Hello, ES. The mark, as a mark is a technicality I'm going to have to stick with. The bible makes it clear this is a mark in the sense of a tattoo or something to that affect.
While the mark does represent a choice, it is also contract, and agreement that we choose, signed sealed and delivered. Signed as in the beasts name/number on us and our acceptance of it represents our signature. Sealed, as a sealed agreement, that we have no power to ever break, an ironclad contract. And delivered from God (if we had God to begin with) right into the hands of the beast.
Yet, it is still a mark. the bible is very very specific on that. It tells us just where the mark will go and the basics of what it is. It is so clear, I see no need to even consider other translations.
So yes, the mark will mean several things, but still it is an actual physical mark that gets the ball rolling, and I feel there is a reason for that. God wants this decision to be very clear to us, it's not something we can be unsure of/no confusion/no nonsense or possibility of our thoughts misleading us on what is going on. It's a specific thing we either do, or we don't do. Just as the biblical warning is simple and straight forward, so to is the act...either/or, no in between and all crystal clear to those who accept it or not.
And it makes perfect sense it would be that way, as this is serious business, and quit possibly the biggest decision of our life, the decision that decides eternal doom or life. So, good for God in being as fair as possible in making what will and how it will happen, as clear as possible.
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John Hyperspace
UnKnown ReMember
The beast is worldly religion; this is whom the temple of God is cleansed of, cast out, by Christ in judgment (remember the 7 letters to the 7 churches, especially Laodecia, who are to be judged by Him):
Matthew 21:12-13, Mark 11:15-17, Luke 19:45-46
John 2:16 Notice the making of "My Father's house a house of merchandise"
2 Peter 2:3 Notice the false teachers make "merchandise" of people and that after the judgment: Revelation 18:11 "No man buyeth their merchandise any more"
The Revelation is about the spiritual judgment of the churches which are worldly, and introduce worldly doctrines and wordly ways in order to make merchandise of people, and turning the house of God into a den of thieves: this is the serving of mammon, and not God, which ends at the judgment when they are cast out of the temple of God. Only those with the "mark of the beast" can buy and sell in this manner, and make merchandise of men, turning the house of prayer into a den of thieves.
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John Hyperspace
UnKnown ReMember
What is the state of their heart that would receive a microchip to be able to buy and sell in literal economies? They're wanting to buy food? What are you meaning by this?
The bible is clear that God cares who takes the mark; not that the mark is to be interpreted as a literal thing. Why do you think people accepting a microchip to buy and sell in an literal national economy shows the state of their heart? Does receiving a paycheck also show the state of their heart?
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John Hyperspace
UnKnown ReMember
For the record, there is also something that went on the hand and forehead in the OT; it was the Word of God held in the tefellin.
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Simple.
In some of the WORD STUDIES or VERSIONS perhaps paraphrased,
or even directly,
you may find in SCRIPTURE (YHWH'S WORD)
that
what is important is who you trust and who you rely on.
All those of HIS people who wanted to go back to Egypt and did not TRUST YHWH, did not get to enter the PROMISED LAND.
So much more is it important now to TRUST HIM instead of trusting anything of the flesh to provide our needs;
since YHWH gave HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON Y'SHUA to die for us,
HE will not blink if someone turns away from trusting YHWH and trusts man's government or man's provision to supply their needs.
Taking the mark is worse than ISRAEL SEEKING A KING.
It is rejecting Y'SHUA as MESSIAH,
it is rejecting YHWH as ELOHIM (GOD),
and it is rejecting HIS PROVISION OF GRACE IN Y'SHUA MESSIAH
to obtain instead what pitiful man has to offer.
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I mean the state of their heart is to choose/depend on the world, the guy they will know perfectly well is the beast. It tells god exactly what the state of their heart is...the state that you yourself say is what he is after.
What interpretation does such clear scripture need? It can't be any clearer, and one can only not see it if they choose not to. A few things in the bible are not so clear, this is far from one of them. What part of mark/forehead/right hand is confusing to you?
So what if you are wrong, and people are listening to you, and because of you, take the mark and get everything the Bible claims they will for doing so? Do you not realize the seriousness in this?
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Hi ES, Peaceful Sabbath.
"Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.
The Script says that the "mark" can also be on the forehead. I wonder how many people will choose to have that big microchip insertion needle stuck into their forehead?
Maybe the tough guys of the tribulation will take it in the head.
On the other hand, I have seen tough guys with tattoos on their foreheads. I think there was a wrestler who had his hairline tattooed on. And some people even thought that was cool.
Unless he has the "mark" = charagma.
◄ 5480. charagma ►
Strong's Concordance
charagma: a stamp, impress
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-ag-mah)
Short Definition: sculpture, a stamp, sign
sculpture; engraving, a stamp, sign.
5480 xáragma – properly, an engraving (etching); (figuratively) a mark providing undeniable identification, like a symbol giving irrefutable connection between parties.
Sorry ES, it looks like the "mark" is going to be just an old school tattoo, an engraving (etching) or external and very visible sign. And I think there's a bunch of logical reasons for this to be the case. In the video a guy said something about one day all newborn babies would have the microchip implanted at birth. But the mark of the beast won't be forced on newborn babies or on anyone else against their will or without their knowledge.
That little black lady hit the nail right on the head. Her church said the microchip is fine as long as it didn't go against any of God's Laws. Did she look worried about a microchip? No way, she was cool. That's what it's all about, it's about a behavior. It's about worship. Worship comes from the word "proskuneo" which can also mean to submit to or to obey. Unless that microchip can cause me to change my behavior, it's not the thing to worry about right now. Don't worry about it.
I have a hunch that when the mark of the beast is enforced that we will be in a state of worldwide panic and emergency so severe that peoples hearts will be failing them for fear of the expectation of what is coming on the world, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. We will have suffered such severe devastation from the first four trumpets that the end time survivors will think that the gates of hell have opened up. I'm not convinced that the infrastructure that we've been accustomed to will be completely operational. I doubt there will be teams of microchip dispensing squads traveling around the world injecting the "mark". And a concealed chip will be of no use unless there is electricity available in the area to power a scanner to read the data. But I've spoken with some people who were sporting gangster style homemade tattoos which looked like they were done in a back alley somewhere. These were clearly visible without the need for an electronic scanner.
Where I live, tattoos have seemed to spread in popularity like wild fire. I never even wanted to get one. A guy at my work has so many tattoos on his right hand and forearm that there is little space left for the Antichrist's mark. He will have no choice but to have the mark of the beast put on his forehead.
Did you ever notice how the Devil seems to have been steering humanity towards the things that God said NOT to do? Those who will NOT receive the mark of the beast, never even would have since before the foundation of the universe.
So fuggetaboutit.
And follow the Lamb wherever He goes.
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. - Leviticus 18:22
"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God - Exodus 20:8-11
"'Do not cut your bodies for the dead
or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD. - Leviticus 19:28
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-murder-history-tiny-North-Carolina-town.html
"'Do not cut your bodies for the dead
or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD. - Leviticus 19:28
or put tattoo marks
or put tattoo marks
or put tattoo marks
or put tattoo marks
And follow the Lamb
And follow the Lamb
And follow the Lamb
And follow the Lamb
"By The Mark"
When I cross over
I will shout and sing
I will know my Savior
By the mark where the nails have been
By the mark where the nails have been
By the sign upon His precious skin
I will know my Savior when I come to Him
By the mark where the nails have been
A man of riches
May claim a crown of jewels
But the King of Heaven
Can be told from the prince of fools
By the mark where the nails have been
By the sign upon His precious skin
I will know my Savior when I come to Him
By the mark where the nails have been
On Calvary's Mountain
Where they made Him suffer so
All my sin was paid for
A long, long time ago
By the mark where the nails have been
By the sign upon His precious skin
I will know my Savior when I come to Him
By the mark where the nails have been
I will know my Savior when I come to Him
By the mark where the nails have been
- GILLIAN WELCH
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razzelflabben
Contributor
Personally, and this is opinion only so please no one take it further...I believe that the chip is a good possibility because it can be removed. Here is my thought...if parents get the "mark" for their babies before the child is of the age of accountability it would be consistent with scripture that they would have the ability to refuse the mark at the age of accountability. That would mean it would be something they could remove, right? A chip would be able to be cut out. I could be wrong and am willing to accept if I am but it makes sense in my head with the totality of scripture. Just something to think about.
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
I think that
It is not written whoever "has" the mark is condemned;
it is written whoever "receives" the mark is condemned.
It probably won't matter if they cut their arm off,
just like ESAU who also could not repent,
if they "receive" the mark, they cannot repent of it; they are condemned. From all the WORD of YHWH SAYS, it is absolutely serious and final.
It is not written whoever "has" the mark is condemned;
it is written whoever "receives" the mark is condemned.
It probably won't matter if they cut their arm off,
just like ESAU who also could not repent,
if they "receive" the mark, they cannot repent of it; they are condemned. From all the WORD of YHWH SAYS, it is absolutely serious and final.
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razzelflabben
Contributor
so what passage says that a parents decides for the child whom they will serve when they are of age?
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
All of mankind's thought about children and being of age or the age of accountability
do not change YHWH'S WORD at all.
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John Hyperspace
UnKnown ReMember
Believe me, I understand the idea of trust in God and in all things looking to Him alone, and never to reliance on the feebleness of men, whose power is only an illusion of misperception. But if you are saying that, taking a microchip in order to buy and sell to provide food and needs to yourself and your family is contemptable in the eyes of God, to the point of literal damnation, then it must follow that the act of having a job in a literal economy, and taking a paycheck, and a credit card, in order to buy and sell, is no different at all. There is no difference between taking a microchip, and taking a paycheck, or a credit card, or any other literal requirements to survive in a national economy.
Clearly, anyone who would take a microchip is doing so for the same reason they take a paycheck; to be able to survive in a national economy based on this currency. It makes no sense for God to condemn a man for taking a microchip, and not for taking a paycheck. They are the exact same thing in different form.
So I would ask anyone teaching these literal understandings of the mark, does God also condemn men who take a paycheck in order to buy and sell? If not, why not?
Also, I stand by what I said earlier: the Word of God gives clear answers, and is not a jumble of "pin-the-guess-on-the-prophecy" guesswork. God does not leave us in darkness, nor speak words that have no certain meaning. To do so would make His words (and, in the case, the entre book of the Revelation) meaningless, as it would offer no certain understanding. In other words, if we are to "take our best guess" as to what these symbols mean, then we are indeed left to do what you have already claimed is not desired by God: rely on our own selves, and other men to provide answers for us. And even then, the answers will never have any power of conviction, but no worth at all.
If you teach a microchip mark, there is no guarantee that you are right, people who you warned of taking a microchip, would not be able to discern if your words were true or not; especially given that there are hundreds of literal interpretations of this mark: which one is true? No one knows. "Maybe it's this thing" "Maybe it's that thing" "maybe it's the other thing" it is confusion.
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
It looks like you assumed you could expand what YHWH'S WORD says, but perhaps not. Perhaps you hit on some truth that is usually denied.
Realizing this: if someone values a paycheck MORE than obedience to YHWH,
what happens to them ?
If they deny Y'SHUA in order to get a paycheck, what happens to them?
If they deny YHWH'S WORD in order to get a paycheck, what happens to them ?
If they trust idols made of wood, hay, stubble, gold or paper,
what happens to them ?
i.e. A LOT of the world's population who thinks they are going to be okay are in for a BIG SURPRISE, both on earth, yes, and on judgment day.
Realizing this: if someone values a paycheck MORE than obedience to YHWH,
what happens to them ?
If they deny Y'SHUA in order to get a paycheck, what happens to them?
If they deny YHWH'S WORD in order to get a paycheck, what happens to them ?
If they trust idols made of wood, hay, stubble, gold or paper,
what happens to them ?
i.e. A LOT of the world's population who thinks they are going to be okay are in for a BIG SURPRISE, both on earth, yes, and on judgment day.
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I think that it's going to turn out that you are correct Jeff.
“If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
I think that this mark of the beast business is going to take place over a very short span of time, possibly the last 5 months of the tribulation prior to the second coming. It's not going to be a long time like seven years or the whole 42 months of the beast's authority. When the Antichrist is first revealed, he might not even seem like a bad guy to many people. But then at the 6th trumpet he's going to be allowed to kill 1/3 of mankind. That's when the wicked, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain, will be lining up to get the "mark" to save their skin. 666 is about 2/3's of 1000.
"So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour, the day, the month, and the year, were released to kill a third of mankind
I think that it IS going to be a bad time just as Jesus said it would be but it's going to be fast. Everything will start literally overnight the day after the sudden destruction. The MOB won't sneak up on anyone and take them by surprise. Nobody is going to receive it by mistake. People will be in a frenzy to either receive it or refuse it, but there's going to be no time to go home and mull it over.
This message from heaven will probably be the LAST chance that people will have to refuse the MOB:
“Come out of her, my people,
lest you take part in her sins,
lest you share in her plagues;
for her sins are heaped high as heaven,
and God has remembered her iniquities.
lest you take part in her sins,
lest you share in her plagues;
for her sins are heaped high as heaven,
and God has remembered her iniquities.
Peaceful rest of the Sabbath.
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Amein.
With huge sorrow and grief for the multitudes lost, even though they had a way to be saved, they choose not to .
They choose to love darkness instead of light,
because their practices/ deeds/ are evil.
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razzelflabben
Contributor
ah, I'm not changing YHWH's word...but I fear that is a different topic...let's just say this, there is sufficient evidence in scripture to tell us that each man is responsible for what they decide to do with Jesus when they are old enough to make that decision for themselves. If you have never studied the topic, you should, it isn't just man's "compassion" here it is scripture. I will get you started...Gal. 6:4-5; Romans 14:10; Romans 14:12; Romans 14:12...I really am not sure why you are even questioning this concept but it is not only worth the study but off topic for this thread.
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Perhaps it is off topic, except that anyone who receives the mark is condemned.
All that other , I'm not going to change your mind so I won't even try.
That's up to YHWH'S MERCY in Y'SHUA.
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razzelflabben
Contributor
okay, the quickest way to make me testy on these boards is to inflate what people say into something they didn't say and there try to make your case.
As the poster in question repeatedly told you, the issue isn't a paycheck or credit card, or mark, the issue is whom you bow down to. Put it another way, it is who you are selling yourself to in order to get food and shelter, etc. Honestly, if you are selling yourself spiritually to your boss at work, you are sinning, period. That is the issue on the table. Anyone or anytime we put anything that is anything above God we are sinning and that is the problem here with the mark of the beast as it is being presented to you.
Now, that being said, it would be nice if you would respond accordingly.
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