Does this verse refute pre-trib rapture?

Straightshot said:

Total conjecture on your part .... the angels that have sinned and followed Satan are not just of those that you say procreated with human women before the flood
There are also powers and principalities of the air that are still free and at Satan's disposal

Click to expand...

The angels who have participated to the events described in Genesis 6:1-4 are the only Angels who are in the bottomless pit with Abbadon their chief angels Revelation 9...the other who have followed Satan in his rebellion and have not participated in Genesis 6:1-4 are still free.

Straightshot said:

... but this is beside the point, angels cannot procreate with human women
The procreation of half angel/half human creatures have never existed, do not exist, and never will exist

There is nothing in scripture that supports this aberrant teaching
So the entire ruse that you follow is bogus

Click to expand...

Angels described in the Bible always appears like human males wearing clothes ....maybe because they have 'something' to hide.Angels never appear to humans like the classic description as having wings.

Straightshot said:

The men of Genesis 6:4 were human and so were their off spring
.... men of renown, of great civil stature and earthly wealth, corrupted with earthly gain, those who considered themselves above any moral law .... we have these today

.... none of the Genesis account were the product of a fallen angel and a human woman

Click to expand...

The Sons of God mentioned in Genesis 6:1-4....are angels ... their children became 'men' of renown....like Goliath the Giant mentioned in the Bible.

Here an example...
There were no humans at the time that God set the foundation of the Earth .
God in Job 38:7 say that the sons of God shouted of joy...do you know why the angels shouted of Joy ?

Really you need to do some Bible reading start with Job 38 .

Job 38:1-6

6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Straightshot said:

You say that the descendants of Cain who supposedly escaped the flood on the arc became the Kenites that are the "Jews" of today who are demonic corruptions of fallen angels

And you have picked this abbarent heresy up from teachers like Arnold Murray .... exactly what he presents in his serpent seed dogma

This teaching is a corruption from the devil himself

Click to expand...

The point about the Kenites is about the FAKE JEWS that Jesus Himself identified as being descendants of Cain [the Kenites]

Not about the true Jews from Abraham lineage.....

I say the same thing that Jesus said in John 8 about the fake Jews The scribes and High Priest Pharisees in Jerusalem who have caused that Jesus was crucify] who pretended to be of Abraham seed but that in fact Jesus identified these fake Jews as being descendants of Cain.

1 Chronicles 2:55
And the families of the scribes which dwelt at Jabez; the Tirathites, the Shimeathites, and Suchathites. These are the Kenites that came of Hemath, the father of the house of Rechab.

Riberra said:

SEED is Strong's words number H2233
The KJV translates Strongs H2233 in the following manner: seed (221x), child (2x), carnally (with H7902) (2x), carnally (1x), fruitful (1x), seedtime (1x), sowing time (1x).

Outline of Biblical Usage

seed, sowing, offspring

a sowing

seed

sperm virile

offspring, descendants, posterity, children

of moral quality


a practitioner of righteousness (fig.)

sowing time (by meton)

Source
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=H2233&t=KJV


Genesis 3:15
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between THY SEED and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Click to expand...

You have to understand the whole concept

Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
1Jn_3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

The children of Satan are those who do his bidding. Just as the children of God are those who do His bidding. But neither are the biological father. God has only One Son, Jesus, yet we are all His children. We give up that designation when we choose to disobey Him.

Correct rendering above

One is either following Jesus Christ .... or following Satan

Genesis 3:15 is not about any procreation relationship

The devil has no sexually created children

.... neither does Jesus Christ

The idea of the "serpent seed", Kenites, fake Jews nonsense is absurd

This reprobate talking is a concoction of antisemitism against the Lord's nation of Israel .... one suggested and crafted by Satan himself

The Lord Himself is a "Jew" by His humanity and still is [Revelation 5;5]

And those who call His people "fake" are going to find out how horribly wrong they are on this matter

Those who hold replacement theology for the purpose of hijacking Israel's position for themselves are on dangerous ground

Riberra said:

Angels described in the Bible always appears like human males wearing clothes ....maybe because they have 'something' to hide.Angels never appear to humans like the classic description as having wings.

Click to expand...

Yah--they have something to hide alright! If they appear as they really are, we'd be shaking in our boots and in dire need of a change of underwear!!

Dan 10:5 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:
Dan 10:6 His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.
Dan 10:7 And I Daniel alone saw the vision: for the men that were with me saw not the vision; but a great quaking fell upon them, so that they fled to hide themselves.
Dan 10:8 Therefore I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength.

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Rev_22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Num 22:31 Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face.
Jos 5:14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?
1Ch_21:16 And David lifted up his eyes, and saw the angel of the LORD stand between the earth and the heaven, having a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders of Israel, who were clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces.
Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.
Dan 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

They appear as humans, in our garb to hide their "glory." For our sake, because pee and poop are messy and stink!!

Straightshot said:

The seed spoken of has nothing to do with human procreation but of those who are Christ's and those who are of the devil

The idea that fallen angels and human women have sex and produce offspring is not only ridiculous, but a satanic diversion

Click to expand...

Straightshot said:

The seed spoken of has nothing to do with human procreation but of those who are Christ's and those who are of the devil

So all of the seed of Eve are Christ’s? Surely you do not believe that.

Gen. 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The idea that fallen angels and human women have sex and produce offspring is not only ridiculous, but a satanic diversion

Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

You are going to have a tough time proving from scripture these sons of God were not created beings as all other OT references to sons of God clearly are.

Any error is a satanic diverson, be sure you can prove your point of view from scripture before you call what you disagree with satanic.

Postvieww said:

Straightshot said:

The seed spoken of has nothing to do with human procreation but of those who are Christ's and those who are of the devil

So all of the seed of Eve are Christ’s? Surely you do not believe that.

Gen. 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The idea that fallen angels and human women have sex and produce offspring is not only ridiculous, but a satanic diversion

Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

You are going to have a tough time proving from scripture these sons of God were not created beings as all other OT references to sons of God clearly are.

Any error is a satanic diverson, be sure you can prove it from scripture before you call it satanic.

Click to expand...

OK---I'll lay this out again, but it is long so I will break it up into sections.
Genesis 6:1
and it came to pass that the human began to increase in number upon the face of the ground, and daughters were brought forth for them,
Genesis 6:2
and the sons of the Elohiym saw the daughters of the human, that they were functional, and took for them women from all which they chose,
Genesis 6:4
the Nephilim existed in the land in those days and also afterward, when the sons of the Elohiym came to the daughters of the human, and they brought forth children for them, they are the courageous ones which are from a distant time, men of the title,
Genesis 6:4
the Nephilim existed in the land in those days and also afterward, when the sons of the Elohiym came to the daughters of the human, and they brought forth children for them, they are the courageous ones which are from a distant time, men of the title,
אדם
a-dam
(masc.) HUMAN: Of, relating to, or characteristic of man. The first man. All of mankind as the descendants of the first man. Strong's #: 120
שם
sheym
(masc.) TITLE: A word given to an individual or place denoting its character. The character of an individual or place. Strong's #: 8034, 8036
TITLE

The following is an excerpt from the book Ancient Hebrew Dictionary.
When we see a name, such as "King David" we see the word "King" as a title and "David" as a name. In our western mind a title describes a character trait while a name is simply an identifier. In the Hebrew language there is no such distinction between names and titles. Both words, King and David, are descriptions of character traits. The Hebrew word melekh (king) is "one who reigns," while daviyd (David) is "one who is loved". Both of these words are titles, describing the character of David. It is also common to identify the word "Elohiym" (Elohiym) as a title and YHWH (Yahweh) as a name. What we do not realize is that both of these are character traits. YHWH is both a word and title meaning "one who exists" and Elohiym is a word and a title meaning "one who has power and authority". The Hebrew word "shem" more literally means "character". When the Bible speaks of taking Elohiym's name to the nations, he is not speaking about the name itself but his character. When we are commanded to not take Elohiym's name in vain, this literally means not to represent his character in a false manner. This is similar to our expression, "have a good name," which is not about the name itself but the character of the one with that name.
FUNCTIONAL
The following is an excerpt from the Ancient Hebrew Research Center Website.
What does "good" mean? The first use of this word is in Genesis chapter one where calls his handiwork "good". It should always be remembered that the Hebrews often relate descriptions to functionality. The word tov would best be translated with the word "functional". When looked at his handiwork he did not see that it was "good", he saw that it was functional, kind of like a well oiled and tuned machine. In contrast to this word is the Hebrew word "ra". These two words, tov and ra are used for the tree of the knowledge of "good" and "evil". While "ra" is often translated as evil it is best translated as "dysfunctional".

Elohiym

The following is an excerpt from the book The Living Words.
If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the judges, to see whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour's goods.Exodus 22:8 (KJV)
A judge is one who possesses great "power" and "authority." The Hebrew word behind the word "judges" in the passage above is אל הים elohiym [H:430], the plural form of the word אל וה elo’ah [H:433]. You may notice the first two letters of this word is the word אל el [H:410], meaning "mighty one," which we discussed in the last section. Because the word elo’ah is derived from el, they are very similar in meaning.
The word elo’ah, "one of power and authority," can also be applied to God or any other god.
Oh that I might have my request; and that God (elo’ah) would grant me the thing that I long for! Job 6:8 (KJV)
Then shall he sweep by as a wind, and shall pass over, and be guilty, even he whose might is his god (elo’ah). Habakkuk 1:11 (ASV)
The word אל הים elohiym [H:430], the plural form of אל וה elo’ah [H:433], is frequently used as a proper name for Yahweh, the creator of heaven and earth.
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth in their filling, in the day that Yahweh Elohiym made the earth and the heavens.Genesis 2:4
The "power and authority" of Yahweh can be, and is, passed on to others as we see in the following verse.
And Yahweh said unto Moses, "See, I have given you Elohiym for Pharaoh: and Aaron your brother will be your prophet." Exodus 7:1
What does Yahweh mean by "See I have given you"? Is there something physical about Moses that Yahweh gave to him which could have been "seen" showing his "power and authority"? In our discussion of the word אל el [H:410], we learned this word represented horns of power and the staff of authority. Did Moses also have these symbols?
And Yahweh said to [Moses], "What is this in your hand?" And he said, "A staff." And he said, "Cast it down to the ground" and he cast it down to the ground and it became a serpent and Moses fled from before it. Exodus 4:2,3
Yahweh took an ordinary staff of a shepherd, turned it into an instrument of power and authority and gave it to Moses to do great miracles. We do know Moses did carry a staff representing his authority, but what about the horns?
And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of the testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses knew not that the skin of his face shone by reason of his speaking with him. And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw
Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.Exodus 34:29,30 (ASV)
In this verse, we find there was a physical change in Moses which created fear in the people. Was it just a light coming off him that generated this fear? No—as we shall see, the above translation "skin of his face shone," is a poor translation of the Hebrew. The Hebrew word translated as "shone" is קרן qaran [7160], which literally means "to have horns."
Interestingly, many paintings and sculptures of Moses depict him with horns such as in Michelangelo’s sculpture of Moses.
It has been speculated the "horns" on Moses’ face are "rays" of light that shone from his face, hence the translation we read in all English Bibles. However, there are other Hebrew words meaning "to shine" and if that was what the author had intended, he would have used one of those. Instead, he deliberately chose to use the word qaran to show Moses was indeed one of power and authority. This is an example of my reasons for desiring a "mechanical" and "literal" translation of the Hebrew Bible, so the reader can read the text without the translators’ bias being interjected into the text.
In my book His Name is One I go into detail about the different names of God. In the next section, I am taking an excerpt from that book.
The following is an excerpt from the book Ancient Hebrew Dictionary.
The plural form of elo'ah, meaning power, is elohiym and is often translated as Elohiym. While English plurals only identify quantity, as in more than one, the Hebrew plural can identify quantity as well as quality. Something that is of great size or stature can be written in the plural form. Elohiym is the one of great strength and authority.

Straightshot said:

Correct rendering above

One is either following Jesus Christ .... or following Satan

Genesis 3:15 is not about any procreation relationship

The devil has no sexually created children

.... neither does Jesus Christ

The idea of the "serpent seed", Kenites, fake Jews nonsense is absurd

This reprobate talking is a concoction of antisemitism against the Lord's nation of Israel .... one suggested and crafted by Satan himself

The Lord Himself is a "Jew" by His humanity and still is [Revelation 5;5]

And those who call His people "fake" are going to find out how horribly wrong they are on this matter

Those who hold replacement theology for the purpose of hijacking Israel's position for themselves are on dangerous ground

Click to expand...

What is your explanation for the giants and what is the reason you believe God wanted them systematically wiped out men, women and children.

The word "nephilim" as used in Gen 6:4 and Num 13:33 is simply an anglocizing of the Hebrew word nephiyl. If it were to be translated it would be simply "the fallen".
this opens up a whole new hermeneutical question about how then should we interpret these people described both before the flood in Gen 6 as "the fallen" and then again after the flood when the spies brought back their report about the promised land being filled with "the fallen" who are also described as giants.
Different interpretations have described the nephilim as fallen angels, others as fallen men, some have categorized only the sons of Cain as the nephilim in Gen 6, but then how are they reappearing after the flood? or if it is fallen angels, do we see the earth invaded by fallen angels not once but twice?
I think the most consistent view of the Nephilim would consist of those who have fallen away from faith and reliance upon God. Those who think that they can achieve greatness absent from God's presence. Here is Clarke's reference...
Genesis 6:4
[There were giants in the earth] npiliym , from naaphal , "he fell." Those who had apostatized or fallen from the true religion. The Septuagint translate the original word by gigantes, which literally signifies earth-born, and which we, following them, term giants, without having any reference to the meaning of the word, which we generally conceive to signify persons of enormous stature. But the word when properly understood makes a very just disinction between the sons of men and the sons of God; those were the nephilim , the fallen earth-born men, with the animal and devilish mind. These were the sons of God, who were born from above, children of the kingdom, because children of God. Hence, we may suppose originated the different appellatives given to sinners and saints, the former were termed gigantes (Greek), "earth-born", and the latter, hagioi , i.e. saints, persons not of the earth, or separated from the earth.
[The same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.] giboriym , which we render "mighty men", signifies properly conquerors, heroes, from gaabar , "he prevailed, was victorious." and °ansheey hashem , "men of the name," anthroopoi onomastoi , Septuagint; the same as we render men of renown, renominati, twice named, as the word implies, having one name which they derived from their fathers, and another which they acquired by their daring exploits and enterprises.
It may be necessary to remark here that our translators have rendered seven different Hebrew words by the one term giants, viz., nephilim. gibborim, enachim, rephaim, emim, and zamzummim; by which appellatives are probably meant in general persons of great knowledge, piety, courage, wickedness, etc., and not men of enormous stature, as is generally conjectured. (from Adam Clarke's Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1996, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
http://hermeneutics.stackexchange.c...english-equivalent-for-nephilim-of-genesis-64

there were men of authority, of importance, some Jewish sites say that possibly these were high ranking priests, rather than choosing godly women, fell and went after ungodly women. These men, probably because of the importance of their fathers, also became men of authority and power--some were mighty hunters and warriors.
This should come as no surprise as Godly men today, men of high standing, have fallen to less than Godly women--that is all over the news, well known preachers with large followings--down to just good Christian men who will choose the beautiful nymphet over the pious but less alluring female.
As for the reason Noah and his family were saved--it has nothing to do with genetics--the reason the earth was destroyed is plainly stated as the earth was totally devastated with violence---we are definitely there. Noah walked with God and was the only one that was left as a God loving man.
As for giants----no one knows how tall Adam and Eve were---nothing is stated. They are pictured as normal height by today's standards or shorter---why? Why could they not have been 7-10-12 feet tall--if you're going to speculate--they were created perfect, why not tall? That would not have been tall for God. The gene was passed down. As with today we have giants-very tall people, some because of malfunctioning glands, but most perfectly normal yet very tall---we also have very short people--as in the differences between the very tall Massai tribe and the very short pygmies. Certain genes get passed down and can cluster and form groups, before and after the flood. The land also was at first created perfect--after the fall it all changed. However, till the flood everything was in far better condition than today, great weather, great soil--large, abundant crops--those traits also fostered and cultivated both before and after the flood. So there should be no surprise there either that there were pockets of very tall people, families, villages, cities, where the land also had been cultivated with better than average results. Even today---just look up on Alaska and see the kind of produce this place can provide--it is astounding. There is no need to go off into fantasy land with the word of God.
What makes people even think that angels were created to procreate?--Only males are ever mentioned. Why would God make only one sex and give them sexual abilities to procreate without there being any way for them to do so? Nothing anywhere is stated that angels were given the directive to be fruitful and multiply---God would have had to recreate the fallen angels to give them that ability and why would He??
The bible states some angels have wings--some 4 some 6--there is no mention of offspring having wings. That angels can appear as men is stated-that does not make them into actual, physical males able to procreate--appearance is one thing, actual working internal physical make up, a whole other thing. The possession by demons of humans--and even animals is documented--they were possessed--they did not become that thing--the demons sent into the people did not become those people, just controlled their minds the demons sent into the pigs did not become pigs. That a possesed man would then be able to imoregnate a woman with the genetic code of a fallen angel is not even in the realm of possibility.
The preflood people had immense brain capsbilities I do not doubt, God did not create morons, Adam and Eve had perfectly functioning brains capable of acquiring and storing vast amounts of knowledge, far greater than we have today. Adam was no idiot, he was able to name all the animals. These people had hundreds of years to perfect their knowledge and abilities--just think of what can be accomplished in a few short years today by one individual. It is not too unreal to state their knowledge was above ours today and we are just getting to the place where they were---which includes scientific discoveries. That they could have been doing genetic tinkering like is being done today is more than probable.

mmksparbud said:

OK---I'll lay this out again, but it is long so I will break it up into sections.
Genesis 6:1
and it came to pass that the human began to increase in number upon the face of the ground, and daughters were brought forth for them,
Genesis 6:2
and the sons of the Elohiym saw the daughters of the human, that they were functional, and took for them women from all which they chose,
Genesis 6:4
the Nephilim existed in the land in those days and also afterward, when the sons of the Elohiym came to the daughters of the human, and they brought forth children for them, they are the courageous ones which are from a distant time, men of the title,
Genesis 6:4
the Nephilim existed in the land in those days and also afterward, when the sons of the Elohiym came to the daughters of the human, and they brought forth children for them, they are the courageous ones which are from a distant time, men of the title,
אדם
a-dam
(masc.) HUMAN: Of, relating to, or characteristic of man. The first man. All of mankind as the descendants of the first man. Strong's #: 120
שם
sheym
(masc.) TITLE: A word given to an individual or place denoting its character. The character of an individual or place. Strong's #: 8034, 8036
TITLE

The following is an excerpt from the book Ancient Hebrew Dictionary.
When we see a name, such as "King David" we see the word "King" as a title and "David" as a name. In our western mind a title describes a character trait while a name is simply an identifier. In the Hebrew language there is no such distinction between names and titles. Both words, King and David, are descriptions of character traits. The Hebrew word melekh (king) is "one who reigns," while daviyd (David) is "one who is loved". Both of these words are titles, describing the character of David. It is also common to identify the word "Elohiym" (Elohiym) as a title and YHWH (Yahweh) as a name. What we do not realize is that both of these are character traits. YHWH is both a word and title meaning "one who exists" and Elohiym is a word and a title meaning "one who has power and authority". The Hebrew word "shem" more literally means "character". When the Bible speaks of taking Elohiym's name to the nations, he is not speaking about the name itself but his character. When we are commanded to not take Elohiym's name in vain, this literally means not to represent his character in a false manner. This is similar to our expression, "have a good name," which is not about the name itself but the character of the one with that name.
FUNCTIONAL
The following is an excerpt from the Ancient Hebrew Research Center Website.
What does "good" mean? The first use of this word is in Genesis chapter one where calls his handiwork "good". It should always be remembered that the Hebrews often relate descriptions to functionality. The word tov would best be translated with the word "functional". When looked at his handiwork he did not see that it was "good", he saw that it was functional, kind of like a well oiled and tuned machine. In contrast to this word is the Hebrew word "ra". These two words, tov and ra are used for the tree of the knowledge of "good" and "evil". While "ra" is often translated as evil it is best translated as "dysfunctional".

Click to expand...

Can you let scripture interpret scripture and come to the same conclusion? The question was about all other references to the sons of God in the OT that are clearly created beings. I am totally aware many commentaries and seminaries teach what you have presented. Your lengthy presentation can try to explain away sons of God in in this one passage but the context of other passages is a little tougher to explain away. Then we have those pesky tall people running around in the OT God want wanted wiped out, for what reason? Really do you believe He committed genocide against men women and children because of sin? Were those really tall people the only ones who sinned? Some things just do not add up here.

"What is your explanation for the giants and what is the reason you believe God wanted them systematically wiped out men, women and children"

I have answered this before, but will again

The "giants' were humans of renown and in positions of power and authority and at the same time against the Lord .... we have these today

And their offspring are not combinations of some sort of satanic demon or a fallen angel

Those of today think they are above the law just the same

What is your point in trying to prove that satanic/human combinations existed before the flood and even today?

The Lord destroyed all human life on the earth except for Noah and his immediate family .... because there were no other humans that walked with Him, but were totally corrupted

.... something like today, His next worldwide judgment is coming [Matthew 24:36-39]

Postvieww said:

Can you let scripture interpret scripture and come to the same conclusion? The question was about all other references to the sons of God in the OT that are clearly created beings. I am totally aware many commentaries and seminaries teach what you have presented. Your lengthy presentation can try to explain away sons of God in in this one passage but the context of other passages is a little tougher to explain away. Then we have those pesky tall people running around in the OT God want wanted wiped out, for what reason? Really do you believe He committed genocide against men women and children because of sin? Were those really tall people the only ones who sinned? Some things just do not add up here.

Click to expand...

Yah, I know it's lengthy, and that you probably didn't read it, or you wouldn't be asking the same question.

Straightshot said:

"What is your explanation for the giants and what is the reason you believe God wanted them systematically wiped out men, women and children"

I have answered this before, but will again

The "giants' were humans of renown and in positions of power and authority and at the same time against the Lord .... we have these today

And their offspring are not combinations of some sort of satanic demon or a fallen angel

Those of today think they are above the law just the same

What is your point in trying to prove that satanic/human combinations existed before the flood and even today?

The Lord destroyed all human life on the earth except for Noah and his immediate family .... because there were no other humans that walked with Him, but were totally corrupted

.... something like today, His next worldwide judgment is coming [Matthew 24:36-39]

Click to expand...

Straightshot said:

I have answered this before, but will again


The "giants' were humans of renown and in positions of power and authority and at the same time against the Lord .... we have these today

That does not account for the descriptions in scripture that are clearly referring to very tall people.

And their offspring are not combinations of some sort of satanic demon or a fallen angel

If you consider all of the supernatural events in scripture that is really not that absurd.


Waters parting, sun stopping in the sky, sticks turning into snakes, walking on water, dead raised to life, virgin birth, being caught up into the third heaven, and on and on. The scriptures are full of supernatural events both from God and satan some we don’t like to think about.


I once had this discussion with a Freewill Baptist preacher and he said to me “I cannot with scripture disprove anything you have said but I choose not to believe it” For me that was extremely honest and sums up this point of contention very well.

Those of today think they are above the law just the same

So by your definition would HC be a giant. Ha Ha.

What is your point in trying to prove that satanic/human combinations existed before the flood and even today?

I am just trying to stick with what I believe to be the truth of scripture not the teachings of man. Sometimes that is not popular as in this case.

The Lord destroyed all human life on the earth except for Noah and his immediate family .... because there were no other humans that walked with Him, but were totally corrupted

I submit to you that the same reason the Lord sent flood was the same reason He wanted those very tall people eradicated.

.... something like today, His next worldwide judgment is coming [Matthew 24:36-39]

Yes but that is based on accepting or rejecting Christ not whether or not one is in one of the very tall people clans in scripture that were destroyed.

mmksparbud said:

Yah, I know it's lengthy, and that you probably didn't read it, or you wouldn't be asking the same question.

Click to expand...

Yes, I did read it, all of it. I just do not agree with the conclusion arrived at.

Postvieww said:

That does not account for the descriptions in scripture that are clearly referring to very tall people.

Click to expand...

So because there were tall people, they have to be the offspring of devils??One of my brothers is 6' 5, the other is 6'4--so, they have fallen angel DNA in them? What about the Massai in Africa---some are close to 8'--offspring of Satan?----what about pygmies---or other short people---short demons? You do not want to believe that Adam and Eve could have been very tall themselves and had tall children---why is that? It just says there were giants in those days. Doesn't say, there were some giants, or a few giants--there were giants in those days. You got dinosaurs 50 ' tall but can't possibly accept that Adam and Eve and their offspring were all giants compared to us? They lived to an impossible 800-900 years and more, but couldn't possibly be giants themselves??

Postvieww said:

I submit to you that the same reason the Lord sent flood was the same reason He wanted those very tall people eradicated.

Click to expand...

So God destroys a whole planet because there were some tall people?? Not because, as scripture says they were violent and evil? You say you want to go by scripture, but you reject where God states why He is destroying the earth.

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen_6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
Gen_6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Where does scripture say that God destroyed them because they were tall?
It says He repents creating man--doesn't say He repents creating tall angels that had sex with women, doesn't say He is sorry there are tall people. It says they were evil--doesn't say He is wiping them out for being tall.

"That does not account for the descriptions in scripture that are clearly referring to very tall people."


You are being selective with your definition of "Giants"

In fact Genesis 6 tells a very different story in detail and says nothing about "tall" people as the main focus

Again, I see no point of you argument .... except to argue

I could say so what

It is like your idea that Michael the archangel is the "restrainer" because you are trying to refute the Lord's pre-tribulation call

Your motive here is to discredit those who tell that the related scripture is tied to the "rapture", when it is not in the first place

Then you willfully ignore, or do not understand, the scriptures that do support the Lord's intent hands down

So, I am not really sure of your motives on these matters

mmksparbud said:

So because there were tall people, they have to be the offspring of devils??One of my brothers is 6' 5, the other is 6'4--so, they have fallen angel DNA in them? What about the Massai in Africa---some are close to 8'--offspring of Satan?----what about pygmies---or other short people---short demons? You do not want to believe that Adam and Eve could have been very tall themselves and had tall children---why is that? It just says there were giants in those days. Doesn't say, there were some giants, or a few giants--there were giants in those days. You got dinosaurs 50 ' tall but can't possibly accept that Adam and Eve and their offspring were all giants compared to us? They lived to an impossible 800-900 years and more, but couldn't possibly be giants themselves??



So God destroys a whole planet because there were some tall people?? Not because, as scripture says they were violent and evil? You say you want to go by scripture, but you reject where God states why He is destroying the earth.

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen_6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
Gen_6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Where does scripture say that God destroyed them because they were tall?
It says He repents creating man--doesn't say He repents creating tall angels that had sex with women, doesn't say He is sorry there are tall people. It says they were evil--doesn't say He is wiping them out for being tall.

Click to expand...

My mistake for assuming you understood my position without spelling it out for you in detail again on this thread.


Gen_6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.


I believe corrupt here refers back to Genesis 6:2-4. Corrupt as in corrupt DNA. Based on Genesis 6:9


Noah was not a “perfect” as in sinless man but he was perfect in that his bloodline had not been corrupted by the events of Gen 6: 2-4.


I base that on the fact the scripture says he was perfect in his generations and then lists his generations in verse 10, his three sons, his offspring. So in context his generations were his bloodline not the time in which he lived.


I do base my beliefs on scripture, you may disagree but that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.


They were also violent sinful, wicked, evil and any other adjective you would care to use but the main reason for their destruction IMO based on my understanding of the scripture was that the pure bloodline from which our Savior was to come was nearly eradicated except for Noah who was perfect in his generations.


I hope that clears up my position.

mmksparbud said:

You have to understand the whole concept

Genesis 3:15
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between THY SEED and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.


Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
1Jn_3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

The children of Satan are those who do his bidding. Just as the children of God are those who do His bidding. But neither are the biological father. God has only One Son, Jesus, yet we are all His children. We give up that designation when we choose to disobey Him.

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Let suppose the whole thing have only a spiritual meaning and that Satan in the Garden have only 'spiritually evilly' influenced Cain to kill his twin brother Abel thus becoming the first murderer....Jesus in John 8 explicitly declare that the Scribes and High Priest Pharisees talking with him are the descendants of Cain the first murderer ...Jesus goes on to say that they seek to kill him...and effectively that is because of the Scribes and High Priests Pharisees descendants of Cain's offspring that Jesus was crucified fulfilling what God said in Genesis 3:15. Jesus' heels where bruised when Jesus was crucified on the Cross because of the direct descendants of Cain who was the first murderer .

Genesis 3:15
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between THY SEED and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

One of the wife of the three sons of Noah on the Ark was a descendant of Cain ...that was needed to fulling God's own words .That is not Satan himself who have bruised Jesus' heels on the cross....but because of the descendants of Cain [the Scribes and High Priests Pharisees ]who have caused this to happen .

Postvieww said:

My mistake for assuming you understood my position without spelling it out for you in detail again on this thread.


Gen_6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.


I believe corrupt here refers back to Genesis 6:2-4. Corrupt as in corrupt DNA. Based on Genesis 6:9


Noah was not a “perfect” as in sinless man but he was perfect in that his bloodline had not been corrupted by the events of Gen 6: 2-4.


I base that on the fact the scripture says he was perfect in his generations and then lists his generations in verse 10, his three sons, his offspring. So in context his generations were his bloodline not the time in which he lived.


I do base my beliefs on scripture, you may disagree but that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.


They were also violent sinful, wicked, evil and any other adjective you would care to use but the main reason for their destruction IMO based on my understanding of the scripture was that the pure bloodline from which our Savior was to come was nearly eradicated except for Noah who was perfect in his generations.


I hope that clears up my position.

Click to expand...

The original wording gives no such
of Yhwh,
Genesis 6:5
and Yhwh saw that the dysfunctions of the human in the land was abundant, and all the thoughts of inventions of his heart was only dysfunctional every day,
Genesis 6:6
and Yhwh repented that he made the human in the land, and he was distressed within his heart,

Genesis 6:7
and Yhwh said, I will wipe away the human which I fattened from upon the face of the ground, from the human as well as the beast as well as the treader and as well as the flyer of the skies, given that I repented that I made them,

Genesis 6:8
and No'ahh found beauty in the eyes of Yhwh,
Genesis 6:9
these are the birthings of No'ahh, No'ahh existed a steadfast one and mature man in his generations, No'ahh walked himself with the Elohiym,
Genesis 6:10
and No'ahh caused to bring forth three sons, Shem, Hham and Yaphet,
Genesis 6:11
and the land was damaged to the face of the Elohiym and the land was filled with violence,
Genesis 6:12
and Elohiym saw the land and look, she was damaged given that all the flesh destroyed his road upon the land,
Genesis 6:13
and Elohiym said to No'ahh, a conclusion of all the flesh has come to my face, given that the land of violence was filled from their face, and look at me, I am destroying them with the land,

But you are certainly entitled to stand on all the twisted scripture you want.