One-third of millennials believe George W. Bush killed more people than Joseph Stalin

iluvatar5150 · Oct 18, 2016

NightHawkeye said:
Noting that the OP references Stalin not Marx.

The actual survey, to which you linked in post 24, mentions Marx on page 4:

Among those familiar, at least a quarter have favorable impressions of Guevara, Marx and Lenin

Cute Tink · Oct 18, 2016

Interesting survey. I realize the point of the report is to get after millennials, but if you check out page 6, it doesn't seem like much of any group has the answer they are looking for to the somewhat vague question "Over the past 100 years, how many people do you think communism has killed?" with only 35% of "matures" giving the correct answer and going downhill from there. Given those results, perhaps it's not "education" that's the problem. Maybe the question is worded so badly nobody really knows what counts as "Communism killing someone."

Page 9 is a fascinating interpretation of the given data:

"younger generations don’t realize the lasting problem of communism"

The majority of both younger groups still give the perspective that "Communism was and still is a problem". While that is less than the older groups, it hardly justifies the page title.

I have other problems with the presentation of the results, but I'll stop there.

RDKirk · Oct 18, 2016

keith99 said:
It became necessary to give up our freedom to protect our freedom.

Son of something said about villages in that war you can't remember any enemy generals from.

"We had to destroy the village to save it."

Giap. I remember Giap.

RDKirk · Oct 18, 2016

And another survey of British youth indicated that most think Sherlock Holmes was a historical person, but Winston Churchill was fictional.

keith99 · Oct 18, 2016

RDKirk said:
"We had to destroy the village to save it."

Giap. I remember Giap.

And of course at least one other.

I looked up Giap. The article was distressing. Not because of him but because of how it in hindsight is obvious how poorly being arrogant worked out and how we may be repeating history now.

iluvatar5150 · Oct 18, 2016

Cute Tink said:
Interesting survey. I realize the point of the report is to get after millennials, but if you check out page 6, it doesn't seem like much of any group has the answer they are looking for to the somewhat vague question "Over the past 100 years, how many people do you think communism has killed?" with only 35% of "matures" giving the correct answer and going downhill from there. Given those results, perhaps it's not "education" that's the problem. Maybe the question is worded so badly nobody really knows what counts as "Communism killing someone."

Page 9 is a fascinating interpretation of the given data:

"younger generations don’t realize the lasting problem of communism"

The majority of both younger groups still give the perspective that "Communism was and still is a problem". While that is less than the older groups, it hardly justifies the page title.

I have other problems with the presentation of the results, but I'll stop there.

The whole thing smacks of cold war propaganda.

mark46 · Oct 18, 2016

NightHawkeye said:
This Is the Percentage of Millennials Who Believe George W. Bush Killed More People Than Stalin | Daily Signal

For example, 80 percent of baby boomers and 91 percent of elderly Americans believe that communism was and still is a problem in the world today, while just 55 percent of millennials say the same.

Just 37 percent of millennials had a “very unfavorable” view of communism.
...
According to the report, one-third (32 percent) of millennials believed that more people were killed under George W. Bush than under Joseph Stalin.
...
“It is because of such widespread ignorance about communism that we formed the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, which is dedicated to telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth”.

For the record ... Mass killings under Communist regimes | Wikipedia

The highest death tolls that have been documented in communist states occurred in the Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin, in the People's Republic of China under Mao Zedong, and in Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge. The estimates of the number of non-combatants killed by these three regimes alone range from a low of 21 million to a high of 70 million.

J Cord said:
Meh. 1/3 of Baby Boomers believe Trump will make a good POTUS.

and 41% of Trump supporters believe Obama is a Kenyan Muslim.

ChristsSoldier115 · Oct 19, 2016

NightHawkeye said:
This Is the Percentage of Millennials Who Believe George W. Bush Killed More People Than Stalin | Daily Signal

For example, 80 percent of baby boomers and 91 percent of elderly Americans believe that communism was and still is a problem in the world today, while just 55 percent of millennials say the same.

Just 37 percent of millennials had a “very unfavorable” view of communism.
...
According to the report, one-third (32 percent) of millennials believed that more people were killed under George W. Bush than under Joseph Stalin.
...
“It is because of such widespread ignorance about communism that we formed the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, which is dedicated to telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth”.

For the record ... Mass killings under Communist regimes | Wikipedia

The highest death tolls that have been documented in communist states occurred in the Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin, in the People's Republic of China under Mao Zedong, and in Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge. The estimates of the number of non-combatants killed by these three regimes alone range from a low of 21 million to a high of 70 million.

Can we have a good definition of what age group constitutes millennials? Because i keep getting different answers

kermit · Oct 19, 2016

There's an old saying, look at the intelligence of the average person and remember that half of all people are stupider than that.

PeachyKeane · Oct 19, 2016

mark46 said:
and 41% of Trump supporters believe Obama is a Kenyan Muslim.

In May 59% thought Obama wasn't born in American, and 86% believed he was Muslim, according to Public Policy Polling. The former may have gone down since Trump granted the President American citizenship.

If the right wants to ridicule millennials on communism, perhaps they ought to look at some of the conspiracy theories in their own backyard.

NightHawkeye · Oct 19, 2016

ChristsSoldier115 said:
Can we have a good definition of what age group constitutes millennials? Because i keep getting different answers

The basic definition is those reaching adulthood at the turn of the century though I think that has since been extended to younger ages as well ... not unlike the baby boom. That said, the survey summary referenced doesn't provide the cut-off ages for the different generations.

PeachyKeane · Oct 19, 2016

Just as a compliment to the questions of this survey: What percentage of Russians today are Christian?

Is it roughly 5%, 33%, 50%, 75%?

No fair looking it up.

keith99 · Oct 19, 2016

Cute Tink said:
Interesting survey. I realize the point of the report is to get after millennials, but if you check out page 6, it doesn't seem like much of any group has the answer they are looking for to the somewhat vague question "Over the past 100 years, how many people do you think communism has killed?" with only 35% of "matures" giving the correct answer and going downhill from there. Given those results, perhaps it's not "education" that's the problem. Maybe the question is worded so badly nobody really knows what counts as "Communism killing someone."

Page 9 is a fascinating interpretation of the given data:

"younger generations don’t realize the lasting problem of communism"

The majority of both younger groups still give the perspective that "Communism was and still is a problem". While that is less than the older groups, it hardly justifies the page title.

I have other problems with the presentation of the results, but I'll stop there.

Or perhaps it is more that their 'right' answer is the absolute highest estimate. I could find no source that gives their answer of 100,000,000. Instead the 'best' I found was the range of 80,000,000 - 100,000,000.

Perhaps they are the ones who are wrong!

RDKirk · Oct 19, 2016

ChristsSoldier115 said:
Can we have a good definition of what age group constitutes millennials? Because i keep getting different answers

Those who are too young to remember a world without the web and old enough to have had their financial and career plans disrupted in 2008.

Oafman · Oct 19, 2016

PeachyKeane said:
In May 59% thought Obama wasn't born in American, and 86% believed he was Muslim, according to Public Policy Polling. The former may have gone down since Trump granted the President American citizenship.

If the right wants to ridicule millennials on communism, perhaps they ought to look at some of the conspiracy theories in their own backyard.

Indeed. Approximately half of all Americans do not accept the science of climate change or evolution. Those numbers rise to 70-80% when you only ask Republicans. They're not in a position to mock anyone else's ignorance!

Cute Tink · Oct 19, 2016

keith99 said:
Or perhaps it is more that their 'right' answer is the absolute highest estimate. I could find no source that gives their answer of 100,000,000. Instead the 'best' I found was the range of 80,000,000 - 100,000,000.

Perhaps they are the ones who are wrong!

This is entirely possible.

PeachyKeane · Oct 19, 2016

keith99 said:
Or perhaps it is more that their 'right' answer is the absolute highest estimate. I could find no source that gives their answer of 100,000,000. Instead the 'best' I found was the range of 80,000,000 - 100,000,000.

Perhaps they are the ones who are wrong!

Oh, I remember this. One hundred million people includes people killed in wars, on either side during the Russian revolution, POW's who died in WWII, people who died of hunger or disease (which itself was a huge number). Basically, 100,000,000 people died in countries where communism was the political system used, whether they died at the hands of communists or not.

Cute Tink · Oct 19, 2016

PeachyKeane said:
Oh, I remember this. One hundred million people includes people killed in wars, on either side during the Russian revolution, POW's who died in WWII, people who died of hunger or disease (which itself was a huge number). Basically, 100,000,000 people died in countries where communism was the political system used, whether they died at the hands of communists or not.

Makes you wonder how capitalism would fare if the exact same standards were placed against it.

NightHawkeye · Oct 19, 2016

PeachyKeane said:
Oh, I remember this. One hundred million people includes people killed in wars, on either side during the Russian revolution, POW's who died in WWII, people who died of hunger or disease (which itself was a huge number). Basically, 100,000,000 people died in countries where communism was the political system used, whether they died at the hands of communists or not.

Not quite accurate. The bulk of the 100,000,000 estimate is from deaths by starvation, the result of managed economies such as Stalin and Mao had where truth and knowledge were tossed aside in favor of top-down control involving redistribution of farmland and labor.

A problem unique to communism.

Cute Tink · Oct 19, 2016

NightHawkeye said:
A problem unique to communism.

Another perspective:

People who died due to famine in Holodomor are counted as 'killed by communism', despite Western countries' trade blockade against USSR which prevented them from exporting anything but their grain to be able to buy industrial machinery . Stalin administration took a gamble and bet on next harvest being good to export their grain to buy machines via grain exports, because west was preventing them even using their gold to buy machinery. Harvest didn't turn out well, a lot of people died due to famine. Even as government did everything to rectify the famine by implementing rationing across entire country to help the regions with famine.

That's counting deaths due to communism.

Around the same time, countless millions were dying in US due to famine, malnutrition, lack of access to healthcare, shelter, security because of abject poverty brought by Great Depression, and the US government was refusing doing anything about it based on ideological grounds of 'Not intervening in the market'. People were dying on the road to California, in roadside camps, hobo camps, in their houses due to sickness brought by malnutrition, diseases, entire nation was begging, 'Brother can you spare a dime', but the government was ideologically refusing to do anything about it, even as a minority of people made incredible fortunes.

Source.

Call it food for thought maybe.

Not saying I've done any serious research on the subject, but if we are going to focus on deaths "caused by communism" as a primary (?) reason why communism is so evil, perhaps putting that in the context of how many deaths are "caused by" other financial systems would be appropriate.

One-third of millennials believe George W. Bush killed more people than Joseph Stalin

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