As we are told in the scriptures and as you were just told here - predestination pertains to the beginning of time as we know it.
I'm like TBL, what scripture are you reading?
I definitely, like others, would like to see these scriptures, to see if what you say is true.
God's omniscience or knowing it "inherently within Himself" (which is certainly true) is a different paradigm from the one in which we live of which we know very little.
God's omniscience totally involves our living in time. Are you saying God doesn't know how we will live in time? Is this why you believe He has to predestine things in time? I'm not sure why you think He has to predestine everything. Will it happen other than what He knows?
The only bearing it has on the subject of predestination of what we do in time as we know it is to show that God always knew every possibility that He could do as well as what He would actually do.
So God has to show us that He is omniscient through predestination?
Marvin, God has always known what happens in time. He doesn't need predestination to show us He is omniscient.
Will things happen differently than His omniscience without predestination? I just don't see how predestination is any good to God. As I said, if He needs predestination to 'make' things happen according to His omniscience, then predestination is a crutch to His omniscience.
We know that He knows all other possibilities which could occur because He has given us numerous examples of them both in the O.T. and the N.T.
He is the one who chooses and decrees what He will do and when and, as a consequence, what will occur as a result of that action and when.
For what it's worth also - there is no "world where time exists outside of where God exists. He is infinite and omnipresent.
I'm not sure what that means.
God does not live in time. Until you lift your understanding above, eternity from the beginning will always be incomprehensible and unintelligible to you. Your understanding will always be stuck in time.
To predestine anything means to have a starting point; there is no starting point to God. You have put God within mortal man's paradigm.
And you know this how?
I'll use the Reformed's favorite saying - God is sovereign. Do you deny His sovereignty?
Things are said to happen sequentially in Heaven as well as on earth. That includes the actions we see God doing. He sings to Himself and to His creation and He hears praise and receives praise.
Time is the evidence of motion.
God "speaks". He "sends forth" His Word showing sequence of motion and corrosponding time.
The idea that God does not experience time is a fabrication of the anti predestination folks. He undoubtedly experiences it differently than we do in this fallen world. But to say that He does not experience it is something that you will not find inhe Word of God.
Besides that - it simply isn't true that God is not in time. God is everywhere.
It is certainly true that He transcends the universe. But it is also true that He is immanent everywhere within it as well.
Your understanding is stuck in physical time. I can understand your questions with God being outside of time.
That simply isn't true. It may sound good to you and it may allow for your theories. But it is not true.
"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had occurred in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes." Matthew 11:21
"And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day." Matthew 11:23
Other examples on request.
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IF' isn't a word used of predestination, so the verses you provided only show the fallibility of predestination.
Predestination or decreeing that something will happen is the sending forth of His Word to accomplish everything He intends to accomplish.
"For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven,
And do not return there without watering the earth
And making it bear and sprout,
And furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater;
11 So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth;
It will not return to Me empty,
Without accomplishing what I desire,
And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it." Isaiah 55:10-11
We live and move and have our being in His Word. Everything in existence was created and is being sustained by His Word.
What Bible have you been reading?
You know not what you say.
John 8:11
She said, no man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Was this word of the Lord accomplished?
How about this one Marvin, was it accomplished?
Ezekiel 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
By the way --- it has always perplexed me and I have asked you about it many times before. How is it that you can reconcile scriptures which say that believers have will never again come into condemnation with what you preach concerning them coming into that condemnation again.
Because you fail to read the whole passage, Marvin.
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
I've wondered aloud how it is that believers can be seated with Him in Heaven and ruling with Him from His throne and yet be condemned to Hell at the same time.
I now have an inkling as to how you think. You apparently believe that we exist saved and unsaved at the same "time" and indeed "eternally" live our lives in God's mind without God's decree going forth that we so exist and live our lives in time.
It explains a lot.
But seeing your record in partaking in dialog that makes any sense and in preaching another gospel if given half a chance to do so ----- I will try to just leave off with you again for now.
Since you are seated in Heavenly places with Him, please explain what you see on that seat. Tell us about being seated with Him. What color is the seat? Just where is this seat placed in relationship to Jesus? How does one who lives to the flesh seated with Him?
I preach the Gospel Jesus preached. Who's gospel do you preach?
Romans 2:16
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Romans 16:25
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
2 Timothy 2:8
Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
. It would be best if you just let me talk to whomever I was talking to before you interrupted. - unless of course you have a snotty reply or two you'd like to leave me with.
. It's more of a life situation here. Don't know how to help myself atm..would appreciate it if you or anyone reading this would take the time to see my story in "introductions" thread. I'm tired...
