Need help debating a KJV only person

DiscipleEthan

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I have been dealing with a KJV only person for a long time. He uses Acts 18:24-26 to try to attack the Alexandrian manuscripts and claim that Alexandria is the center of perverstion of manuscripts. and has also claimed that the early church wrote against Alexandrians. I feel like he is taking the acts verses out of context. How do I refute these accusations from KJV onlyers? I need better defenses against them. thanks. and the acts verse are below:

Acts 18:24-26 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
 

Archie the Preacher

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Ethan, don't bother. The 'passion' about the KJV is not based on evidence, data, argument or even clarity of translation. It's based on emotional connection. The KJV is what [circle one] - parent, grandparent, favorite preacher, very important mentor, Peter and Paul - used and they're not going to give it up.

Keep that in mind about other issues as well. Facts will never displace emotion.
 
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DPMartin

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KJV is the essential text used to the English speaking world, translated by those who own the language, for most of the passed 400 year's that has brought the Gospel message to you and the rest of the English speaking. what is it that you would have against it? its proved its worth and value and the Lord's support, were as other supposed English versions (mainly American versions) are not proved by time, and not in the same category as the KJV.
 
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Greg J.

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Ask him which is more accurate: the KJV or the ancient Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic manuscripts. Which contains the actual words that came out of Jesus' mouth?

If you can't take it from there, ask further questions here.

However, KJV is by far good enough to know and spread the Good News and know God. I don't have much of a problem with the KJV, only with the assertion that it is more accurate than the original manuscripts and/or the logic that accompanies that.
 
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DPMartin

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Ask him which is more accurate: the KJV or the ancient Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic manuscripts. Which contains the actual words that came out of Jesus' mouth?

If you can't take it from there, ask further questions here.

However, KJV is by far good enough to know and spread the Good News and know God. I don't have much of a problem with the KJV, only with the assertion that it is more accurate than the original manuscripts and/or the logic that accompanies that.

hey, if you have the smarts, time, and inclination to learn Greek Hebrew and Aramaic, God bless but most have lives to live and are not masters of the language they use, and must have something that can be reasonably trusted to be as good as it gets for a translation. also Greek isn't the language Jesus spoke when He walked amongst His people. it was Hebrew and I do believe most, if not all of the NT originals are in Greek, so that was also translated. if you are going to go that far Latin, as in what was used to translate roman catholic documents, would also be wise.


note the fact that "King of the Jews" was written in Greek Hebrew and Latin which turns out to be the foundational languages in the matter of the spreading of the gospel of Jesus Christ. therefore, English in the case of KJV is set forth by the originators of English that based their translation on all three of those languages.
 
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DiscipleEthan

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KJV is the essential text used to the English speaking world, translated by those who own the language, for most of the passed 400 year's that has brought the Gospel message to you and the rest of the English speaking. what is it that you would have against it? its proved its worth and value and the Lord's support, were as other supposed English versions (mainly American versions) are not proved by time, and not in the same category as the KJV.


What do you mean? I hope you're aren't KJV only as well
 
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JackRT

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The King James Version of the New Testament was based upon a Greek text (the Textus Receptus) that was marred by mistakes, containing the accumulated errors of fourteen centuries of manuscript copying. It was essentially the Greek text of the New Testament as edited by Beza, 1589, who closely followed that published by Erasmus, 1516-1535, which was based upon a few medieval manuscripts. The earliest and best of the eight manuscripts which Erasmus consulted was from the tenth century, and yet he made the least use of it because it differed most from the commonly received text; Beza had access to two manuscripts of great value, dating from the fifth and sixth centuries, but he made very little use of them because they differed from the text published by Erasmus. We now possess many more ancient manuscripts (about 9000 compared to just 10) of the New Testament, and thanks to another 400 years of biblical scholarship, are far better equipped to seek to recover the original wording of the Greek text. However, having said that, I find that I love the archaic majesty of Jacobean English. That same eloquence is also present in the contemporary Douay-Rheims version. Much as we might love the KJV, modern translations are more accurate.
 
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MWood

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There is no way to judge accuracy of the manuscripts that we have. Period. ALL of the original writings have been gone for 2000 years or so. THERE ARE NO ORIGINAL MANSCRIPTS. THERE IS NO WAY TO CONFIRM THE ACCURACY OF ANY MANUSCRIPTS. ANYONE THAT SAYS THAT SO AND SO MANUSCRIPTS ARE MORE ACCURATE, ARE NOT TELLING THE TRUTH. PERIOD.
 
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Archie the Preacher

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There is no way to judge accuracy of the manuscripts that we have. Period. ALL of the original writings have been gone for 2000 years or so. THERE ARE NO ORIGINAL MANSCRIPTS. THERE IS NO WAY TO CONFIRM THE ACCURACY OF ANY MANUSCRIPTS. ANYONE THAT SAYS THAT SO AND SO MANUSCRIPTS ARE MORE ACCURATE, ARE NOT TELLING THE TRUTH. PERIOD.
Therefore, the manuscripts used in translation of the KJV are as suspect as those used currently. Good to know.
 
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AV1611VET

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I have been dealing with a KJV only person for a long time. He uses Acts 18:24-26 to try to attack the Alexandrian manuscripts and claim that Alexandria is the center of perverstion of manuscripts. and has also claimed that the early church wrote against Alexandrians. I feel like he is taking the acts verses out of context. How do I refute these accusations from KJV onlyers?
Ask him if he thinks God cared enough to preserve His word and present It to the English-speaking populace without error.
 
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JackRT

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Modern translations are inclined to interpret as well as translate (eg Jude 1:7)

But we also must remember that the bible itself is an interpretation even in the original manuscripts.
 
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Archie the Preacher

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AV1611VET said:
Ask him if he thinks God cared enough to preserve His word and present It to the English-speaking populace without error.
Of course He does. That's why He enabled current, living men and women to translate His message into modern languages. That's why He will do so again in the future.
 
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BryanMaloney

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Several places to start:

1) The KJV does not use the same Old Testament that the Apostles and Christ used: "The LXX helps explain what Paul might have meant by ‘all Scripture.’ As previously mentioned, this is the version Paul most often quotes. And in some cases the claims of the New Testament theologically depend on the peculiarities of the LXX.

For instance, Hebrews 10:5 quotes Psalm 40:6 as a messianic prophecy:

Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says, ‘sacrifice and offering Thou hast not desired, but a body Thou hast prepared for Me.’
The author has directly quoted from the LXX Psalter. A quick turn to our modern Bibles will confirm that the Hebrew text reads:

Sacrifice and meal offering Thou hast not desired; My ears Thou hast opened.
Based on the Hebrew text, the author of Hebrews has not only misquoted the passage, but has made his mistaken citation a central part of his argument. Only the rendering of the LXX justifies this as a Messianic passage. Did the author of Hebrews get it wrong? Was it an inspired mistake?

In Acts 7:14 St. Stephen relates the story of the Israelite nation, and refers to seventy-five people who traveled from Canaan to Egypt in the emigration of Jacob's family. This is not what Genesis 46 states in our Bibles, where it catalogues seventy sojourners. But the LXX lists seventy-five people, confirming St. Stephen's account, with the differences accounted for by the grand- and great-grandchildren of Joseph (Gen 46:20-22).

Most importantly, it is only in the LXX that Isaiah's prophecy of the Virgin Birth makes its bold appearance (Is 7:14). The Hebrew text uses the word ‘woman’ (‘marah’) instead of ‘virgin’ (‘parthenos’). In their earliest confrontations with Christians, Jews objected most strongly to this verse being used to support Jesus' Messiahship. The Jews claimed that Isaiah was prophesying of King Hezekiah and he knew nothing of a miraculous virgin birth. The Septuagint, they said, had been tampered with. The early Christians responded by claiming that it was not they, but the Jews who had cut passages out of the Hebrew text out of envy. (Justin Martyr, Trypho, 71-73)

If we agree with the ancient Jews that the LXX translation was a faulty translation, then why is such a substandard text part of Holy, Inspired Scripture? Doesn't the New Testament suggest that the LXX was considered not just trustworthy, but even preferred by the Apostles? This is not out of harmony with the testimony of the Early Church, which regarded it as a sound and inspired translation.

As a Bible believing Christian, facing this dilemma was not easy. I felt that by trying to honestly grapple with textual issues, I was questioning the authority of God's Word. This is not at all what I intended. I simply wanted integrity in my Christian faith. With time, as I struggled through some of these facts, I realized I needed to come to Scripture on its own terms, not on my expectations as a twentieth century Westerner. This desire for integrity aided me as I swallowed hard and proceeded to study the canon of the Old Testament." (http://www.kalvesmaki.com/LXX/)

Second, American KJV cultists HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE the "Apocrypha". The original KJV included these books. Have him explain how an "infallible" translation could start out with such an enormous "error".

Third, in the introduction to the KJV, the translators/editors wrote the following: "Now in such a case, doth not a margine do well to admonish the Reader to seeke further, and not to conclude or dogmatize upon this or that peremptorily? For as it is a fault of incredulitie, to doubt of those things that are evident: so to determine of such things as the Spirit of God hath left (even in the judgment of the judicious) questionable, can beno lesse then presumption. Therfore as S. Augustine saith, that varietie of Translations is profitable for the finding out of the sense of the Scriptures: so diversitie of signification and sense in the margine,"

In addition, consult the following:
http://www.kjvonly.org/james/may_great_inconsistency.htm
http://www.baptistdeception.com/kjv-only-deception/#.V9lBpFsrLcs
https://bible.org/article/why-i-do-not-think-king-james-bible-best-translation-available-today
 
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AV1611VET

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Of course He does. That's why He enabled current, living men and women to translate His message into modern languages. That's why He will do so again in the future.
Which one is the current one?
 
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