To whom and why God gave the Sabbaths?

listed

are you?
May 14, 2011
9,126
1,817
✟53,797.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Deuteronomy simply defines what is and is not sin. That is all the Law is... a compilation of what God sees as holy and righteous and what He sees as unholy and unrighteous. We can over-spiritualize anything we are confronted with, but Deuteronomy shouldn't be one of them. Like I said, it is a list of do's and don'ts and that's it.
See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

from 32

16They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.

17They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.

18Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.

19And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.

20And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

21They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

22For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

23I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them.

24They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.

25The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.

26I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men:

27Were it not that I feared the wrath of the enemy, lest their adversaries should behave themselves strangely, and lest they should say, Our hand is high, and the LORD hath not done all this.

28For they are a nation void of counsel, neither is there any understanding in them.

29O that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter end!

30How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up?

31For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.

32For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters arebitter:

33Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.

34Is not this laid up in store with me, and sealed up among my treasures?

35To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.

36For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, andthere is none shut up, or left.

37And he shall say, Where are their gods, their rock in whom they trusted,

38Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices, and drank the wine of their drink offerings? let them rise up and help you, andbe your protection.

39See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: bugkiller
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There is a difference... and I am not sure at this time you can differentiate between them. Context is not the verse before and after, context is much more.

You are taking what I said out of context...

"Paul counted his former reliance on the Law of Moses (known today as Judaism), as "dung"."


How about explaining Galatians 4:24-31.

Please explain it in the context of "the two covenants" mentioned in verse 24.

You have a blank slate. Go ahead...

.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

listed

are you?
May 14, 2011
9,126
1,817
✟53,797.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I wouldn't mind Listed but here is what will happen. You might fairly hear out a case and pray about it and go in whatever direction on it that you feel led. But I know there are others here who are so adamantly opposed to anything that stands outside of their paradigm that they will derail the points by taking it in 100 different directions. If we could simply go point by point, we could discuss it. But that won't happen here... there are too many who can't go point by point, they will want to throw out 20 verses, think they scored some superior spiritual point, but in the process just made it impossible to have any meaningful discussion. So... my answer is no though you are welcome to send me a PM or look me up on Facebook or something.
Your response leaves me wondering if you can do it. You seem to refuse.
 
Upvote 0

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,560
Winchester, KENtucky
✟308,895.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Yes, please do. You, Ken, have come on here and, in a way, tried to belittle us and yet do not offer much in explanation.
Brother, in no way am I trying to belittle anyone. The problem is really simple... when somebody comes on who has a viewpoint, paradigm, or has drawn a conclusion that differs from others, some people will want to at least hear it out. The others will begin to drop verses and expect me, in this case, to take many hours out of my day to answer all their questions. The problem is, they don't really want to know the answers, what they want to do is prove me wrong. Well, I don't care who is correct, we all have error... but I don't desire to take part in a theological urinating match. If you want to talk we can talk, but I am not going to share something I think is special, holy, in harmony with God's character, and then have it... and in my view HIM... profaned in the process. It is one thing not to agree, it is another when people make it personal and that happens on this site often. I think it best I just pack it in and forget this site.

As for Galatians... once the gospel left Judea it went out to the pagans... to the people who didn't know God and were not known by God. The Galatians, most likely the Gauls, worshiped many gods and had many different holy days that they observed. When they came into the faith, they were free from that pagan bondage. However, they began to be confronted by two demons. One... the draw BACK to their previous life, to those days they felt so much a part of. These were pagans so the days they were returning to WERE NOT Passover, Unleavened Bread, Pentecost, Trumpets, Atonement, or Tabernacles... for those are things that our messiah himself took part in. Please don't lose sight of that last sentence, the things so many on this site are quick to call bondage, a curse, actions that nullify faith... are things the very messiah we follow did. The second spirit that these Galatians fought against was Gnosticism. The Gnostics were calling themselves "Jews" but they were not Jewish... these are who the "Synagogue of Satan" verse is speaking of. They were pushing works of the law unto salvation (like circumcision) so the Galatians were dealing with Jewish Halacha being pushed on them... probably frustrating and disheartening them... and it was pushing them back into their previous lives which is what Paul was trying to deal with in chapter 4.
 
Upvote 0

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,560
Winchester, KENtucky
✟308,895.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Your response leaves me wondering if you can do it. You seem to refuse.
No... Proverbs 6:16-19 says that God >>HATES<< when a brother causes division or strife with other brothers. And when I share some of the things I believe, others begin to act in a divisive manner and I do not want MY WORDS to be the reason that another brother sins.
 
Upvote 0

Bob S

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 5, 2015
4,582
2,203
88
Union County, TN
✟656,769.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Deuteronomy simply defines what is and is not sin. That is all the Law is... a compilation of what God sees as holy and righteous and what He sees as unholy and unrighteous. We can over-spiritualize anything we are confronted with, but Deuteronomy shouldn't be one of them. Like I said, it is a list of do's and don'ts and that's it.

All that has to do with morality is Holy for Christians. All that had to do with ritualism geared for Israel only has nothing to do with Christianity. Israel's ritual laws are but history. Why would any thinking person want to observe laws that have been abrogated, laws given only to one now defunct nation. Jesus was the end of a conditional covenant. He is the beginning of a non conditional eternal covenant, better in every respect.

You referred to the feasts being God's feasts. Yes, I agree they were given to only Israel by God for reasons we Christians do not have any reason to observe. When do you observe the feast do you do as follows: Numbers 10:10 Also at your times of rejoicing—your appointed festivals and New Moon feasts—you are to sound the trumpets over your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, and they will be a memorial for you before your God. I am the Lord your God.”
 
Upvote 0

listed

are you?
May 14, 2011
9,126
1,817
✟53,797.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Brother, in no way am I trying to belittle anyone. The problem is really simple... when somebody comes on who has a viewpoint, paradigm, or has drawn a conclusion that differs from others, some people will want to at least hear it out. The others will begin to drop verses and expect me, in this case, to take many hours out of my day to answer all their questions. The problem is, they don't really want to know the answers, what they want to do is prove me wrong. Well, I don't care who is correct, we all have error... but I don't desire to take part in a theological urinating match. If you want to talk we can talk, but I am not going to share something I think is special, holy, in harmony with God's character, and then have it... and in my view HIM... profaned in the process. It is one thing not to agree, it is another when people make it personal and that happens on this site often. I think it best I just pack it in and forget this site.

As for Galatians... once the gospel left Judea it went out to the pagans... to the people who didn't know God and were not known by God. The Galatians, most likely the Gauls, worshiped many gods and had many different holy days that they observed. When they came into the faith, they were free from that pagan bondage. However, they began to be confronted by two demons. One... the draw BACK to their previous life, to those days they felt so much a part of. These were pagans so the days they were returning to WERE NOT Passover, Unleavened Bread, Pentecost, Trumpets, Atonement, or Tabernacles... for those are things that our messiah himself took part in. Please don't lose sight of that last sentence, the things so many on this site are quick to call bondage, a curse, actions that nullify faith... are things the very messiah we follow did. The second spirit that these Galatians fought against was Gnosticism. The Gnostics were calling themselves "Jews" but they were not Jewish... these are who the "Synagogue of Satan" verse is speaking of. They were pushing works of the law unto salvation (like circumcision) so the Galatians were dealing with Jewish Halacha being pushed on them... probably frustrating and disheartening them... and it was pushing them back into their previous lives which is what Paul was trying to deal with in chapter 4.
If Paul is addressing pagans, why did he spend so much of Galatians on the law? The law would not be a concern of a pagan.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bugkiller
Upvote 0

listed

are you?
May 14, 2011
9,126
1,817
✟53,797.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
No... Proverbs 6:16-19 says that God >>HATES<< when a brother causes division or strife with other brothers. And when I share some of the things I believe, others begin to act in a divisive manner and I do not want MY WORDS to be the reason that another brother sins.
So lock them out with the ignore feature. I read you did this with some. Not really interested in excuses.
 
Upvote 0

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,560
Winchester, KENtucky
✟308,895.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
All that has to do with morality is Holy for Christians. All that had to do with ritualism geared for Israel only has nothing to do with Christianity. Israel's ritual laws are but history. Why would any thinking person want to observe laws that have been abrogated, laws given only to one now defunct nation. Jesus was the end of a conditional covenant. He is the beginning of a non conditional eternal covenant, better in every respect.

You referred to the feasts being God's feasts. Yes, I agree they were given to only Israel by God for reasons we Christians do not have any reason to observe. When do you observe the feast do you do as follows: Numbers 10:10 Also at your times of rejoicing—your appointed festivals and New Moon feasts—you are to sound the trumpets over your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, and they will be a memorial for you before your God. I am the Lord your God.”
I don't believe that Yeshua was coming to create a new religion, I believe those who witnessed him saw him fulfilling prophesies and expectations that were taught and understood within an existing religion.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: SAAN
Upvote 0

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,560
Winchester, KENtucky
✟308,895.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
If Paul is addressing pagans, why did he spend so much of Galatians on the law? The law would not be a concern of a pagan.
Christians see the word "law" and have one definition, one application for the word. Sometimes it is speaking about God's law. Other times it is speaking about Jewish law which is God's law with man made additions. And other times we have the law of sin and death... which is not God's law, it was that which became our reality when Adam sinned. Oh... and rarely but a few other times, the word law also means secular law. Now, as stated in one of my recent posts... the Gnostics, who called themselves Jews (we know this from their own historical writings) were pushing a works based gospel onto the Galatians. That is the main debate in that book.

Gal 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

When did the Jews not know God or were not known by God? This isn't speaking about Jews as the Jews were not only known by God, they were entrusted with His Word (Romans 3:2). So if it isn't the Jews that are being spoken to, then the beggarly elements they are returning to are NOT God's Feasts... they were pagan holy days.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: SAAN
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,560
Winchester, KENtucky
✟308,895.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
So lock them out with the ignore feature. I read you did this with some. Not really interested in excuses.
Look, iron sharpening iron is not a sword fight, that is how the iron gets chipped, not sharpened. I am not interested in sword fights, not because I don't think I can win... but because I don't think they reflect the fruits of the Spirit. So, instead of engaging with people who ONLY WANT TO FIGHT, I have ignored them. One of the greatest gifts the Lord gives us is time... why would we waste it on people who just want to fight? Besides, we are to love our neighbors, even our enemies... yet so many will argue to death with a "brother" because they reach a different Scriptural conclusion. I find that to be spiritually immature and unedifying so I choose not to take part. I will be happy to discuss things, even if we disagree... but I am not going to fight.
 
Upvote 0

Bob S

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 5, 2015
4,582
2,203
88
Union County, TN
✟656,769.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Brother, in no way am I trying to belittle anyone. The problem is really simple... when somebody comes on who has a viewpoint, paradigm, or has drawn a conclusion that differs from others, some people will want to at least hear it out. The others will begin to drop verses and expect me, in this case, to take many hours out of my day to answer all their questions.
Far be it for me to put you out, but you are the one who tells us we are not understanding yet you have had little to offer in response. Why do you pre judge all who have dialogued with you as not really caring what you write. the reason I asked you to explain Gal and especially Gal 3 is because your assessment must be much different than mine. My assessment of Gal 3 is that Paul was/is telling all that we are not under the laws that governed Israel. For instance He wrote that the law, Torah, was until Christ. What does that really mean if different than Paul stated?

The problem is, they don't really want to know the answers, what they want to do is prove me wrong.
Again, what is your motive?

Well, I don't care who is correct, we all have error...
Well, I really do because it effects the way I live my life and I am not the judge, but...........

but I don't desire to take part in a theological urinating match.
But here you are.

If you want to talk we can talk, but I am not going to share something I think is special, holy, in harmony with God's character, and then have it... and in my view HIM... profaned in the process.
WOW! that to me is thoughtless. Do you realize how many lurkers on this site reading our posts. You have sacred thoughts and will not reveal them because someone might profane? Maybe you are really afraid to to put it out there because of maybe self pride, or maybe getting your feelings hurt? Remember friend this is a forum and we should never let anyone get under our skin. We state our beliefs and if others do not agree so be it. I guess I call myself thick skinned for the most part. It is very hard for someone who does not know me and vice versa to make me uneasy and stop me from pounding the keys.

It is one thing not to agree, it is another when people make it personal and that happens on this site often. I think it best I just pack it in and forget this site.
I would hate to see you go. We all learn from each other. The Holy Spirit tells me to help others to see that we are not under the old covenant. Ours is to be fully dependent on our Savior Jesus Christ and follow His commands of love. I was blessed to e one who has been both under the law and am now under Grace. Grace is so beautiful compared to the yoke of the law.

As for Galatians... once the gospel left Judea it went out to the pagans... to the people who didn't know God and were not known by God. The Galatians, most likely the Gauls, worshiped many gods and had many different holy days that they observed. When they came into the faith, they were free from that pagan bondage. However, they began to be confronted by two demons. One... the draw BACK to their previous life, to those days they felt so much a part of. These were pagans so the days they were returning to WERE NOT Passover, Unleavened Bread, Pentecost, Trumpets, Atonement, or Tabernacles... for those are things that our messiah himself took part in. Please don't lose sight of that last sentence, the things so many on this site are quick to call bondage, a curse, actions that nullify faith... are things the very messiah we follow did. The second spirit that these Galatians fought against was Gnosticism. The Gnostics were calling themselves "Jews" but they were not Jewish... these are who the "Synagogue of Satan" verse is speaking of. They were pushing works of the law unto salvation (like circumcision) so the Galatians were dealing with Jewish Halacha being pushed on them... probably frustrating and disheartening them... and it was pushing them back into their previous lives which is what Paul was trying to deal with in chapter 4.
Your understanding of that part of history is far beyond my knowledge and I thank you for presenting it. Dealing with those who would put believers back under pagan laws had to be stopped. Not only was Paul dealing with those people, he was dealing with those who would put converts back under Torah. That I can readily glean from reading chapters 3 and 4. Jesus ratified a new covenant with His blood, not like the covenant He gave to Israel. It is a better covenant with better promises. Why would anyone try to convince others to forfeit the new and go back under the old with its feasts, new moons and weekly Sabbaths which Paul so plainly wrote are mere shadows and Jesus is reality? All that the old covenant could do is condemn the Israelites for not living up to the standards. The only way to have a temporary reprieve was to kill animals for sacrifice. It was a conditional covenant with the big IF YOU WILL. They didn't and the covenant was negated. Why try to revive something that didn't work when we have something much better just waiting for all to take as a free gift form the One who saves mankind??
 
  • Winner
Reactions: listed
Upvote 0

Bob S

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 5, 2015
4,582
2,203
88
Union County, TN
✟656,769.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Christians see the word "law" and have one definition, one application for the word. Sometimes it is speaking about God's law. Other times it is speaking about Jewish law which is God's law with man made additions. And other times we have the law of sin and death... which is not God's law, it was that which became our reality when Adam sinned. Oh... and rarely but a few other times, the word law also means secular law.
Why did Paul call the 10 commandments: the ministry that brought death? 2Cor 3:7
 
Upvote 0

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,560
Winchester, KENtucky
✟308,895.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Why did Paul call the 10 commandments: the ministry that brought death? 2Cor 3:7
Think about how your conclusion paints God. You just said that "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul" or "Do not steal" or "Do not murder" is a ministry that brings death? That is not consistent with anything save for modern, dispensational, anomian thinking.

The law contained the do's and don'ts but it ALSO contains our pronunciation of guilt. We are guilty, we deserve death... but through Yeshua we have life. It is just like this...

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Based on your conclusion above, I imagine you like many others see this as the commandments being nailed to the cross. but again, that means "love the Lord thy God and Him only" gets nailed to the cross. "Do not steal" gets nailed to the cross and then what, we live lawlessly? No... our GUILT, the pronunciation of our guilt, the verdict of our guilt, is nailed to the cross. That is the curse that Yeshua came to reverse... he came to reverse the curse of death... but your conclusion has his coming to get rid of the 10 commandments??? The same commandments he faithfully followed?
 
Upvote 0

SAAN

Newbie
Apr 26, 2013
2,034
489
Atlanta, GA
✟80,985.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Christians see the word "law" and have one definition, one application for the word. Sometimes it is speaking about God's law. Other times it is speaking about Jewish law which is God's law with man made additions. And other times we have the law of sin and death... which is not God's law, it was that which became our reality when Adam sinned. Oh... and rarely but a few other times, the word law also means secular law. Now, as stated in one of my recent posts... the Gnostics, who called themselves Jews (we know this from their own historical writings) were pushing a works based gospel onto the Galatians. That is the main debate in that book.

Gal 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

When did the Jews not know God or were not known by God? This isn't speaking about Jews as the Jews were not only known by God, they were entrusted with His Word (Romans 3:2). So if it isn't the Jews that are being spoken to, then the beggarly elements they are returning to are NOT God's Feasts... they were pagan holy days.
Galatians is so misunderstood, since is always read out of context many times. Gal 4:9 is clealry showing it is former pagans who have received the Messiah and they are trying to go back to some of what they used to do, is who Paul is talking to, but it is always seen as Feast Days were the weak and beggarly elements when they passage is cherry picked.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Ken Rank
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,560
Winchester, KENtucky
✟308,895.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Galatians is so misunderstood, since is always read out of context many times. Gal 4:9 is clearly showing it is former pagans who have received the Messiah and they are trying to go back to some of what they used to do, is who Paul is talking to, but it is always seen as Feast Days were the weak and beggarly elements when they passage is cherry picked.

Gal 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

If we just look at the above without emotion and bias (a hard thing to do, we ALL have a bias) then we see that whoever these people are did not know God and were not known by God. The Jews were known by God, even if one takes a position that they broke the covenant and God is angry with them or something... He still knew them... Paul wrote that God entrusted His Holy Word with them....

So, where is Galatia? It is in modern Turkey, on the west-central part above Cyprus. By foot, it was about 1000 KM (over 600 miles) from Judea. These are not Jews... these were sun worshipers who became followers of Christ who began to fall back into the lives they left.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: SAAN
Upvote 0

Bob S

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 5, 2015
4,582
2,203
88
Union County, TN
✟656,769.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Think about how your conclusion paints God. You just said that "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul" or "Do not steal" or "Do not murder" is a ministry that brings death? That is not consistent with anything save for modern, dispensational, anomian thinking.
I would say it paints God the same way as the new covenants Royal Law of Love which you deny. Jesus asks Christians to keep His commandments ( love others as I have loved you),the new commandment unlike the one found in the book of the law, just as Jesus kept His Father's commandments. His Father's commandments was Torah which Jesus lived under and did abide by. By the way, if you love others as Jesus loves us will you steal or murder? Morality is forever, ritual laws given only to Israel and are now defunct.

The law contained the do's and don'ts but it ALSO contains our pronunciation of guilt. We are guilty, we deserve death... but through Yeshua we have life. It is just like this...
And the law does have a purpose as Paul writes, it points out sin. When we become Christians we are under Jesus law of Love. His blood covers us when we fail to live up to the expectations of the Royal law

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Based on your conclusion above, I imagine you like many others see this as the commandments being nailed to the cross. but again, that means "love the Lord thy God and Him only" gets nailed to the cross. "Do not steal" gets nailed to the cross and then what, we live lawlessly? No... our GUILT, the pronunciation of our guilt, the verdict of our guilt, is nailed to the cross. That is the curse that Yeshua came to reverse... he came to reverse the curse of death... but your conclusion has his coming to get rid of the 10 commandments??? The same commandments he faithfully followed?
It does nothing of the sort. You law proclaimers, when backed into a corner, use those thoughts as your tool to get out of that fateful corner. I have already, in this post, voiced my thoughts on the subject.
 
Upvote 0

Bob S

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 5, 2015
4,582
2,203
88
Union County, TN
✟656,769.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Galatians is so misunderstood, since is always read out of context many times. Gal 4:9 is clealry showing it is former pagans who have received the Messiah and they are trying to go back to some of what they used to do, is who Paul is talking to, but it is always seen as Feast Days were the weak and beggarly elements when they passage is cherry picked.
You keep telling us we are either taking verses out of context or Paul was referring not to Torah but to oral law. Show me in the following verses either one of your proclamations:
Gal3:15 Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed, meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bugkiller
Upvote 0

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,560
Winchester, KENtucky
✟308,895.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I would say it paints God the same way as the new covenants Royal Law of Love which you deny.

Why would you say such a thing? Just because I view the law differently than you means what, I think we work for our salvation and the letter of the law trumps love and/or the spirit of the law? Yeshua said that ALL the Torah and ALL the Prophets are summed up in loving God and neighbor (two commandments from the OT by the way, they are not "brand new"). That fact doesn't abrogate anything else, it just means those two sum up the rest.

Morality is forever, ritual laws given only to Israel and are now defunct.

I personally believe that we are a part of Israel. Bob, you speak about the new covenant, so I ask you, according to the bible alone... who is it made with? Please share the verse you use to make your point.

And the law does have a purpose as Paul writes, it points out sin.

Yes, and 1 John 3:4 defines sin as anomia... being outside of the law. Brother, grab a dictionary and look up righteousness.... we are to walk in righteousness... check out the definition.

When we become Christians we are under Jesus law of Love. His blood covers us when we fail to live up to the expectations of the Royal law.

Are you saying that the all powerful, all knowing, all seeing God can't see through blood? There is a better definition for Kippur, but it is becoming more and more archaic in English as our culture has gone pro-feminist and pro-PC. The word is a legal term, coverature. It means that the husband (Yeshua) is the authority of the wife (us) and our guilt has to be answered for by him (which he did) and through that we are forgiven. He assumed our guilt, that is what coverature meant in this country up until 50 years ago. A wife was almost NEVER prosecuted for anything... if she broke the law the husband answered and that is what happens with us and messiah. We broke the law and he answered and received our penalty. We sure get close to turning his blood into an idol when we take this too far the other direction.

It does nothing of the sort. You law proclaimers, when backed into a corner, use those thoughts as your tool to get out of that fateful corner. I have already, in this post, voiced my thoughts on the subject.
Again, if you believe that the commandments were nailed to the cross (which is what you teach) then you are saying love God, don't steal, no murder.... all that is nailed to the cross. Brother.. our GUILT is what is taken away, not "honor your mother and father" or "rest on the Sabbath day." The latter is a BLESSING given to us by a God who knows we NEED rest and NEED to set aside time to be with Him. You say bondage and I wrap my arms around Him on that day and cry DELIGHT just as King David did.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,560
Winchester, KENtucky
✟308,895.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator.

And the promise is perfection, restoration, renewal, the law on the mind and heart. The Law acted as a Schoolmaster which pointed to and led us to Christ THROUGH WHOM the same is taken from stone and placed directly on the heart as promised by God in Ezekiel 11:19 and 5-10 other prophetic verses that are saying the same exact thing.
 
Upvote 0