Vicomte13

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Is total self-termination or total self-obliteration within the parameters of God's abilities? Or do we conclude that no matter how he might feel concerning his own existence, He is incapable of such an act?

Of course. If he's God, he can do anything by definition, including that. I doubt he would, but if he did, we'd go with him so we'd never know.
 
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~Anastasia~

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Never apologize for your beliefs...just that you are sorry for their toes...there are several here (all across the boards) who will take it and try to take advantage of it..Christ like,huh?
Stick to your beliefs,sister!

True enough - I did intend to apologize for the misunderstanding and Radrook's hurt feelings, but not my beliefs.

Thank you, my brother. :)

God be with you.
 
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aiki

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You say that flesh counts for nothing? That goes completely contrary to what the Bible tells us about how precious Jesus' ransom sacrifice was. If indeed his body of flesh counted for nothing then you are still unredeemed.

You made this response in a post directed to me but I didn't say anything about the flesh counting for nothing. I think you've mixed my post up with someone else's.
 
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Bob Carabbio

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Is total self-termination or total self-obliteration within the parameters of God's abilities? Or do we conclude that no matter how he might feel concerning his own existence, He is incapable of such an act?

More importantly, if a hen and a half, lays an egg and a half in a day and a half, how long would it take a bow-legged Cockroach to shingle a roof??
 
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Radrook

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Of course. If he's God, he can do anything by definition, including that. I doubt he would, but if he did, we'd go with him so we'd never know.

Well, if his personality doesn't permit certain things then we have to understand that when the Bible says that all things are possible with God it excludes sinful things including the sin of self termination.


1 Corinthians 14:33 ESV
For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
 
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Radrook

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Well, if his personality doesn't permit certain things then we have to understand that when the Bible says that all things are possible with God it excludes sinful things including the sin of self termination.


1 Corinthians 14:33 ESV
For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. ....
 
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Radrook

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I think it is clear He has free will. Remember Hezekiah, God "added" 15 years to his life. The problem is we are dealing with a being that really is outside of our ability to understand to any great detail. We are in the flesh and finite, He is Spirit and eternal. We are simply limited on what we can or cannot grasp at this time. So, with what little we can grasp... if we see Him "repent" in various places (2 Samuel 24:16, Amos 7:3 to name two) then He can change His mind. And if true, and that seems to be the case, then He has free will.

The free will He gave us allows us to choose Him or the world. Thus, in the end, He is surrounded by those who WANTED to love Him, WANTED to be with Him.

The problem with free will and predestination is both exist in Scripture and too few are patient enough to work through it to reconcile them. I think it comes down to who's eyes are being looked through. While God has free will, He also knows the end from the beginning and is eternal... always existing. So from His perspective, He can see our timeline at any point and know what will become of any person, thing, thought, anything. Since he knows it in advance, from His perspective we can say "predestination" because it WILL happen because being eternal, He saw it happen already (He exists outside of time). But WE DON'T have a clue what tomorrow brings and so we live having to choose... between good and evil, life and death, blessing and cursing.

Yes, I agree. This thread has truly been a blessing to me since I can now see far more clearly how God's personality functions in reference to decisions that he makes. Thanks for the feedback.
 
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Radrook

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Only GOD could decide the acceptable sacrifice before HIM

YES you are right about that

Just as you are right that HIS WAYS are higher
Only God could decide.
Some feel that he decided to send his Son.
Others feel that he decided to send himself as embodied in his Son.
I feel that I accept whatever of the two decisions he made because what counts is accepting the sacrifice by accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior. That is ALL that the Bible requires for salvation. All other stipulations are unauthorized man-made demands added centuries later under the direction of Constantine who demanded religious unity in his Roman Empire..
 
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Radrook

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Perhaps it should be erased?
This is a Christian forum isn't it?
Please note that the forum is entitled CONTROVERSIAL theology. Since it is entitled CONTROVERISAL THEOLOGY I decided to post something CONTROVERSIAL. If CONTROVERSIAL theological subjects tend to offend then please consider that perhaps participation in the NON CONTROVERSIAL Theology forums would be best in order to avoid getting offended. Just a thought. Also, if I did offend you spiritually by my thread question I sincerely apologize. God Bless!
 
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Radrook

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why?Should it not be?
Seems like the question itself is inappropriate for a Christian forum? I only posted it because I noticed that something CONTROVERIAL is required by this forum as a thread subject and the question happened spontaneously pop into my mind. Perhaps a bit too spontaneously on hindsight.

Nevertheless it definitely has led to some very insightful discussions and I have emerged spiritually uplifted by the majority of responses I have received. Once more thanks for the patience and feedback. God Bless!
 
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Uber Genius

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Is total self-termination or total self-obliteration within the parameters of God's abilities? Or do we conclude that no matter how he might feel concerning his own existence, He is incapable of such an act?
Aseity is an essential attribute of God.

Exodus 3:14 has God's Name relating to his self-existence.

"God is self-existent, God has always been...Our Maker exists in an eternal, self-sustaining, necessary way, necessary, that is, in the sense that God does not have it in Him to go out of existence, just as we do not have it in us to live forever. We necessarily age and die, because it is our present nature to do that; God necessarily continues forever unchanged, because it is His eternal nature to do that. This is one of many contrasts between creature and Creator...God's self existence is basic truth. At the outset of his presentation of the unknown God to theAthenian idolaters, Paul explained that this God, the world's Creator, "is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else" (Acts 17:23-25). Sacrifices offered to idols, in today's tribal religions as in ancient Athens, are thought of as somehow keeping the god going, but the Creator (the I AM) needs no such support system. The word aseity, meaning that he has life in himself and draws his unending energy from Himself (a se in Latin means "from himself"), was coined by theologians to express this truth, which the Bible makes clear.

J.I. Packer Concise Theology pg. 26-7
 
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Uber Genius

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The Bible does tell us that we should not stumble others and I am getting the strong impression that this subject has that potential. That makes me feel very badly. So I will request it be removed. Thanks for the contribution and interest.
Strange response.

Why would he praise you question if he thought you were stumbling him? You seem to have misunderstood his justification of "God's Eternality" intersecting with God's aseity or "self-existence," with stumbling some how.

He (KR) is simply pointing out that eternality would not be eternal if God ever did what you suggested. But you could simply reply that Your question is not what is going to happen in the actual world, but rather "Is there a possible world, where there is a different Bible without reference to God's eternality, where G of chooses to not exist, and "poof" he know longer exists."

And the short answer is no. Due to God's essential attribute of being a se.
 
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Der Alte

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More importantly, if a hen and a half, lays an egg and a half in a day and a half, how long would it take a bow-legged Cockroach to shingle a roof??
But what color was the horse?
 
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Radrook

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Aseity is an essential attribute of God.

Exodus 3:14 has God's Name relating to his self-existence.

"God is self-existent, God has always been...Our Maker exists in an eternal, self-sustaining, necessary way, necessary, that is, in the sense that God does not have it in Him to go out of existence, just as we do not have it in us to live forever. We necessarily age and die, because it is our present nature to do that; God necessarily continues forever unchanged, because it is His eternal nature to do that. This is one of many contrasts between creature and Creator...God's self existence is basic truth. At the outset of his presentation of the unknown God to theAthenian idolaters, Paul explained that this God, the world's Creator, "is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else" (Acts 17:23-25). Sacrifices offered to idols, in today's tribal religions as in ancient Athens, are thought of as somehow keeping the god going, but the Creator (the I AM) needs no such support system. The word aseity, meaning that he has life in himself and draws his unending energy from Himself (a se in Latin means "from himself"), was coined by theologians to express this truth, which the Bible makes clear.

J.I. Packer Concise Theology pg. 26-7
What is Aseity?

Also, what has this to do with his ability to self-terminate? No, I wasn't referring to him as being stumbled. I was referring to others who reacted as if they had been stumbled.
 
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Uber Genius

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What is Aseity?

Also, what has this to do with his ability to self-terminate? No, I wasn't referring to him as being stumbled. I was referring to others who reacted as if they had been stumbled.
Must of missed that. Let the chips fall where they may. We are all adults looking to reduce false beliefs.

As to aseity,
I gave a definition of aseity in my post.

But here are some additional resources:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/god-necessary-being/

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/scholarly-articles/divine-aseity

It is important because it is the essential attribute you are asking about in your original post.
 
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Radrook

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Must of missed that. Let the chips fall where they may. We are all adults looking to reduce false beliefs.

As to aseity,
I gave a definition of aseity in my post.

But here are some additional resources:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/god-necessary-being/

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/scholarly-articles/divine-aseity

It is important because it is the essential attribute you are asking about in your original post.

Your original post tells us that God musty continue to exist because it is his nature to continue to exist. It doesn't factor in willpower and motivation. In short, you treat God as if he were an unconscious thing that has no choice. The fact is that we are dealing with an entity that experiences emotions. Emotions are motivators of behavior. In fact, the motivations for Gods behaviors are provided for us in the biblical account. Anger is one which repeatedly surfaces in the OT. A feeling that he must be respected and worshipped is another. Compassion is another. Another and perhaps the most prominent is love which motivated him to send His Son to die for our sins. So it is only logical to imagine that dealing with the interminable extension of his own existence also engenders an emotion which leads or can lead to behavior.

BTW
I don't imagine boredom being one or sheer frustration because his almightiness can be employed to prevent either of the twain.
 
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