The Abomination of Usury and Interest, and the Slavery of Debt

cgaviria

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The Law of Moses forbids lending at interest in any form,
“You shall not charge interest on loans to your brother, interest on money, interest on food, interest on anything that is lent for interest. (Deutereonomy 23:19 [ESV])

In which case, a common form of lending is money lent at interest, and although it was prohibited for the Israelites to do so to each other as brothers, it was permitted for them to do so to foreigners,
You may charge a foreigner interest, but you may not charge your brother interest, that the LORD your God may bless you in all that you undertake in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. (Deuteronomy 23:20 [ESV])

Because God intended the Israelites to rule over nations, and also be above them,
For the LORD your God will bless you as he has promised, and you will lend to many nations but will borrow from none. You will rule over many nations but none will rule over you. (Deuteronomy 15:6 [NIV])
The LORD will open the heavens, the storehouse of his bounty, to send rain on your land in season and to bless all the work of your hands. You will lend to many nations but will borrow from none.
The LORD will make you the head, not the tail. If you pay attention to the commands of the LORD your God that I give you this day and carefully follow them, you will always be at the top, never at the bottom. (Deuteronomy 28:12-13 [NIV])

Yet they were not permitted to borrow from the nations, because as a people that were freed from slavery from Egypt,
"Therefore, say to the Israelites: 'I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the yoke of the Egyptians. I will free you from being slaves to them, and I will redeem you with an outstretched arm and with mighty acts of judgment. (Exodus 6:6 [NIV])
Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and the LORD your God redeemed you. That is why I give you this command today. (Deuteronomy 15:15 [NIV])

They could not then become enslaved by borrowing from nations, since a borrower is a slave to his lender,
The rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is slave to the lender. (Proverbs 22:7 [NIV])

Which is why Paul says this concerning borrowing,
Be indebted to no one, except to one another in love, for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the Law. (Romans 13:8 [BSB])

Because just as the Israelites were freed from slavery in Egypt, so have the elect been freed from the slavery of sin,
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end everlasting life.
(Romans 6:22 [AKJV])

And in a related manner that the elect are not to file civil suit with the ungodly to settle matters among each other, nor be unequally yoked with unbelievers,
If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord's people? (1 Corinthians 6:1 [NIV])
Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? (2 Corinthians 6:14 [NIV])

And just as the Israelites were prohibited from borrowing from the nations, so are the elect also prohibited from borrowing from unbelievers and the ungodly, and should thus, owe no man anything. Yet just as the poor or fellow Israelites could borrow from the Israelites without interest, as opposed to borrowing from the nations,
If you lend money to any of my people with you who is poor, you shall not be like a moneylender to him, and you shall not exact interest from him. (Exodus 22:25 [ESV])

So in likewise manner can the elect who are in need also borrow from other fellow believers in the assemblies of God,
All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. (Acts 4:32 [NIV])
that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.
(Acts 4:34-35 [NIV])

And whoever lends to him must not only lend without interest,
I took counsel with myself, and I brought charges against the nobles and the officials. I said to them, “You are exacting interest, each from his brother.” And I held a great assembly against them and said to them, “We, as far as we are able, have bought back our Jewish brothers who have been sold to the nations, but you even sell your brothers that they may be sold to us!” They were silent and could not find a word to say. So I said, “The thing that you are doing is not good. Ought you not to walk in the fear of our God to prevent the taunts of the nations our enemies? Moreover, I and my brothers and my servants are lending them money and grain. Let us abandon this exacting of interest. (Nehemiah 5:7-10 [ESV])

But also in accordance with the new covenant of Jesus Christ, lend to him without expecting anything in return,
And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. (Luke 6:34 [NIV])

Which exceeds the requirement of the Law of Moses to release debts on every seventh year,
At the end of every seven years you must cancel debts. This is how it is to be done: Every creditor shall cancel any loan they have made to a fellow Israelite. They shall not require payment from anyone among their own people, because the LORD's time for canceling debts has been proclaimed. (Deuteronomy 15:1-2 [NIV])

And as such, all the needs of all the assemblies of God will be met, and the elect will be indebted to no one. And in doing thus, will the love of the elect for each other be seen by all people,
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” (John 13:34-35 [ESV])

And not only must the elect give freely to those in need in the assemblies of God, but also to anyone else who is poor and in need, and even to unbelievers,
But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. (Luke 6:35 [ESV])
Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Matthew 19:21 [NIV])
When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Luke 18:22 [NIV])
He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly. One day at about three in the afternoon he had a vision. He distinctly saw an angel of God, who came to him and said, “Cornelius!” Cornelius stared at him in fear. “What is it, Lord?” he asked. The angel answered, “Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God. (Acts 10:2-4 [NIV])

And as such, in freely giving to all, the elect demonstrate the mercy of God in how God freely gives to both the righteous and the unrighteous,
that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. (Matthew 5:45 [NIV])

Which is the way of those who live in the new covenant of Jesus Christ, who give freely and fulfill the law by not only loving God, but also in loving others as yourself,
And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
(Matthew 22:39-40 [ESV])
Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will repay him for his deed. (Proverbs 19:17 [ESV])
"If there is a poor man with you, one of your brothers, in any of your towns in your land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close your hand from your poor brother; but you shall freely open your hand to him, and shall generously lend him sufficient for his need in whatever he lacks. (Deuteronomy 15:7-8 [NASB])
Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. (Matthew 5:42 [NIV])
If anyone with earthly possessions sees his brother in need, but withholds his compassion from him, how can the love of God abide in him? (1 John 3:17 [BSB])
Whoever shuts their ears to the cry of the poor will also cry out and not be answered. (Proverbs 21:13 [NIV])
Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, "Go in peace; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?(James 2:15-16 [NIV])
And if you give yourself to the hungry And satisfy the desire of the afflicted, Then your light will rise in darkness And your gloom will become like midday. (Isaiah 58:10 [NASB])
Those who give to the poor will lack nothing, but those who close their eyes to them receive many curses. (Proverbs 28:27 [NIV])

And as such, just as Jesus Christ brought forth a new way, where certain commands given to the Israelites were done away with in his new covenant,
"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, (Matthew 5:43-44 [NIV])
“Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’ But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, (Matthew 5:33-34 [ESV])

So in likewise manner has the permissibility of the Israelites to lend to foreigners at interest has also been done away with, since the new way brought forth by Jesus Christ is to lend without expectation of repayment. And as such, whoever lends at interest to anyone commits an abomination,
engages in usury and charges interest. Will he live? He will not! Because he has done all these abominable deeds he will certainly die. He will bear the responsibility for his own death. (Ezekiel 18:13 [NETBIBLE])
he shall not give his money with interest, and shall not take money by usury; he shall turn his hand from injustice; he shall execute a just judgment between a man and his neighbor; (Ezekiel 18:8 [ABP])
He who increases his wealth by interest and usury gathers it for him who is gracious to the poor. (Proverbs 28:8 [NASB])

And not only him who gives at interest, but also he who takes money at usury commits an abomination, as unlike lending at interest, usury is an unjust gain of money that is not earned as a hired laborer,
For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.” (1 Timothy 5:18 [ESV])

Nor money earned by renting a property or possession,
For two whole years Paul stayed there in his own rented house and welcomed all who came to see him. (Acts 28:30 [NIV])

Nor money earned by selling a property or possession,
All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. (Acts 2:44-45 [NIV])

But is money that is unjustly gained from various forms of usury, such as gambling, lotteries, stocks, insurances, pensions, annuities, all of which are evil financial instruments for the greedy to take money to then have a profit of money predicated on chance and time. And as such, whoever pays money into any of these forms of usury commits an abomination just as he who receives money from any of these forms of usury.
 
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SnowyMacie

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Economics is infinitely more complex than the writers of scripture could have ever imagined. Interest, stock trading, insurance, etc. are necessary to prevent our entire economy from collapsing. These things are not inherently evil, it's how you go about them that makes them evil.
 
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cgaviria

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Economics is infinitely more complex than the writers of scripture could have ever imagined. Interest, stock trading, insurance, etc. are necessary to prevent our entire economy from collapsing. These things are not inherently evil, it's how you go about them that makes them evil.

No, these laws were given to prevent such financial systems to form, which cause men to essentially steal and enslave each other.
 
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SnowyMacie

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No, these laws were given to prevent such financial systems to form, which cause men to essentially steal and enslave each other.

That's been happening since the beginning of civilization, and probably before.
 
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SnowyMacie

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So has homosexuality, hence Sodom and Gomorrah.

Sodom and Gomorrah were about inhospitality, not homosexuality. They're also not relevant to a conversation about economics.
 
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cgaviria

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Sodom and Gomorrah were about inhospitality, not homosexuality. They're also not relevant to a conversation about economics.

That is not so, for even the Sodomites later came to Lot's house to try to know the men,
And they called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.” (Genesis 19:5 [ESV])

And this same word, "know", is the same word used when Adam knew his wife sexually,
Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, “I have gotten a man with the help of the LORD.” (Genesis 4:1 [ESV])

As such, the Sodomites wanted to have sexual relations with them, and we can also confirm this by Lot's reaction, in offering up his daughters in place of the wickedness of homosexuality that the Sodomites wanted to commit with the men,
and said, “I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. Behold, I have two daughters who have not known any man. Let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please. Only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof.” (Genesis 19:7 [ESV])
 
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SnowyMacie

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That is not so, for even the Sodomites later came to Lot's house to try to know the men,


And this same word, "know", is the same word used when Adam knew his wife sexually,


As such, the Sodomites wanted to have sexual relations with them, and we can also confirm this by Lot's reaction, in offering up his daughters in place of the wickedness of homosexuality that the Sodomites wanted to commit with the men,

"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant,overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy." -- Ezekiel 16:49.

That's also not to mention a similar story happens in Judges 19, which doesn't end in the city being destroyed by fire and brimstone. I have a hard time believing that there just "gay cities" doting the landscape back then so I'll go with the other option that those stories are really about gang rape and humiliating violence, not homosexuality, them saying to the visitors "You are not welcome here, we are in charge."

That's still all off topic of economics though.
 
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cgaviria

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"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant,overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy." -- Ezekiel 16:49.

That's also not to mention a similar story happens in Judges 19, which doesn't end in the city being destroyed by fire and brimstone. I have a hard time believing that there just "gay cities" doting the landscape back then so I'll go with the other option that those stories are really about gang rape and humiliating violence, not homosexuality, them saying to the visitors "You are not welcome here, we are in charge."

That's still all off topic of economics though.

Scripture does not contradict, as such, homosexuality was not their only sin, for just as the passage in Genesis declares their intention to commit a sin of homosexuality, so in Ezekiel we come to see what other sins they committed.
 
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civilwarbuff

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No, these laws were given to prevent such financial systems to form, which cause men to essentially steal and enslave each other.
If you want to live the life of an Orthodox Jew feel free to follow these laws and rules; those of us that are Christian are not bound by them....we have a New Covenant
 
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cgaviria

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If you want to live the life of an Orthodox Jew feel free to follow these laws and rules; those of us that are Christian are not bound by them....we have a New Covenant

The new covenant does not abolish the law,
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. (Matthew 5:17 [NIV])
Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. (Romans 3:31 [ESV])
 
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civilwarbuff

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The new covenant does not abolish the law,
Christ Jesus redeemed us from the curse that has been brought through the law by becoming a curse for us (Galatians 3:13). He substituted Himself in our place and upon the cross took the punishment that is justly ours so that we are no longer under the curse of the Law. In doing so, He fulfilled and upheld the requirements of the Law. This does not mean that Christians are to be lawless, as some advocate today—a teaching called antinomianism. Rather, it means that we are free from the Mosaic Law and instead under the law of Christ, which is to love God with all of our being and to love our neighbors as we love ourselves.

Christ became the end of the Law by virtue of what He did on earth through His sinless life and His sacrifice on the cross. So, the Law no longer has any bearing over us because its demands have been fully met in the Lord Jesus Christ. Faith in Christ who satisfied the righteous demands of the Law restores us into a pleasing relationship with God and keeps us there. No longer under the penalty of the Law, we now live under the law of grace in the love of God.
gotquestions.org
 
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cgaviria

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Christ Jesus redeemed us from the curse that has been brought through the law by becoming a curse for us (Galatians 3:13). He substituted Himself in our place and upon the cross took the punishment that is justly ours so that we are no longer under the curse of the Law. In doing so, He fulfilled and upheld the requirements of the Law. This does not mean that Christians are to be lawless, as some advocate today—a teaching called antinomianism. Rather, it means that we are free from the Mosaic Law and instead under the law of Christ, which is to love God with all of our being and to love our neighbors as we love ourselves.

Christ became the end of the Law by virtue of what He did on earth through His sinless life and His sacrifice on the cross. So, the Law no longer has any bearing over us because its demands have been fully met in the Lord Jesus Christ. Faith in Christ who satisfied the righteous demands of the Law restores us into a pleasing relationship with God and keeps us there. No longer under the penalty of the Law, we now live under the law of grace in the love of God.
gotquestions.org

The curse of the law is not the law itself, for the law is holy,
So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. (Romans 7:12 [ESV])

But the curse of the law is death, hence why he who hung on a tree was dead as a result of the curse of God,
his corpse shall not hang all night on the tree, but you shall surely bury him on the same day (for he who is hanged is accursed of God), so that you do not defile your land which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance. (Deuteronomy 21:23)

As such, this death comes as a result of the curse, and the curse comes as a result of disobedience of the law, hence,
For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” (Galatians 3:13 [ESV])

And that disobedience is sin, as such, whoever sins becomes cursed because he has broken the law, and that sin results in death,
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:23 [NIV])

And since all have sinned, all are cursed,
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (Romans 3:23 [ESV])

Which is why it is necessary to repent and stop breaking the law,
Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2 [ESV])
She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.” (John 8:11 [ESV])

And to believe in the son of God,
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:13 [ESV])

To then be baptized in holy spirit that frees from sin and brings forth the righteousness of God,
to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” (Galatians 4:5-6 [ESV])
and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. (Romans 6:18 [ESV])
So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. (John 8:36 [ESV])
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:9 [KJV])

And as such, whoever becomes born in spirit then upholds the law of God perfectly,
Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. (Romans 3:31 [ESV])

This is why it is not of works of the law that one is saved, but by merely believing and receiving the holy spirit, in which case one is then caused to obey the law, hence,
And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. (Ezekiel 36:26-27 [ESV])
 
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civilwarbuff

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And since all have sinned, all are cursed,
Heb 10:
The Messiah Offered One Sacrifice
5 For this reason, the Scriptures say, when the Messiah was about to come into the world: “You did not want sacrifices and offerings, but you prepared a body for me.
6 In burnt offerings and sin offerings you never took delight.
7 Then I said, ‘See, I have come to do your will, O God’ In the volume of the scroll this is written about me.”
8 In this passage he says, “You never wanted or took delight in sacrifices, offerings, burnt offerings, and sin offerings,” which are offered according to the Law.
9 Then he says, “See, I have come to do your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second.
10 By God’s will we have been sanctified once and for all through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus, the Messiah.

11 Day after day every priest stands and repeatedly offers the same sacrifices that can never take away sins.
12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, “he sat down at the right hand of God.”
13 Since that time, he has been waiting for his enemies to be made a footstool for his feet.
14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
15 The Holy Spirit also assures us of this, for he said:
16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws in their hearts and will write them on their minds,
17 and I will never again remember their sins and their lawless deeds.”

18 Now where there is forgiveness of these sins, there is no longer any offering for sin.

The New Covenant of Grace through Messiah by His worthy sacrifice..... not through the Law.
 
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cgaviria

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Heb 10:
The Messiah Offered One Sacrifice
5 For this reason, the Scriptures say, when the Messiah was about to come into the world: “You did not want sacrifices and offerings, but you prepared a body for me.
6 In burnt offerings and sin offerings you never took delight.
7 Then I said, ‘See, I have come to do your will, O God’ In the volume of the scroll this is written about me.”
8 In this passage he says, “You never wanted or took delight in sacrifices, offerings, burnt offerings, and sin offerings,” which are offered according to the Law.
9 Then he says, “See, I have come to do your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second.
10 By God’s will we have been sanctified once and for all through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus, the Messiah.

11 Day after day every priest stands and repeatedly offers the same sacrifices that can never take away sins.
12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, “he sat down at the right hand of God.”
13 Since that time, he has been waiting for his enemies to be made a footstool for his feet.
14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
15 The Holy Spirit also assures us of this, for he said:
16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws in their hearts and will write them on their minds,
17 and I will never again remember their sins and their lawless deeds.”

18 Now where there is forgiveness of these sins, there is no longer any offering for sin.

The New Covenant of Grace through Messiah by His worthy sacrifice..... not through the Law.

You can only receive the second if you receive the spirit, which is how you become sanctified, and you can only receive the spirit if you stop sinning. And once you receive the spirit, God writes the very laws you have repented from in your heart, and causes you to stop breaking them by his spirit.
 
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civilwarbuff

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You can only receive the second if you receive the spirit, which is how you become sanctified, and you can only receive the spirit if you stop sinning. And once you receive the spirit, God writes the very laws you have repented from in your heart, and causes you to stop breaking them by his spirit.
1 John
8 If we say that we do not have any sin, we are deceiving ourselves and we’re not being truthful to ourselves.
9 If we make it our habit to confess our sins, in his faithful righteousness he forgives us for those sins and cleanses us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have never sinned, we make him a liar and his word has no place in us.

Romans 7
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am merely human, sold as a slave to sin.
15 I don’t understand what I am doing. For I don’t practice what I want to do, but instead do what I hate.
16 Now if I practice what I don’t want to do, I am admitting that the Law is good.
17 As it is, I am no longer the one who is doing it, but it is the sin that is living in me.
18 For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but I cannot carry it out.
19 For I don’t do the good I want to do, but instead do the evil that I don’t want to do.
20 But if I do what I don’t want to do, I am no longer the one who is doing it, but it is the sin that is living in me.
21 So I find this to be a principle: when I want to do what is good, evil is right there with me.
22 For I delight in the Law of God in my inner being,
23 but I see in my body a different principle waging war with the Law in my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin that exists in my body.
24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is infected by death?
25 Thank God through Jesus the Messiah, our Lord, because with my mind I myself can serve the Law of God, even while with my human nature I serve the law of sin.

Unless you are claiming Paul and John never received the Holy Spirit.....?
 
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cgaviria

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1 John
8 If we say that we do not have any sin, we are deceiving ourselves and we’re not being truthful to ourselves.
9 If we make it our habit to confess our sins, in his faithful righteousness he forgives us for those sins and cleanses us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have never sinned, we make him a liar and his word has no place in us.

Romans 7
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am merely human, sold as a slave to sin.
15 I don’t understand what I am doing. For I don’t practice what I want to do, but instead do what I hate.
16 Now if I practice what I don’t want to do, I am admitting that the Law is good.
17 As it is, I am no longer the one who is doing it, but it is the sin that is living in me.
18 For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but I cannot carry it out.
19 For I don’t do the good I want to do, but instead do the evil that I don’t want to do.
20 But if I do what I don’t want to do, I am no longer the one who is doing it, but it is the sin that is living in me.
21 So I find this to be a principle: when I want to do what is good, evil is right there with me.
22 For I delight in the Law of God in my inner being,
23 but I see in my body a different principle waging war with the Law in my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin that exists in my body.
24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is infected by death?
25 Thank God through Jesus the Messiah, our Lord, because with my mind I myself can serve the Law of God, even while with my human nature I serve the law of sin.

Read this, perhaps you will learn, http://www.christianforums.com/threads/born-in-spirit-perfection-sanctification-sin-no-more.7971297/ .
 
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civilwarbuff

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cgaviria

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Receive the Holy Spirit and perhaps you will.....1 Corinthians 2:14

Anyone who has the holy spirit would not then say they can sin in contradiction to 1 John. So not only he who sins does not have the holy spirit, but also he who believes false knowledge concerning the freedom of sin caused by the holy spirit.
 
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civilwarbuff

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Anyone who has the holy spirit would not then say they can sin in contradiction to 1 John. So not only he who sins does not have the holy spirit, but also he who believes false knowledge concerning the freedom of sin caused by the holy spirit.
John is saying if we claim to have no sin, we are a liar; so either a believer does have sin or he is a liar (which is a sin).
And you just ignored Paul in Romans 7.....Is he also without the Holy Spirit if he admits to sin? Or could it just possibly be your own beliefs are out of sync with scripture?
 
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