Rapture will happen..does it matter when?
- Thread starter TalwinStark
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With this post (#382), I am, at last, starting to grasp where you are coming from. I will now prepare a response to it, meanwhile I am posting number of question about the destruction of mankind.
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Vinsight4u, I’m asking for your view.
The four verses below describe certain acts of God, who in his wrath destroys mankind.
DESTRUCTION BY GOD’S WRATH
Revelation 14:19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath.
Is this the destruction of both the wicked and the righteous together in the great winepress of God’s wrath?
DESTRUCTION BY SWORD
Revelation 19:21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.
Does this verse describe the destruction of both the wicked and the righteous together with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse?
DESTRUCTION BY FIRE FROM HEAVEN
Revelation 20:9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
Does this verse describe God’s destruction of the wicked by fire coming down from heaven?
DESTRUCTION IN THE FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULPHUR
Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulphur. This is the second death.”
Does this verse describe the destruction of the wicked in the fiery lake of burning sulphur?
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The four verses describe four episodes of destruction; one by God’s wrath, one by the sword of the rider on the white horse, one by fire coming down from heaven, and one by being consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulphur.
Are each of these events, four separate incidents? And do they occur in the order which they are placed in the narrative?
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Psalm3704, I’m asking for your view.
The four verses below describe certain acts of God, who in his wrath destroys mankind.
DESTRUCTION BY GOD’S WRATH
Revelation 14:19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath.
Is this the destruction of both the wicked and the righteous together in the great winepress of God’s wrath?
DESTRUCTION BY SWORD
Revelation 19:21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.
Does this verse describe the destruction of both the wicked and the righteous together with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse?
DESTRUCTION BY FIRE FROM HEAVEN
Revelation 20:9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
Does this verse describe God’s destruction of the wicked by fire coming down from heaven?
DESTRUCTION IN THE FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULPHUR
Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulphur. This is the second death.”
Does this verse describe the destruction of the wicked in the fiery lake of burning sulphur?
--------------
The four verses describe four episodes of destruction; one by God’s wrath, one by the sword of the rider on the white horse, one by fire coming down from heaven, and one by being consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulphur.
Are each of these events, four separate incidents? And do they occur in the order which they are placed in the narrative?
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Mark, I’m asking for your view.
The four verses below describe certain acts of God, who in his wrath destroys mankind.
DESTRUCTION BY GOD’S WRATH
Revelation 14:19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath.
Is this the destruction of both the wicked and the righteous together in the great winepress of God’s wrath?
DESTRUCTION BY SWORD
Revelation 19:21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.
Does this verse describe the destruction of both the wicked and the righteous together with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse?
DESTRUCTION BY FIRE FROM HEAVEN
Revelation 20:9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
Does this verse describe God’s destruction of the wicked by fire coming down from heaven?
DESTRUCTION IN THE FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULPHUR
Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulphur. This is the second death.”
Does this verse describe the destruction of the wicked in the fiery lake of burning sulphur?
--------------
The four verses describe four episodes of destruction; one by God’s wrath, one by the sword of the rider on the white horse, one by fire coming down from heaven, and one by being consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulphur.
Are each of these events, four separate incidents? And do they occur in the order which they are placed in the narrative?
.
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Revelation 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.
When John told us "the rest of the dead", what did he mean?
It could not mean the rest of the dead from the Gog battle because you cannot have a Gog battle without the wicked being resurrected. Who would do the fighting? It had to be before the battle. Note that ((Revelation 19:21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.)) Or do you believe that ‘Jesus Christ coming on a white horse’ depicts a skirmish in the conflict, and not his coming at the end of time?
Where do you see a record of the saints rising to glory prior to Revelation 19?
He was captured alive. He was not slain in battle. ((Revelation 19:20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf.)) He was cast alive into the fiery lake of burning sulphur. ((Revelation 19:20 The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulphur.)) Is there any reason to question this clear statement? Do you have reason to believe that he would be killed and resurrected?
Who is the ‘false prophet?’ He is the ‘beast from the land.’ His partner is the ‘beast from the sea.’ I will share more. But first I ask you, who is the ‘beast from the sea?’ As they are partners.
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I am wondering, how do you divide the narrative of Revelation? How do you understand its structure?
I follow the structural divisions in the narrative, as put forward by Richard Bauckham and others.
PROSTITUTE
Revelation 17:1 introduces the narrative of the punishment of the ‘great prostitute.’ ((Revelation 17:1-3 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute...” Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman…))
BRIDE
Revelation 21:9 introduces the narrative of the ‘bride,’ the wife of the Lamb.’ ((Revelation 21:9-10 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.))
So both 17:1 and 21:9 introduce contrasting sections of narrative – one the prostitute, the other the bride.
Between these two sections lie the ‘white horse judgement’ which condemns the prostitute, and the ‘white throne judgement’ which ushers in God’s kingdom by determining who enters, and who does not enter.
Understanding this arrangement divides the narrative into the following sections.
- PROSTITUTE – 17:1 to 19:10
- JUDGEMENT OF THE PROSTITUTE – 19:11 to 20:10
- JUDGEMENT DETERMINING GOD’S PEOPLE 20:11 to 21:8
- BRIDE – 21:9 to 22:9
One outcome of this structure, is that a continual chronological flow of the narrative may not exist between the sections.
They need to be read as four divisions.
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Sorry that I have not answered more quickly. I have been unwell, and I’m still unwell. But that aside, I have appreciated your response.
We are in full agreement that in ‘three of the accounts of destruction’ recorded in Revelation, God only destroys the wicked -- Revelation 19, 20, and 21.
DESTRUCTION BY SWORD -- Revelation 19:21 Only the wicked will be at the battle at the end of Revelation 19.
DESTRUCTION BY FIRE FROM HEAVEN -- Revelation 20:9 – Only the wicked.
DESTRUCTION IN THE FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULPHUR -- Revelation 21:8 – These people died in their sins.
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PROPHESY AGAIN
Revelation 10:11 "And he said unto me, Thou ‘must prophesy again’..."
The announcement to ‘prophesy again’ introduces another prophecy. Some view this new prophecy as beginning abruptly at Revelation 12:1. But within ‘chapters 10 and 11’ there occurs an interweaving of the text, and while the previous prophecy concludes at the completion of the seventh trumpet (11:19), ‘chapters 10 and 11’ are already introducing the next.
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EATING THE BOOK – THE OUTCOME IS BITTERNESS
Revelation 10:10 "And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up..."
I would like to share at a later date regarding the reason for the ‘bitterness in the belly.’ My view, in short, is that the initial prophecy directed to the church found its climax in the ‘seventh trumpet,’ whereas the prophecy about the nations ((Revelation 10:11 “You must prophesy again about many peoples, nations, languages and kings.”)) ends in the ‘seventh plague.’
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IDENTIFYING THE ANGELS
Watch for how angels get seen by him doing various acts. When John sees that same angel again he lets us know. If a different angel does the same act that too he tells us. John will use the word "another."
I agree with you that we need to look for the clues to enable us to identify each of the participants throughout the book.
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THE SEALS AND THE FOUR HORSEMEN
Our opposing views here will probably keep us divided on all other points, so I will prepare a short study of my understanding of the horsemen.
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I WILL FOLLOW YOU HERE
Hopefully, then we can go into how no-Revelation 14 is not in the right place in the narrative. Chapters 12, 13, and the start of 15 come first.
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Joe Green, I am a member of the "Church of God of Prophecy" in Oklahoma.
It matters when the Rapture happens,so we can help others get ready for this
great event.
1 Thess. 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness that that day should overtake
you as a thief.
Heb. 10:25 --- as ye see the day approaching.
St. Matthew 24:37--- But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
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"The Rapture happens before the 7 year tribulation"
No doubt about it [Revelation 3:10]
Does it matter when?
If a man thinks this does not matter, then the man is meddling with the Lord's promise
This is not a good thing for the man who refutes, and the implications of his standing bear the marks of a scoffer
Who said this to the woman ?
Genesis
3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Do not let the devil and his ministers deceive you about the Lord's promise of significant things
A man does not want to have the door closed and to be spewed out into the tribulation of the Lord's wrath and judgment upon an unbelieving world [Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:15-19]
No doubt about it [Revelation 3:10]
Does it matter when?
If a man thinks this does not matter, then the man is meddling with the Lord's promise
This is not a good thing for the man who refutes, and the implications of his standing bear the marks of a scoffer
Who said this to the woman ?
Genesis
3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Do not let the devil and his ministers deceive you about the Lord's promise of significant things
A man does not want to have the door closed and to be spewed out into the tribulation of the Lord's wrath and judgment upon an unbelieving world [Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:15-19]
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Revealing Times
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In Rev. 20:5 it says the Dead will be Judged in a 1000 years, so after Satan is released, deceives the Nations and is destroyed one last time, all the Dead, including those destroyed by this Fire from God, will be Judged......You are misreading 20:5.
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