Revelation 6 through 22 : Discuss

mark kennedy · Sep 18, 2016

Douggg said:
Mark, I looked at the outline. Making an outline is important. And it looks like you did a pretty good job.

What we have to remember though is that your outline is in "presentation order", that is, the order as things were presented to John. The challenge is to put those items in the outline in a "timeline order".

The only adjustment I would make to your outline is in red below. The reason is that the Kingdoms of this world becoming under the Kingdom of God is a process over the second half of the 7 years, beginning with Satan cast down to earth. The actual arrival of the Kingdom of God is when Jesus, the King, returns down to earth at the end of the seven years.

But, otherwise, good job.

(presentation order)
Seals

1) The White Rider with a crown and a bow.
2) The Red Rider with a great sword.
3) The Black Rider with a scale.
4) The Pale Rider, death and hell follow.
5) Martyrs beneath the altar
6) The Wrath of the Lamb
7) Silence in heaven.
Trumpets

1) A third of the earth was burned up.
2) A third of the sea turned into blood.
3) A third of the waters turned bitter
4) A third of the sun, moon and stars struck.
5) The Locusts from the Abyss.
6) The Four Angels and the Euphrates.
7) Thy Kingdom come, the process begins.
Vials of Wrath

1) Ugly, festering sores
2) Sea turned to blood.
3) Springs turned to blood.
4) Sun scorch.
5) Throne of the Beast struck.
6) Armageddon. gathering at
7) Global Earthquake.

The angel proclaims at the sounding of the seventh trumpet, the kingdom of earth have become (γίνομαι gínomai G1096) the kingdom of God and his Christ. I looked up 'become' in the original, it has a broad range of meaning, the meaning has to be context defined:

γίνομαι gínomai, ghin'-om-ahee; a prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb; to cause to be ("gen"-erate), i.e. (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literal, figurative, intensive, etc.):—arise, be assembled, be(-come, -fall, -have self), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, × soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought. (Strong's Dictionary)

It's in the middle voice so if I perform the action it's 'I hit them'. The passive voice would be 'They hit me'. The middle voice, while it has no equivalent in the English, is I hit myself. That's a little counter intuitive since these judgments just devastated the earth, seems like it would be passive. I think with the seals God took action, revealing the Antichrist who had be swimming beneath the surface but this manifestation of evil in the world had been restrained. The prophecy of Joel, moon turned blood red etc is fulfilled there btw. With the sounding of the Trumpets can takes control. The word cannot really be translated directly:

The Greek middle voice shows the subject acting in his own interest or on his own behalf, or participating in the results of the verbal action. In overly simplistic terms, sometimes the middle form of the verb could be translated as "the performer of the action actually acting upon himself" (reflexive action). For example: "I am washing myself." "I" is the subject of the sentence (performing the action of the verb) and yet "I" am also receiving the action of the verb. This is said to be in the "Middle Voice". Many instances in the Greek are not this obvious and cannot be translated this literally. (Greek Verbs Shorter Definitions)

Let's not jump to any conclusions here, it's a difficult exegetical challenge. For instance when Paul says, "Shall we sin that grace may abound? God forbid" (Romans 6:1) that's the word he uses, it's reflexive action. What prevents us from sinning so that grace may abound? I think it suggests that something inherent in the nature of grace prohibits this from happening. I think this strongly implies the new birth. Grace causes the condition that will not make grace a license to sin, a very important problem Paul is addressing in Romans:

Why not say--as some slanderously claim that we say--"Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is just! (Romans 3:8)

Just as the process of sanctification begins with justification the process by which the world becomes the kingdom of God begins here. Thought you might find that interesting since you did say, correctly I might add, the process begins.

Now as far as Armageddon, it's quite literally the Valley of Meggido. They are gathered their (armies of the Antichrist) then there is a terrible earthquake. More on that later.

Grace and peace,
Mark

mark kennedy · Sep 18, 2016

Douggg said:
Mark, I would like for you to try a timeine order. I'll start it.

(timeline order)
First half (1260 days)
day 1 seal 1 rider on the white horse. confirmation of the covenant

One of the biggest mistakes Hitler made was running off the Jews, there was only one non¬jewish nuclear scientist in Germany. More then anybody else they developed the bomb in New Mexico. The Antichrist won't make that mistake, he agrees to a security agreement prophetically called the covenant of death, related to going down to Egypt for help. Historically this has infuriated God, its something akin to spiritual adultery. Judgment was pronounced on Judah because Hezekiah paid tribute to a Babylonian envoy out of the temple treasury. Other factors existed but this was the last straw. This is a bad idea in a long history of bad ideas for Israel. They quite literally sell their security, for a false peace, when the Antichrist comes against them its against uncalled villages. It's the last time they will do that.

The conquest begins and he has a bow, suggesting a ballistic weapon of some kind. At the apex of the tribulation the beasts call fire from the sky, makes me wonder if it's some super weapon. Following the world conquest that uproots three great horns, is a world war. He carries a large sword, probably a four foot long infantry weapon the Romans used on advancing troops. Their enemies were terrified of it. There is no actual timeline there but I get the impression its over a month or two. The world erupts into an orgy of violence orchestrated by this Satanically inspired tyrant. His particular targets, the martyrs, are only some of his victims. In fact the word for 'tribulation' is thilipsis and it is more often translated persecution. Tribulation isn't just what happens to the earth, it embodies why God's wrath is being poured out in the first place.

One thing is certain The seals happen in the beginning, the trumpets are sounded in the middle and the vials are right at the end. In the middle is that abomination that causes desolation happens exactly 3 1/2 years into it.

unknown day seal 7 silence in heaven

Since the seventh seal is in close proximity to the trumpets I think its safe to say it's a midtrib event, probably just a few days or weeks before the trumpets commence.

Second half

Click to expand...

day 1263.5 trumpet 7) The Kingdom come, the process begins
unknown day trumpet 1) A third of the earth was burned up.
unknown day trumpet 2) A third of the sea turned into blood.
unknown day trumpet 3) A third of the waters turned bitter
unknown day trumpet 4) A third of the sun, moon and stars struck.
unknown day trumpet 5) the locust from the abyss
unknown day seal 2) The Red Rider with a great sword
unknown day seal 3) The Black Rider

You completely lost me there, These are successive events. All biblical timelines are relative dates, measuring from one event to another. Absolutes dates can only be determined by inference. If my theory of a super weapon holds true this guy could deliver some Tessla death ray that devastates political and military target quickly. If you could imagine a country like Romania leveling Russia, Turkey and Saudis Arabia with these devastating attacks.

victorinus · Sep 19, 2016

vinsight4u said:
Rev. 7:1 starts a new vision.

each chapter should be considered a new vision

Douggg · Sep 19, 2016

mark kennedy said:
You completely lost me there, These are successive events. All biblical timelines are relative dates, measuring from one event to another. Absolutes dates can only be determined by inference.

Mark, a date is like May 2, 2017. A day on a timeline of 7 years, 2520 days long is like day 1, day 1185, day 1260, day 2520.... not actual dates.

Revelation, sentence by sentence is giving the "presentation order", things as John was presented to him, and as he wrote them down.

The presentation order is not the same as the "timeline order". The timeline order is actual sequence of events when they take place. John doesn't say what takes place on day 1 of the 7 years, or what happens on any of the days of the 7 years.

The challenges for anyone wanting to understand Revelation and the end times bible prophecies is to place the events in timeline order.

Even though the 7th trumpet is the last of the trumpet, the events it initiates puts it before the other trumpets. When the 7th trumpet sounds it starts a process of the kingdoms of this world wrestled from Satan's influence to become the Kingdom of God here on earth.

The first step of that process is Satan being cast down, restricted here to this earth, for a time, times, half times.. And once Satan has been cast down to earth, then the other 6 trumpets sound in sequence , the first four being damage to the environment, followed by the flesh tormenting locust, followed by the killing of a third of mankind, near the end of the seven years.

Although I suggested you try to do a timeline order, it may not be something that you have been gifted for, and that you have other gifts. So you can disregard if you want to.

mark kennedy · Sep 19, 2016

Douggg said:
Mark, a date is like May 2, 2017. A day on a timeline of 7 years, 2520 days long is like day 1, day 1185, day 1260, day 2520.... not actual dates.

Revelation, sentence by sentence is giving the "presentation order", things as John was presented to him, and as he wrote them down.

The presentation order is not the same as the "timeline order". The timeline order is actual sequence of events when they take place. John doesn't say what takes place on day 1 of the 7 years, or what happens on any of the days of the 7 years.

The challenges for anyone wanting to understand Revelation and the end times bible prophecies is to place the events in timeline order.

Even though the 7th trumpet is the last of the trumpet, the events it initiates puts it before the other trumpets. When the 7th trumpet sounds it starts a process of the kingdoms of this world wrestled from Satan's influence to become the Kingdom of God here on earth.

The first step of that process is Satan being cast down, restricted here to this earth, for a time, times, half times.. And once Satan has been cast down to earth, then the other 6 trumpets sound in sequence , the first four being damage to the environment, followed by the flesh tormenting locust, followed by the killing of a third of mankind, near the end of the seven years.

Although I suggested you try to do a timeline order, it may not be something that you have been gifted for, and that you have other gifts. So you can disregard if you want to.

You seem to think they somehow overlap, I think the presentation order and the order of occurrence are identical:

When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets. (Rev. 8:1,2)

In historical narratives the literal interpretation is always preferred, even in a futuristic one. The text has the tribulation kicking off with the first seal, the seventh trumpet sounds immediately after the two witnesses conclude their 42 months of prophecy:

And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth. (Rev. 11:2,3)

The vials happen very late, the symmetry and straightforward language of the text makes it hard to miss. The seals run their course early and along with the last seal comes the trumpets which is why you don't get the last seal for two chapters. There is a space of time between the seals and the trumpets, probably years. With the last Trumpet the world is having a big party, again, probably going on for years. There is no way these overlap, the progression is unmistakable.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Grace and peace,
Mark

Douggg · Sep 19, 2016

mark kennedy said:
The vials happen very late, the symmetry and straightforward language of the text makes it hard to miss. The seals run their course early and along with the last seal comes the trumpets which is why you don't get the last seal for two chapters. There is a space of time between the seals and the trumpets, probably years. With the last Trumpet the world is having a big party, again, probably going on for years. There is no way these overlap, the progression is unmistakable.

Your approach cannot be fitted to a 7year timeline.

The basic timeline is 1260 days + 3 1/2 days + 42 months (containing the time, times, half times) = the seven years. Fit the seals, the trumpet, the woes, the vials to that timeline using your view - it can't be done.

Revealing Times · Sep 19, 2016

vinsight4u said:
Visions don't overlap per se, but the same timings are in some
of them. Rev. 6th seal is when the great tribulation ends.
the sun is black - the stars of heaven fall
heaven and earth is shaken
This all shows that the day of the Lord/God's wrath is starting.
The men will hide in the rocks for fear of Him and His glory.
This is also a day of the Lord event foretold by Isaiah.
The church is here till the day of the Lord/day of Christ.

Then they do overlap "IN TIME" not all, but some. The Sixth Seal is not the End of the Tribulation. It begins with the First Seal and Ends with Jesus Destroying the Anti-Christ in Rev. 19, just after the Seventh Vial.The Stars do not fall per se, the Sun, moon and Stars are blacked out because of all the Smoke, 1/3 of the Trees burn and all of the grasses burn, a asteroid hits, these all cause GREAT SMOKE. You do not really think stars could fall to earth and humans would survive do you ? Those are Angels coming to earth with Jesus or Demons being cast down to earth for good.

vinsight4u said:
Matthew 24:29
"Immediately after the tribulation...shall the sun be darkened...the stars shall fall from heaven, and the
powers of the heavens shall be shaken."
The next verse tells how the tribes of the earth shall mourn.
That too happens in the 6th seal when the men try to hide and
cry out.

Rev. 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

The Sun and Moon will be darkened during the Tribulation and the smoke will linger for years, the bottomless pit also will billow smoke out, etc. etc. the Smoke will darken the skies. You are over emphasizing the word IMMEDIATELY AFTER, no doubt.

mark kennedy · Sep 19, 2016

Douggg said:
Your approach cannot be fitted to a 7year timeline.

The basic timeline is 1260 days + 3 1/2 days + 42 months (containing the time, times, half times) = the seven years. Fit the seals, the trumpet, the woes, the vials to that timeline using your view - it can't be done.

Why not, the judgment runs they're course of weeks or months. The judgments are spaced years apart and I have explicit proof text to that effect. There could be over three years between them. Its plenty of time.

The Revelation presents few interpretive challenges, it's speculation and allegoization that cause the confusion.

Grace and peace,
Mark

mark kennedy · Sep 19, 2016

Revealing Times said:
Then they do overlap "IN TIME" not all, but some. The Sixth Seal is not the End of the Tribulation. It begins with the First Seal and Ends with Jesus Destroying the Anti-Christ in Rev. 19, just after the Seventh Vial.The Stars do not fall per se, the Sun, moon and Stars are blacked out because of all the Smoke, 1/3 of the Trees burn and all of the grasses burn, a asteroid hits, these all cause GREAT SMOKE. You do not really think stars could fall to earth and humans would survive do you ? Those are Angels coming to earth with Jesus or Demons being cast down to earth for good.

Rev. 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

The Sun and Moon will be darkened during the Tribulation and the smoke will linger for years, the bottomless pit also will billow smoke out, etc. etc. the Smoke will darken the skies. You are over emphasizing the word IMMEDIATELY AFTER, no doubt.

The last seal is opened the first trumpet follows in the next verse. The last trumpet sound at the three and a half year mark. The vials start very late, they can be done in six months to a year. That's a rough estimate but the judgments are clearly successive not concurrent.

tranquil · Sep 19, 2016

Douggg said:
The exact verse please. What is written in Revelation 17 is that there are 7 kings. Since five had fallen, and on is, and the seventh yet to come - the seven kings rule one at a time - sequential, no contemporary of each other..

It is the ten kings who will be contemporary of each other. And those ten kings in Daniel 7 are of the fourth empire- in the text.

It does not say 7 contemporary kings. Here is what it says in the text...

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

The seven kings are not contemporary of each other. One rules, then the next, then the next, then the next...... a sequence of 7 kings

The false prophet is not a king - so he is not the little horn who will be a king. Called the king of fierce countenance in Daniel 8:23.

23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
.

No, here is the text that you conveniently left off

9 This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; 10 they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while. 11 As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction. 12 And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast.

Here in Jeremiah 51:24-5, mountain is the king of Babylon (just like the 2nd trumpet)

24“I will repay Babylon and all the inhabitants of Chaldea before your very eyes for all the evil that they have done in Zion, declares the Lord.

25“Behold, I am against you, O destroying mountain,
declares the Lord,
which destroys the whole earth;
I will stretch out my hand against you,
and roll you down from the crags,
and make you a burnt mountain.

You are right, it is a sequence, but it is an end-time sequence: it says it in Daniel 2:28, Daniel 8:17

Babylon = Lion w/ eagle wings = head of gold = UK/ US
Medes/ Persians = Bear = chest of silver = Russia/ Iran = 2 horned ram of Daniel 8. The bear with 3 ribs is the same as Daniel 8:4's ram that charged west, north, south
Greece = 4 headed leopard = EU 4 = the goat of Daniel 8
4th beast = dragon

same thing in Daniel 7's 4 kings
1 king for the lion, 1 king for the bear, 1 king for the leopard (develops into 4 heads as explained in Daniel 8), 1 king for the dragon with 10 horns = 4 kings/ 7 heads with 10 horns

same thing in Revelation 13:1

And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads. 2 And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority.

the dragon's kingdom develops 10 contemporary horns/ 10 contemporary kings. Then develops the 11 horn.

It really is very straightforward: the 8th king of Revelation 17:11 is the false prophet, the 11th horn

10 they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while.
11 As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction. 12 And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast.

Why is the 8th 'of the 7' king? because the 11th horn is out of the 4th king of Daniel 7/ 7th head of the Beast from the sea. 4th king (dragon), then 10 horns, then 10 crowns, then 11th horn, the false prophet.

Why does it say "the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast."? Rev 17:12 is just reiterating what we read in Revelation 13:1 where the beast from the sea, that has 10 horns, now has 10 crowns and will now rule with the beast from the earth / false prophet.

The False Prophet is most certainly a king, he is the 'beast' from the earth. Beasts mean 'kings' and kingdoms Daniel 7:16-17. And it explicitly says in Revelation 13:12 that he has all the authority of the beast from the sea kings, meaning .... he's a king.

Because you only focus on the 4th kingdom (the dragon kingdom) you can't explain the meaning of Revelation 12:3's red dragon with 7 heads, 10 horns, and 7 crowns. When there are 7 crowns, it means that the dragon king doesn't have the false prophet yet, because the 10 kings with crowns have to arrive for the 11th horn to arrive. You would seem to answer by saying that the 'antichrist' is the 7th head (through time), but why does Revelation 13 say:

And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads. 2 And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority. 3 One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast.

Why does it say, 'one of its heads'? By your reasoning, there is only 1 head here: the 'antichrist', but that is clearly not what is being described in this passage, is it? Why wouldn't it just say, 'the beast's head had a mortal head wound'? There are 7 heads that are in the end time sequence of events and 1 of them is the mortally head wounded individual.

The beast from the 'bottomless pit' is referring to the beast from the sea & the earth. It is referring to both the 4th king / the dragon king (the 7th head with 10 horns) & the 11th horn, the false prophet.

mark kennedy · Sep 19, 2016

tranquil said:
No, here is the text that you conveniently left off

9 This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; 10 they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while. 11 As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction. 12 And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast.

Here in Jeremiah 51:24-5, mountain is the king of Babylon (just like the 2nd trumpet)

24“I will repay Babylon and all the inhabitants of Chaldea before your very eyes for all the evil that they have done in Zion, declares the Lord.

25“Behold, I am against you, O destroying mountain,
declares the Lord,
which destroys the whole earth;
I will stretch out my hand against you,
and roll you down from the crags,
and make you a burnt mountain.

I really don't see the connection aside from some similarities in the figurative language.

You are right, it is a sequence, but it is an end-time sequence: it says it in Daniel 2:28, Daniel 8:17

Babylon = Lion w/ eagle wings = head of gold = UK/ US

Medes/ Persians = Bear = chest of silver = Russia/ Iran = 2 horned ram of Daniel 8. The bear with 3 ribs is the same as Daniel 8:4's ram that charged west, north, south

Greece = 4 headed leopard = EU 4 = the goat of Daniel 8

4th beast = dragon

The fourth beast is Rome:

As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. (Dan. 2:43,44)

After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. (Danial 7:7,8)

The seventh king will rule over the eighth kingdom. The US and UK separated from Roman Catholic secular governance in the wake of the Protestant Reformation. What most end time scholars will tell you is that the kingdom of the Antichrist will be a revived Roman Empire.

same thing in Daniel 7's 4 kings

Your missing lot of Scripture here:

“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.

“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined. Daniel 9: 25,26

That takes us up to 70 AD and the destruction of the Temple. Babylon, Medo Persia, Greece and Rome being the main kingdoms prophesied.

This part remains unfulfilled:

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.” Daniel 9:27

The Antichrist breaks that covenant half way through the seven year period, thus, the abomination that causes desolation is an idol set up in the new Temple or possibly a Tabernacle of some kind.

1 king for the lion, 1 king for the bear, 1 king for the leopard (develops into 4 heads as explained in Daniel 8), 1 king for the dragon with 10 horns = 4 kings/ 7 heads with 10 horns

That's a mess, going to pass on that one.

same thing in Revelation 13:1

And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads. 2 And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority.

The Dragon is Satan, no two ways about that. The bear is Medo Persia:

And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh. (Dan. 7:9)

This falls right between the lion which is Babylon and Greece which is the Leopard

the dragon's kingdom develops 10 contemporary horns/ 10 contemporary kings. Then develops the 11 horn.

The little horn that devours three kingdoms:

I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. (Dan. 7:8)

It really is very straightforward: the 8th king of Revelation 17:11 is the false prophet, the 11th horn

they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while.
As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction. And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast.

Actually there are 10 horns and then an eleventh appears, he devours three which leaves 8.

And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. (Rev. 17:10-13)

The False Prophet is another beast, not another horn:

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. (Rev. 13:11,12)

The horns suggest military might but he never wears a crown. He tells everyone to worship the first beast who's deadly wound was healed.

Why is the 8th 'of the 7' king? because the 11th horn is out of the 4th king of Daniel 7/ 7th head of the Beast from the sea. 4th king (dragon), then 10 horns, then 10 crowns, then 11th horn, the false prophet.

Meanings tend to overlap a little, there are 7 historical kingdoms and an eight that is the kingdom of the Antichrist. The horns start out with 11 and the little horn devours three leaving eight. The seven empower the little horn probably because of what happened to the other three.

Why does it say "the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast."? Rev 17:12 is just reiterating what we read in Revelation 13:1 where the beast from the sea, that has 10 horns, now has 10 crowns and will now rule with the beast from the earth / false prophet.

The False Prophet is most certainly a king, he is the 'beast' from the earth. Beasts mean 'kings' and kingdoms Daniel 7:16-17. And it explicitly says in Revelation 13:12 that he has all the authority of the beast from the sea kings, meaning .... he's a king.

Because you only focus on the 4th kingdom (the dragon kingdom) you can't explain the meaning of Revelation 12:3's red dragon with 7 heads, 10 horns, and 7 crowns. When there are 7 crowns, it means that the dragon king doesn't have the false prophet yet, because the 10 kings with crowns have to arrive for the 11th horn to arrive. You would seem to answer by saying that the 'antichrist' is the 7th head (through time), but why does Revelation 13 say:

And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads. 2 And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority. 3 One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast.

Why does it say, 'one of its heads'? By your reasoning, there is only 1 head here: the 'antichrist', but that is clearly not what is being described in this passage, is it? Why wouldn't it just say, 'the beast's head had a mortal head wound'? There are 7 heads that are in the end time sequence of events and 1 of them is the mortally head wounded individual.

The beast from the 'bottomless pit' is referring to the beast from the sea & the earth. It is referring to both the 4th king / the dragon king (the 7th head with 10 horns) & the 11th horn, the false prophet.

The beast has eight heads like a lion (Babylon), Body like a leapord (Greece), feet like a bear (Medo Persia). These coincide with Daniel 2 and7.In addition the heads are kings, five previous, one present (Nero). The one to come is the Antichrist, The eighth head is th he kingdom of the Antichrist. The Dragon is Satan, that serpent of old.

The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. (Rev. 12:9)

All we know about the false prophet is that he makes his only appearance here and has the distinction of being one of the first of two cast bodily into the lake of fire.

mark kennedy · Sep 19, 2016

Let me see if I can clarify some things here. The seven heads are seven kings, the sixth was Nero the Seventh is the antichrist. There will be an eight kingdom. In Daniel chapter 2 and 7 are a detailed description of the rise of Babylon, Medo Persia, Greece and Rome. The feet of the statue a Denial 2 are smashed by the stone not cut with human hands, the return of Christ.

The is also a depiction of Alexander the Great defeating Darius. The same Darius the commissioned Nehemiah to finish the walls and the Temple in Jerusalem. The same guy who threw Danial into the lions den. I think there was a reason Darius was kindly disposed toward his Jewish cup bearer. He would have known all about Danial and the things God did over a period of some seventy years.

When Alexander the Great died he said give it to the strongest. It went to four general's, one of which was Antiochus Epiphanies. He foreshadowed the antichrist by sacrificing a pig in the Holy Place. The books 1 and 2 Maccabees tell the story of the rebellion that followed.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Berean777 · Sep 19, 2016

Revealing Times said:
Revelations put in order and explained: Revelation chapters 6 to Rev. 22

John is in the Spirit in Heaven seeing future events. The judgments of the Lamb are followed by the trumpet judgments then the vials of wrath judgments. These events are judging Babylon the World Government System(s) that puts men before God and enslaves/conquers Gods chosen people Israel. Revelation 12 where Satan is cast down happens in this same time period, the Anti-Christ is possessed by Satan and then the proposed peace this evil tyrant has offered turns into perilous times as never seen before, which Jesus and Daniel foretold would happen.

Care to kindly provide evidence to why Babylon is the world governmental system and not a religious system?

Please provide evidence when Satan is cast down to earth?

Please provide evidence when the peace is offered and when the perilous times are?

Revealing Times said:
This Anti-Christ will then go forth to conquer, chapter 13 tells of this Beast arising out of the Sea which means and has always meant in biblical terms, that he is a Gentile leader. His partner, the False Prophet arises out of the Land, which has always meant in biblical terms that he is a Jewish individual. The False Prophet no doubt gets Israel to make peace, meaning to accept the Security of this Man of Sin/Anti-Christ. He will then no doubt turn against them at the 42 month mark. This is when he goes forth to conquer as chapter six implies. All of these chapters are different events happening at the same time or pretty close in time, hence I am conjoining them together on purpose.

Kindly provide evidence to why the beast arising out of the Sea is a gentile leader and not a religious institution that encompasses the globe?

Revealing Times said:
I think the wrath of the Lamb is the Lord Jesus allowing the Anti-Christ to come forth and harm the world via murder, enslavement, dictatorship etc., in the first Four Seals. The Sixth Seal is an action by God/Jesus, but all are the Lambs Wrath he allows them to happen or causes them to come to pass. Then comes the trumpet judgments, Rev. 8 says that an Angel stood before the alter of God with the incense or prayers from the Saints of God, I think this is where the two-witnesses pray down plagues upon mankind. The Angel took the prayers, mingled with fire, and cast them upon the Earth !! Then came the plagues. A third of the trees and all the grasses were burned up, a third of the seas turned to blood, a third of the creatures died, a third of the waters were poisoned, an asteroid hits the earth, the sun, moon and stars are darkened, because of all the smoke no doubt. Then comes the three Woes which end the reign of mankind and begins the reign of God with his seven quick staccato style Vials of Wrath. Babylon has Fallen, has Fallen !!

Care to provide evidence who the two witnesses are?

Please provide evidence to why the two witnesses are two individuals?

Please provide evidence to why the two witnesses rain down physical plagues when they are preaching a message? Does God obliterate his enemies because they don't forcefully listen to him? Does God want people to follow and obey him out of fear or out of love?

Please provide evidence why Babylon in John's present tense of the statement Babylon has fallen, thrice, is not an event in the past, rather than one that is in the future?

I can't even read the rest of your post, because I understood nothing and I have thus far seen no evidence that would make me swayed to your interpretation. Kindly provide evidence before proceeding to unverified assumptions.

Here is an exercise for you friend. Go throughout all your post and lost down every assumption that you have made and please provide evidence that would warrant that assumption.

mark kennedy · Sep 19, 2016

Can anyone play because I like the random questions game

Berean777 said:
Care to kindly provide evidence to why Babylon is the world governmental system and not a religious system?

Who said the can't be both. Babylon goes back to Babel and the seeds of that worldly system have been spread across the earth. There are also the spiritual descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Ever notice most of the eastern religions are mystical. Hindu, Buddhist, even Islam are based on highly existential experiential conformity. Only the enlightened may plume the depths but the gospels offers to whosoever will.

Please provide evidence when Satan is cast down to earth?

That Dragon, the serpent of old. He gets tossed by Micheal and his angels. Please actually read chapters 6 thru 23 before commenting on them.

Please provide evidence when the peace is offered and when the perilous times are?

We know the Antichrist breaks the covenant but it's not for peace but rather security.

Kindly provide evidence to why the beast arising out of the Sea is a gentile leader and not a religious institution that encompasses the globe?

Please provide evidence, reason or logic for anything. These are circular questions. Repeatedly the Antichrist is refereed to as a king, there is no hint of ecclesiastical authority. The Beast from the land looks like a Lamb which is how Christ is described. Except this guy speaks like a Dragon.

Care to provide evidence who the two witnesses are?

Enoch and Elijah, both we taken in to heaven bodily. Elijah was prophesied to return before the day of the Lord, and he will. People had mistakenly mistook John the Baptist for Elijah but he only came in the spirit and power of Elijah. Elijah will actually prophecy for 3 1/2 years during the first half of the tribulation before being taken back to heaven.

Please provide evidence to why the two witnesses are two individuals?

Please be serious.

Please provide evidence to why the two witnesses rain down physical plagues when they are preaching a message? Does God obliterate his enemies because they don't forcefully listen to him? Does God want people to follow and obey him out of fear or out of love?

Both, don't fear those who kill the body, but fear him that can cast the body and soul into Hell fire. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge but fools dispose wisdom and knowledge. Do you even own a Bible?

Please provide evidence why Babylon in John's present tense of the statement Babylon has fallen, thrice, is not an event in the past, rather than one that is in the future?

Because it's a book of predictive prophecy describing that that Will shortly come to pass. Its in the opening chapter.

I can't even read the rest of your post, because I understood nothing and I have thus far seen no evidence that would make me swayed to your interpretation. Kindly provide evidence before proceeding to unverified assumptions.

Please stop trolling this thread, I like the thread and the subject matter. You can use that circular logic in any forum on any subject. We are trying to discuss Bible prophecy not field these circular ad hominem fallacies.

Revealing Times · Sep 19, 2016

Berean777 said:
Care to kindly provide evidence to why Babylon is the world governmental system and not a religious system?

Hello Brother, I have a blog on this and and in post #56 on this thread I posted it. It speaks about why the Great Harlot of Rev. 17 and the Babylon of Chapter 18 are two entirely different entities. One Reigious and the Other the Final Beast Ststem, Remember, the Kings kill the Harlot in Rev. 17 by the Kings in Rev. 18 cry and bemoan Babylons Demise.
http://mrrondonmon.blogspot.com/2016/05/the-great-harlot-of-revelation-17-and.html?spref=bl
https://disqus.com/home/discussion/..._and_babylon_are_different_entities_entirely/

Berean777 said:
Please provide evidence when Satan is cast down to earth?

Rev. 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. { In Daniel 12:1-2 and in Matthew 24:14-21 we see that these three passages happen at exactly the same time. In Daniel 12 Michael Stands up, and there is Great Trouble like never before or since, in Matthew 24 we see that the Abomination of Desolation happens and there is a time of trouble like never before. In Rev. 12 the Woman (Israel) Flees to the Wilderness, in Matthew 24 Jesus tells Israel to Flees Judea when they see the Abomination of Desolation. The Gospel is preached unto all the World in Matthew 24:14 before the Abomination of Desolation happens. }} <PERILOUS TIMES WAS HERE.

Berean777 said:
Please provide evidence when the peace is offered and when the perilous times are?

It is not really peace, but it is. The word used in Daniel implies SECURITY, so the Anti-Christ forces a Deal upon Israel, the word used in Daniel 9:27 for confirm means (to be strong, Insolent) so this is a forced Deal, peace-deal, I will explain the peace later, but lets delve fully into Dan. 9:27

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm (gabar 1396 to be strong or Insolent) the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading (kanaph 3671 A wing [of a building], an edge or extremity, a quarter of a building,) of abominations (shiqquwts 8251, Filthy, idolatrous, an IDOL) he shall make it desolate,(shamem 8074, to Stun, stupefy make numb or Devastate) even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Notice the real meaning of this verse ? The Anti-Christ will through insolence and by force/being strong, cause Israel to make a COVENANT/AGREEMENT for One Week,(Seven Years) in the middle of the Seven Years in a Wing of the Temple, this Anti-Christ will place an IDOL of Himself or the False Prophet does, and this will STUN Israel, it will Shock them. They understand now that they have to Flee just as Jesus told them they would have to, I think Israel have turned to the Messiah by this time, because Malachi chapter 4 says God will send Elijah back before the Day of the Lord (Tribulation period) to turn Israel back to God. Now, does this match-up with Rev. chapter 13 ? LETS SEE:

Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

{{ Catch this in Rev. 13 ? It is an IDOL that is placed in the Temple of God. A filthy Idol of the Beast. }} Now to the Peace part of the question, we have to go to Daniel chapter 8.

Daniel 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, (Anti-Christ) shall stand up. 24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. 25 And through his policy (Intelligence BELIEVE ME no use offering the Hebrew word every time) also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace (shalvah 7962, Security genuine or false) shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince (Jesus) of princes; but he shall be broken without hand. (By the Holy Spirit)

So this Anti-Christ offers Israel Security, it has to be a Peace deal. What else can it be called ? To make a deal, he offers Security, it seems Israel are leery, but he is kind of like Obama, but far worse, he pretty much forces this deal, or he probably tells Israel he will cut off all European trade with them. One way or another he forces Israel into trusting him fully in the end. He will destroy Islam, so maybe this is the [false sense of]" SECURITY" he seems to offer them. Then he of course turns on them in the middle of the Week. It is not a Seven Year Deal per se by the way. It is only that Daniel understand through God via his 70th Week Decree prophecy that at the time of this Deal, the Clock starts on the Final Week of his prophecy. So Daniel says, in the Middle of the Final Seven Years, that doesn't mean the Peace Deal is a Seven year deal, it only means that there is Seven Years left in the Age. In the middle of these Seven years, the Anti-Christ will come against Israel. So do not look for a Seven year Deal folks, it could be, but doesn't have to be.

mark kennedy · Sep 20, 2016

Revealing Times said:
Daniel 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, (Anti-Christ) shall stand up. 24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. 25 And through his policy (Intelligence BELIEVE ME no use offering the Hebrew word every time) also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace (shalvah 7962, Security genuine or false) shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince (Jesus) of princes; but he shall be broken without hand. (By the Holy Spirit)

So this Anti-Christ offers Israel Security, it has to be a Peace deal. What else can it be called ? To make a deal, he offers Security, it seems Israel are leery, but he is kind of like Obama, but far worse, he pretty much forces this deal, or he probably tells Israel he will cut off all European trade with them. One way or another he forces Israel into trusting him fully in the end. He will destroy Islam, so maybe this is the [false sense of]" SECURITY" he seems to offer them. Then he of course turns on them in the middle of the Week. It is not a Seven Year Deal per se by the way. It is only that Daniel understand through God via his 70th Week Decree prophecy that at the time of this Deal, the Clock starts on the Final Week of his prophecy. So Daniel says, in the Middle of the Final Seven Years, that doesn't mean the Peace Deal is a Seven year deal, it only means that there is Seven Years left in the Age. In the middle of these Seven years, the Anti-Christ will come against Israel. So do not look for a Seven year Deal folks, it could be, but doesn't have to be.

It's called the covenant with death and hell in Isaiah:

Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. (Isaiah 28:15, 16)

Israel has done things like this historically:

Woe to those who go down to Egypt for help, who rely on horses, who trust in the multitude of their chariots and in the great strength of their horsemen, but do not look to the Holy One of Israel, or seek help from the LORD. (Isaiah 31:1)

It makes God furious. The eighth century prophets; Micah, Hosea, Amos and Isaiah had a list of things God was furious about, especially idols and the mistreatment of the poor. When Hezekiah shows the Babylonian envoy the treasury Judah's fate was sealed:

So Hezekiah answered, “They have seen all that is in my house; there is nothing among my treasures that I have not shown them.”

Then Isaiah said to Hezekiah, “Hear the word of the Lord: ‘Behold, the days are coming when all that is in your house, and what your fathers have accumulated until this day, shall be carried to Babylon; nothing shall be left,’ says the Lord. ‘And they shall take away some of your sons who will descend from you, whom you will beget; and they shall be eunuchs in the palace of the king of Babylon.’” (2 Kings 20:16-18)

I guess I Isaiah knew when the showed them the treasury, they would want to take it.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Revealing Times · Sep 20, 2016

Berean777 said:
Kindly provide evidence to why the beast arising out of the Sea is a gentile leader and not a religious institution that encompasses the globe?

You can not call the Beast the RCC, this is of Satan, believe me. I read it 30 years ago, but the Holy Spirit has to be asked what is the truth, believe me, I have been hung-up on falsehoods before, it happens. The Scriptures with the Spirit will reveal the truth to us, we should never entrust our vision/understandings fully with men. Men fail us always.
Revelation 20:10 says the Beast and the False Prophet are CAST INTO HELL. A church is not cast into hell. The Anti-Christ is a Man, he is The Assyrian, the Man of Sin, The Lawless One, the Little Horn, The Beast, etc. etc. He is a man, not an institution. The Mark is the Number of a Man. The RCC does not even come close to fitting. The Kings do not gain their power until the END TIMES with the Anti-Christ.

Berean777 said:
Care to provide evidence who the two witnesses are?

Please provide evidence to why the two witnesses are two individuals?

Please provide evidence to why the two witnesses rain down physical plagues when they are preaching a message? Does God obliterate his enemies because they don't forcefully listen to him? Does God want people to follow and obey him out of fear or out of love?

I believe that one is Elijah, because in Malachi 4:5-6 says that before the Day of the Lord God will send Elijah to turn Israel back to God. The Other could be anyone, it doesn't really matter, they are servants of God anyways.

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. 5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

This is the Tribulation Period. Gods Wrath is raining down on evil men/Babylon. The Church is Raptured before the Tribulation, many Christians are murdered/beheaded by this evil leader and evil world. Israel is in the Wilderness protected by God. These remaining people seem to hate God and want to make war with God.

Berean777 said:
Please provide evidence why Babylon in John's present tense of the statement Babylon has fallen, thrice, is not an event in the past, rather than one that is in the future?

I can't even read the rest of your post, because I understood nothing and I have thus far seen no evidence that would make me swayed to your interpretation. Kindly provide evidence before proceeding to unverified assumptions.

Here is an exercise for you friend. Go throughout all your post and lost down every assumption that you have made and please provide evidence that would warrant that assumption.

Because REV. 14, 17 and 18 are in the FUTURE. As are 15 and 16, which is about the final Plagues.

If you can't read it, you must not can read English. You mean you can't understand it, I can accept that. The First thing you have to do brother, is leave everything that men have told you off the table, including my post. Read for yourself and Ask God for understanding, and He will give it to you, see what fits and what doesn't. God never misleads us, sometimes we listen to men instead of God.

I do not need to provide evidence to what God has revealed unto me, I can't prove God wrong because He is never wrong.

God Bless.

Douggg · Sep 20, 2016

tranquil said:
You are right, it is a sequence, but it is an end-time sequence: it says it in Daniel 2:28, Daniel 8:17

Babylon = Lion w/ eagle wings = head of gold = UK/ US

Medes/ Persians = Bear = chest of silver = Russia/ Iran = 2 horned ram of Daniel 8. The bear with 3 ribs is the same as Daniel 8:4's ram that charged west, north, south

Greece = 4 headed leopard = EU 4 = the goat of Daniel 8

4th beast = dragon

no doesn't work.

Daniel 2
babylon - gold - Nebuchadnezzar in the text. His empire.
medes/persians - silver
greece - bronze
roman - iron
roman endtimes - iron/clay - EU

Revealing Times · Sep 20, 2016

mark kennedy said:
Please stop trolling this thread, I like the thread and the subject matter. You can use that circular logic in any forum on any subject. We are trying to discuss Bible prophecy not field these circular ad hominem fallacies.

I think he is one of those guys that believe the RCC is the Beast of Revelation. It just doesn't add up. So they then want proof, because they can not understand how we do not see what they see. More power to him if he wants to believe that, but I am just going to explain my understandings.
================================================

I haven't studied that part of Isaiah lately, need to.

Thinking about a concise Daniel post kind of like this. Will have to put in some more study time first. I studied Revelation every day for a year or maybe even 2 years. I revise, and revised as God showed me things.

God Bless.

Douggg · Sep 20, 2016

Revealing Times said:
It is only that Daniel understand through God via his 70th Week Decree prophecy that at the time of this Deal, the Clock starts on the Final Week of his prophecy. So Daniel says, in the Middle of the Final Seven Years, that doesn't mean the Peace Deal is a Seven year deal, it only means that there is Seven Years left in the Age.

Daniel was not saying anything or making any contribution to what is written in Daniel 9:26-9:27. It is Gabriel doing the taking starting in verse 22 to the end of verse 27.

It is not a peace covenant. It is the Mt. Sinai covenant and the for 7 years is the cycle which the leadeship of Israel is supposed to oversee happen... the commemorative reading of the law, another name for the Mt. Sinai covenant, is read to the nation of Israel that God gave them the land of Israel as theirs forever, with God as their God and they his people.

The Mt. Sinai covenant is what established the animal sacrifices and oblation associated with worship in the temple.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation [of the seventy weeks - my comment], and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

In Daniel 8, the person maginfies himself in his heart, yes, but is it for invading Israel ? No, it is because he think he has achieved God-hood.

He doesn't need to invade Israel, to commit the act of transgression of desolation - because he will be right there in Jerusalem, as their messiah KIng of Israel, for 3 years 3months approximately, in a false messianic age of peace and safety.

When John in 1John2:18 said that they knew antichrist shall come - there was nothing involving a peace treaty that they would have known that antichrist shall come. The basis for them knowing that antichrist shall come is what Jesus in John 5 said should another come in his own name, him they would accept - as messiah, the promised great King of Israel.

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Do you see anything in 1John2:19-29 as John describes what an antichrist is that affiliates antichrists with a peace treaty? no.

Revelation 6 through 22 : Discuss

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