CHECK THIS OUT: 666 IS REAL & PASTORS ARE PROMOTING IT!!! (Part 1)

yeshuaslavejeff said:

I don't think you're catching on, but who knows?
So, yes, pray as Y'SHUA says for strength to endure
and for wisdom to survive .

i.e. we all pray that your eyes may be opened to see .
As you have posted,
it is the enemy who is promoting the chip.
Whether it is the mark or not, all who follow the enemy are doomed.

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But let me propose a scenario of my own. Just a hypothetical. The enemy is promoting the chip. Right in fron of everyone's faces. You're certainly aware of it. Not very deceptive, though, is it? I would expect more from the "father of lies" to just, announce his chip. But what if the "mircochippers" are being used? What if the enemy is a brilliant deceiver. Suppose he knows what the mark really is, and he wants to - make a decoy "mark" to fool people. So, he has his workers run around, saying, "the mark is literal, and it is a microchip - look there it is!"

So some well-meaning Christians get worked up over this, worldly thing, and then the enemy puts his plan into action. Everyone is to receive the microchip. People refuse it, and go hungry. But at least they didn't take the mark, right? So a bit of time passes, and the enemy says "Phase 1 of the great deception is over; and now that these Christians are believing they have escaped taking the mark; it's time for Phase 2... the REAL mark. Bring me my Jesus costume at once, and ready the pyrotechnics display..."

John Hyperspace said:

I don't disagree with your Sunday analogue; that indeed does show a state of heart toward your belief; I don't deny that at all. But in the discussion I was having, we were talking about the "mark of the beast" as being a microchip that is taken in order to survive in an economy. So if a person is convinced this microchip is "the mark of the beast" then their taking of it, would indeed be a sign of state of heart toward God.

But this isn't the scenario in the Revelation. There, everyone who receives it is judged. That means even if someone didn't believe the chip was the mark of the beast, and received it under the impression it was simply a change from one form of currency to another, would still be judged. Which would make as much sense as judging people for receiving a paycheck.

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but isn't that what the HS is for, to witness to us what is truth? Isn't that what the prophesy is for, so that we will be watching and waiting and thus not surprised by it? See, I don't see how you think it is just a trivial thing given what scripture says about it.

But only people who believe reception of a computer chip displays state of heart, are the only people who would not receive it. Everyone else who received it would not be believing it was "the mark" and as such, their reception of it would be as insignificant as their reception of any other form of currency. This is why I'm saying, the reception of a computer chip as showing state of heart, makes no sense.

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let's look a bit deeper into your argument. There is a scriptural understanding that there is an argument for ignorance in scripture. I'm not sure that is valid given that scripture says that man is without excuse.

You see, as I see it and if you have been following along, we are without excuse because we are warned therefore to be watching for it and thus would recognize it when it is upon us.

And, furthermore, the implications of understanding the words of God as being "needed guessed at" simply rule out this interpretation entirely. Moreover, the worldly understanding of such words in a clearly symbolic book. For instance, that opposed "seal" received by the 144,000 "in the forehead"? Is this also to be understood clearly as a microchip? A "saintly microchip"? Both the seal of God, and the mark of the beast, are in the forehead. Are those understanding the "mark of the beast" as a literal device, also understanding the "seal of God" as a literal thing? If so, what it is?

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I don't know, my position is that it could be or it might not be the chip...but let me ask you this, which is based on your understanding in this post not something you think I might believe as you do in this paragraph about me....if all the "signs" lined up and there was a world leader that "demanded" everyone get a chip or tattoo in order to buy/sell/trade/etc. and all the other aspects of that time period all lined up, would you take the chip or tattoo or not, why or why not? See, my position is that the prophecy is given so that we will be watchful, not so that we have all the answers. So if we saw all the prophecy fulfilled, would you or would you not take the mark and why?

John Hyperspace said:

But let me propose a scenario of my own. Just a hypothetical. The enemy is promoting the chip. Right in fron of everyone's faces. You're certainly aware of it. Not very deceptive, though, is it? I would expect more from the "father of lies" to just, announce his chip. But what if the "mircochippers" are being used? What if the enemy is a brilliant deceiver. Suppose he knows what the mark really is, and he wants to - make a decoy "mark" to fool people. So, he has his workers run around, saying, "the mark is literal, and it is a microchip - look there it is!"

So some well-meaning Christians get worked up over this, worldly thing, and then the enemy puts his plan into action. Everyone is to receive the microchip. People refuse it, and go hungry. But at least they didn't take the mark, right? So a bit of time passes, and the enemy says "Phase 1 of the great deception is over; and now that these Christians are believing they have escaped taking the mark; it's time for Phase 2... the REAL mark. Bring me my Jesus costume at once, and ready the pyrotechnics display..."

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I'm confused, the antichrist is said to use deceptive things like a wound that seems fatal but he overcomes, etc. it's like your scenario is straight out of Rev.

No worries at all for the sheep who hear the SHEPHERDS VOICE who leads us and guides us every day and guards us and keeps us for HIMSELF as HIS WORD CLEARLY SAYS.
TRIBULATION?
absolutely. already for a long time.
and getting worse every day this year and next year and until HE returns.
(it is even worse if and where people don't suffer, thinking things are somehow okay or better ..... )

yeshuaslavejeff said:

No worries at all for the sheep who hear the SHEPHERDS VOICE who leads us and guides us every day and guards us and keeps us for HIMSELF as HIS WORD CLEARLY SAYS.
TRIBULATION?
absolutely. already for a long time.
and getting worse every day this year and next year and until HE returns.
(it is even worse if and where people don't suffer, thinking things are somehow okay or better ..... )

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? and your point is? I seem to have missed it

Endtime Survivors said:

For example, The Mark prophecy says the purpose of the Mark is to control buying/selling.

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It's to control people and their thinking with penalties and economic sanctions
-Ez 8:16-
And he brought me INTO the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their BACKS toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
-Ez 9:3-4-
And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;
4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a MARK upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the ABOMINATIONS that be done in the midst thereof.
-Ez 9:6-
Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and BEGIN AT MY SANCTUARY.
Rev 9:4-
And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the GRASS (Isaiah 40:7: the people is grass) of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but ONLY those men which have NOT the seal of God in their foreheads.
Rev 14:1-
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Rev 14:9-12-
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his MARK in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 13:2-
And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Dan 7:2-7-
Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
(Same beasts, different vantage point in time.)
Dan 7:23-
Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth KINGDOM upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:25-
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to CHANGE times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Rev 13:5-7-
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and BLASPHEMIES (Forgiveness of sins in God's place, like the Pharisees accused Jesus of) ; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Dan 9:13-14-
As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.
14 Therefore hath the LORD watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the LORD our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice.
Rev 13:11-12-
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:14-18-
And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
(Remember the dragon, whom all the beasts receive authority from)
Rev 12:17-
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

These are world powers it speaks of. The iron/dreadful beast was Rome, which followed Greece in Alexander's time. Daniel breaks it down pretty well. What one will do to keep from receiving the MARK of the beast in the right hand ( actions) or their forehead (belief system) is to have God's MARK or SEAL there first. It means being so grounded in truth and willingness to follow the Lamb, even unto death, that we are never thwarted in deception, and the deception will closely mimick righteousness. It's totally spiritual but our actions will denote what we really believe and understand..... or not. On the CHIP thing, the world may adopt such as technology increases, especially to keep up with what people think and do. Remember who is prince of the world. That won't change until the very end. Part of it may also be due to those who run the world wanting us to think it's all about a chip, when hundreds and hundreds of verses of scripture tell us what's really up. You may see similarities in many prophecies in order to blind the average bear. Satan always has a close counterfeit of much of Christ's works. The deadly wound of the sea beast will be healed and the earth beast will cause those who don't conform to its ways to be punished. It's sanctions will be progressive. Economic at first, then by force. You basically have to use Daniel as a key to Revelation. The two candlesticks/witnesses are the OT & NT and are translated as "instruction" for us to use together. Hope this helps.
Peace be with you.

John Hyperspace said:

Everyone already depends on their economy as a means of buying and selling to acquire supplies for survival. Taking a chip wouldn't change this any more than changing from furs to paper currency changed this. This does not indicate the state of a person's heart toward God and man, it indicates they need to survive, and care for their families, in a working economy. Jesus did not denounce governments or economies, He stated the opposite. Luke 3:14

You're trying to make this into a state of heart matter by claiming that everyone who would take a microchip in order to survive does so with full knowledge that they are factually betraying God, and choosing a "beast man" over God; but this is nonsense. This means that these people will all be willingly choosing damnation and I'm confident no one willing chooses damnation.

The only scenario that could actually occur is a microchip being required to buy and sell, you and others claiming it is the 'mark of the beast' causing people to wonder if you are right or wrong, without actual knowledge. The ones taking the chip would clearly be of the group that doesn't believe you're correct, and why should they? God isn't providing clear answers in your scenario.



It's so clear that there are hundreds of interpretations. And if you are honest, you would confess that you aren't certain that your interpretation is correct. But the fact is that your interpretation is based on a conclusion that is not in the bible, but is a product of your own need to "guess" at what the scripture means, and, hope your guess is the right guess. I know what good teaching is, and I know that God - the greatest of Teachers - would never teach in such a way. Our answers must always come from the bible, and not from our own imaginations.



So is a chip in the left hand acceptable? A chip in the shoulder area? Jesus said, "You must eat My flesh and drink My blood"; do we literally do this? This is a very clear set of words, is it not? But I presume though the words are themselves clearly understood, the understanding of the words is not literal.

In the bible, there tefellin are on the right hand and forehead, which contain the Word of God in them. This is a clear correlation to the mark of the beast, and is no doubt what is being alluded to by John. It is our understanding of the Word of God, and our actions through that understanding that are the sign of the state of our mind toward the Word of God. A man either understands the Word of God literally, and wordly, or he understands them, spiritually. The first is the mind of the beast (without spiritual understanding) and the latter the mind of the Christ.



I do indeed realize the seriousness of all of this. I mean no offence to you at all, and hope you understand this, but I'm confident that your understanding is, worldly, and erroneous. For many basic and simple reasons that you're not yet taking into account. For instance, the fact that your teaching contains the unstated teaching that God is an incompetant teacher who doesn't properly define His terms to give us sure understanding, but leaves us in the dark to "pin-the-guess-on-the-understanding" and hope we have guessed correctly. We must look inside the bible for understanding, not outside the bible. You are reading the words, then looking outside of the bible and trying to discern what is being said. But this is not how a competent teacher would work. He would either give us sure means to understand, or would not bother recording the words at all.

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I think you ignore the bible so we will never agree.

razzelflabben said:

but isn't that what the HS is for, to witness to us what is truth? Isn't that what the prophesy is for, so that we will be watching and waiting and thus not surprised by it?

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I do agree and believe without doubt prophecy is given so that we will know what to expect and not be surprised. This is somewhat my point, without certain knowledge, we can be surprised. Either prophecy (and, by extension the God giving the prophecy through His Spirit) is designed to give 100% certain knowledge which we liken to a "rock" to stand on, or it is giving us ambiguous information that we have to guess at and look around and hope we're piecing it together correctly; but this is not certainty, it's uncertainty- it's "sand"; meaning we may not understand it yet, but when we do come to understand the prophecy, it relays to us a "this is certainly true" and not "this might be what it means": "maybe's" and "might be's" are just, not good enough.

razzelflabben said:

See, I don't see how you think it is just a trivial thing given what scripture says about it. let's look a bit deeper into your argument. There is a scriptural understanding that there is an argument for ignorance in scripture. I'm not sure that is valid given that scripture says that man is without excuse.

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There is argument for ignorance in scripture: John 15:22, Romans 7:9, Acts 17:30. It stands up in the court of God; the only reason we don't allow it in earthly courts is because we can't be sure who is really ignorant, and who is just using it as an excuse: but God does know, and ignorance is an excuse. The Romans verse you're quoting concerning those "without excuse" is saying that they are not ignorant of the things "clearly seen" and therefore clearly known. But this is not the same as being ignorant of what a symbol in an apocalyptic book is meaning, especially when people are deluged from every side with conflicting interpretations of what the symbol means.

But speaking of this ignorance: Psalms 73:22: see here how the psalmist is saying "as a beast"? This use of beast, is all through the bible, and is meaning, ignorance; and here at the Revelation the beast rising out of the sea is no different: it is the "ignorant" worldly religion (displayed in fullness in the Laodecian church, the 7th of the 7 churches being addressed by the Spirit) - and the "mark" of the beast is fulfilled in this ignorance of worldly religion masquerading as true religion. But it is foolishness to God: it is the worldly mind that seeks to understand the words of God after the worldly things. The mark isn't a worldly thing, it is a spiritual mark, just as the seal of God "in the forehead" isn't a literal, worldly seal; it's a spiritual thing. These opposing marks are in the way of mind is understanding the words of God.

And so God said, bind My words on your hand and your forehead; and the Jews make little boxes to put bible verses in, so everyone can "see" how righteous they are in their worldly image. Matthew 23:5 as opposed to Matthew 6:5-6. And we are seeing these two opposing forms of religion being presented for judgment in the Revelation: the one being called Jerusalem, and the other, Babylon.

razzelflabben said:

You see, as I see it and if you have been following along, we are without excuse because we are warned therefore to be watching for it and thus would recognize it when it is upon us.

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True, but we have to know what we're looking for. Remember that the prophecies about Christ told the Jews what to be looking for, they were even in expectation: Luke 3:15. But most of them missed it. They were looking for something, but they didn't understand what they were supposed to be looking for. What deceived them? The worldly-minded understanding of prophecy. The expected a worldly kingdom, and a worldly king, to fight off their worldly oppressors. It was because of the exact same worldly spirit at work today, which is that veil over the eyes, blinding people to the truth of the spirit.

razzelflabben said:

I don't know, my position is that it could be or it might not be the chip...

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Exactly my point. But do you think this is what God intends? That this is why God wrote the words in the book? So that we couldn't really understand them? And be left in a state of "could be" or "might not"? We're all placing a rightful amount of seriousness onto this issue of this "mark" and the consequences of receiving it. Would God really leave us to sweat and say "maybe?" with so much on the line? Or, would you think God would make it absolutely clear to us so that we can actually say "I know it"? Which is more inline with the character of God?

On the idea of "receiving the mark" note these verse: 1 Corinthians 2:12, 2 Corinthians 11:4

razzelflabben said:

but let me ask you this, which is based on your understanding in this post not something you think I might believe as you do in this paragraph about me....if all the "signs" lined up and there was a world leader that "demanded" everyone get a chip or tattoo in order to buy/sell/trade/etc. and all the other aspects of that time period all lined up, would you take the chip or tattoo or not, why or why not?

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Truthfully, I'm pretty disconnected from the function of society, even now I don't use money, and get my supplies from family, so a "microchip" would be insignificant to me, and I would dismiss it, able and willing to function without it. Though, I'm not saying this makes me "righteous" or that people should emulate me to "keep the word of God"; it's simply how I am. I prefer not to engage in the workings of enconomy and society. I don't seek what it can give.

But if the government were to demand it, I wouldn't hesitate or forbid. If people asked "Are you afraid it's the mark?" I would reply, "No. This is not the mark; though someone is apparently wanting people to think that it is." They could put a microchip in every part of my body and it wouldn't have any effect on my love of God, my love of others, and my absolute trust in God and God alone.

But I will agree that if someone is sweating and thinks the chip is the mark, I would advise they do not go against their conscience, because: 1 John 3:20-21

Endtime Survivors said:

If you want to feed your family, you must participate in the economic system. If you want to get paid at your job, you must participate in the economic system. If you want to pay the bills, you must participate in the economic system, where we're taught that we should only help one another if we get paid for it. That is not the kingdom of Heaven.

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This is not always true, per se. (though it is devastating and with great difficulty much of the time).

During the wwII, some peasant home owners in Poland and other countries helped the Christians and the Jews and others if in need, even at the risk of losing their home and their life,
with food or clothes or a place to sleep some nights.

The Christians and the Jews and others were on the run from the german military and the secret police/ nazis.
They could not participate in anything.
When they were found, they were killed.

Around the world TODAY, there are many who will be killed if captured. Others risk their own lives and homes to help them as much as they are able,
just as Corrie ten Boom and her family and troupe did through the war.
Most all of Corrie ten Boom's family was executed for this,
but they knew that could happen any day all along, and they never refused to help whoever knocked on their door for help.

Endtime Survivors said:

Hi all. Here's another video, this one about the Mark of the Beast. It's a bit longer than the other videos (a run time of 18 minutes) and it comes in 3 parts (the other 2 parts will be released later).

The video attempts to detail how the Mark of the Beast will almost certainly manifest itself as a microchip implant in the hand for buying/selling and how various strategies for taking it are being developed and disseminated to the general public.

I look forward to some lively discussion.

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ok whether it is ultimately an inserted chip right hand or forehead (y forehead -not everyone has a right hand lol ) i cant say .. but the methodology in the advert at the start of the clip is sneaky .. over 10,000 pets have one inserted ..What they dont point out is most pets live 2 to 12 years ... not 70 so theres no way to say they wont cause cancer or other in human bodies ,there have not been enough tests subjects around for long enough . its all sneaky sneaky ..
but it matters nothing what form the mark comes in. the point is - The concept of it is being conditioned into societies consciousness.

some other opinions here are way out in a galaxy far far away

Endtime Survivors said:

Hi all. Here's another video, this one about the Mark of the Beast. It's a bit longer than the other videos (a run time of 18 minutes) and it comes in 3 parts (the other 2 parts will be released later).

The video attempts to detail how the Mark of the Beast will almost certainly manifest itself as a microchip implant in the hand for buying/selling and how various strategies for taking it are being developed and disseminated to the general public.

I look forward to some lively discussion.

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It seems very apparent the marketing to promote “the chip” is very effective and many will line up to gladly receive one.

At one time I whole heartedly believed this would be the “mark of the beast” in Revelation 13, I am not as sure now. While it may very well be the vehicle that allows control of the masses, I do have some questions about it being the actual mark.

One of my questions what is it about taking this chip ties it directly to a rejection of God and belief in Him? For example if parents chipped their child to aid in location of that child if lost or kidnapped, what makes that a spiritual rejection of God any more than a pacemaker inserted into one’s body, or a joint replacement, or any other medical foreign device inserted into one’s body? In the past social security numbers, credit cards, Sunday Worship, were thought to be tied to the mark.

I have come to believe whatever the mark is it in some way must be tied to rejecting the one true God and His Son. That act I believe is somehow tied to the mark whatever it is. I lean more the mark being tied to Islam, I just think it makes more sense but I am not dogmatic about it.

http://shoebat.com/2014/09/09/every-christian-needs-know-mark-beast-mark-god/

Alithis said:

some other opinions here are way out in a galaxy far far away

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the whole world refuses to stop serving demons willingly.
Much more dangerous than a galaxy far far away , eh !?

Endtime Survivors said:

The Mark isn't about promoting a chip. It is looking more and more likely that the Mark will take the form of a microchip implant, but the implant itself isn't the problem. It is the motivation behind taking the implant. Satan doesn't care about microchips or money, but he does care about turning people away from God, and there seems to be few ways to more effectively manipulate humans than through their greed and fear.

Part of "God's ways" is about overcoming issues like fear and greed. In Matthew 6:24-34 Jesus describes a new system in which we work for love rather than money and the tings money can buy. He says that we should not allow fear to stop us from seeking God's kingdom first. He talks about basic necessities like food and clothing and says all the world chases after these things, but that we should not be like them.

We are physical creatures who depend on physical necessities like food, clothing, shelter, etc, but Jesus says that we should be ready to put God even before these most basic necessities which he knows we need.

This is where the Mark comes in. Jesus says that God's system is all about working for love, not allowing the physical (like greed and fear) to interfere with our motivations. The Mark is all about subverting that motivation by manipulating people to depend on the physical.

If you want to feed your family, you must participate in the economic system. If you want to get paid at your job, you must participate in the economic system. If you want to pay the bills, you must participate in the economic system, where we're taught that we should only help one another if we get paid for it. That is not the kingdom of Heaven.

People will take the Mark because they will not see it as the Mark. They will not see it as overtly religious at all. It will be simply the next step in the evolution of money, as normal as normal can be.

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But then again, we're back to the idea making no sense. The use of money has been going on since the dawn of civilization. Jesus used money, Judas kept the bag. He said to render to Caesar that which was Ceasar's, did not condemn the payment of tribute, nor tithing, nor use of currency. Because none of this matters to Him. If one get to the point that money becomes his god, then, yes, we've got a problem, and this problem doesn't need some literal microchip to be a real "hellbent" problem.

What's the point of God specifying use of a "computer chip" to buy and sell as "worthy of hellfire" and not use of paper currency, or a credit card, or a paycheck? I mean no offence, really, I'm just saying what is true to me: I believe God is a super-genius. Off the charts creativity, and genius. This is one reason that I can look at a lot of Christian doctrines and reject them as "an idea that would never emerge from the mind of a human genius, let alone God Himself, the Genius of Genius." I can look at an idea and say "That idea is too nonsensical to be coming from God; and so I am certain this is not the case at all."

Every statement, every interpretation of the bible, not only makes a specific claim, but it makes several unproposed claims that come along with the interpretation. I can not only look at the bible, but I can consider the unstated ramifications of the interpretation, as well. Not only do I not see this "microchip/literal economy-based" interpretation as consistent with what the bible is causing me to understand through the words, but I can look at the unstated ramifications of the interpretation which even further cast doubt on the idea.

I've got a prophecy filled with symbolism, and you're wanting me to go literal on this specific aspect of a "mark" with no justification that I can discern for taking this literally when it's in a book of prophetic symbols and imagery (I ask again, is the "seal" in the foreheads of the 144,000 also a literal "saintly microchip"? Revelation 7:3), and weighing as well the ramifications of God suddenly caring about how people transact currency in a literal economy when He has never before shown any disdain for this, the ramifications that God does not give certain knowledge through His words but rather leaves us to "guess the mark; hope you're right" ambiguities, which create a great deal of confusion as people scramble to "pin-the-prophecy-on-the-thing-they-see" when the bible states God is not the author of confusion. Just none of it works.

Endtime Survivors said:

I'm curious as to why not.

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There's nothing I really care to acquire that would compel me to get money, and engage in such things. I simply do not fit in to this world, and the motions of it. I don't have a wife or children, so there's no one I need to think about providing for. It's just, unnecessary for me, and I rather enjoy the freedom to move as I'm moved, when and where I move. But, I wouldn't for a second look down on someone who was participating in the structure, that is what they do; I'm different.

Endtime Survivors said:

Hi LS. Thanks for your post. Actually, I did respond to your comments. Disagreement does not equate to a lack of response.

Would you mind elaborating on the logical fallacy of suggesting the Mark could be a microchip implant? Check out the similarities. The prophecy lists three main pieces of information about the Mark:

Purpose: Buying/selling
Users: Rich/poor, Great/small, free/slave (i.e. everyone)
location: Right hand.
(Revelation 13:16-17)

That fits microchip implants perfectly. The coincidence is too great to ignore or explain away with highly spiritualized concepts which are pretty obvious about ignoring the issue of our relationship to materialism.

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...the Mark also fits the Patronage / Client social pattern of the Roman Empire [see link here for additional info], one that we imitate in various ways today in our own modern cultures (i.e Employer / Employee relationships, along with the social valuation of status esteemed among diverse social classes), and we require that people have (and earn) printed and/or electronic money to trade, live or subsist. WE don't barter, nor live off the land ... which are the natural alternatives to the idea of systematic economy.

Just something to think about, folks! Anti-Christ trouble has been around for a long, long, long time. It's not something that is new and just now "popping up"! Of course, this doesn't mean that our government(s) won't want to offer chips and dips to the public as another form of economic exchange.

Peace
2PhiloVoid

John Hyperspace said:

If one get to the point that money becomes his god, then, yes, we've got a problem

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Thus, almost all society. (not "get to the point" but already at, starts at )

What Y'SHUA warned the disciples about, and came to set them and subsequent disciples free of.

i.e. "SURPRISE : SALVATION ARRIVES !"

John Hyperspace said:

But let me propose a scenario of my own. Just a hypothetical. The enemy is promoting the chip. Right in fron of everyone's faces. You're certainly aware of it. Not very deceptive, though, is it? I would expect more from the "father of lies" to just, announce his chip. But what if the "mircochippers" are being used? What if the enemy is a brilliant deceiver. Suppose he knows what the mark really is, and he wants to - make a decoy "mark" to fool people. So, he has his workers run around, saying, "the mark is literal, and it is a microchip - look there it is!"

So some well-meaning Christians get worked up over this, worldly thing, and then the enemy puts his plan into action. Everyone is to receive the microchip. People refuse it, and go hungry. But at least they didn't take the mark, right? So a bit of time passes, and the enemy says "Phase 1 of the great deception is over; and now that these Christians are believing they have escaped taking the mark; it's time for Phase 2... the REAL mark. Bring me my Jesus costume at once, and ready the pyrotechnics display..."

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The mark of the beast is ????
Any good detective knows that you have to have a suspect to develop a case.
There is a lot of guess work in this tread.
Please define who or what the BEAST is before you opine on the mark. Do not put the cart before the horse.

Your creditability would be much enhanced in your opinion of the mark if you can tie it to the beast.

There are 13 Identifying characteristics of the beast in the bible, look them up and then tell us what the mark of the beast is, after you identify the beast.