Christianity... and the fact of evolution

Bible Highlighter · Sep 26, 2016

Jamie Lee said:
Anyway, read Genesis carefully and come to your own conclusion about what it says. Maybe read Enoch as well.
Does it really matter? Not really. As we have demonstrated here, there are many ways that it can be interpretted. One does not need to choose between science and the Bible.
Belief in a 24 hour 6 day creation doesnt save you. Belief in Yeshua, the Christ, does.
Everything else is a matter of debate and speculation.
I think that a new model of Creation based on Genesis, Enoch, and science might be a worthwhile investigation.
But I better get on with my life. Ive spent too much time here.
Nice discussion, God bless!

There is no way you got Evolution from reading the Bible. You would not know of Macro Evolution if it was not for Darwin and or minds like his way of thinking.

...

Jamie Lee · Sep 26, 2016

JacksBratt said:
Years are based on revolutions around the sun. Days are based on rotations of the earth. The earth rotates once per day. It revolves around the sun once per year.

Other planets rotate much slower than the earth. Many have long days and many have long years. Venus has a day that is equal to 243 earth days. It's year is only 224.7 earth days.

In Genesis, God is speaking of the earth when He speaks of "there was evening, there was morning, the first day". He was not speaking of Jupiter or Saturn or Venus.

The author of Genesis was inspired by God. He penned the words that were God breathed and meant to be written.
If the God used evolution to make all the animals, and mankind, He would have told us.

However, He told us the each animal was created "according to it's kind". He did not say that He created a single organism and all the animals and man were formed from it.

God is explicit. He gives it to you straight. "there was evening, there was morning, the first day". Then, later in the Bible it reminds us that everything was created in six days. The Bible compares it to the week where we work six days and rest for one. Do you believe God or man?

God is explicit. He created each animal in one day according to it's kind. Do you believe God, or man?

There is no place for "all organisms being common ancestors"

Satan is the great deceiver. Evolution is one of his great deceptions. So is the deception that God does not exist and the deception that Satan, himself, does not exist. Be not deceived.

Nobody has observed one species of animal evolve into another species. Bacteria change to different bacteria. Dogs to different dogs. Fowl to different fowl. But never a fish to a lizard or frog. It is not observable.

It is not repeatable. We cannot, with all our technology, make one species evolve into another species that will reproduce, then another. Never has this happened. So it is not repeatable.

Since it is not observable or repeatable it cannot be measurable. The TOE is not science. No matter how hard they try to squeeze it in there. Creation is not science either... it is super natural. Neither is science. Science cannot prove either one. Therefore, we believe one or the other by faith. Each is a religion.

I know, but for some reason I couldnt figure out how to phrase what I meant by orbits around the sun.

Did God tell you everything about his creation process, including how particles, atoms, neutrons, and physics and gravity work? Why do you think God would feel it was neccessary to go through a step by step detailed process of how He did it?

Days in Genesis are defined by light and dark periods, see verse 5.

Even on Earth as it is now, light and dark cycles vary considerably. In the North and South poles in the winter time, night can last for several months.

If we were revolving around God before the creation of the sun as suggested in the book of Enoch, we dont know what kind of cycles were occuring. We dont know what the earths tilt was, its rotational speed, the size of God, or the distance from God to earth. All of these things can affect its cycles, as this explains:
"As you can see from this little rundown of the different planets in our Solar System, what constitutes a day depends entirely on your frame of reference. In addition to it varying depending on the planet in question, you also have to take into account seasonal cycles and where on the planet the measurements are being taken from."

Take it or leave it, but my theory is no less based on faith than yours. I base mine on Scriptures. We have a different opinion, not a different God.

JacksBratt · Sep 26, 2016

Jamie Lee said:
The sun wasnt created until day 4. So what were the days based on? God defines what He means by a day when it says in Genesis 1:5:

The days throughout Genesis are constant. He then creates the sun and moon as a metric.

Jamie Lee said:
God called the light "day," and the darkness He called "night."
So where was the light and darkness coming from, if not the sun?

Jesus is the light of the world. This is where the light came from. It is Jesus who created all things, google it.

Jamie Lee said:
On day 4, we see why God created the sun: to mark days.

Yes the days and nights were already ticking away. He created the sun to be a meter stick, a method to measure and keep track. Meanwhile the time for a day had already been established.

Jamie Lee said:
And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so. And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars.

So, here, we see that God also made the sun, moon and stars to mark the seasons as well. He made the sun, moon and stars to meter out the days, years, seasons. Time was already ticking and these luminaries were put there to measure it.

Jamie Lee said:
I also noticed that God used very specific wording: "let the earth produce living creatures". Not that He created them all individually-He told the earth to produce them, and it brought them forth.

Actually, He did not say "produce". He didn't even say "let the earth produce living creatures". The earth produced nothing on its own. It says "brought forth", and it says it just before it said 1/ so "God created", or 2/ "so God made", which means He created them. Secondly, it says the each was made "according to their kinds". All the different kinds all at once. Not over millennia.

Remember what Satan does. He says "did God not say" then twists the scripture. You have changed the words to make it sound like you are correct. Yet, other scripture negate your view even if it did say "earth produced".

Jamie Lee said:
It was based on Genesis that I began to doubt my previous 6 24 hour days interpretation, which is only a human tradition of interpretation.

This is not "only" human tradition. The literal day is a fact of creation that is reiterated in other scripture.

Jamie Lee said:
Im not trying to reconcile science with the Bible, In trying to understand what Genesis actually means. Im basing my opinions completely on Gods word, and this is the conclusion Ive reached after reading what it actually says several times.

If you are trying to base your opinion "completely" on Gods word...... then you have to take the six literal day view.

If you were to read this to a 10 year old, would they say..."sounds like billions of years to me"?

Read it again. Then ask..... "Could God do it just like it is written"? ... Did God tell us how He did it?

If He could do it this way and told us that He did it this way.... I'll bet my eternity that He did it this way.

Jamie Lee · Sep 26, 2016

Jason0047 said:
There is no way you got Evolution from reading the Bible. You would not know of Macro Evolution if it was not for Darwin and or minds like his way of thinking.

...

I can just imagine how people reacted after the discovery that the world rotated around the sun rather than he other way around.
"Thats impossible! God created the sun for the earth, not the other way around! It was created on day 4 and placed in the sky, so how could the earth be orbiting around it? This is in direct contradiction of scripture!"
It was a big deal then because it challenged everything people had always believed about how God made things. They thought it was in contradiction of scripture, but really it was just in contradiction of their interpretation of scripture. Since it wasnt in agreement with their beliefs they called it heresy.

Give it some time. It seems like a crazy idea to you now because your deepest longheld beliefs about how the world came to be are being challenged. But in time you will get used to the idea and it wont seem so radical or impossible.

Jamie Lee · Sep 26, 2016

JacksBratt said:
The days throughout Genesis are constant. He then creates the sun and moon as a metric.

Jesus is the light of the world. This is where the light came from. It is Jesus who created all things, google it.

Yes the days and nights were already ticking away. He created the sun to be a meter stick, a method to measure and keep track. Meanwhile the time for a day had already been established.

So, here, we see that God also made the sun, moon and stars to mark the seasons as well. He made the sun, moon and stars to meter out the days, years, seasons. Time was already ticking and these luminaries were put there to measure it.

Actually, He did not say "produce". He didn't even say "let the earth produce living creatures". The earth produced nothing on its own. It says "brought forth", and it says it just before it said 1/ so "God created", or 2/ "so God made", which means He created them. Secondly, it says the each was made "according to their kinds". All the different kinds all at once. Not over millennia.

Remember what Satan does. He says "did God not say" then twists the scripture. You have changed the words to make it sound like you are correct. Yet, other scripture negate your view even if it did say "earth produced".

This is not "only" human tradition. The literal day is a fact of creation that is reiterated in other scripture.

If you are trying to base your opinion "completely" on Gods word...... then you have to take the six literal day view.

If you were to read this to a 10 year old, would they say..."sounds like billions of years to me"?

Read it again. Then ask..... "Could God do it just like it is written"? ... Did God tell us how He did it?

If He could do it this way and told us that He did it this way.... I'll bet my eternity that He did it this way.

Of course He could, but did He?

It depends on translation. NIV says "produce" while KJV says "bring forth".
11Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so.12The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good

What do you find so theatening about the idea that God might have created the world differently than you think? Why would Satan try to make us believe God used evolution? Isnt his goal to drive us farther from God? Wouldnt he want us to believe modern science is incompatible with the Bible so we would lose our faith? What does it matter whether we believe the world was created in 6 days or a billion years if we believe God created it?
There are millions of things we might disagree with in Scripture... different ways to interpret them. This is the least threatening to our faith. Indeed, many turn away from God because they believe they must choose between the Bible and science. Wouldnt it be better to not make it a big issue or matter of faith, like Paul says not to argue over words?

2 Timothy 2:14
Remind everyone about these things, and command them in God's presence to stop fighting over words. Such arguments are useless, and they can ruin those who hear them.

Therefore, since the scriptures tell us not to argue over trivial things like the meanings of words, Im going to end my argument. The important thing is faith in God, not ones own opinions.

JacksBratt · Sep 26, 2016

Jamie Lee said:
I know, but for some reason I couldnt figure out how to phrase what I meant by orbits around the sun.

No worries.

Jamie Lee said:
Did God tell you everything about his creation process, including how particles, atoms, neutrons, and physics and gravity work? Why do you think God would feel it was neccessary to go through a step by step detailed process of how He did it?

He told us step by step so that we could avoid falling for the TOE.

Why would God need to tell me about atoms and neutrons? He did tell us:

Creation is made of particles, indiscernible to our eyes (Hebrews 11:3). Not until the 19th century was it discovered that all visible matter consists of invisible elements.

When dealing with disease, clothes and body should be washed under running water (Leviticus 15:13). For centuries people naively washed in standing water. Today we recognize the need to wash away germs with fresh water.

Sanitation industry birthed (Deuteronomy 23:12-13). Some 3,500 years ago God commanded His people to have a place outside the camp where they could relieve themselves. They were to each carry a shovel so that they could dig a hole (latrine) and cover their waste. Up until World War I, more soldiers died from disease than war because they did not isolate human waste.

Light can be divided (Job 38:24). Sir Isaac Newton studied light and discovered that white light is made of seven colors, which can be “parted” and then recombined. Science confirmed this four centuries ago – God declared this four millennia ago!

God told us a lot of things. You just have to look through the scriptures.

Jamie Lee said:
Days in Genesis are defined by light and dark periods, see verse 5.

If Christ, the light of the world, was on one side of the earth, as it rotated.... would there not be light and dark periods?

Jamie Lee said:
Even on Earth as it is now, light and dark cycles vary considerably. In the North and South poles in the winter time, night can last for several months.

So, are you saying that the people way up north can have 365 really long days while the rest of us have short ones?

That makes no sense. The earth spins once every 0.99 days. You can go anywhere on the face of this earth and the amount of sun you get may vary but a day, is a day, is a day.

Jamie Lee said:
If we were revolving around God before the creation of the sun as suggested in the book of Enoch, we dont know what kind of cycles were occuring. We dont know what the earths tilt was, its rotational speed, the size of God, or the distance from God to earth.

Yes, we do... "there was evening, there was morning, the first day".... this is repeated for each day. There is no indication that the length of day changes. We have no need to believe that it changes.

The only time that the length of day needs to be altered, skewed, stretched, ignored, questioned, argued, debated, denied.... is if you have another agenda where you need to create yourself some more time.

Jamie Lee said:
Take it or leave it, but my theory is no less based on faith than yours. I base mine on Scriptures. We have a different opinion, not a different God.

Do you really base yours on scriptures?

In John 5:45–47, Jesus says, “Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

In this passage, Jesus makes it clear that one must believe what Moses wrote. And one of the passages in the writings of Moses in Exodus 20:11 states: “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.”

We should also note the way Jesus treated as historical fact the accounts in the Old Testament, which religious and atheistic skeptics think are unbelievable mythology. These historical accounts include:

Adam and Eve as the first married couple (Matthew 19:3–6; Mark 10:3–9),

Abel as the first prophet who was killed (Luke 11:50–51),

Noah and the Flood (Matthew 24:38–39),

Moses and the serpent in the wilderness (John 3:14),

Moses and the manna from heaven to feed the Israelites in the wilderness (John 6:32–33, 49),

the experiences of Lot and his wife (Luke 17:28–32),

the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah (Matthew 10:15),

the miracles of Elijah (Luke 4:25–27),

Jonah and the big fish (Matthew 12:40–41)

As New Testament scholar John Wenham has compellingly argued, Jesus did not allegorize these accounts but took them as straightforward history, describing events that actually happened just as the Old Testament describes.

Taken from:

https://answersingenesis.org/days-of-creation/did-jesus-say-he-created-in-six-literal-days/

Jamie Lee · Sep 26, 2016

JacksBratt said:
No worries.

He told us step by step so that we could avoid falling for the TOE.

Why would God need to tell me about atoms and neutrons? He did tell us:

Creation is made of particles, indiscernible to our eyes (Hebrews 11:3). Not until the 19th century was it discovered that all visible matter consists of invisible elements.

When dealing with disease, clothes and body should be washed under running water (Leviticus 15:13). For centuries people naively washed in standing water. Today we recognize the need to wash away germs with fresh water.

Sanitation industry birthed (Deuteronomy 23:12-13). Some 3,500 years ago God commanded His people to have a place outside the camp where they could relieve themselves. They were to each carry a shovel so that they could dig a hole (latrine) and cover their waste. Up until World War I, more soldiers died from disease than war because they did not isolate human waste.

Light can be divided (Job 38:24). Sir Isaac Newton studied light and discovered that white light is made of seven colors, which can be “parted” and then recombined. Science confirmed this four centuries ago – God declared this four millennia ago!

God told us a lot of things. You just have to look through the scriptures.

If Christ, the light of the world, was on one side of the earth, as it rotated.... would there not be light and dark periods?

So, are you saying that the people way up north can have 365 really long days while the rest of us have short ones?

That makes no sense. The earth spins once every 0.99 days. You can go anywhere on the face of this earth and the amount of sun you get may vary but a day, is a day, is a day.

Yes, we do... "there was evening, there was morning, the first day".... this is repeated for each day. There is no indication that the length of day changes. We have no need to believe that it changes.

The only time that the length of day needs to be altered, skewed, stretched, ignored, questioned, argued, debated, denied.... is if you have another agenda where you need to create yourself some more time.

Do you really base yours on scriptures?

In John 5:45–47, Jesus says, “Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

In this passage, Jesus makes it clear that one must believe what Moses wrote. And one of the passages in the writings of Moses in Exodus 20:11 states: “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.”

We should also note the way Jesus treated as historical fact the accounts in the Old Testament, which religious and atheistic skeptics think are unbelievable mythology. These historical accounts include:

Adam and Eve as the first married couple (Matthew 19:3–6; Mark 10:3–9),

Abel as the first prophet who was killed (Luke 11:50–51),

Noah and the Flood (Matthew 24:38–39),

Moses and the serpent in the wilderness (John 3:14),

Moses and the manna from heaven to feed the Israelites in the wilderness (John 6:32–33, 49),

the experiences of Lot and his wife (Luke 17:28–32),

the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah (Matthew 10:15),

the miracles of Elijah (Luke 4:25–27),

Jonah and the big fish (Matthew 12:40–41)

As New Testament scholar John Wenham has compellingly argued, Jesus did not allegorize these accounts but took them as straightforward history, describing events that actually happened just as the Old Testament describes.

Taken from:

https://answersingenesis.org/days-of-creation/did-jesus-say-he-created-in-six-literal-days/

I believe everything the Bible says and take it as fact. What I think it says does not seem to be the same as what you think it says.

And your definition of day seems to differ from what the Bible says, which bases a Sabbath day from sunset to sunset, not the earths rotation.

I think everything I stated is clear enough. Hopefully it will help somebody who is struggling with the idea that the Bible isnt lining up with science to see that isnt true. That is my only agenda.

Have a blessed day.

RedPonyDriver · Sep 26, 2016

Are you SURE that an earth day has remained steady throughout history?

AV1611VET · Sep 26, 2016

RedPonyDriver said:
Are you SURE that an earth day has remained steady throughout history?

With two exceptions, I'm sure.

Kristen Johnson · Sep 26, 2016

Indent said:
If evolution is one of the strongest explanatory theories in any academic field, I mean, the evidence is simply overwhelming, how do Christians reconcile this?

What about the Biblical scholars that generally dismiss Genesis as a "historical" representation... but rather "myth" (however you want to define that)?

I understand I'm courting "controversy" here, but I'd genuinely like to hear this, supposedly, untouchable theological answer.

I think it's easy - evolution and God both exist. It's easy to worship a God who created something as beautiful and interesting as evolution.

AV1611VET · Sep 26, 2016

Kristen Johnson said:
It's easy to worship a God who created something as beautiful and interesting as evolution.

Charles Darwin?

Indent · Sep 26, 2016

AV1611VET said:
Charles Darwin?

What about Charles Darwin?

It's an affirmation of the majesty of God to have created us wholesale (evolution) rather than retail (Genesis mythology). I think certain Christians need to get over it. Evolution is a fact.

klutedavid · Sep 26, 2016

Luke17:37 said:
No; every line--and every letter--of Scripture was written by God. That is the truth. (2 Timothy 3:16)

See also Matthew 4:4; Matthew 5:18; Matthew 22:23-33; Matthew 19:3-6; John 1:1-3, John 1:14; Hebrews 4:12-13, Revelation 19:13.

Hello Luke.

The idea that the Bible is inerrant and every line in the Bible is handwritten by God, is clearly untrue.

The Bible actually contains letters in the New Testament, written by different authors, that directly
refutes the idea of inerrancy.

The first four letters of the New Testament were written by four different authors. So we would expect
to read, four different versions of the life of the Christ. If God is handwriting each of these four letters,
then of course, we will not detect any error in these texts. If these Gospels are written by the hand of
man, then we will detect variations in each account, errors when describing the same event, e.t.c.

There is one specific event in the life of the Christ, that will clearly prove that the Gospels were not
handwritten by God.

Let's read about a single event in the Gospels, from the four different Gospel accounts.

Matthew 28
2 for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled away the stone and sat upon it.
3 And his appearance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow.

One angel, sitting on the stone, appeared like lightning, white clothing.

Mark 16
5 Entering the tomb, they saw a young man sitting at the right, wearing a white robe; and they were amazed.

One young man sitting at the right, wearing a white robe.

Luke 24
4 While they were perplexed about this, behold two men suddenly stood near them in dazzling clothing.

Two men, standing and not sitting, dessed in dazzling clothes.

John 20
12 and she saw two angels in white sitting, one at the head and one at the feet, where the body of Jesus
had been lying.

Two angels, not men, dressed in white, sitting and not standing, in different positions.

This narration of this event is different in each of the four Gospels. God is not confused and handwriting
different accounts.

These Gospels are written by fallible men, inspired to write accounts but the accounts are fallible.

God's perfect plan, the perfect revelation of the perfect Christ, so beautifully immersed into the history of
a very fallible Israel.

ken777 · Sep 26, 2016

klutedavid said:
Hello Luke.

The idea that the Bible is inerrant and every line in the Bible is handwritten by God, is clearly untrue.

The Bible actually contains letters in the New Testament, written by different authors, that directly
refutes the idea of inerrancy.

The first four letters of the New Testament were written by four different authors. So we would expect
to read, four different versions of the life of the Christ. If God is handwriting each of these four letters,
then of course, we will not detect any error in these texts. If these Gospels are written by the hand of
man, then we will detect variations in each account, errors when describing the same event, e.t.c.

There is one specific event in the life of the Christ, that will clearly prove that the Gospels were not
handwritten by God.

Let's read about a single event in the Gospels, from the four different Gospel accounts.

Matthew 28
2 for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled away the stone and sat upon it.
3 And his appearance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow.

One angel, sitting on the stone, appeared like lightning, white clothing.

Mark 16
5 Entering the tomb, they saw a young man sitting at the right, wearing a white robe; and they were amazed.

One young man sitting at the right, wearing a white robe.

Luke 24
4 While they were perplexed about this, behold two men suddenly stood near them in dazzling clothing.

Two men, standing and not sitting, dessed in dazzling clothes.

John 20
12 and she saw two angels in white sitting, one at the head and one at the feet, where the body of Jesus
had been lying.

Two angels, not men, dressed in white, sitting and not standing, in different positions.

This narration of this event is different in each of the four Gospels. God is not confused and handwriting
different accounts.

These Gospels are written by fallible men, inspired to write accounts but the accounts are fallible.

God's perfect plan, the perfect revelation of the perfect Christ, so beautifully immersed into the history of
a very fallible Israel.

Biblical Christians are able to harmonize the 4 Gospels accounts of the resurrection of Jesus. There really is no need for this sort of misunderstanding in these days of computers.

Paul of Eugene OR · Sep 26, 2016

Jamie Lee said:
I can just imagine how people reacted after the discovery that the world rotated around the sun rather than he other way around.
"Thats impossible! God created the sun for the earth, not the other way around! It was created on day 4 and placed in the sky, so how could the earth be orbiting around it? This is in direct contradiction of scripture!"
It was a big deal then because it challenged everything people had always believed about how God made things. They thought it was in contradiction of scripture, but really it was just in contradiction of their interpretation of scripture. Since it wasnt in agreement with their beliefs they called it heresy.

Give it some time. It seems like a crazy idea to you now because your deepest longheld beliefs about how the world came to be are being challenged. But in time you will get used to the idea and it wont seem so radical or impossible.

Excellent post. The bottom line is, mankind is uncovering more and more of the history of our world and our universe. We are living at a time when so much more is being discovered. These discoveries are founded in good evidence and the scientists show us, time after time, they have managed to get things right. Their mastery of atomic science is demonstrated for us all by the fact of bombs and nuclear power plants; and in spite of this concrete proof of their mastery, they are challenged as being grossly incompetent when they discuss radiometric date setting.

Only those interpretations of the Bible that are consistent with what God actually created . . . and by that, I mean a world with a history of evolution and deep time that allows for evolution . . . will be able to survive the test of time (should our Lord tarry).

ken777 · Sep 26, 2016

Indent said:
The "errors" are representative of an ancient worldview, which is what a person would expect from an ancient document, and it's inescapable no matter how loud the evangelical rhetoric.

Just like Christians are inescapably part of a community now. The performative "Christ-likeness" we see today differs from region to region (South America, Africa, England, the Bible belts in America), and evangelicalism mind finds its roots in 19th and 20th century developments. It's a reaction. It has been mentioned in this thread that evolution a debated topic in other part of the world, but it's a politically entrenched "controversy" in America.

The interpretation of Genesis has been going for more than a millennium. Where Augustine had written several book on Genesis a thousand years before the scientific revolution, and cautioned Christians of the dangerous pitfalls he foresaw.

I don't live in any of the areas you mentioned

The inspiration and accuracy of the Scriptures is confirmed by Jesus and the apostles.
Before you consign the creation of Adam & Eve to mythology I recommend you study the dozen or so references to Adam & Eve in the NT starting with Matthew 19:4-5 & Mark 10:6-9.

mmksparbud · Sep 26, 2016

I do not see any co-relation between Alaska's dark times and reading that Gen. means thousands of years of darkness. In Alaska it is not pitch black, without any sunlight at all-- and it lasts a few months---not thousands of years. A day is set by rotation of the earth---everything in the Gen. account is what is happening on earth, not on Jupiter or anywhere else, so we should keep it to the earth. God's universe is not limited to this, and in His realm one day may last a thousand years. but He is talking about this earth, the times He set up for this world and He works with us within those times. He set up light and darkness without the sun---that is obvious. It is also obvious that He chose to offer no explanation for how He accomplished that. How much is the difference between light and darkness? When it is pitch black, there is no light--one candle is a lot of light in comparison. There is also the invisible light, it is still light and is very much real. There is also light that is seeping in from far off quasars. It is enough to know that He set up no light, and light. There is just no way to make this light and darkness that he calls one day--mean 1000's of years for each segment. Was Adam all alone except for animals, for 1000's of years before God finally figured out that He needed Eve? It took 6 days. the vegetation was in day 3---that means that there were several times were that vegetation would have had 1000's of years spend in darkness for each of those other 3 days. And Adam would have been in darkness for 1000's of years after he was formed. It just doesn't add up.

RedPonyDriver · Sep 26, 2016

AV1611VET said:
With two exceptions, I'm sure.

That would be negatory good buddy
http://arxiv.org/pdf/physics/0304093.pdf

From the conclusion
We have constructed a model for the variation of length of the day with time. It is based on the idea of an effective Newton’s constant as an effective coupling representing all gravitational effects on a body. This variation can be traced back over the whole history of the Earth. We obtained an empirical law for the variation of the length of the day and the number of days in a year valid for the entire past Earth’s rotation. We have found that the day was 6 hours when the Earth formed. These data pertaining to the early rotation of the Earth can help paleontologists to check their data with this findings. The change in the strength of gravity is manifested in the way it influences the growth of biological systems. Some biological systems (rythmites, tidalites, etc) adjust their rhythms with the lunar motion (or the tide). Thus any change in the latter system will show up in the former. These data can be inverted and used as a geological calendar. The data we have obtained for the length of the day and the number of days in the year should be tested against any possible data pertaining to the past’s Earth rotation. Our empirical law has been tested over an interval as far back as 4500 m.y. and is found to be in consistency with the experimental data so far known. In this work we have arrived at a generalized Kepler’s laws that can be applicable to our ever changing Earth-Moon-Sun system

Indent · Sep 26, 2016

ken777 said:
I don't live in any of the areas you mentioned
The inspiration and accuracy of the Scriptures is confirmed by Jesus and the apostles.
Before you consign the creation of Adam & Eve to mythology I recommend you study the dozen or so references to Adam & Eve in the NT starting with Matthew 19:4-5.

The bible isn't inerrant.

While I agree there a form of inspiration, I have no patience for a simplistic notion of "inerrancy."

ken777 · Sep 26, 2016

Indent said:
The bible isn't inerrant.
While I agree there a form of inspiration, I have no patience for a simplistic notion of "inerrancy."

That is a hardly an argument!
Show me where Jesus and the apostles questioned the accuracy of the Scriptures?
Examples of figurative speech (like sunrise, sunset etc) are not errors.

You really do need to address the issue of Adam & Eve in the NT because the evolution of humans from animals depends on you discrediting all these NT references.

Christianity... and the fact of evolution

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