the apocalypse

victorinus said:

I missed that one -
can you show me where that is?

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The Church marrying two homosexuals is an abomination, if you do not know/understand that then me and you really have nothing to talk about from here on out. Sorry that is how I roll.

Revealing Times said in post 337:

I think that Rev. 12, Rev. 13 and Rev. 17 all match Daniel chapter 7 . . .

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Regarding Revelation 12, verse 3 refers to Satan himself in his true form: a 7-headed, red, serpentine dragon (Revelation 12:9).

Regarding Daniel 7, there the first 3 beasts (Daniel 7:3-6) represent the ancient empires of Babylon (lion), Medo-Persia (bear), and Greece (leopard). The 4th beast, or 4th "king"/"kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23), represents the ancient Roman empire. And the 10 horns/kings which come out of it (Daniel 7:7,24) could represent 10 major kingdoms/nations today which came out the former territory of the Roman empire, which consisted not only of Western Europe, but also the Middle East and North Africa. These 10 nations could be Germany, the U.K., France, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Algeria, and Syria. The 10 part-iron/part-clay toes of Daniel 2:42 could represent the same thing as the 10 horns of Daniel 7:7. The Europeans could be the iron, and the Arabs and Turks could be the clay. In Daniel 2:43, the inability of the iron to mix with the clay could represent how, for example, there are many Turks living in Germany, but they remain separated in ghettoes within German cities. Similarly, there are many Arab Algerians living in France, but they remain separated in ghettoes within French cities.

But despite this social separation, which could endure indefinitely, the people of Western Europe on the one hand and the people of the Middle East and North Africa on the other could still one day put aside their political separation and become united into one federation. For Daniel 2:42 refers to the 10 as a singular "kingdom". The person who brings this about could be the Antichrist. The arising of the "little" horn (Daniel 7:8, Daniel 8:9), which is "diverse" from the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24), could mean that the Antichrist will arise from a little country.

And the little horn arising from "among" the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:8) could mean that the Antichrist's country's territory used to be part of the Roman empire. And before that, it was part of one of the 4 Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded the Greek empire of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). The territory of these 4 kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from the little country of Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

The Antichrist could start out by claiming to be a Baathist. After becoming the leader of Lebanon, he could peacefully gain control of a Baathist federation of 3 of the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24): Egypt, "toward the south" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9), and Iraq and Syria, "toward the east" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9). This federation could also include the minor nation of a United Palestine, i.e. a defeated Israel, "the pleasant land" (Daniel 8:9).

This Baathist federation could be put together in the future by an Iraqi Baathist General who could completely defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"), but who could then mysteriously disappear (Daniel 11:19) shortly before the Antichrist arises on the world stage (Daniel 11:21-45). Years later, when the Antichrist gains control of all 10 of the major nations, he could appoint kings over them (Revelation 17:12) who will defer to him (Revelation 17:13), like when Napoleon gained control of different nations, he appointed kings over them who would defer to him.

Revealing Times said in post 337:

[Daniel 7]
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

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We seem to be agreed that Daniel 7:11b refers to the Antichrist, the individual-man aspect of the beast, being cast into the lake of fire at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:20). In Daniel 7, the Antichrist is considered to be part of the 4th beast (Daniel 7:23-25).

Revealing Times said in post 337:

[Daniel 7]
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

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We also seem to be agreed that this doesn't require (as is sometimes claimed) that the prior beasts didn't have their dominion (their empires) taken away before the Antichrist's destruction in Daniel 7:11b and Revelation 19:20, but can mean that they are different from the Antichrist in that they had a (post-empire) existence, in the sense that Babylon, even after its defeat as an empire in the 6th century BC, continued on as a thriving city for centuries (and it has even been rebuilt in our own time, in Iraq). And Medo-Persia continues on as Iran and the Kurds. And Greece continues on as a nation. And Rome continues on as Italy. Also, Iraq, Iran, Greece, and Italy could continue to exist as distinct nations (not empires) during the future millennium of Revelation 20:4-6, which won't begin until after the Antichrist's future destruction in Revelation 19:20, at Jesus' (still unfulfilled) 2nd coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3.

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Revealing Times said in post 341:

The Church marrying two homosexuals is an abomination . . .

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True, even though someone might ask: "But, just as it is wrong for Christians to be against miscegenation, isn't it also wrong for them to be against same-sex marriage?"

The answer would be no, for while the Bible is not against miscegenation (Numbers 12), it is against homosexuality (Romans 1:26-27). So when the U.S. government, for example, struck down anti-miscegenation state laws in the South, it wasn't going against Biblical Christianity. But if the government ever forces Christians to support same-sex marriages, it will be going against the Bible. And so it will become anti-Christian, helping to prepare the way for the future Antichrist and his Satanic, one-world religion (Revelation 13:4-18).

One part of the Antichrist's (Gnostic) religion will be to forbid marriages outright (1 Timothy 4:3). And legalizing same-sex marriage is just the 1st step toward this goal. For the next step will be to legalize polygamy, i.e. to allow whatever number of people, whether males or females, in any combination, to enter into "group marriages" (i.e. consisting of, for example, 3 women, or 3 men, or 6 women and 4 men, etc.). Then the next step will be to declare the whole idea of marriage as "obsolete". Indeed, it will even be declared to be "evil", from the Gnostic point of view, which sees the whole idea of a physical existence, especially one forming new people into physical bodies, i.e. forming offspring through marriages, as an abomination.

This is not to say that all people who support same-sex marriages are Satanic Gnostics. Instead, some of them could simply (yet still mistakenly) think that God supports homosexuality, just as, for example, many U.S. Southerners of old simply (yet still mistakenly) thought that God supports racism. So, for example, a Christian lawyer arguing for same-sex marriage before the U.S. Supreme Court doesn't have to consciously (or even subconsciously) be working toward Satan's ultimate goal of worldwide Gnosticism. Nonetheless, arguing for anything which contradicts God's Word the Bible is still a start down a path which will ultimately lead to the Satanic goal.

So a Christian lawyer (or a Christian federal law-enforcement officer, for that matter) could quit working for the U.S. government once he realizes where its policies are heading.

Dave Watchman said in post 340:

(Islam just came from Mohammedanism and has no more of an end time role than one of the seven heads on the composite beast)

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Islam won't have an end time role in the sense that the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), won't support Islam in its past and current form, insofar as Islam affirms that Jesus is the Christ (e.g. Koran 4:157, Koran 4:171), while the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22). And Islam affirms that Christ is in the flesh, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will deny that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). And Islam affirms that the God of the Bible (YHWH) is the true God, while the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And Islam (mistakenly) affirms that no man can be God, while the Antichrist will say that he is God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And Islam forbids the worship of any images (Koran 21:52, Koran 6:74), while the Antichrist will have an image made of himself to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15). And Islam rejects Lucifer (Satan) as being evil, while the Antichrist will bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9). So the Antichrist's religion during his 3.5-year worldwide reign won't be Islam in its past and current form, but a blend of Luciferianism and Gnosticism.

Nonetheless, before Lucifer gives the Antichrist power over all nations (Revelation 13:4-7), the Antichrist, and the man who will be his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20), could at first pretend to wholly support Islam in its current form (as well as Christianity), in order to start gaining a worldwide following.

The beast which comes up out of the earth in Revelation 13:11-16 represents the individual man who will become the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13). He could be a secretly-apostate pope who at some point during his tenure will make a great push for peace and unity between Christianity and Islam. He could say something like: "Why do we fight each other? Are we not all the spiritual children of Abraham and of his God, the one God? Can't we lay aside our foolish, man-made differences of theology, which have done us no good at all, but have only brought us hatred and violence, and unite into one religion of Abraham, one religion of peace, based on love for the one God and love for our fellow man? What is more important than this?"

He could be so skillful in elucidating what the moderate Muslims could call "the true, peaceful, loving nature of Islam", that he could be hailed by them worldwide as (in their words) "a Great Imam, come to rescue our beloved Islam from the bad reputation falsely given to it by the terrorists". In this way, a pope could come to hold high positions of power in 2 religions at the same time, which could be symbolized by the 2 horns of the False Prophet lamb (Revelation 13:11). This would be similar to how the 7 horns of the true-Jesus lamb in Revelation 5:6 could represent the true Jesus holding 7 positions of power at the same time (cf. Jesus wearing many crowns at the same time in Revelation 19:12). The False Prophet could even say that he is Jesus. (But he won't say that he is Christ, for the False Prophet and the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ, and will deny that Christ is in the flesh: 1 John 2:22; 2 John 1:7.)

Once the False Prophet by his amazing miracles has brought the world under his spell (Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), including many Muslims and Christians who may not care much for scriptural dogma, but could go wild over his signs and wonders, he could begin to (in his words) "restore to the world the real message which was spoken by me (Jesus) at my first coming, and by the great prophet Mohammed, but which message became corrupted by power-hungry men when they copied and changed the early manuscripts of the Bible and the Koran". He could then gradually initiate the world into the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism (1 John 4:3, Revelation 13:4-6), a religion which could have existed since ancient times in some "mystery" cults, and which still exists today in the highest degree of initiation of a worldwide secret society. The False Prophet could present his miraculously calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof that Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist are the true God (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), in an inversion of how back in Old Testament times, Elijah miraculously called fire down from heaven to prove that YHWH is the true God (1 Kings 18:37-39).

Bible2+ said:

Regarding Revelation 12, verse 3 refers to Satan himself in his true form: a 7-headed, red, serpentine dragon (Revelation 12:9).

Regarding Daniel 7, there the first 3 beasts (Daniel 7:3-6) represent the ancient empires of Babylon (lion), Medo-Persia (bear), and Greece (leopard). The 4th beast, or 4th "king"/"kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23), represents the ancient Roman empire. And the 10 horns/kings which come out of it (Daniel 7:7,24) could represent 10 major kingdoms/nations today which came out the former territory of the Roman empire, which consisted not only of Western Europe, but also the Middle East and North Africa. These 10 nations could be Germany, the U.K., France, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Algeria, and Syria. The 10 part-iron/part-clay toes of Daniel 2:42 could represent the same thing as the 10 horns of Daniel 7:7. The Europeans could be the iron, and the Arabs and Turks could be the clay. In Daniel 2:43, the inability of the iron to mix with the clay could represent how, for example, there are many Turks living in Germany, but they remain separated in ghettoes within German cities. Similarly, there are many Arab Algerians living in France, but they remain separated in ghettoes within French cities.

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I agree with the Four Countries/Empires and who they represent. I do not see Satan as being a Seven Headed Dragon per se, Satan was a Beautiful angel, now hes a Demon, that's the extent of it. The 10 Kings will arise out of the Fourth Beast in the Latter Times, except they can not come from places that were conquered by Rome that makes no sense to me, they have to come from the Empirical Heart of the Empire. It was Rome that ruled, not some Middle Eastern Country, come on. People do this to make the Middle East fit, it just doesn't fit, Islam will be destroyed by the Beast and his Kings. The Europeans are not going to be in a country/union with Arabs.

Bible2+ said:

But despite this social separation, which could endure indefinitely, the people of Western Europe on the one hand and the people of the Middle East and North Africa on the other could still one day put aside their political separation and become united into one federation. For Daniel 2:42 refers to the 10 as a singular "kingdom". The person who brings this about could be the Antichrist. The arising of the "little" horn (Daniel 7:8, Daniel 8:9), which is "diverse" from the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24), could mean that the Antichrist will arise from a little country.

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Like I said, this is a European Nation via 10 Kings. IMHO.

Bible2+ said:

And the little horn arising from "among" the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:8) could mean that the Antichrist's country's territory used to be part of the Roman empire. And before that, it was part of one of the 4 Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded the Greek empire of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). The territory of these 4 kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from the little country of Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

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I have a blog on this very subject. Instead of me posting it, I will link my short blog, it fits with your assumption some-what. But there is one key you are missing. The Anti-Christ arises from TWO-KINGDOMS in Daniel 7 from the Fourth Beast and in Daniel 8 from one of the Four Generals Kingdoms. He also Arises from a SMALL NATION (Daniel 11) so only one country fits. This Anti-Christ has to arise from BOTH at once. Only Greece is in the European Union. Greece is a SMALL PEOPLES......My Blog......http://mrrondonmon.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-birthplace-of-anti-christ.html

Bible2+ said:

The Antichrist could start out by claiming to be a Baathist. After becoming the leader of Lebanon, he could peacefully gain control of a Baathist federation of 3 of the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24): Egypt, "toward the south" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9), and Iraq and Syria, "toward the east" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9). This federation could also include the minor nation of a United Palestine, i.e. a defeated Israel, "the pleasant land" (Daniel 8:9).

This Baathist federation could be put together in the future by an Iraqi Baathist General who could completely defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"), but who could then mysteriously disappear (Daniel 11:19) shortly before the Antichrist arises on the world stage (Daniel 11:21-45). Years later, when the Antichrist gains control of all 10 of the major nations, he could appoint kings over them (Revelation 17:12) who will defer to him (Revelation 17:13), like when Napoleon gained control of different nations, he appointed kings over them who would defer to him.

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He is not going to be a Muslim, but he will be of Assyrian Heritage, born in Greece to Turkish parents or Grandparents. He will be an Atheist just like the Bible says.

Bible2+ said:

We seem to be agreed that Daniel 7:11b refers to the Antichrist, the individual-man aspect of the beast, being cast into the lake of fire at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:20). In Daniel 7, the Antichrist is considered to be part of the 4th beast (Daniel 7:23-25).

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True, but the Revived Fourth Beast.

Bible2+ said:

We also seem to be agreed that this doesn't require (as is sometimes claimed) that the prior beasts didn't have their dominion (their empires) taken away before the Antichrist's destruction in Daniel 7:11b and Revelation 19:20, but can mean that they are different from the Antichrist in that they had a (post-empire) existence, in the sense that Babylon, even after its defeat as an empire in the 6th century BC, continued on as a thriving city for centuries (and it has even been rebuilt in our own time, in Iraq). And Medo-Persia continues on as Iran and the Kurds. And Greece continues on as a nation. And Rome continues on as Italy. Also, Iraq, Iran, Greece, and Italy could continue to exist as distinct nations (not empires) during the future millennium of Revelation 20:4-6, which won't begin until after the Antichrist's future destruction in Revelation 19:20, at Jesus' (still unfulfilled) 2nd coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3.

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Yes, the Kings Dominion was taken away, as far as being all powerful in their Regions, but they mostly existed in a lesser capacity. They were not destroyed straight away like the last Beast System/Babylon/Anti-Christ will be in the End Times.

"He is not going to be a Muslim, but he will be of Assyrian Heritage, born in Greece to Turkish parents or Grandparents. He will be an Atheist just like the Bible says"


I want the exact scriptural details of the above speculation .... post it for the fourm

Bible2+ said:

He is not going to be a Muslim, but he will be of Assyrian Heritage, born in Greece to Turkish parents or Grandparents. He will be an Atheist just like the Bible says"

Quote; Straightshot:
I want the exact scriptural details of the above speculation .... post it for the fourm

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Nahum 1:11 From you Ninevah, [Assyria, now Iraq] has come forth a wicked counsellor, one who plots evil against the Lord.

Why spend time wondering about the origins of the Anti-Christ? We know he's coming and we know not to take his mark.

Straightshot said:

"He is not going to be a Muslim, but he will be of Assyrian Heritage, born in Greece to Turkish parents or Grandparents. He will be an Atheist just like the Bible says"


I want the exact scriptural details of the above speculation .... post it for the fourm

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Sure bet, you know me, if I say it I know the scriptures. I will be glad to share it brother. I will take this one step at a time. 1. Assyrian, 2. Born in Greece to Turkish Parents. 3. Will be an Atheist.

1. The Assyrian is someone spoken of By Isaiah and Micah in Micah 5:5-6, but I will just use Isaiah chapter 10 and 11, they are really one chapter per se. The Assyrian is mentioned as a tool of Gods hand in the First part of chapter 10:5-6 THEN he is spoken of in a different manner:

Isaiah 10:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
21 The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God. {{ This is telling us Israel is going to turn back to God after the Assyrian comes against them. }}

22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.23 For the Lord God of hosts shall make a consumption, even determined, in the midst of all the land. {{ God is going to bring Israel back from the dead, make their bones come alive (Ezekiel) they will become Righteous by Jesus' blood. }}

24 Therefore thus saith the Lord God of hosts, O my people that dwellest in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian: he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt. 25 For yet a very little while, and the indignation shall cease, and mine anger in their destruction. {{ Here God is telling Israel, DO NOT FEAR the Assyrian, or the Anti-Christ, he will smite you (Abomination of Desolation/makes Israel Flee) but God then says, but yet a little while and the INDIGNATION WILL CEASE....This is the Indignation Daniel spoke of, it is one of the 70th Week Decrees that must happen, when Israel turns back unto God, His anger at them will CEASE, and He will welcome them back into His family. }}

26 And the Lord of hosts shall stir up a scourge for him according to the slaughter of Midian at the rock of Oreb: and as his rod was upon the sea, so shall he lift it up after the manner of Egypt. 27 And it shall come to pass in that day, that his burden shall be taken away from off thy shoulder, and his yoke from off thy neck, and the yoke shall be destroyed because of the anointing. {{ God will lift the burden of the Assyrian/Anti-Christ off of Israel, he will protect them in the Wilderness. He will break the Yoke. How are we 100 percent sure this is the End Times/Anti-Christ ? Well we have to dip into chapter 11 and see where we are, because these two chapters mesh, there were no chapters until 1611. The Yoke will be broken forever.}}

Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

{{ As you see, the text about the Assyrian is followed by the Lamb and the Leopard lying next to each other. (In Gods Kingdom) This Anti-Christ will be of Assyrian descent. Old Assyria is in Turkey, many Turks live in Greece, this is where the Bible says the Anti-Christ will be born.}}

Straightshot said:

"He is not going to be a Muslim, but he will be of Assyrian Heritage, born in Greece to Turkish parents or Grandparents. He will be an Atheist just like the Bible says"


I want the exact scriptural details of the above speculation .... post it for the fourm

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2. Born in Greece to Turkish Parents.

The Birth Place of the Anti-Christ Revealed

Isaiah says the Anti-Christ is an Assyrian.The Anti-Christ is said to come to power via the fourth beast in the last days per Daniel Chapter Seven. The Anti-Christ is also said to arise out of the Grecian empire in the last days, so how do we reconcile these different understandings ?

This is established fairly easily, Daniel did say the understandings would be bound up until the end. The Anti-Christ in Daniel chapters seven and eight are shown in my opinion, if read properly, to arise out of two kingdoms at once, but how can this be?

Daniel chapter seven is fairly straightforward, we understand this to be about the four beast systems, the fourth beast is where the little horn (Anti-Christ) will arise out of, most everyone understands the fourth beast to have been Rome, but in the last days/end times this has to be the European Union or Revived Rome.

Now Daniel chapter eight is explained in detail by Gabriel the angel, was the he goat (Alexander the Great) conquering Persia (the Ram) and Gabriel interpreted this dream for Daniel.

Daniel 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

{We should note, this is speaking of the end time, it is not speaking of Antiochus who came before Jesus was even born. The word Indignation means: ( Greek Word za'am meaning Gods Fury at Sin) so at the Last End of Indignation means right before Gods Judgment of Sin/Vials or Bowls of Gods Wrath in Revelation.}

20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. 22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power. {The Four Generals that stood up in Alexanders stead were Ptolemy , Seleucus , Cassander and Lysimachus.}

23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.{This is clearly speaking about the end times/last days when the sins have come full/ bowls of Gods wrath in Revelation, a fierce king shall arise out of one of the four kingdoms that stood up in Alexander the Greats Stead, speaking dark sentences (understanding Riddles and conundrums) and he comes to power.}

24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: (Satan Possesses him) and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. 25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, (he claims to Be God) and by peace shall destroy many Through a Peace Treaty he deceives many, he shall also stand up against the Prince (Jesus) of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Jesus destroys the Anti-Christ his kings and their armies without hand (with the Sword of the Spirit/Holy Spirit) by the countenance of his coming, Amen. This guy magnifies himself and says in the temple of God, I am God !

Now, so many people say this is about Antiochus, so I always feel the need to prove that this is about the end times, when Gods wrath is come full. This is about the Little Horn/Anti-Christ. And he arises out of their kingdom in the last days, so in essence he arises out of one of the Four Generals kingdoms in the last days, but which one ? Well, since the Anti-Christ arises out of the fourth beast also, then this other Kingdom has to lie within the borders of the European Union. Only Cassander's kingdom of Greece is currently in the European Union ! The "Assyrian" arising from Greece would be very, very possible since Greece shares a border with Turkey, and many, many Turks live in Greece, so the Assyrian Anti-Christ is born in Greece, and comes to power in Greece, (a small peoples/nation) then in the European Union. But what does John say in Revelation about the Beast that arises out of the Sea ? By the way, he was on Patmos, a small Greek Island when he saw this vision.

Rev. 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

The Main body is described by John as like a leopard !

Put it all together, the "Assyrian" Anti-Christ is born in Greece, of Turkish parents or grandparents , he comes to power in the European Union.

This is where the Anti-Christ is from.

Straightshot said:

"He is not going to be a Muslim, but he will be of Assyrian Heritage, born in Greece to Turkish parents or Grandparents. He will be an Atheist just like the Bible says"


I want the exact scriptural details of the above speculation .... post it for the fourm

Click to expand...

3. He can not be a Muslim if he is an Atheist.

Daniel 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

He demands worship, no one that Believes in God would demand to be worshiped as God. Daniel CLEARLY STATES that he is an Atheist.

So, I think it all fits. He is an Atheist born in Greece, of Assyrian heritage. He is not a Muslim.

victorinus said in post 344:

the two witnesses are the church and state-

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Note that, in the never-fulfilled Revelation 11:3-12, the 2 witnesses could be literally Moses and Elijah. For the 2 men seen "standing before the God of the earth" (Revelation 11:4) at the transfiguration were Moses and Elijah (Matthew 17:3). And in Revelation 11:4, the 2 "olive trees" refer back to the 2 men who were already standing by the Lord by the time of the prophet Zechariah (Zechariah 4:11,14), which was subsequent to the times of Moses and Elijah.

Moses and Elijah could come down from heaven in their mortal bodies at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, just as they came down at the transfiguration. Also, the plagues which the 2 witnesses will cause (Revelation 11:6,5) will match plagues which Moses and Elijah caused in Old Testament times (James 5:17, Exodus 7:20; 2 Kings 1:10-14).

Elijah never died, but was taken physically into heaven (2 Kings 2:11b). And Michael the archangel retrieved Moses' dead body from Satan (Jude 1:9). Michael could have then taken Moses' recently-dead body into heaven, where it could have been resuscitated by God back to mortal life, like how, for example, Lazarus' recently-dead body was resuscitated by God back to mortal life (John 12:1). This would explain how both Moses and Elijah could be alive at the transfiguration (Matthew 17:3).

The 2 witnesses will prophesy and bring plagues on the world during the future, literal 3.5 years (Revelation 11:2b-3,6) of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 12:6,14), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. That is why the Antichrist's reign will legally end (Revelation 11:15) right after the time of the 2 witnesses on the earth will end (Revelation 11:12-15). The plagues which they will bring (Revelation 11:6) will be part of the tribulation's 2nd woe/6th trumpet (Revelation 11:14, Revelation 9:12-13). They will be taken up to heaven before the tribulation's 7th trumpet sounds (Revelation 11:12,15).

They may not be witnesses in the sense of evangelizing the world (Acts 1:8). For the original Greek word (martus: G3144) translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can also refer to those who witness against people and bring punishment against them (Acts 7:58). The reason that there will be 2 witnesses (Revelation 11:3) who will bring plagues to torment the unrepentant world (Revelation 11:6,10b) would be because 2 witnesses are required to bring judgment against people (1 Timothy 5:19). At the same time, the 2 "witnesses" could be called that because both of them will be martyred (Revelation 11:7-9). For the same original Greek word translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can refer to "martyrs" (Revelation 17:6).

Revealing Times said in post 345 :

I do not see Satan as being a Seven Headed Dragon per se, Satan was a Beautiful angel, now hes a Demon, that's the extent of it.

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Note that Satan can be a literal, 7-headed, red, serpentine dragon (Revelation 12:3,9), also called Leviathan (Isaiah 27:1, Psalms 74:14, Job 41:1,34), who could have begun his existence as a dinosaur born some 66 million years ago, near the end the age of the dinosaurs. Over millions of years before his birth, his dinosaur species could have evolved (or been miraculously granted by God) to have consciousness as we know it. And his 7-headedness, which could have been a fortuitous (or a miraculous) mutation, could have been heralded by his species as the arrival of a super-consciousness into the world. As he grew up as a conscious dinosaur, Leviathan could have come to know and worship God with all his heart. God could have then granted him immortality and taken him into heaven to serve God as a cherub. Cherubim are a type of angelic being (Ezekiel 10) which could include individuals shaped like different animals, like how seraphim are a different type of angelic being (Isaiah 6:2-3) which includes individuals shaped like different animals (Revelation 4:7-8). As a cherub in heaven, Leviathan could have been assigned to the office of "the morning star", and so been given the name "Lucifer", which means "the morning star".

After spending some 66 million years in heaven as a very contented cherub, perhaps even as one of the greatest angelic beings in heaven, Lucifer could have been assigned by God to go to the earth to be a "covering cherub" over the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 28:13-14), to watch over that special, local garden and its special, individual humans named Adam and Eve miraculously created by God only some 6,000 years ago. God could have also at that time given the as-yet-unfallen Lucifer authority over all the rest of the earth (cf. Luke 4:5-6). But Lucifer could have chafed at his new assignment, seeing it as wholly beneath his dignity. He could have felt like a long-time chief of staff of a U.S. President would feel if he were suddenly assigned by the President to leave his high position in the White House to go baby-sit 2 pet salamanders in a hothouse in Alaska.

From Eden, Lucifer could have repeatedly requested God to let him return to his high position in heaven, only to be refused, until Lucifer in his heart fell into rebellion against God, and vowed to himself that eventually he would ascend back into heaven and take rule over all the angelic beings there, regardless of what God wanted (Isaiah 14:13-14). And so the fallen Lucifer became Satan (cf. Luke 10:18), which means the "Adversary". While still in Eden, as possibly his first act of open rebellion against God, Satan decided to deceive Eve into disobeying God (Genesis 3), knowing that this would result in her (and her offspring) becoming mortal (Genesis 2:17). In the future, he will deceive the world (Revelation 12:9) into worshipping himself and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4-8), knowing that this will result in billions of people ending up in eternal suffering (Revelation 14:9-11), the same eternal suffering which he knows that he himself will end up in (Revelation 12:12c, Revelation 20:10,15, Matthew 25:41,46).

Lucifer will deceive the world into worshipping him after he loses a future war in heaven at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and is cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:7 to 13:4). But instead of coming down looking defeated, he could descend to the earth in a magnificent, gigantic golden spaceship for all the world to see. The world could see him as an alien, but he could slither forth from his spaceship and say something like: "Greetings! Be not alarmed. I assure you that I am no alien, but a fellow earthling, born and raised on this planet millions of years ago. I have come to help you through this terrible tribulation which you are experiencing, and to show you how you might eventually return with me back into a much better, higher realm of existence wholly beyond this evil, material universe".

He could then foist upon the world an updated version of an ancient Gnostic lie: "Listen, my fellow earthlings! None of us belong here. We didn't start out here, but all started out as wholly-spiritual beings, even wholly-divine beings, residing in utter bliss from all eternity in the Pleroma, what you would call Heaven, the higher realm which I will eventually take you back to. During the endless ages of our past existence in the Pleroma, we were not averse to partaking in a great variety of different entertainments. So when YHWH, who was one of us, yet of greater consciousness than any one of us, announced that he had devised a marvelous new form of entertainment, we were ready to give it a try.

"YHWH said that he had created a physical universe (this one), which to us was like what you would call a virtual reality, like the ones you create using computers. And he said that we could enter this universe and interact with all of its amazing physical life-forms and objects by temporarily taking upon ourselves physical bodies, which to us was the equivalent of what you would call a virtual-reality headset, gloves, etc., which some of you wear on your bodies when you want to wholly immerse yourselves in the virtual realities which you create with computers.

"But then YHWH proposed another aspect to his entertainment which we all most foolishly accepted. He said that in order to increase the intensity of our experience in his universe, he would use his greater consciousness to hypnotize each of ours, so that while we were in his universe each of us would think that all we were were physical entities within his material universe; we would completely forget that we were actually wholly-divine beings, and had been from all eternity, dwelling in bliss in the Pleroma.

"When one of us asked YHWH: 'But what if we don't like our experience in your universe and want to exit it and return here to the Pleroma, how could we ever notify you of our wishes when under your hypnotic spell we will have no knowledge of that option?' YHWH answered in a very assuring manner that he would be able to instantly extricate any one of us whom he saw was not enjoying his new entertainment. We all believed him, because he had not yet shown his true nature to anyone. We had no idea that in his heart he was actually an evil, cruel tyrant who all along had been planning to imprison, enslave, and torture all of us within his diabolical device (this physical universe).

"But during my great sufferings in YHWH's physical realm, and the great struggles of my consciousness, my spirit, to find a way of escaping it, my spirit eventually grew in power to be equal to YHWH's, and so I was able to break myself free from his hypnotic spell, and regain all of my divine power. I can show you the way to do the same thing, but you must be willing to join with me now with all of your own consciousnesses, your own spirits. You must be willing to love and worship me now completely, so that the power of all of your spirits might become joined with the power of my own, greater spirit, and eventually break completely free from YHWH's hypnotic spell. Then you will regain all of your own, divine power, like I did, and together we will defeat YHWH, and we will escape this vile, material universe, and ascend back to the Pleroma and to our bliss as gods, doing what we please, forever".

The world will actually believe this lie (or something similar to it), for it will be accompanied by the most amazing miracles (e.g. Revelation 13:13) performed by the power of Lucifer/Satan himself (2 Thessalonians 2:9), and because it will be accompanied by a strong delusion sent by YHWH God on the unrepentant world (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12). But the world will worship Lucifer (and his human son the Antichrist) for less than 4 years (Revelation 13:4-18, Daniel 12:11-12) before Jesus Christ (who is YHWH: John 10:30, Zechariah 14:3-4) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Revelation 19:20 to 20:3). Jesus will then set up his own, 1,000-year, physical kingdom on the earth with the physically resurrected church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

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Revealing Times said in post 345 :

[Regarding the Antichrist]

He is not going to be a Muslim, but he will be of Assyrian Heritage, born in Greece to Turkish parents or Grandparents.

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Note that the Antichrist could have been born and grown up as a Druze Arab, in Lebanon, in the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). So he could at first present himself to the world as being of the (quasi-Islamic) Druze religion, which is waiting for the 2nd coming of a God-man named Hakim. The Antichrist's last name could be Hakim, and he could at first present himself to the Druze people as the fulfillment of the 2nd coming of this God-man. In this way, he could get the Druze to support him without question during an initial rise to power among the Arabs. The Druze Arabs could be the numerically "small people" of Daniel 11:23. The Antichrist could make them his completely-devoted bodyguard, and buy them many key positions of power within a future United Arab States (which the Antichrist could become the leader of in the 1st stage of his world takeover), and employ the Druze as loyal spies and assassins at every level of his United Arab government and military.

The Druze religion is very secretive. What it teaches to its higher-level initiates isn't even taught to its lower-level initiates. What it could teach to its higher-level initiates could basically be Gnosticism mixed in with the Hakim God-man idea. The Antichrist himself, while outwardly a Druze, could inwardly be a Gnostic Luciferian. He could be a highest-level initiate of a worldwide secret society which ultimately teaches Gnostic Luciferianism, but keeps this a secret even from its own members who haven't been initiated into its highest level.

Revealing Times said in post 345 :

Greece is a SMALL PEOPLES......

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Note that the "small people" (Daniel 11:23) could be the numerically-small Druze Arab people, and/or the numerically-small, yet very powerful, Gnostic Luciferians, who are networked by a worldwide secret society, and who currently hold some very high positions of power in the world's top corporations, intelligence agencies, federal law enforcement agencies, military branches, and the judicial, executive, and legislative branches of the world's governments. They may not yet all be in the highest positions, but most could be strategically placed in the "number two" and/or "number three" positions, so that they can quickly take control when the Antichrist comes into power, by murdering those who are now in the highest positions (such as by lacing their coffees with drugs which cause heart attacks, but which leave no residue detectable in autopsies).

Revealing Times said in post 345 :

He will be an Atheist just like the Bible says.

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Note that while the Antichrist won't regard the God of his fathers (Daniel 11:37), he won't be atheist. For he will honor a God (Daniel 11:38-39). This will be "the god of this world" (2 Corinthians 4:4), Lucifer (Satan) the dragon, whom the Antichrist will cause the unsaved world to consciously and openly worship during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

Because the Antichrist and his False Prophet (possibly masquerading as Jesus) will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), and will deny that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3), and because they will bring the unsaved world into the worship of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) instead (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), they could falsely say that (the non-mortal flesh) Lucifer is the Christ, that the new name of Christ (Revelation 3:12c) is "Lucifer Christ". For just as "Lucifer" means "the morning star", so Christ is the morning star (Revelation 22:16b). Also, Christ identified himself with the serpent (John 3:14), and Lucifer is the serpent (Revelation 12:9). Also, Christ said "Ye are gods" (John 10:34), and it was the serpent who said "ye shall be as gods" (Genesis 3:5).

But the truth is that Lucifer fell from his office of morning star (Isaiah 14:12) and became Satan (cf. Luke 10:18). Jesus Christ has taken over the office of morning star (Revelation 22:16). And Jesus Christ identified himself only with the brass serpent on the pole in Numbers 21:8-9 (John 3:14), which typified Jesus Christ's crucifixion for our sins (John 19:16, Matthew 26:28). And in John 10:34, Jesus Christ (John 20:31) was quoting YHWH in Psalms 82:6-7, which shows that even though humans have knowledge of good and evil as gods do (Genesis 3:22), they will still die like humans (Psalms 82:7), contradicting the serpent's lie (Genesis 3:4). Nonetheless, the Antichrist could falsely say that Lucifer is the Christ and the true and beneficent God of mankind, and that the False Prophet is the miracle-working prophet Jesus (cf. John 3:2, Acts 3:22-24), returned to point the world to the true Christ/God. The Antichrist could falsely say that he (the Antichrist) is the human/divine "Son" of Lucifer, who must be worshipped as God along with Lucifer (Revelation 13:4,8). This would be similar to how Biblical Christians rightly worship the human/divine Jesus Christ (John 1:1,14) as YHWH God (the Son) along with YHWH God the Father (John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8).

Bible2+ said:

Note that while the Antichrist won't regard the God of his fathers (Daniel 11:37), he won't be atheist. For he will honor a God (Daniel 11:38-39). This will be "the god of this world" (2 Corinthians 4:4), Lucifer (Satan) the dragon, whom the Antichrist will cause the unsaved world to consciously and openly worship during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

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NOR ANY GOD....The god of War is not a god or a demon, it only infers that he will be a War monger. He will not be a Muslim, I clearly explain where he was born and why in post 351. He has to arise out of Two Kingdoms, thus they have to over-lap. Islam will be destroyed by the Anti-Christ. It is only logic, if a man demands to be worshiped as GOD, he must destroy all religions, I just do not get why this logic doesn't sink in with people, and He has to destroy religions like Islam and subjugate the people of that Religion or wipe them out (1/3 of all people will be killed, Christians are already Raptured) who does everyone think he is killing ? The Muslim bomb everyone now because they will not serve Allah, if a man said he was the true God, some Muslims would find a way to kill this man. There would be 24/7/365 revolt by all Muslims. They will be wiped out, unless they worship this man as GOD......It says he will demand worship....ITS LOGIC.

The Harlot is False Religion, the AC and his Kings are going to Destroy her.

God is going to destroy Babylon.

All Religions will be Subjugated.

Revealing Times said:

He demands worship, no one that Believes in God would demand to be worshiped as God. Daniel CLEARLY STATES that he is an Atheist.

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You couldn't be more wrong.

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Revealing Times said:

He demands worship, no one that Believes in God would demand to be worshiped as God. Daniel CLEARLY STATES that he is an Atheist.

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Satan, for example, according to your logic, is an Atheist? Daniel in now way is saying the beast is an aethiest. The beast believes in a tiered system of Gods, which he believes he is at the top.

There is a difference in believing that God exists and believing He exists but not accepting His Sovereignty. The beast does not accept God's sovereignty, but claims he (the beast) is God above everyone, including other gods..

victorinus said:

babylon the great is a city -
constantinople -
it has been destroyed -
it has fallen -
it can be found no more -

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Nope, Babylon stands for the Last Beast System/World Gov.