How can the grace of God be resisted by some yet received by others?

ToBeLoved · Sep 27, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Matthew 7:22-24Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’ 23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’a]">[a]b]">[b]

The Two Foundations
24 “Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them will be like a sensible man who built his house on the rock."
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Matthew 7:22-24Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

22 On that Day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord! Didn’t we prophesy in your name? Didn’t we expel demons in your name? Didn’t we perform many miracles in your name?’ 23 Then I will tell them to their faces, ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’[a]

24 “So, everyone who hears these words of mine and acts on them will be like a sensible man who built his house on bedrock.
-------------------------------------------------
Matthew 7:22-24New English Translation (NET Bible)

22 On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful deeds?’ 23 Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!’
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

What is this in reference to?

MennoSota · Sep 27, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
I didn't ask that. I asked

Are those who have been forgiven by Christ still considered a criminal?

The chosen are pardoned by God through Yeshua's sacrifice. We are criminals who will be with Christ in heaven.
Our sinful acts are still there (we can't undo our sin), but or crimes have been pardoned by the Judge.
I am eternally grateful.

Marvin Knox · Sep 27, 2016

EmSw said:
So I will ask you, were God's chosen predestined to eternal life or to God's wrath?

If you practiced any kind of good systematic approach to your theology you would know the following concerning the children of the flesh and the children of the promise (the elect). Any good student of scripture recognizes these things.

Romans 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: through Isaac your descendants will be named.” 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. 9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12 it was said to her, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 Just as it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.” 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

EmSw · Sep 27, 2016

Marvin Knox said:
If you practiced any kind of good systematic approach to your theology you would know the following concerning the children of the flesh and the children of the promise (the elect). Any good student of scripture recognizes these things.

Romans 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: through Isaac your descendants will be named.” 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. 9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12 it was said to her, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 Just as it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.” 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

Marvin, even if I tried a good systematic approach to my theology, I find the following passages concerning the children of Israel, or of promise.

Isaiah 1:4
Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
5 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.
6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.
7 Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.
8 And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.
9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
10 Hear the word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

I cannot just close my eyes to a passage as such, and think it means nothing. If I say I read and desire to learn from God's whole counsel, I must take what is said here and learn of the ways of God. The nation of Israel had sinned so wickedly, God called them Sodom and Gomorrah. He also said He will hide His eyes from them and not hear their prayers.

However, we are told what God told them what to do. We are told what would happen if they obeyed and what would happen if they disobeyed.

16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

Here God told Israel the remedy for their judgment. Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean, put away evil, and cease to do evil. Learn to do well.

We hear the next verse so much, but never really know what God is telling Israel. God told Israel, 'Let's reason together'. Let's prove, decide, judge, rebuke, correct, be right. God was telling them to judge themselves, rebuke themselves, correct themselves. Then, though their sins be as scarlet, they shall be white as snow.

Then we read, if the be willing and obedient, they shall eat the good of the land. However, if they refuse and rebel, God will devour them with the sword. Israel had two choice - either be willing and obedient, or refuse and rebel.

I also read these passages -

Isaiah 31:6
Turn ye unto him from whom the children of Israel have deeply revolted.

Jeremiah 3:21
A voice was heard upon the high places, weeping and supplications of the children of Israel: for they have perverted their way, and they have forgotten the Lord their God.

Jeremiah 32:30
For the children of Israel and the children of Judah have only done evil before me from their youth: for the children of Israel have only provoked me to anger with the work of their hands, saith the Lord.

Jeremiah 32:32
Because of all the evil of the children of Israel and of the children of Judah, which they have done to provoke me to anger, they, their kings, their princes, their priests, and their prophets, and the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Ezekiel 2:3
And he said unto me, Son of man, I send thee to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that hath rebelled against me: they and their fathers have transgressed against me, even unto this very day.

Ezekiel 6
5 And I will lay the dead carcases of the children of Israel before their idols; and I will scatter your bones round about your altars.
6 In all your dwelling places the cities shall be laid waste, and the high places shall be desolate; that your altars may be laid waste and made desolate, and your idols may be broken and cease, and your images may be cut down, and your works may be abolished.

All the above passages do not paint a pretty picture of God's chosen children. In fact, it's very dire. If I am wrong for not seeing what you are seeing with the children of promise, I ask the Lord to forgive me and set me straight.

MennoSota · Sep 27, 2016

EmSw said:
Marvin, even if I tried a good systematic approach to my theology, I find the following passages concerning the children of Israel, or of promise.

Isaiah 1:4
Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
5 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.
6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.
7 Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.
8 And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.
9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
10 Hear the word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

I cannot just close my eyes to a passage as such, and think it means nothing. If I say I read and desire to learn from God's whole counsel, I must take what is said here and learn of the ways of God. The nation of Israel had sinned so wickedly, God called them Sodom and Gomorrah. He also said He will hide His eyes from them and not hear their prayers.

However, we are told what God told them what to do. We are told what would happen if they obeyed and what would happen if they disobeyed.

16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

Here God told Israel the remedy for their judgment. Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean, put away evil, and cease to do evil. Learn to do well.

We hear the next verse so much, but never really know what God is telling Israel. God told Israel, 'Let's reason together'. Let's prove, decide, judge, rebuke, correct, be right. God was telling them to judge themselves, rebuke themselves, correct themselves. Then, though their sins be as scarlet, they shall be white as snow.

Then we read, if the be willing and obedient, they shall eat the good of the land. However, if they refuse and rebel, God will devour them with the sword. Israel had two choice - either be willing and obedient, or refuse and rebel.

I also read these passages -

Isaiah 31:6
Turn ye unto him from whom the children of Israel have deeply revolted.

Jeremiah 3:21
A voice was heard upon the high places, weeping and supplications of the children of Israel: for they have perverted their way, and they have forgotten the Lord their God.

Jeremiah 32:30
For the children of Israel and the children of Judah have only done evil before me from their youth: for the children of Israel have only provoked me to anger with the work of their hands, saith the Lord.

Jeremiah 32:32
Because of all the evil of the children of Israel and of the children of Judah, which they have done to provoke me to anger, they, their kings, their princes, their priests, and their prophets, and the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Ezekiel 2:3
And he said unto me, Son of man, I send thee to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that hath rebelled against me: they and their fathers have transgressed against me, even unto this very day.

Ezekiel 6
5 And I will lay the dead carcases of the children of Israel before their idols; and I will scatter your bones round about your altars.
6 In all your dwelling places the cities shall be laid waste, and the high places shall be desolate; that your altars may be laid waste and made desolate, and your idols may be broken and cease, and your images may be cut down, and your works may be abolished.

All the above passages do not paint a pretty picture of God's chosen children. In fact, it's very dire. If I am wrong for not seeing what you are seeing with the children of promise, I ask the Lord to forgive me and set me straight.

Sigh

Do you know what the Mosaic Covenant is? Do you know what God told Israel he would do if they didn't follow His laws and commands in the promised land?
The more I read your comments, the more I recognize that you are not well versed in the Bible.
Your zeal is misplaced by ignorance.

sdowney717 · Sep 27, 2016

EmSw said:
Marvin, even if I tried a good systematic approach to my theology, I find the following passages concerning the children of Israel, or of promise.

Isaiah 1:4
Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
5 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.
6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.
7 Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.
8 And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.
9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
10 Hear the word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

I cannot just close my eyes to a passage as such, and think it means nothing. If I say I read and desire to learn from God's whole counsel, I must take what is said here and learn of the ways of God. The nation of Israel had sinned so wickedly, God called them Sodom and Gomorrah. He also said He will hide His eyes from them and not hear their prayers.

However, we are told what God told them what to do. We are told what would happen if they obeyed and what would happen if they disobeyed.

16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

Here God told Israel the remedy for their judgment. Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean, put away evil, and cease to do evil. Learn to do well.

We hear the next verse so much, but never really know what God is telling Israel. God told Israel, 'Let's reason together'. Let's prove, decide, judge, rebuke, correct, be right. God was telling them to judge themselves, rebuke themselves, correct themselves. Then, though their sins be as scarlet, they shall be white as snow.

Then we read, if the be willing and obedient, they shall eat the good of the land. However, if they refuse and rebel, God will devour them with the sword. Israel had two choice - either be willing and obedient, or refuse and rebel.

I also read these passages -

Isaiah 31:6
Turn ye unto him from whom the children of Israel have deeply revolted.

Jeremiah 3:21
A voice was heard upon the high places, weeping and supplications of the children of Israel: for they have perverted their way, and they have forgotten the Lord their God.

Jeremiah 32:30
For the children of Israel and the children of Judah have only done evil before me from their youth: for the children of Israel have only provoked me to anger with the work of their hands, saith the Lord.

Jeremiah 32:32
Because of all the evil of the children of Israel and of the children of Judah, which they have done to provoke me to anger, they, their kings, their princes, their priests, and their prophets, and the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Ezekiel 2:3
And he said unto me, Son of man, I send thee to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that hath rebelled against me: they and their fathers have transgressed against me, even unto this very day.

Ezekiel 6
5 And I will lay the dead carcases of the children of Israel before their idols; and I will scatter your bones round about your altars.
6 In all your dwelling places the cities shall be laid waste, and the high places shall be desolate; that your altars may be laid waste and made desolate, and your idols may be broken and cease, and your images may be cut down, and your works may be abolished.

All the above passages do not paint a pretty picture of God's chosen children. In fact, it's very dire. If I am wrong for not seeing what you are seeing with the children of promise, I ask the Lord to forgive me and set me straight.

"Here God told Israel the remedy for their judgment. Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean, put away evil, and cease to do evil. Learn to do well."

Well that is the whole point, and the evidence is God is a God of mercy and also justice. And no one can keep the Law, everyone fails His Law.

James 2:8
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
James 2:9
but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

Which is why God says about those who will live.
Habakkuk 2New King James Version (NKJV)
2 I will stand my watch
And set myself on the rampart,
And watch to see what He will say to me,
And what I will answer when I am corrected.

The Just Live by Faith
2 Then the Lord answered me and said:

“Write the vision
And make it plain on tablets,
That he may run who reads it.
3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time;
But at the end it will speak, and it will not lie.
Though it tarries, wait for it;
Because it will surely come,
It will not tarry.

4 “Behold the proud,
His soul is not upright in him;
But the just shall live by his faith.

EmSw · Sep 27, 2016

MennoSota said:
Sigh

Do you know what the Mosaic Covenant is? Do you know what God told Israel he would do if they didn't follow His laws and commands in the promised land?
The more I read your comments, the more I recognize that you are not well versed in the Bible.
Your zeal is misplaced by ignorance.

I pray you will forgive me for not being as learned and wise as you.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

1 Corinthians 1:27
But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;

1 Corinthians 3:18
Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.

1 Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their own craftiness”;

MennoSota · Sep 27, 2016

EmSw said:
I pray you will forgive me for not being as learned and wise as you.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

1 Corinthians 1:27
But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;

1 Corinthians 3:18
Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.

1 Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their own craftiness”;

I don't claim to be learned and wise, but I also don't doggedly argue on an issue if I have no support for my argument.
I was once in your shoes. I was ignorant of God's word regarding his choosing. It took reading the Bible and having God open my eyes.
If you desire to let God honestly speak, I am sure he will guide you.

EmSw · Sep 27, 2016

sdowney717 said:
"Here God told Israel the remedy for their judgment. Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean, put away evil, and cease to do evil. Learn to do well."

Well that is the whole point, and the evidence is God is a God of mercy and also justice. And no one can keep the Law, everyone fails His Law.

I see the point as amending yourself if you fail at the law. WASH YOURSELVES, MAKE YOURSELVES CLEAN, PUT AWAY EVIL, AND CEASE TO DO EVIL. LEARN TO DO WELL.

God will have mercy on whom?

Proverbs 28:13
He who conceals his transgressions will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will find compassion (mercy).

Isaiah 55:7
Let the wicked forsake his way and the unrighteous man his thoughts; and let him return to the LORD, and He will have compassion (mercy) on him, and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon.

sdowney717 · Sep 27, 2016

EmSw said:
I see the point as amending yourself if you fail at the law. WASH YOURSELVES, MAKE YOURSELVES CLEAN, PUT AWAY EVIL, AND CEASE TO DO EVIL. LEARN TO DO WELL.

God will have mercy on whom?

Proverbs 28:13
He who conceals his transgressions will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will find compassion (mercy).

Isaiah 55:7
Let the wicked forsake his way and the unrighteous man his thoughts; and let him return to the LORD, and He will have compassion (mercy) on him, and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon.

Ecclesiastes 7:20New King James Version (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good
And does not sin.

So since all have sinned, then it is not of him who runs this race of life but of God who shows mercy.

EmSw · Sep 27, 2016

MennoSota said:
I don't claim to be learned and wise, but I also don't doggedly argue on an issue if I have no support for my argument.
I was once in your shoes. I was ignorant of God's word regarding his choosing. It took reading the Bible and having God open my eyes.
If you desire to let God honestly speak, I am sure he will guide you.

I gave you the Bible to read and you made light of my observations. If I can't give the Bible as support, where does one turn? Will the WCF suffice instead of the Bible?

Are you saying I am not being led by God?

EmSw · Sep 27, 2016

sdowney717 said:
Ecclesiastes 7:20New King James Version (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good
And does not sin.

That's why God tells us to make ourselves clean and cease to do evil.

sdowney717 · Sep 27, 2016

EmSw said:
That's why God tells us to make ourselves clean and cease to do evil.

Except we can not without His help.
And He helps by giving us a fresh start in Christ, behold if anyone is in Christ they are a new creation, old things have passed away, everything is now new. We get a clean slate.

Colossians 2:13-15New King James Version (NKJV)
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

MennoSota · Sep 27, 2016

EmSw said:
I gave you the Bible to read and you made light of my observations. If I can't give the Bible as support, where does one turn? Will the WCF suffice instead of the Bible?

Are you saying I am not being led by God?

You realize that not once have you shared your interpretation of Romans 9, Ephesians 1 and Ephesians 2. Instead you have gone back to cherry picking verses out of context.
Why? Why do you avoid these passages while cherry picking verses out of their context.
You have no legitimate argument, Ew. You run from full passages that show God's choice and predestination.

MennoSota · Sep 27, 2016

EmSw said:
That's why God tells us to make ourselves clean and cease to do evil.

Why do you insist on salvation by works? Read Galatians because your comments are what Paul rejected in Galatians.

EmSw · Sep 27, 2016

MennoSota said:
Why do you insist on salvation by works? Read Galatians because your comments are what Paul rejected in Galatians.

Because Jesus and Paul said so.

Eternal life is based upon doing good. You can't go through the back door and expect eternal life.

EmSw · Sep 27, 2016

sdowney717 said:
Except we can not without His help.
And He helps by giving us a fresh start in Christ, behold if anyone is in Christ they are a new creation, old things have passed away, everything is now new. We get a clean slate.

Colossians 2:13-15New King James Version (NKJV)
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

You better know we can't do it without Him.

If Jesus gives us a fresh start, we do still choose to live in the old man? I thought old things have passed away. It's because of the free choices we make. If we choose to stay in sin, it's called disobedience, and Jesus is not the author of salvation for those who are disobedient.

EmSw · Sep 27, 2016

MennoSota said:
You realize that not once have you shared your interpretation of Romans 9, Ephesians 1 and Ephesians 2. Instead you have gone back to cherry picking verses out of context.
Why? Why do you avoid these passages while cherry picking verses out of their context.
You have no legitimate argument, Ew. You run from full passages that show God's choice and predestination.

You choose to believe as you desire, and I choose to believe as I desire. When I give passages which state the chosen children of Israel were cut off from God, you freely choose not to believe that. You are free to believe what you want, but please don't push it on others.

Jezmeyah · Sep 27, 2016

bottomofsandal said:
Is the grace of God irresistible as the "I" in TULIP proclaims?

What enables some men to receive the grace of God unto salvation?

OTOH, what prevents some men from receiving God's grace?

Perhaps they don't receive, because they don't hear grace (which is unmerited favor = lovingkindness).. but what they hear is .. 'you must repent of your sins in order to be saved'. Implying 'you are not accepted or loved by God until you repent'.

That implication makes salvation something that you must earn.

However, the ministry of reconciliation requires to say, 'you have been forgiven by God' (to someone before they have repented) 'through His Son Jesus Christ who made payment for your sins all you have to do is accept what has been done for you'.

To accept is to say 'thank you for what you've done for me' before you might apologize to God for all the sinfulness you admit that you did.

It is by grace that anyone is saved, and nothing of ourselves. Salvation is a gift, not something that is earned.

Perhaps we don't mean to imply to the sinner that they must earn their salvation by repenting.. but that is the way that it sounds in some cases.

MennoSota · Sep 27, 2016

EmSw said:
You choose to believe as you desire, and I choose to believe as I desire. When I give passages which state the chosen children of Israel were cut off from God, you freely choose not to believe that. You are free to believe what you want, but please don't push it on others.

I show you the Mosaic Covenant, which you must be unaware of and you still run from Romans 9, Ephesians 1 and Ephesians 2. Why?
If you don't wish to be guided by God's word, you should really leave this discussion.

How can the grace of God be resisted by some yet received by others?

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