One Church or one church, means what, who is right?

yeshuaslavejeff

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What if He sent you people to bring you in the Church and the "joy" isn't something that's really from Him. Test the spirits, says the Lord. Also, it's spelled "saith", not sayeth.
Thus sayeth Y'SHUA - "follow ME, not man. Go WITH ME, in UNION WITH ME wherever I GO.
Do not trust man. MY JOY, not the world's (the world has no idea), MY JOY I GIVE YOU, and no one can take it away. " "LET MY PEACE RULE IN YOUR HEART. Not like the world, I GIVE YOU PEACE; PERFECT PEACE. Nothing shall take it away from you if you abide in ME."
 
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W2L

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What if He sent you people to bring you in the Church and the "joy" isn't something that's really from Him. Test the spirits, says the Lord. Also, it's spelled "saith", not sayeth.
What if, what if..

The just shall live by faith.
 
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sculleywr

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What if, what if..

The just shall live by faith.
That Faith was once delivered for all the Saints. Why make it harder on yourself trying to find and put together something God already put somewhere for it to be found as He intended in the context He intended?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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What if, what if..

The just shall live by faith.
Do exactly as Y'SHUA SAYS in the BIBLE BY FAITH - "what if"
"if they try to get you to their manmade building",
resist .... (i.e. don't go with them! You have already seen how unpeaceful it is there, and that is an understatement )
 
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W2L

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That Faith was once delivered for all the Saints. Why make it harder on yourself trying to find and put together something God already put somewhere for it to be found as He intended in the context He intended?

I see your conscience and faith is too weak to survive using online fellowship. You don't even go to church yourself, from what you told me previously, so whats your beef? You think I cant understand joy in the Lord without a teacher? Is it communion? Is you faith so weak you cant walk by faith without it? You keep nagging me, but I'm doing well.
 
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Berean777

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Really? He was attacking the establishment that God Himself established? I find that doubtful since He was part of the establishment as a Jewish Rabbi. Jesus is God. Jesus established the Jewish establishment. Jesus wouldn't then attack the establishment He established. You may as well say that Clinton hates the Clinton Foundation or that Trump hates Ivanka.

The harlot of Babylon wasn't built by God. To think that is to believe in heresy, pure and simple.

The definition of a harlot according to scripture is a religious system who has no legitimate husband, but continues to influence worldly kings, governors and others, by promulgating that Jesus and the disciples were an occult group, that they labeled the Nazarene Sect. This action by the Jewish religious institution of those days would essentially reject the husband that was sent to gather her.

Listen to what Jesus said.......

37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38Look, your house is left to you desolate. (Matthew 23:37-38)

Jesus as the husband who came to gather Jerusalem's children would finally decide to leave her, by saying look, your house is left to you desolate. This proclaiming by Jesus means that this religious establishment became a husbandless harlot.

Jesus was against the Jewish Church establishment and he would charge it with the murder of Abel, right through to the murder of Zechariah, who was the last Old Testament prophet. Though they had no hand in the murder of Abel, this means that Jesus denied the ligitamacy of this establishment from its beginnings, right until its end, when Jesus said your house I saw left to you desolate.

I am merely quoting Jesus and showing how he thought about this religious establishment.

John identifies who this harlot of Babylon is by the following statement.......

And their bodies will lie in the main street of Jerusalem, the city that is figuratively called "Sodom" and "Egypt," the city where their Lord was crucified. (Revelation 11:8)
 
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sculleywr

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I see your conscience and faith is too weak to survive using online fellowship. You don't even go to church yourself, from what you told me previously, so whats your beef? You think I cant understand joy in the Lord without a teacher? Is it communion? Is you faith so weak you cant walk by faith without it? You keep nagging me, but I'm doing well.
There is no fellowship online. It doesn't exist. I don't go to church not out of choice, but out of medical disability. Considering that I have a disease that is constantly trying to kill me, the most I can do is attend the occasional Bible studies that occur in town with families from my Church.

And no, you can't understand joy in the Lord without SUBMISSION. Submission to the brethren is necessary to the joy of the Lord, because the joy of the Lord cannot be found apart from obedience thereto. You are walking by faith, but that faith isn't the Faith once delivered for all the Saints. It is the faith you made up that is grounded, rooted, and focused on you. The Faith in God is focused on everything BUT the self.

Did Jesus flee from contrary thought? Did the Apostles flee from contention? Name one person in Scripture that fled from contention and was described as holy for doing so. You can't. So how can you flee contention and be holy? See, change and growth requires conflict. We must encounter something different, realize that it conflicts with our current way of thinking, and determine, whether by discussion, debate, experiment, or observation, whether we will change to match it, compromise with it, or reject it. That is how ALL learning is done. Literally all learning is done through conflict. And when we create our own "echo chamber" where all we hear are things that agree with our current viewpoint, then we hamper our ability to learn and grow, just as when a plant is surrounded by a lot of a single nutrient, but missing the other nutrients it needs.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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HALLELUYAH BROTHER ! and AMEIN IT IS SO !

"in SPIRIT and in TRUTH" as someone famous said :)
HEY! the same one said "not in buildings made with hands....." :)

I think you know this VERY WELL ! :)
 
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sculleywr

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The definition of a harlot according to scripture is a religious system who has no legitimate husband, but continues to influence worldly kings, governors and others, by promulgating that Jesus and the disciples were an occult group, that they labeled the Nazarene Sect. This action by the Jewish religious institution of those days would essentially reject the husband that was sent to gather her.

Listen to what Jesus said.......

37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38Look, your house is left to you desolate. (Matthew 23:37-38)

Jesus as the husband who came to gather Jerusalem's children would finally decide to leave her, by saying look, your house is left to you desolate. This proclaiming by Jesus means that this religious establishment became a husbandless harlot.

Jesus was against the Jewish Church establishment and he would charge it with the murder of Abel, right through to the murder of Zechariah, who was the last Old Testament prophet. Though they had no hand in the murder of Abel, this means that Jesus denied the ligitamacy of this establishment from its beginnings, right until its end, when Jesus said your house I saw left to you desolate.

I am merely quoting Jesus and showing how he thought about this religious establishment.

John identifies who this harlot of Babylon is by the following statement.......

And their bodies will lie in the main street of Jerusalem, the city that is figuratively called "Sodom" and "Egypt," the city where their Lord was crucified. (Revelation 11:8)
Since God created it, the legitimate husband of the Jewish system which Christ and the Apostles ALL partook in and celebrated as part of, is God Himself.

You ignored the fact that God established it. The relationship of Israel to God was always with God being faithful thereto, as described in the book of Nahum. Even though Israel turned its back on God, God didn't turn His back on Israel. This is why Paul even said that salvation is given "to the Jew First, and then also to the Gentile.
 
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W2L

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There is no fellowship online. It doesn't exist. I don't go to church not out of choice, but out of medical disability.
There is no fellowship online

You think God can heal the centurions servant without going to his home, and walk on water, raise the dead, but he cant join our online fellowship? We can and do fellowship here.

I don't go to church not out of choice, but out of medical disability.

I have my reasons as well.
 
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W2L

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HALLELUYAH BROTHER ! and AMEIN IT IS SO !

"in SPIRIT and in TRUTH" as someone famous said :)
HEY! the same one said "not in buildings made with hands....." :)

I think you know this VERY WELL ! :)
Yes indeed brother. Amen
 
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sculleywr

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You think God can heal the centurions servant without going to his home, and walk on water, raise the dead, but he cant join our online fellowship? We can and do fellowship here.



I have my reasons as well.
There was still physical contact. And the centurion later took part in the Church, as he was one of the founders of the Church in Rome, which was a physical gathering. Online "fellowship" is not fellowship. It is mail. It isn't real-time. It isn't physical.

Your reasons are mainly excuses. You make NO attempts to gather regularly, or to receive Communion.
 
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W2L

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There was still physical contact. And the centurion later took part in the Church, as he was one of the founders of the Church in Rome, which was a physical gathering. Online "fellowship" is not fellowship. It is mail. It isn't real-time. It isn't physical.

Your reasons are mainly excuses. You make NO attempts to gather regularly, or to receive Communion.
No, the servant was healed only with a word.

Does God need to touch you before he hears your prayers? How about those saints you pray to? Do you touch them?

Anything is possible for those who believe. I might not be able to move mountains or raise the dead, but I can fellowship online ,praise the lord.
 
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Berean777

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The fact is that the only reason there is compromise on both sides in a human relationship is because both sides are imperfect. God is not imperfect. A relationship with Him requires compromise only on one side of the equation: ours. We have to learn HIS ways of loving.

Your implying that "we have to learn HIS ways of loving" through a religious institution that becomes a third party in the relationship. So according to you not only does one need to compromise in order to supplicate to their immediate partner, but in the process the ways that you say Jesus wants you to supplicant to him in spiritual marriage, is through another party called the religious establishment. So in this regard the religious establishment that married you and your wife has to also be a third party to your marriage and that you don't have any say, how you ought to love your wife, unless a religious establishment tells you how.

Not only are you compromised in your relationship to how you as an individual should show your true heart's intentions, but everyone else except you makes the decision for you in your marriage. This type of marriage is no marriage at all, rather it is not you who becomes married to your wife, but rather your establishment and hence your personal feelings of how you love as a human being are not even been considered. This form of union is a state run union, no different to communism my friend and Jesus doesn't operate in this manner.

Jesus wants individuals to come to him by their own free will, Jesus isn't oppressing or forcing anyone to come to him, certainly if you recall how the disciples tried to prevent the children from coming to him, Jesus replied immediately as follows......

"Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." (Matthew 19:14)

There are no burdens placed on an individual's heart to come to Jesus by themselves, for it is written......

28Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” (Matthew 11:28-30)

The only party that was a stickler for placing burdens on individuals was the religious establishment that got in the way of people establishing this relationship with the living God.

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees (church hierarchy) , you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to (Matthew 23:13)

We have to understand one thing and it is that Jesus isn't placing any condition on how individuals are to come to him, because he knows we can only come in the state we are and he accepts us, because he it merciful and wants us to come as we are so that he can heal us, he is gentle, to not place any burden/conditions on us that would make us choke and throughout our lives he works in us ever so gently to bring us into that love relationship that will reveal to us who he is. Once we start being revealed who he is as he had promised in John 14:21, then we are bit by bit, being revealed here a little and there a little the absolute truth who is God himself in us, for the Kingdom of God is in us. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:28 God may be all in all.
 
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sculleywr

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No, the servant was healed only with a word.

Does God need to touch you before he hears your prayers? How about those saints you pray to? Do you touch them?

Anything is possible for those who believe. I might not be able to move mountains or raise the dead, but I can fellowship online ,praise the lord.
So the servant never came to Christ and made physical contact? And yes, I physically touch many of the saints I pray to, as I see them whenever I come to the Church. And the only way anything is possible is if we obey Christ's command to assemble PHYSICALLY TOGETHER. It's God's command. Not man's. God's. And if a person intentionally ignores God, how can he expect God to answer his prayers?
 
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sculleywr

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Your implying that "we have to learn HIS ways of loving" through a religious institution that becomes a third party in the relationship. So according to you not only does one need to compromise in order to supplicate to their immediate partner, but in the process the ways that you say Jesus wants you to supplicant to him in spiritual marriage, is through another party called the religious establishment. So in this regard the religious establishment that married you and your wife has to also be a third party to your marriage and that you don't have any say, how you ought to love your wife, unless a religious establishment tells you how.

Not only are you compromised in your relationship to how you as an individual should show your true heart's intentions, but everyone else except you makes the decision for you in your marriage. This type of marriage is no marriage at all, rather it is not you who becomes married to your wife, but rather your establishment and hence your personal feelings of how you love as a human being are not even been considered. This form of union is a state run union, no different to communism my friend and Jesus doesn't operate in this manner.

Jesus wants individuals to come to him by their own free will, Jesus isn't oppressing or forcing anyone to come to him, certainly if you recall how the disciples tried to prevent the children from coming to him, Jesus replied immediately as follows......

"Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." (Matthew 19:14)

There are no burdens placed on an individual's heart to come to Jesus by themselves, for it is written......

28Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” (Matthew 11:28-30)

The only party that was a stickler for placing burdens on individuals was the religious establishment that got in the way of people establishing this relationship with the living God.

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees (church hierarchy) , you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to (Matthew 23:13)

We have to understand one thing and it is that Jesus isn't placing any condition on how individuals are to come to him, because he knows we can only come in the state we are and he accepts us, because he it merciful and not once accepting us, he is gentle to not place any burden/conditions on us that would make us choke and throughout our lives he works in us ever so gently to bring us into that love relationship that will reveal to us who he is. Once we start being revealed who he is as he had promised in John 14:21, then we are being bit by bit, here a little and there a little the absolute truth who is God himself in us, for the Kingdom of God is in us. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:28 God may be all in all.
The Pharisees weren't the Church hierarchy, though. They were only a single sect out of six sects of Jews that were in the Jewish Church. The Sanhedrin were also only part of the hierarchy, too. There is no time where Christ condemns the HIERARCHY. He condemns individual members and groups of members. But He doesn't condemn the whole hierarchy. To be frank, the Pharisees weren't even part of the hierarchy, since they weren't actually priests of the Jewish hierarchy. So you completely failed to even come close to properly understanding this Scripture.

Christ never condemned the hierarchy, because that would be calling God a sinner, and Christ never did that.
 
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W2L

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So the servant never came to Christ and made physical contact? And yes, I physically touch many of the saints I pray to, as I see them whenever I come to the Church. And the only way anything is possible is if we obey Christ's command to assemble PHYSICALLY TOGETHER. It's God's command. Not man's. God's. And if a person intentionally ignores God, how can he expect God to answer his prayers?

You touch and kiss icons. Christ never commanded church attendance. Paul exhorts it but not commanding it, and he surely never meant I should join your church which kisses icons, and prays to saints whom they deem worthy to be one. . Stop oppressing people by putting them under your yoke. Your faith is weak.
 
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Berean777

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Since God created it, the legitimate husband of the Jewish system which Christ and the Apostles ALL partook in and celebrated as part of, is God Himself.

You ignored the fact that God established it. The relationship of Israel to God was always with God being faithful thereto, as described in the book of Nahum. Even though Israel turned its back on God, God didn't turn His back on Israel. This is why Paul even said that salvation is given "to the Jew First, and then also to the Gentile.

It doesn't matter how you think of it, rather it is all about what Jesus thought about it.....that is......

46Jesus replied, “And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.

47“Woe to you, because you build tombs for the prophets, and it was your ancestors who killed them. 48So you testify that you approve of what your ancestors did; they killed the prophets, and you build their tombs. 49Because of this, God in his wisdom said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute.’ 50Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, 51from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.

52“Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.”

53When Jesus went outside, the Pharisees and the teachers of the law began to oppose him fiercely and to besiege him with questions, 54waiting to catch him in something he might say.

This tells us what Jesus thought of the establishment and he summed it up in spades.

His charges against it was.......

It was an obstacle to individual's establishing a relationship with God because it placed burdens/conditions

It was corrupt from its beginnings and ended in the corrupt state

It was was finally dispatched by Jesus if you know what I mean and was told what wouldn't happen to it, or 70AD

God's thoughts is what I follow and not human reasonings to what God should or should not have done, to this harlot of Babylon .
 
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Berean777

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The Pharisees weren't the Church hierarchy, though. They were only a single sect out of six sects of Jews that were in the Jewish Church. The Sanhedrin were also only part of the hierarchy, too. There is no time where Christ condemns the HIERARCHY. He condemns individual members and groups of members. But He doesn't condemn the whole hierarchy. To be frank, the Pharisees weren't even part of the hierarchy, since they weren't actually priests of the Jewish hierarchy. So you completely failed to even come close to properly understanding this Scripture.

Christ never condemned the hierarchy, because that would be calling God a sinner, and Christ never did that.

Boy your way off there.
 
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sculleywr

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You touch and kiss icons. Christ never commanded church attendance. Paul exhorts it but not commanding it, and he surely never meant I should join your church which kisses icons, and prays to saints whom they deem worthy to be one. . Stop oppressing people by putting them under your yoke. Your faith is weak.
"Do not forsake the assembling together of the brethren as some have done" isn't an exhortation. It is a command.

And the Church Paul went to had and venerated Icons. We know this because we dug up their churches, which were covered in Icons and mosaics. So did the Jewish synagogues. Here's one of them:

Dura-West-Wall-and-Torah-Niche.jpg


That's a genuine Apostolic Era synagogue. So when you say he wouldn't go to a church that had Icons, I don't know what you're talking about. Luke was an Iconographer, we have his Icons of the Theotokos and Christ. Four of them still exist. Two are in India, taken there by Thomas. Two are in Greece on Mt. Athos. Here's an Icon that was copied from that Icon of Luke's:
Theotokos_Iverskaya.jpg


So when you say they wouldn't have Icons, you must be speaking of people from a different universe, because the Apostles in this universe certainly had Icons.
 
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