today.

I will explain you what I think.
My point is:
1. Everything is said. There is no need for any new prophecies.
What is new it is not true. There is nothing new in the Bible.
If you need a prophecy, open the Bible and you will see how God talks to
you THROUGH the words of the Bible uttered by Him and written in the Bible already.
2. God does not talk to people DIRECTLY and in audible voice today as to Moses or Isaiah or Daniel..or other prophets.
Why? God talked to Moses and prophets DIRECTLY, after this communication with God, the prophets went to Israel and communicated/gave them
what God said.
So, today God told us everything. There is no need for any NEW prophecies to be uttered by average christians or even pastors.
3. If a christian claims that God talked to him directly and said something then any claim of such christian
on behalf of God will be judged by Him. You know that already. Moreover, our madhouses are full of patients who claim that they constantly talk to 'god' or hear voices
in head.
Do you remember how God warns that any false prophet will be punished by death in the Lake of Fire because they say what God didnt say and
they share their desires/dreams what God didnt utter (Jeremiah). I will you some references:

This is what the LORD Almighty says: "Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD.

Jeremiah 23

The Branch of Righteousness

23 “Woe to the shepherds who destroy and scatter the sheep of My pasture!” says the Lord. 2 Therefore thus says the Lord God of Israel against the shepherds who feed My people: “You have scattered My flock, driven them away, and not attended to them. Behold, I will attend to you for the evil of your doings,” says the Lord. 3 “But I will gather the remnant of My flock out of all countries where I have driven them, and bring them back to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase. 4 I will set up shepherds over them who will feed them; and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, nor shall they be lacking,” says the Lord.
5 “Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord,
“That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness;
A King shall reign and prosper,
And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth.
6 In His days Judah will be saved,
And Israel will dwell safely;
Now this is His name by which He will be called:
THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

7 “Therefore, behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord, “that they shall no longer say, ‘As the Lord lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of Egypt,’ 8 but, ‘As the Lord lives who brought up and led the descendants of the house of Israel from the north country and from all the countries where I had driven them.’ And they shall dwell in their own land.”
False Prophets and Empty Oracles
9 My heart within me is broken
Because of the prophets;
All my bones shake.
I am like a drunken man,
And like a man whom wine has overcome,
Because of the Lord,
And because of His holy words.
10 For the land is full of adulterers;
For because of a curse the land mourns.
The pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up.
Their course of life is evil,
And their might is not right.
11 “For both prophet and priest are profane;
Yes, in My house I have found their wickedness,” says the Lord.
12 “Therefore their way shall be to them
Like slippery ways;
In the darkness they shall be driven on
And fall in them;
For I will bring disaster on them,
The year of their punishment,” says the Lord.
13 “And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria:
They prophesied by Baal
And caused My people Israel to err.
14 Also I have seen a horrible thing in the prophets of Jerusalem:
They commit adultery and walk in lies;
They also strengthen the hands of evildoers,
So that no one turns back from his wickedness.
All of them are like Sodom to Me,
And her inhabitants like Gomorrah.
15 “Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts concerning the prophets:
‘Behold, I will feed them with wormwood,
And make them drink the water of gall;
For from the prophets of Jerusalem
Profaneness has gone out into all the land.’”
16 Thus says the Lord of hosts:
“Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you.
They make you worthless;
They speak a vision of their own heart,
Not from the mouth of the Lord.
17 They continually say to those who despise Me,
‘The Lord has said, “You shall have peace”’;
And to everyone who walks according to the dictates of his own heart, they say,
‘No evil shall come upon you.’”
18 For who has stood in the counsel of the Lord,
And has perceived and heard His word?
Who has marked His word and heard it?
19 Behold, a whirlwind of the Lord has gone forth in fury—
A violent whirlwind!
It will fall violently on the head of the wicked.
20 The anger of the Lord will not turn back
Until He has executed and performed the thoughts of His heart.
In the latter days you will understand it perfectly.
21 “I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran.
I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
22 But if they had stood in My counsel,
And had caused My people to hear My words,
Then they would have turned them from their evil way
And from the evil of their doings.
23 “Am I a God near at hand,” says the Lord,
“And not a God afar off?
24 Can anyone hide himself in secret places,
So I shall not see him?” says the Lord;
“Do I not fill heaven and earth?” says the Lord.
25 “I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in My name, saying, ‘I have dreamed, I have dreamed!’ 26 How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart, 27 who try to make My people forget My name by their dreams which everyone tells his neighbor, as their fathers forgot My name for Baal.
28 “The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream;
And he who has My word, let him speak My word faithfully.
What is the chaff to the wheat?” says the Lord.
29 “Is not My word like a fire?” says the Lord,
“And like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?
30 “Therefore behold, I am against the prophets,” says the Lord, “who steal My words every one from his neighbor. 31 Behold, I am against the prophets,” says the Lord, “who use their tongues and say, ‘He says.’ 32 Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams,” says the Lord, “and tell them, and cause My people to err by their lies and by their recklessness. Yet I did not send them or command them; therefore they shall not profit this people at all,” says the Lord.
33 “So when these people or the prophet or the priest ask you, saying, ‘What is the oracle of the Lord?’ you shall then say to them, ‘What oracle?’ I will even forsake you,” says the Lord. 34 “And as for the prophet and the priest and the people who say, ‘The oracle of the Lord!’ I will even punish that man and his house. 35 Thus every one of you shall say to his neighbor, and every one to his brother, ‘What has the Lord answered?’ and, ‘What has the Lord spoken?’ 36 And the oracle of the Lord you shall mention no more. For every man’s word will be his oracle, for you have perverted the words of the living God, the Lord of hosts, our God. 37 Thus you shall say to the prophet, ‘What has the Lord answered you?’ and, ‘What has the Lord spoken?’ 38 But since you say, ‘The oracle of the Lord!’ therefore thus says the Lord: ‘Because you say this word, “The oracle of the Lord!” and I have sent to you, saying, “Do not say, ‘The oracle of the Lord!’” 39 therefore behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you and forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and will cast you out of My presence. 40 And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten.’”


---
Our churches today are full of people who claim that God talks to them directly.
I do not believe in that. God can talk to Muslims directly in dreams and visions to convert them but not in reality.

Also, I believe that God gave revelations to prophets in the early christian church.
Why?
To build them up. I.e. to build the Church in the beginning! And there is no need today for any 'new' prophecies.
The same way, I believe that God gave many gifts (about 12) and one of them
is speaking in tongues. Why? To build up the early Church and guide them.
Today I think there is no need for speaking in tongues. Why? read about it below too.
Moreover, I have NEVER heard that somebody would speak today in tongues.
What I have heard is deception and barking...no clear LANGUAGE!!!
Read this message below I completely agree with:

Why I Don't Believe in 'Speaking in Tongues'.........
Posted : 1 Nov, 2011 03:36 PM


by: Dave Stevens

There was a time when I thought I spoke in tongues and saw visions of Jesus speaking to me. So, it is not as if I have a bias against the charismatic gifts. I use to think my special "baptism" of gifts offered me a deeper experience with God. I came home from college asking my church and believing family why they ignored the teachings on the Holy Spirit. I use to think that the gifts were the demonstration of the power of God.

I still believe in miracles and supernatural answers to prayer. However, I have come to realize that the Holy Spirit almost always works with and through the Word of God. In contrast to those who would deny the power of the Holy Spirit, I affirm that the greatest demonstration of the power of the Holy Spirit is in the sovereign regeneration of lost souls, whereby God turns an unbelieving God hater into a believer.

I also want to set strait those who would accuse me of denying the fact that God directs us. I believe that God leads and directs His elect by giving them desires that conform to His revealed will (the Bible). In fact, God “works all things according to the counsel of His will” (Eph 1:11). Romans 8:28 says, "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose." The opposite is also true of the reprobate. He works all things out for the bad to those who do not love God. For example, Prov. 16:4 states that "The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom." Romans 9:17 says of Pharaoh, “For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, 'For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.'”

So, it would be perfectly appropriate to say, “I feel that God is leading me to do such and such”, which is another way of saying, “I think God is giving me the desire to do such and such”. If that desire conforms to God’s revealed will, we should recognize it as the gracious work of God in our hearts to conform us to the image of His Son. However, it is completely different to say, “God told me such and such” The former statement acknowledges God’s providence in leading us by means of our desires and circumstances. The later statement invokes the authority of God by speaking on His behalf. There is a big difference. In our modern experiential culture, professing Christians have become very comfortable with speaking on God’s behalf. This shows that they have little respect for His inspired word and no fear of misrepresenting Him. Few people take to heart the warning found in Deut. 18:20, "But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die."

Cessationism teaches that the revelatory gifts (tongues and prophecy) have ceased to be given to the church by the Holy Spirit after the completion of the New Testament canon. The following is a list of reasons why I have become a cessationist.

Reason 1 - The Scriptures Are Sufficient For Every Good Work

2 Timothy 3:16-17 says, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." This passage explains that the scriptures are sufficient for our sanctification. It doesn't say that the scriptures equip us for some works, but we need the gifts of tongues or prophecy to really experience super spirituality. It says that the scriptures are sufficient to equip us for every good work.

Reason 2 - The Scriptures Are Sufficient For Salvation

The scriptures are also sufficient for saving souls. Romans 1:16 says, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek." Those who would promote so called "power evangelism" argue that the gifts are important evangelistic tools. They would argue that miracles and demonstrations of the power of God would cause someone to believe in the gospel. In the story of the rich man and Lazarus, told by Jesus in Luke 16, the rich man in hell begs Abraham to send Lazarus "to my father's house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment" (vs. 27b-28). Abraham then says "They have Moses and the prophets". The rich man argued the same argument as "power evangelists" do today. "No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent" (vs. 30). Abraham's reply is this, "If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead." So miracles do nothing to save the lost. God must first perform a sovereign work of regeneration before someone can believe.

The children of Israel witnessed many many miracles. They witnessed the 10 plagues in Egypt. They saw the parting of the Red Sea. They were guided by the pillar of fire at night and the pillar of cloud during the day. They were fed manna (a picture of Christ) for food. The drank from the rock (a picture of Christ) in the dessert. They heard God's very voice on Mt. Sinai. But, was this enough to give them faith? No, Hebrews says that they all died in the wilderness (except the families of Moses, Aaron, and Caleb) because of unbelief.

For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. - Hebrews 3:16-19

What did those miracles accomplish for those who died in the wilderness? They served as greater judgement for them in hell. But to God's elect they serve as a witness of God's power and deliverance in salvation.

God has not chosen the gifts of tongues and prophecy as His means of producing faith in unbelievers. Instead, "it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe." (1 Cor. 1:21).

Reason 3 - The Scriptures Are Complete

Hebrews 1:1-2 says the following:

God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

The Greek word elalesen (spoken) is an aorist tense verb. The aorist tense indicates an action that has been completed in the past. Is God still speaking to us today through new revelation (tongues and prophecy)? No, because God has already spoken through His Son. His revelation is complete. But when did God speak by His Son? The answer can be found in John.

"These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. - John 14:25-26

“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you. - John 16:12-15

From these passages we see that the Apostles are not given anything apart from Jesus. Jesus was the true prophet. He had a set doctrine or teaching that he wanted to pass on to the disciples. However, the Holy Spirit would cause them to remember the things that Jesus taught. Even Paul was directly taught by the risen Jesus Christ (see Gal. 1:12 & 1 Cor. 11:23). Jesus is very clear in this passage that the Holy Spirit will speak only the things He hears from the Son (see "He will take of Mine and declare it to you" in vs 15). That is why the early church needed the gift of prophecy and tongues while the canon (list of books considered scripture) was being completed by the disciples. Theses gifts (as well as miracles) also authenticated the message being delivered.

The canon of scripture was eventually finished by John with the following warning in Revelations.

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. - Rev. 22:18-19

When John wrote Revelation, he was aware of the fact that he was the only surviving eye witness and apostle. Therefore, this warning can be understood in a much broader sense than just the book of Revelation.

I have yet to find a new translation of the Bible that contains new revelation from a modern day tongues and prophecy. But why not? If a new tongue or prophecy is from God, then it should be recognized as the very words of God and added to the back of every Bible. Why should there be any distinction? If God has really spoken through a modern day prophet, then His words today should cary the same authority as His words spoken long ago. Many who argue that tongues and prophecy are for today would balk at such an idea. They know that their modern day tongue or prophecy do not have the same authority as scripture. But they fail to explain why.

Reason 4 - Our Hearts Are Deceitful Above All Things

Jeremiah 17:9 says the following about our hearts

“The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it?

Yet so many charismatics blindly follow inclinations and feelings in their heart that they think are from God. I once did this myself. My heart was deceiving myself into thinking that I was receiving revelation from God, when that revelation actually was coming from my own imagination and vanity. I was so deceived, that I actually thought that by making strange nonsensical noises, I was able to speak in an "angelic language". Jeremiah 23:25-26 explains that false prophecy comes from the deceit of our own hearts.

"I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in My name, saying, ‘I have dreamed, I have dreamed!’ How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart," - Jer. 23:25-26

"Is not My word like a fire?” says the LORD, And like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?" - Jer. 23:29

How do we know if a tongue or prophecy is from God? After all, it could be our imagination, or a hallucination. Charismatics usually have two answers for this.

They quote 1 John 4:1 out of context, which says, "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God." The charismatic would interpret this passage by saying that we are to ask the spirit (the voice in our head) whether Jesus came in the flesh. But this is not what John is asking us to do. He is telling the church to test those who claim to be prophets by examining their doctrine. That is why John warns them that "many false prophets have gone out into the world".

Secondly, those who believe that tongues and prophecy are for today usually say that a tongue or prophecy can be validated by comparing it with scripture. But if every prophecy must be compared with scripture, then why do we need the new tongue or prophecy?

Reason 5 - We Are To Focus on God's Revealed Will

Many would argue that tongues and prophecy help us to understand God's secret plan for our lives. In this way, it is said that we can "get in on what God is going". Should we be focused on God's secret will? Actually, the Bible tells us the opposite.

“The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law. - Deut. 29:29

Instead of worrying about missing out on God's plan, we should trust that God is sovereign enough to direct us by orchestrating events according to His providence. This is tremendously freeing because we no longer need to worry about looking for signs of God's secret will (which is superstition). Believers never miss out on something "better" because "all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose" (Romans 8:28). This frees us to focus on obeying His revealed will (i.e. ten commandments). God will take care of the rest. Jesus says "If you love Me, keep My commandments" (John 14:15). He doesn't tell us to focus on new revelation. Instead, we are to focus our attention and energies on what He has revealed, "My commandments".

We are also told several times in the scriptures not to "interpret omens" (see Lev. 19:26 Deut. 18:10). However, this is exactly what Charismatics do when they interpret current events as signs from God.

Reason 6 - The Imperatives in 1 Corinthians 12:31 and 14:1 Are Mistranslations

Some would quote the following verses to show that we should "earnestly desire the best gifts" (prophecy, tongues, etc).

"But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way." - 1 Cor. 12:31

"Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy." - 1 Cor. 14:1

The Greek word for "earnestly desire" in vs 12:31 and "desire" in vs. 14:1 is zhlouvte (zaloute), which is a second person plural present active verb. The question at hand is whether this verb is in the imperative (a command) or indicative (a statement of fact) mood. The Greek verb ending -te is the verb ending for both imperative and indicative. In fact, Johannes P. Louw and Eugene A. Nida's Greek-English Lexicon even states that "It is also possible to understand zhlouvte in 1Cor 12:31 as being indicative and therefore translated as ‘you set your hearts on the more important gifts.’"

So, we need to look at the context to tell us if this verb is in the imperative or indicative mood. I would argue that the indicative mood makes much more sense with the subversive "yet I show you a more excellent way". In other words, Paul was stating the fact that they were zealously desiring the best gifts, which was causing divisions (chap. 12). Instead of desiring tongues and prophecy, they should have been desiring love, which in Paul's terms was "a more excellent way" (chap. 13).

The same is the case for 14:1. He tells them to pursue (diw¿kete - follow with haste) love. This verb should be translated as an imperative because of the context of chapter 13. Then the next verb "desire" (zhlouvte) should be translated indicative (statement of fact). Why? Because of the context of verse 14:12, which is a summary of 14:1-11.

"Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel." - 1 Cor. 14:12

Paul is stating that "since" they were zealous for spiritual gifts (indicative again), their overall concern should be for the edification of the church. There are no commands in scripture to seek spiritual gifts. Spiritual gifts are sovereignly given by the Holy Spirit and are not given to everyone in the same way (1 Cor. 12:30). That is why they are called gifts.

Reason 7 - The Scriptures Tell Us That The Revelatory Gifts Have Ceased

Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love. - 1 Corinthians 13:8-13

It is clear from this passage that tongues, prophecy, and words of knowledge will cease. The main issue is when they will cease. It is interesting to note that these three gifts are specifically called out as being temporary, in contrast to faith, hope and love. Why? I believe it is because they are revelatory.

Verse 10 tells us exactly when these gifts will cease, namely "when that which is perfect has come". The Greek word telios (perfect) means "brought to its end, finished; lacking nothing necessary to completeness; perfect" according to Thayer's Greek Lexicon and "having reached its end, finished, complete" according to the Liddell & Scott Greek lexicon. In other words, when the finishing of something has come, these gifts will cease. Here are some common interpretations of the word "perfect" (telios) in 1 Cor. 13:10.

maturity attained in our glorified state. This mixes metaphors (explained below).

the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ. However, Christ is never described in the neuter gender. This also mixes metaphors (explained below).

the completion of the canon.

I believe the 3rd interpretation is correct for the following reasons. Firstly, this interpretation better explains how prophecy, tongues and words of new knowledge are incomplete (see "For we know in part and we prophecy in part" in verse 9). They are incomplete because, at that period in history, God had not completed them. Secondly, the third interpretation fits perfectly with the two metaphors that Paul uses to explain how the church's knowledge will become complete. The two metaphors that Paul uses to explain the contrast between knowing or prophesying in part and complete knowledge are as follows:

knowledge of a child vs. knowledge of a man

seeing through a dim mirror vs. seeing face to face

It can not be emphasized enough that these metaphors must be taken as metaphors. The first mistake people make in this passage is to interpret the "face to face" as the 2nd coming of Christ. But this would be mixing the metaphor ("seeing in a mirror") with something real (seeing Jesus Christ at His 2nd coming). Paul would never mix a metaphor with reality. If the first part is metaphorical (seeing in a mirror) so must the 2nd part (seeing in face to face). So, Paul is telling us that the completion of the canon will be like looking at someone face to face, compared to looking through the dim reflection of a 1st century mirror.

Conclusion

This paper was intended to make a concise biblical defense of Cessationism (the teaching that the revelatory gifts have ceased). The bible teaches us that the scriptures are sufficient for both our salvation and sanctification. The apostle John has completed the revelation of Jesus Christ by finishing the book of Revelation. The scriptures are trustworthy, while our hearts are deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Therefore, instead of focusing on superstitious premonitions, we should focus our energy on obeying God's commandments as they are revealed in the scriptures. We can ignore those who say that God commands us to "earnestly desire the greater gifts" because these passages are not imperatives. And lastly, we should not seek to exercise the revelatory gifts, when the scriptures teach us that these gifts have ceased. I hope this paper has helped the reader understand that only God's Holy Word has the authority to bind man's conscience. May God use this to free those who are bound by superstition, error, and the doctrine of demons.


So, may be you have seen how the false prophets prophetize in our churches.....But we should stop their madness...if there is a madness.

Below I will show you what I said...read it...It is interesting...
I do not believe that the Spirit of God gives today tongues and prophecy gifts as he did it in the first christian churches....Why?
Because until today I have not heard anyone who is speaking in tongues...What I heard is barking and madness which could not be called
by the word tongue.

Listen to my conversations in the past:


Why I Don't Believe in 'Speaking in Tongues'...Continued ~
Posted : 4 Nov, 2011 05:38 AM


Lady,

you didnt get what we have discussed here.

You are talking about healing by the laying on of hands.

I prayed about a Muslim man laying on him my hands and God healed him.

There are many manifestations of the Holy Spirit who dwells in believers in the God Jesus.

That's why He gives us many gifts.

So many gifts that I even cannt count then here right now.

The tongues is just one of the them!!!!!

Re-red the Scripture to see it.

We all agree that it is possible that people speak today in the tongues. But we have not met such people yet. What we see in our Churches is just crazy barking. And this barking cannt be the language of the Holy Spirit. Check thread I posted for you a link where you can see such barking.

So, what I say: those who bark will be judged by God. Because they allowed themselves to be deceived by other 'christians' and they deceive other people. God does not bark because the Holy Spirit is not dog!!!!

God will start the judgment from the House of God.

One of my friends was among them for many years and even until today he cannt get free from madness which he saw there and did with them!!!

Do you want to see what demons make in the so-called christian churches?

Look at it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCeVZ6e2 ... 4CFFFA8FFF


bahira

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Is this of GOD,Ha-Satan,or man
Posted : 23 Jun, 2011 06:01 AM


One of my friends was among them for many years and even until today he cannt get free from madness which he saw there and did with them!!!

Do you want to see what demons make in the so-called christian churches?

Look at it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCeVZ6e2 ... 4CFFFA8FFF


phillipjohn


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Is this of GOD,Ha-Satan,or man
Posted : 23 Jun, 2011 07:44 AM


Bahira it is best you do not speak of things you know not of.


bahira

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Is this of GOD,Ha-Satan,or man
Posted : 23 Jun, 2011 07:56 AM


I am called by my God to speak about such madness in the churches to show them what demons do among them and reasons why they all will get to the lake of Fire after their Judgment!
bahira


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Is this of GOD,Ha-Satan,or man
Posted : 23 Jun, 2011 08:02 AM

There will be a great FALLING AWAY {THE GREAT APOSTASY} at the beginning of the Great Tribulation.

And we are able to see it in so-called christian churches and among fake-christians/so-called-christians/ self-born christians!

God does not call us to be unreasonable and mad! The christian faith is reasonable. There is NO madness in our God and there should be no madness in His sons!

Is this of GOD,Ha-Satan,or man
Posted : 23 Jun, 2011 08:13 AM


Hello Bahira your about to get mad.


bahira

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Is this of GOD,Ha-Satan,or man
Posted : 23 Jun, 2011 08:33 AM


But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy . . . having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!

— 2 Timothy 3:1–2, 5

An oxymoron basically is a figure of speech that combines contradictory terms, like "jumbo shrimp," "virtual reality," "friendly fire," and "found missing." Then there is one of my favorites: "fresh frozen." You might go into a restaurant and ask, "Is this fish fresh?"

"It is fresh frozen," the server will say.

"Well, is it fresh?" you will ask again.

"It is fresh frozen." Why don't they just tell you that it is old?

Then there are other classic oxymorons, like "exact estimate" and "airline food." We can add "genuine imitation" to that list as well.

The idea of genuine imitation is what Jesus conveys in a story known as the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares. Prior to Jesus' return, the devil effectively will flood the market with cheap imitations of the real thing. In fact, there will be so many genuine imitations that people will have a difficult time distinguishing the true from the false.

Why will the devil do this? Because it is effective. When it is revealed that a so-called Christian has been living a double life that is a complete contradiction of his or her profession of faith, some people might think, Well, that person is a hypocrite, so I am not going to be a Christian either. I am going to turn my back on this. They are all just a bunch of phonies. They fell for the devil's trap.

So according to Jesus' parable, there will be many in the last days who believe—and many who will fake belief. They will sit side by side in the same churches. They will sing the same songs. They will read the same Bibles. They will say the same things, to some degree. But in reality, these people are never really believers to begin with.




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Is this of GOD,Ha-Satan,or man
Posted : 23 Jun, 2011 08:50 AM

Why do people buy into these crazy teachings? Don't they know any better? The Bible tells us that in the last days, there will literally be a cult explosion—an ever-growing plethora of every belief system possible except the right one.

The Bible tells us that Satan will:

"Use every kind of wicked deception to fool those who are on their way to destruction because they refuse to believe the truth that would save them. So God will send great deception upon them, and they will believe all these lies. Then they will be condemned for not believing the truth and for enjoying the evil they do" (2 Thess. 2:10-12 NLT).

You know something is popular when you start seeing the knock-offs or imitations. The Devil is not very original. He has always seen the value of copying something, and, in so doing, confusing the issue. It seems that whenever there is a genuine work of the Spirit of God, Satan will have his imitation.

Consider Pharaoh's magicians, who were able to duplicate the miracles of Moses, such as the plague of blood in the Nile, and the plague of frogs (see Exodus 7-8).

Jesus told the parable of the wheat and the tares (Matthew 13:24-30). In the story, a man planted wheat in a field, but his enemy came at night and planted tares (or the darnel seed) in the same field. Initially, this tare looks just like the wheat. But as time goes by, it actually uproots the wheat and ultimately destroys it.

These days while God is working, the devil is planting his tares. When they are exposed, people say, "See—they are all hypocrites!" As Peter said, "Christ and his true way will be slandered" through this. Yet, the presence of so many imitations should actually prove that there is an Original.

Whatever we have as Christians, you can be sure that Satan has a counterfeit version:

He has a false gospel that tells you that you can make up the rules as you go.

Along with this false gospel comes a false hope. People think that because they have gone through a certain religious ritual, they are eternally secure.

He has a false messiah. Satan always wanted the top job in heaven, and he has never gotten over losing his once exalted position. In these last days, he will thrust his imitation messiah—the Antichrist— on the world scene.

Here we see Satan's unholy trinity:

Satan, imitating God (and, for a short time, having the worship of people worldwide)

The Antichrist masquerading as the Son

The false prophet impersonating the Holy Spirit

The Work of the Antichrist

The Antichrist will bring about a new religious system that will accommodate everyone. We are currently in the midst of a cult explosion. Whether it be Dianetics, EST, goddess worship, reincarnation, astrology, holistic healing, or any of a hundred consciousness raising techniques of our day—the modern age is on a search for some mystical divine unity. The times are ripe for a world religion.



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Is this of GOD,Ha-Satan,or man
Posted : 23 Jun, 2011 09:46 AM


Brothers,


we ALL listen to the words of God (seed of God) but WE determine what kind of soil our heart will be!!!

We all need to make a real commitment to God Jesus because He is going to judge not only what we say but our motives!


That's why if our mouth will bark like these people bark in this video I provided you above with, then God will judge not only your barking but WHY did you decide to bark!

Is it a genuine imitation of God?!

A barking god is NOT God of Israel. My Father does not bark. He is teaching me to be separated from the madness of the world! I am able to see and understand what is madness and how to live correct.

Why? Because if you are born of God, you KNOW God. And God is not a barking dog! And His HOLY sons are not barking as these fake-churches do! Knowing God, we do what our God says.

Those who bark are demons-possessed. If God is livening in you, demons cannt live in you.

If those who bark in you are NOT the HOLY God of Israel, then who bark in you are demons! It is the manifestation of demons! We can clearly see it on this video!

You should GET RID of your demons TURNING your heart to God, repenting and asking Him to forgive your sins and connections with demons. Then you will be FREE.


If your god is a dog then HOW are you going to get to the Kingdom of God of Israel?!

Get out of your dogs living inside of you and be a son not of demons but the HOLY God of Israel! His sons said:

But everything should be done (in the Church) decently and in orderly way. 1 Corinthians 14:40

If you do not know what is decently then you SHOULD know it. Because God is going to judge your actions and motives. There is NO MADNESS in this God!


ETcallhome

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Is this of GOD,Ha-Satan,or man
Posted : 24 Jun, 2011 08:05 AM

No, indeed Bahira, there is no way dogs can bark in people or any of this foolishness that you see many of these people doing, that is not scriptural or of God, everything God does has a spiritual message that leads to salvation, not entertainment or a showcase.

The point that I'm making with the passages I posted, and I think PJ, is making is saying is, that you can only pray for these people spiritually, and since you cannot reach these people physically to sit them down and teach them God's word of truth, there is nothing you can do. Therefore, if we know these things are not of God based on our knowledge of the spiritual things of God found in His holy Word, then all we can do is pray for them, and leave them alone.

There is so much foolishness that is going on that people claim to be of God, that is not of God according to His word and our knowledge, so I have learned to leave those things along that I cannot change, and change those things I can by using God's word to base my call for chance.

If its not in God's word, then I don't see how it can be of God. Because there is nothing new under the sun, and everything that God wants us to know is written in His word, including those things and the works of the Holy Spirit, these works do not change, becaue od doesn't change in character.

Many people use the passage of John chapter 14:verse 20, where Jesus says, truly, truly, I say to you, the person who believes in Me, the works that I do this person will do also, and GREATER works than these shall he do, because I go to my Father. They use this passage to justify their foolishness of out of control behavior as if the Holy Spirit is doing this work in them. And to say this so-called out of control laughter and all this other mess is of the Holy Spirit. But what they don't understand is that the greater works Jesus is speaking about is much in reference to what the apostles did in quantity and that Jesus is not speaking about stuff that has no spiritual meaning or value that bring salvation. The Bible tells us that Jesus did so many miracles and signs and wonders there is no book that could hold the details of what He did or His works, so we are only given a small account of those things that He did and that God wants us to know about. But I'm sure He did not have people going around barking like a dog, or laughing all over the place out of control in a silly manner, and still the person when they stop laughing they are still depressed or sad or whatever. The joy of the laugh is not about laughing out of control, but f comfort and peace in knowing...

Much hysteria goes on in the churches where false teachers and preachers have followings, that is not of God, just as in the day of the apostles, and the say its of God.

Therefore, as the passage says, if you cannot fit this by pointing these people to the right things in scripture and what God says, and correct them, then if its of man it will come to nothing. But if its of God and He is using this foolishness to somehow point to Himself for His glory, and will sooner or later make some changes by correcting all this craziness that is going on... then all we should do is denounce what we know is not of God and correct it as Paul and the apostles did during their work showing the proper and right things of God, or just leave it all alone until God Himself steps in and make changes.

For sure God is not going to allow such mess to continue in His name leading people astray, and many of these preachers of such cults are leading people astray with foolishness, and God has already stated that he is going to harshly punish these preachers who do such. So all we can do is pray and correct those who and where we can.

This is my point of the passage I posted...



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Is this of GOD,Ha-Satan,or man
Posted : 25 Jun, 2011 12:00 AM


usually those that oppose the truth as such on the video have not received the Holy Spirit but they receive dogs spirits/demons to bark and oppose the Truth!


bahira

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Is this of GOD,Ha-Satan,or man
Posted : 25 Jun, 2011 12:23 AM

Ella, I agree with you that God will punish such people perverting the Truth in their cults and deceiving people!

There is no madness in God and those who follow God, are the HOLY and small Remnant. The majority will perish..even among christians.

Because they chose their own truth which is OPPOSITE to the God’s Truth. Such people by being Christians are unbelievers and they all flow to the hell fire by millions!


God Jesus said about them:

You Will Know Them by Their Fruits

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

I Never Knew You

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Matthew 7




prophetic774

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Why I Don't Believe in 'Speaking in Tongues'.........
Posted : 1 Nov, 2011 05:33 PM

JUDE i AGREE WITH JAMES THAT TONGUES MUST BE SPOKEN IN ONE OF THE PRESENT FOREIGN LANGUAGES. i ALSO BELIEVE THAT TONGUES HAVE BEEN SATANICALLY MISUSED IN MOST OF THE CHARISMATIC CHURCHES. HOWEVER i BELIEVE THAT THE GREAT TRIBULATION SAINTS AND MOSES AND ELIJAH WILL SPEAK IN HUNDREDS OF FOREIGN LANGUAGES THAT THEY HAVE NOT LEARNED SINCE THE GOSPEL MUST BE BELIEVED IN ALL 6000 LANGUAGES{As per Revelation 7:9} AND GOD'S WORD HAS PRESENTLY BEEN ONLY translated in to about 2,000 languages.

Whether there are people who presently have the gift of speaking in tongues in a present foreign language I am not qualified to answer since I am not involved in the charismatic churches.

I also believe that charismatic people who claim to have a prophecy given to them by God in a dream or Revelation from Jesus are false prophets. Prophets who add or take words away from God's Prophetic Words have committed an unpardonable sin as per Revelation 22:18,19.

As you know Luther did not believe that James and Revelation were not part of God's Word and Calvin wrote an Institute on every book in the Bible except Revelation and also did not believe that Revelation was part of God's Word.

James is a member of the very Calvinistic Christian Reformed church and their preachers will never admit they don't believe that Revelation is not part of God's Word since it is now a part of all Protestant Bibles. But I have never heard a Christian Reformed preacher preach a sermon on Revelation and I went to the Christian Reformed College which is Calvin College. They will tell you that Revelation is a symbolic fairy tale that no one can really understand; although i agree with them that the dispensational pre-trib rapture fairy tale is Satanic.

Prayers of the Holy Spirit:

Brothers,


What do you think: can the Holy Spirit pray for Christians when they say that they pray daily to God in "tongues"?



My point is:

It is impossible.


When the early Church was baptized by the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, all spoke in FOREIGN languages/tongues..NOTE: They did NOT bark as we saw it in videos how the Kundalini spirit has Invaded the Church Masquerading as The Holy Spirit! LOL



Look at that again:




And it was NOT their wish to speak in these tongues but they were MOVED by the Holy Spirit.


Why? What is the purpose of these tongues? - (1) GOSPEL proclamation/powerful Witness to speak in tongues which understand other people/unbelievers who are present in Church for example!



(2) Hearing what the Spirit of God says and it is like the gift of profecy!



I said to Gary:

It is not like what you think when you try to "speak DAILY" to God in payers in "tongues"! Because it would be MADNESS! Why? Because in this case God the Spirit would need to talk to another God -the Father- ONLY WHEN you open your mouth! LOL

He speaks with the Father ANYTIME as this verse says:



Romans 8:26-27

Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit makes intercession for us with groanings which CANNOT be UTTERED. Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.



Summary: I believe in this and will NOT believe anything else except what God said in the Bible. Sorry.



Being deceived by "Christians" regarding these tongues, I prefer to be free from ANY deception and trust ONLY what God says in the Holy Bible.



Ok guys, what do you think about that?

Let's read this verse again:


Prophecy and Tongues

1Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. 3But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation.…


What cannot be understood, never can edify. I.e. NO advantage can be reaped from the most excellent discourses, if delivered in language such as the hearers cannot speak or understand.


"Speakes not unto men" because, as a rule, no one understands anything that he says.

Note also: "In the spirit". It is uncertain whether this means "in his own spirit," or "in the Spirit of God," i.e. as a result of inspiration.


"speaketh … unto God"—who alone understands all languages. It is as if he spoke to God. No one could understand him but God.


It is not likely that the Holy Spirit should, in the Church, suddenly inspire a man with the knowledge of some foreign language, which none in the church understood but himself and lead him to treat the mysteries of Christianity in that language, though none in the place could profit by his teaching!


Summary: Why do I discuss this issue? Because my God will PUNISH whose liars who deceived me and MANY other Christians in Church saying that we speak in tongues when in fact we do NOT speak!


God will punish those people through whom the Kundalini spirit has Invaded the Church Masquerading as The Holy Spirit!

MOREOVER, God will punish those liars who deceived themselves and give FALSE interpretations of their "tongues" in Church!

Those, who think that they pray in tongues if the tongues are NOT given anymore to Christians, deceived themselves already and they punished themselves already.

If they give FALSE interpretations of "their tongues" then God will HOLD them accountable too.


That is my point.


You all have to ponder and consider what is the tongue you believe you use daily and whether or not you deceived.

We have to be FREE from any deception.

..and whether or not you deceived other Christians....or was deceived by them....


You still believe that in this world we have tongues given as gifts?

But we also have satanic/demonic tongues which we clearly see in videos of the Kundalini spirit in the USA and Canada!



Their "tongues" even BARK...Let me remind you: our God- the Holy Spirit does NOT bark because He is NOT dog!



Dogs will be outside of the New Jerusalem!

We all have to be REASONABLE because there is NO madness in the God of Israel!

Now let's consider what is the strange fire.





A Foreign Fire



By Bahira Omar (me)



Behold, the name of the Lord comes from afar,

Burning with His anger,

And His burden is heavy;

His lips are full of indignation,

And His tongue like a devouring fire.

His breath is like an overflowing stream,

Which reaches up to the neck,

To sift the nations with the sieve of futility;

And there shall be a bridle in the jaws of the people,

Causing them to err.

Isaiah 30:27-28



My Jewish brother - a rabbi- Yaakov teaches Jews:



“In this week’s Torah portion of Shemini (Leviticus 9:1-11:47) we read about the deaths of Nadav & Avihu, sons of Aharon the High Priest.



Leviticus 10:2 - And a fire went forth from before the L-rd and consumed them [Nadav & Avihu], and they died before the L-rd.



There are many explanations given as to why they were punished so severely but the most obvious reason is stated in the verse prior.



Leviticus 10:1 - And they brought before the L-rd a foreign fire, which He had not commanded them.



Let us apply this passage to our daily lives and help gain some insight on our mission with respect to our own personal service of G-d.



Boastful people from all religions today “claim” to know what G-d wants. They make up all kinds of offerings which are not commanded.



One might normally think that going “above & beyond” for G-d is a good thing. This Torah portion teaches us that it’s not necessarily so.



G-d doesn’t want “fire” [passion] which is not commanded. Don’t bring your own personal offerings to the L-rd. Bring what he commands of you



By applying this concept to our daily lives, we must make sure that we bring what we are asked, not what we want to offer. Big difference.”



Leviticus 9

The Priestly Ministry Begins9 It came to pass on the eighth day that Moses called Aaron and his sons and the elders of Israel. 2 And he said to Aaron, “Take for yourself a young bull as a sin offering and a ram as a burnt offering, without blemish, and offer them before the Lord. 3 And to the children of Israel you shall speak, saying, ‘Take a kid of the goats as a sin offering, and a calf and a lamb, both of the first year, without blemish, as a burnt offering, 4 also a bull and a ram as peace offerings, to sacrifice before the Lord, and a grain offering mixed with oil; for today the Lord will appear to you.’”

5 So they brought what Moses commanded before the tabernacle of meeting. And all the congregation drew near and stood before the Lord. 6 Then Moses said, “This is the thing which the Lord commanded you to do, and the glory of the Lord will appear to you.” 7 And Moses said to Aaron, “Go to the altar, offer your sin offering and your burnt offering, and make atonement for yourself and for the people. Offer the offering of the people, and make atonement for them, as the Lord commanded.”

8 Aaron therefore went to the altar and killed the calf of the sin offering, which was for himself. 9 Then the sons of Aaron brought the blood to him. And he dipped his finger in the blood, put it on the horns of the altar, and poured the blood at the base of the altar. 10 But the fat, the kidneys, and the fatty lobe from the liver of the sin offering he burned on the altar, as the Lord had commanded Moses. 11 The flesh and the hide he burned with fire outside the camp.

12 And he killed the burnt offering; and Aaron’s sons presented to him the blood, which he sprinkled all around on the altar. 13 Then they presented the burnt offering to him, with its pieces and head, and he burned them on the altar. 14 And he washed the entrails and the legs, and burned them with the burnt offering on the altar.15 Then he brought the people’s offering, and took the goat, which was the sin offering for the people, and killed it and offered it for sin, like the first one. 16 And he brought the burnt offering and offered it according to the prescribed manner. 17 Then he brought the grain offering, took a handful of it, and burned it on the altar, besides the burnt sacrifice of the morning.18 He also killed the bull and the ram as sacrifices of peace offerings, which were for the people. And Aaron’s sons presented to him the blood, which he sprinkled all around on the altar, 19 and the fat from the bull and the ram—the fatty tail, what covers the entrails and the kidneys, and the fatty lobe attached to the liver; 20 and they put the fat on the breaasts. Then he burned the fat on the altar; 21 but the breaasts and the right thigh Aaron waved as a wave offering before the Lord, as Moses had commanded.

22 Then Aaron lifted his hand toward the people, blessed them, and came down from offering the sin offering, the burnt offering, and peace offerings. 23 And Moses and Aaron went into the tabernacle of meeting, and came out and blessed the people. Then the glory of the Lord appeared to all the people, 24 and fire came out from before the Lord and consumed the burnt offering and the fat on the altar. When all the people saw it, they shouted and fell on their faces.

Leviticus 10:1-7

The Profane Fire of Nadab and Abihu1 Then Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it, put incense on it, and offered profane fire before the Lord, which He had not commanded them. 2 So fire went out from the Lord and devoured them, and they died before the Lord. 3 And Moses said to Aaron, “This is what the Lord spoke, saying:

‘By those who come near Me

I must be regarded as holy;

And before all the people

I must be glorified.’”

So Aaron held his peace.4 Then Moses called Mishael and Elzaphan, the sons of Uzziel the uncle of Aaron, and said to them, “Come near, carry your brethren from before the sanctuary out of the camp.” 5 So they went near and carried them by their tunics out of the camp, as Moses had said.

6 And Moses said to Aaron, and to Eleazar and Ithamar, his sons, “Do not uncover your heads nor tear your clothes, lest you die, and wrath come upon all the people. But let your brethren, the whole house of Israel, bewail the burning which the Lord has kindled. 7 You shall not go out from the door of the tabernacle of meeting, lest you die, for the anointing oil of the Lord is upon you.” And they did according to the word of Moses



Ok, Christians, what are your insights on that? What is a Foreign Fire?

My sister said:



“Shalom Bahira, Shavua' tov!



Nadav and Avihu not only offered foreign fire, by doing this as priests they gave a bad example and could incite the Israelites to false worship!

I believe that only if our fleshly nature is sacrificed on Jahweh's altar, we won't offer foreign fires anymore. Because then our flesh (soul) has learned to submit to the guidance of God's Holy Spirit. Our fleshly nature is the root problem for so many sins, and God Himself has to do His redeeming, purifying work in us.



Romans 12:1 So then, my friends, because of God's great mercy to us I appeal to you: Offer yourselves as a living sacrifice to God, dedicated to his service and pleasing to him. This is the true worship that you should offer.”

“Leviticus 10:1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which He commanded them NOT.



Strange/foreign/not holy fire is everything we say or do which God has

NOT commanded us to do. God is a Holy God and in Exodus and Leviticus

He repeatedly and specifically told the Israelites to do everything as

"Jahweh had commanded Moses"

This is also what Yeshua/Jesus teaches us John 15: "I tell you the truth: the Son can do nothing on his own; he does only what he sees his Father doing. What the Father does, the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing."



I believe that Christianity and Judaism is full of strange/not holy fire. Christianity is very much polluted with pagan influences! And Judaism with man-made rules.



The Lord purifies us with His Holy fire...ough!! Sometimes that doesn't

feel nice and comfortable!!”



Shalom sister,

Let's analyze the Holy Torah again. Read: Leviticus 9,10.

Note HOW Moses offered offerings!18 He also killed the bull and the ram as sacrifices of peace offerings, which were for the people. And Aaron’s sons presented to him the blood, which he sprinkled all around on the altar, 19 and the fat from the bull and the ram—the fatty tail, what covers the entrails and the kidneys, and the fatty lobe attached to the liver; 20 and they put the fat on the breaasts. Then he burned the fat on the altar; 21 but the breaasts and the right thigh Aaron waved as a wave offering before the Lord, as Moses had commanded.

22 Then Aaron lifted his hand toward the people, blessed them, and came down from offering the sin offering, the burnt offering, and peace offerings. 23 And Moses and Aaron went into the tabernacle of meeting, and came out and blessed the people. Then the glory of the Lord appeared to all the people, 24 and fire came out from before the Lord and consumed the burnt offering and the fat on the altar. When all the people saw it, they shouted and fell on their faces.



Now look how Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron MADE a fake fire! They offered profane fire before the Lord!



A FAKE acts/fake "tongues"/ANY deception in our Church made on BEHALF of God is a FOREIGN FIRE too.

God is going to PUNISH such fake faith!

How?

“and (they) offered profane fire before the Lord, which He had not commanded them. 2 So fire went out from the Lord and devoured them, and they died before the Lord. 3 And Moses said to Aaron, “This is what the Lord spoke, saying:

‘By those who come near Me

I must be regarded as holy;

And before all the people

I must be glorified.’”



Brothers, NOTE what God says to you today:

'By those who come near Me

I must be regarded as holy;

And before all the people

I must be glorified.'



That is why ABANDON your sins in repentance TODAY to survive God's WRATH tomorrow which will devour soon those who offer to God FAKE faith and imitate God's FIRE by profane fire!



Remember, that the God of Israel is the Devouring FIRE!



One Christian man said:

“To be burning but not consumed, (ie) the burning bush, one must remain on the altar, to get of the altar the fire will go out.

The false or as the Old Testament describes it, strange fire, comes from the priest lighting the fire, rather than taking the fire that God Himself started, and man had to keep the fire burning.



Strange fire can be manipulation of the people by preachers claiming 'I feel the anointing', or the 'glory' is here, when if one opened their eyes they would see nothing. I have had people claim 'the glory' is here, and yet the children are not part of the service but rather are doing their own thing. I am convinced that if 'the glory' was present we would see the kids down at the front basking in the presence of God. Many times I think the church has adopted the mantra of the world, 'fake it till you make it'. Then we wonder why the people after a while lose interest, because they are tired of the manipulation and control.”



So, what is a Foreign Fire God mentioned in the Holy Torah?

That is worship of any false god. That is worship of the FALSE god in Islam!

ISLAM is a FOREIGN Fire!

It is a FALSE worship, FAKE worship.

Lets’ listen to the HOLY words of the God of Israel about it:



Isaiah 30

Futile Confidence in Egypt

30 “Woe to the rebellious children,” says the Lord,

“Who take counsel, but not of Me,

And who devise plans, but not of My Spirit,

That they may add sin to sin;

2 Who walk to go down to Egypt,

And have not asked My advice,

To strengthen themselves in the strength of Pharaoh,

And to trust in the shadow of Egypt!

3 Therefore the strength of Pharaoh

Shall be your shame,

And trust in the shadow of Egypt

Shall be your humiliation.

4 For his princes were at Zoan,

And his ambassadors came to Hanes.

5 They were all ashamed of a people who could not benefit them,

Or be help or benefit,

But a shame and also a reproach.”

6 The burden against the beasts of the South.

Through a land of trouble and anguish,

From which came the lioness and lion,

The viper and fiery flying serpent,

They will carry their riches on the backs of young donkeys,

And their treasures on the humps of camels,

To a people who shall not profit;

7 For the Egyptians shall help in vain and to no purpose.

Therefore I have called her

Rahab-Hem-Shebeth.

A Rebellious People

8 Now go, write it before them on a tablet,

And note it on a scroll,

That it may be for time to come,

Forever and ever:

9 That this is a rebellious people,

Lying children,

Children who will not hear the law of the Lord;

10 Who say to the seers, “Do not see,”

And to the prophets, “Do not prophesy to us right things;

Speak to us smooth things, prophesy deceits.

11 Get out of the way,

Turn aside from the path,

Cause the Holy One of Israel

To cease from before us.”

12 Therefore thus says the Holy One of Israel:

“Because you despise this word,

And trust in oppression and perversity,

And rely on them,

13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you

Like a breach ready to fall,

A bulge in a high wall,

Whose breaking comes suddenly, in an instant.

14 And He shall break it like the breaking of the potter’s vessel,

Which is broken in pieces;

He shall not spare.

So there shall not be found among its fragments

A shard to take fire from the hearth,

Or to take water from the cistern.”

15 For thus says the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel:

“In returning and rest you shall be saved;

In quietness and confidence shall be your strength.”

But you would not,

16 And you said, “No, for we will flee on horses”--

Therefore you shall flee!

And, “We will ride on swift horses”--

Therefore those who pursue you shall be swift!

17 One thousand shall flee at the threat of one,

At the threat of five you shall flee,

Till you are left as a pole on top of a mountain

And as a banner on a hill.

God Will Be Gracious

18 Therefore the Lord will wait, that He may be gracious to you;

And therefore He will be exalted, that He may have mercy on you.

For the Lord is a God of justice;

Blessed are all those who wait for Him.

19 For the people shall dwell in Zion at Jerusalem;

You shall weep no more.

He will be very gracious to you at the sound of your cry;

When He hears it, He will answer you.

20 And though the Lord gives you

The bread of adversity and the water of affliction,

Yet your teachers will not be moved into a corner anymore,

But your eyes shall see your teachers.

21 Your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying,

“This is the way, walk in it,”

Whenever you turn to the right hand

Or whenever you turn to the left.

22 You will also defile the covering of your images of silver,

And the ornament of your molded images of gold.

You will throw them away as an unclean thing;

You will say to them, “Get away!”

23 Then He will give the rain for your seed

With which you sow the ground,

And bread of the increase of the earth;

It will be fat and plentiful.

In that day your cattle will feed

In large pastures.

24 Likewise the oxen and the young donkeys that work the ground

Will eat cured fodder,

Which has been winnowed with the shovel and fan.

25 There will be on every high mountain

And on every high hill

Rivers and streams of waters,

In the day of the great slaughter,

When the towers fall.

26 Moreover the light of the moon will be as the light of the sun,

And the light of the sun will be sevenfold,

As the light of seven days,

In the day that the Lord binds up the bruise of His people

And heals the stroke of their wound.

Judgment

27 Behold, the name of the Lord comes from afar,

Burning with His anger,

And His burden is heavy;

His lips are full of indignation,

And His tongue like a devouring fire.

28 His breath is like an overflowing stream,

Which reaches up to the neck,

To sift the nations with the sieve of futility;

And there shall be a bridle in the jaws of the people,

Causing them to err.

29 You shall have a song

As in the night when a holy festival is kept,

And gladness of heart as when one goes with a flute,

To come into the mountain of the Lord,

To the Mighty One of Israel.

30 The Lord will cause His glorious voice to be heard,

And show the descent of His arm,

With the indignation of His anger

And the flame of a devouring fire,

With scattering, tempest, and hailstones.

31 For through the voice of the Lord

Assyria will be beaten down,

As He strikes with the rod.

32 And in every place where the staff of punishment passes,

Which the Lord lays on him,

It will be with tambourines and harps;

And in battles of brandishing He will fight with it.

33 For Tophet was established of old,

Yes, for the king it is prepared.

He has made it deep and large;

Its pyre is fire with much wood;

The breath of the Lord, like a stream of brimstone,

Kindles it.



What is Tophet (verse 33)?“For Tophet is ordained” - Tophet is a valley very near to Jerusalem, to the southeast, called also the valley of Hinnom or Gehenna -"the Gehenna of everlasting fire." The word "Gehenna" is used for hell. Gehennay was appointed as the place of torment for wicked men. The Targum (paraphrases, explanations, and expansions of the Jewish scriptures by rabbis) mentions that too, "for hell is ordained from the worlds (or before the worlds), because of their sins.'' The Targum says also,

"the King of worlds (of all worlds) prepared it''

Let’s read how He prepared that in the next clause:“he hath made it deep and large; to hold the whole army alive, and to bury them when dead; and so hell is large and deep enough to hold Satan and all his angels, antichrist and all his followers; yea, all the wicked that have been from the beginning of the world, and will be to the end of it”

The Targum says,

"the word of the Lord, like an overflowing torrent of brimstone, shall kindle it''. In the Lake of Fire, the wrath of God will be like a continual stream of brimstone, keeping up the fire of it, so that it shall ever burn, and never be quenched. It is called a Lake burning with fire and brimstone; into which Satan, the Beast/the Anti-Christ, and false prophet, and the worshippers of Antichrist, Muslims, unbelievers and sinners will be cast:



9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb (the Son of God). 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation: 14:9-12



Muslims, ABANDON your FALSE religion Islam and believe in the Son of God because SOON:

“The Lord will cause His glorious voice to be heard,

And show the descent of His arm,

With the indignation of His anger

And the flame of a devouring fire”.

Isaiah 30:30