Drinking a beer does not go against Bible

CaptainToad

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Jason,
It is the job of the Holy Spirit to transform lives. We are messengers only. I told you I agree with you regarding the danger of alcohol and that I am a teetotaler myself. However, I am teetotaler because I don't like the effect of alcohol on me. The power of the Scriptures is not in the text itself, but in the Holy Spirit who makes the text alive. You use Scripture like a machine gun. Your posts will change only those who the Holy Spirit speaks to.

When I first became a believer with the new birth 30 years ago, I immediately threw out my coffee, inappropriate content and pot. Six months later I felt fatigue so much that I began drinking coffee again. I also began to drink so much that one morning I woke up with a severe head ache. I groaned, O God, I have a head ache. I was not intentionally praying only lamenting. However the Lord spoke to me and said, "You chose to". That was it. But the Word of the Lord is pure as silver refined in fire seven times. Those three words were pregnant with meaning that I understood immediately. First, He had delivered me from drinking coffee and my resumption consumption was my choice. Second, I have the freedom in Christ to consume what ever I want with out condemnation from God or others. Third, if I am stupid enough to drink coffee to the point of getting a headache, then I was not to complain to God for my choice.

You have not attacked anyone as far as from what I have read, but your use of the Scriptures puts readers off. People want to talk out their views in forums, not be inundated with Scriptures. To paraphrase Jesus, The Scriptures were made for man, not man for the Scriptures. Anyone can cut and paste verses into a forum. Such use should be poignant and brief to make a point - not to make your case. You had stated your case many times, but you continue in the vain belief that you are helping God, but you are not. No one helps God. He helps us. If He is not helping us, then we should stop doing what we are doing.

Your experience is similar to mine in part. the other part I have yet to accimplish or He in me
 
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AlexDTX

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Your experience is similar to mine in part. the other part I have yet to accimplish or He in me
Watchman Nee said in one of his books that the Lord speaks to his body. In other words, when the Lord speaks to us, others in similar vein will hear something like what we heard. This is one way that God confirms His spoken word to us. Of course, what God says will also agree with what the Scriptures say. After my last post to Jason, I felt that the Lord was giving me the paraphrase that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. God gave us the Scriptures to confirm the word he speaks to us personally. The Lord's blessing is on us all because all his blessings are in Christ. Stay close to the Lord, Cappy.
 
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CaptainToad

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Watchman Nee said in one of his books that the Lord speaks to his body. In other words, when the Lord speaks to us, others in similar vein will hear something like what we heard. This is one way that God confirms His spoken word to us. Of course, what God says will also agree with what the Scriptures say. After my last post to Jason, I felt that the Lord was giving me the paraphrase that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. God gave us the Scriptures to confirm the word he speaks to us personally. The Lord's blessing is on us all because all his blessings are in Christ. Stay close to the Lord, Cappy.


He has not only given us the scriptures to confirm his word but given us the scriptures to confirm us and have us see us in the various things that happened to the people mentioned in the bible. Currently I have an ongoing situation which I have no power over and today happened something awkward which wad very circumstantial and again I had no power over and it just happened. It confirmed me in one obvious thing: The Lord is the sovereign Lord and He does as He does. His agenda is not necessarily my agenda.

... in regard to all this: wine is a very small matter
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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It was unfermented wine (i.e. wine that had not undergone the fermentation process whereby it is highly alcoholic). For wine is referred to as either unfermented or fermented.

See definition 3 here at Dictionary.com

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/wine


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Passover is not grape harvest time; He must have frozen it the previous fall to keep it from fermenting; for consumption that following spring.

That would work!
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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The time it will ferment on the vine is if something breaks the skin whereby the yeast eats the sugar within the grapes. The alcohol is the by-product or poop from the micro-organism known as yeast. The sugars themselves do not ferment without the yeast. Bees can puncture these grape clusters causing early fermentation.

Intense rains can wash off this yeast and prevent fermentation.

But again, there is no reason to assume that they stored the fermented juice of grapes. They could have easily just drank fresh juice. But if they did store grape juice, they could have easily boiled it or kept it cool in clay jars under the water.


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Yep, lots of cold water in the middle east.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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They did not need to store it. The wedding could have taken place during the harvest of grapes. If they did store the grapes, then they could have boiled the juice or they could have kept it cool in clay jars under the water.


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Fuel to burn to boil grape juice would have been cost prohibitive, when the God given preservative of fermentation was omnipresent, fuel would not have been wasted. Jerusalem was not heavily forested, there was no coal; but a bit of camel, sheep and horse dung; this would have been saved for cooking and heating.
 
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Jason,
It is the job of the Holy Spirit to transform lives. We are messengers only. I told you I agree with you regarding the danger of alcohol and that I am a teetotaler myself. However, I am teetotaler because I don't like the effect of alcohol on me. The power of the Scriptures is not in the text itself, but in the Holy Spirit who makes the text alive. You use Scripture like a machine gun. Your posts will change only those who the Holy Spirit speaks to.

Please stay on topic and use Scripture please.
Baseless ad hominems does not help to prove your case but only hinders it.

AlexDTX said:
When I first became a believer with the new birth 30 years ago, I immediately threw out my coffee, inappropriate content and pot. Six months later I felt fatigue so much that I began drinking coffee again. I also began to drink so much that one morning I woke up with a severe head ache. I groaned, O God, I have a head ache. I was not intentionally praying only lamenting. However the Lord spoke to me and said, "You chose to". That was it. But the Word of the Lord is pure as silver refined in fire seven times. Those three words were pregnant with meaning that I understood immediately. First, He had delivered me from drinking coffee and my resumption consumption was my choice. Second, I have the freedom in Christ to consume what ever I want with out condemnation from God or others. Third, if I am stupid enough to drink coffee to the point of getting a headache, then I was not to complain to God for my choice.

Drinking coffee is not the same as drinking alcohol. Oh, and no, a Christian cannnot drink whatever they want without condemnation from God. They cannot drink 151 straight. That would be bad on their stomach and their liver. It would defiling the temple of God. Not to mention it would not take all that much to get drunk off it, too. In fact, even moderate use of regular alcholic drinks can lead to health problems and potential addiction (Which can lead one to potentially be a drunkard). And the Bible condemns drunkenness (1 Corinthians 6:10).

AlexDTX said:
You have not attacked anyone as far as from what I have read, but your use of the Scriptures puts readers off. People want to talk out their views in forums, not be inundated with Scriptures. To paraphrase Jesus, The Scriptures were made for man, not man for the Scriptures. Anyone can cut and paste verses into a forum. Such use should be poignant and brief to make a point - not to make your case. You had stated your case many times, but you continue in the vain belief that you are helping God, but you are not. No one helps God. He helps us. If He is not helping us, then we should stop doing what we are doing.

Jesus quoted Scripture to defeat the devil. 1 Timothy 3:16-17 says, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." Jesus says man shall not live by bread alone but by ever word of God that proceeds out of his mouth (Matthew 4:4). Jesus said, "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;" (John 8:31). Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17); And it is by the washing of the water of the Word whereby Christ sanctifies the church (Ephesians 5:25-26).


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He has not only given us the scriptures to confirm his word but given us the scriptures to confirm us and have us see us in the various things that happened to the people mentioned in the bible. Currently I have an ongoing situation which I have no power over and today happened something awkward which wad very circumstantial and again I had no power over and it just happened. It confirmed me in one obvious thing: The Lord is the sovereign Lord and He does as He does. His agenda is not necessarily my agenda.

... in regard to all this: wine is a very small matter

Wine, beer, or alcholic drinks is not a very small matter if it destroys the ones you love (from drunk or buzzed driving), causes you health problems (with even moderate use), and potentially causes a fellow brother and sister to stumbe. You may think alcohol is small (Which would include all these destructive things that are attached to it), but they are not. God cares about how we take care of our temple and how we treat others.


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So you are strongly against?
I dont know what to say.

Honestly it seems to me that you believe your opinion and understanding is the ultimate one and if anyone disagress with you they are simply wrong no matter what.
Do you even have room for disagreement?
Do you know all the answers?

I have admitted several times when I was wrong before in regards to Scripture. It does not happen often, but I am man enough to admit it openly on a forum. So no, I do not think I am always right. In fact, I pray to the Lord constantly that what I do believe on certain topics is correct. For I am constantly seeking the truth in God's Word. The real truth. Not some truth from men who are seeking to be religious.


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Wunderlust

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Here is another article (which uses historical sources for it's writing).

You said that all the factual information I gave was historical interpretation. You continued to deny what can be verified today.

You never answered that question.

You are a poster that engages in not defending his previous arguments and just cuts and pastes material from other sources to get off topic.
 
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Wunderlust

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The dictionary says that there is unfermented wine. The dictionaries of today generally do not ignore dictiontaries of the past (unless new science has made a recent discovery that would change how we see reality). Unfermented wine is what Weltch's had called his grape juice. Freshly squeezed grape juice can be called unfermented wine (even while it ferments a little) because it has not undergone the complete cycle of fermentation whereby it becomes intoxicating.



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You continue to deny and play games with basic science and very basic facts.

Grapes cannot be squeezed year round. Grapes rot and if squeezed they ferment. Grape juice would only be available if you happened to get grapes around the time of harvest.

Jews drink wine today.
 
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Wunderlust

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In your INTERPRETATION of Scripture and history you believe you are correct. I believe Scripture and history backs me up, too. We can talk about Scripture and cling to our own interpretations. We can even talk about history and or wine making and cling to our own favored knowledge in that area, too.

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The problem is that you continue to push a historical narrative that has no basis in past or present reality.

You say absurd things like, The Jews drank squeezed grapes, because they COULD have had squeezed grapes into wine. You ignore the fact that grapes were only available for a limited time.
 
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Wunderlust

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Personally, I believe the word "well drunk" means to satiate, too. For I believe the substance was non-intoxicating and non-alcholic. Yet, you are saying the beverage was non-intoxicating (and yet it was alcoholic) and somehow they did not get drunk off of it?


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Your problem seems to be that you don't get that you can drink alcohol without getting drunk and turning into a raging alcoholic.

People have drinks all the time without getting drunk.

You have said yourself that wine was mixed with water. People can sit around drink water with some wine in it without getting drunk.

In your mind, alcohol has only one purpose: to get drunk and become an alcoholic.
 
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Wunderlust

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Well, no offense, but I am strongly against a person going to Bible college if they have not studied the Word of God on their own for at least a couple of years with God in prayer (Whereby they are comfortable with what the Word says on their own). The teachers at Bible school can put unbiblcial thoughts into a person's head that are simply not true (Whereby it can make one deny the plainness speech that is written within their own Bible).

You are right, before going to a place to learn, you should become deeply entrenched in the limited views you have been exposed to prior to that.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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The problem is that you continue to push a historical narrative that has no basis in past or present reality.

You say absurd things like, The Jews drank squeezed grapes, because they COULD have had squeezed grapes into wine. You ignore the fact that grapes were only available for a limited time.
Not to mention that most of the ways of preserving non fermented juice were not practical nor economical viable for all but the most wealthy Jews and early Christians. Wine was cheap; it just sat there and waited to be consumed at the owners pleasure.
 
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You are right, before going to a place to learn, you should become deeply entrenched in the limited views you have been exposed to prior to that.

I am not the one you need to convince.
The Scriptures say otherwise to what you are saying.
And I trust in God's Word over what men say in history any given day of the week.
Besides, there are historical accounts that support the Prohibitionist or Abstentionist view on alcohol.

...
 
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Wunderlust

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Not to mention that most of the ways of preserving non fermented juice were not practical nor economical viable for all but the most wealthy Jews and early Christians. Wine was cheap; it just sat there and waited to be consumed at the owners pleasure.

Juice actually just wasn't even available. The minute you squeeze grapes to produce juice, fermentation has begun. It wasn't until the 19th century did they figure out how to make non-fermented juice. They did know how to boil wine/juice down to its sugars. However, this meant it had to be done around the time of the busy harvest. It would require a lot of fuel. It would have been a huge luxury item and it was a sweetener.
 
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Wunderlust

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I am not the one you need to convince.
The Scriptures say otherwise to what you are saying.
And I trust in God's Word over what men say in history any given day of the week.
Besides, there are historical accounts that support the Prohibitionist or Abstentionist view on alcohol.

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Scripture and history do not support anything you are saying. Jews continue to make alcoholic kosher wines.

It is a matter of fact that juice was not available until the 19th century where they figured out how to prevent fermentation.

You have a narrow minded view that alcohol is only used to get drunk and thus, cannot imagine that people then, as they do now, drink it without getting intoxicated.
 
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