US Prison Inmates Strike In Prisons Nationwide Over Slave Labor, Working Conditions

Audacious said:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...de-prison-strike-alabama-south-carolina-texas

Personally, I think this is fantastic and long overdue. Slavery of any form is wrong, and that includes forced labor and paying people literally pennies a day because you can. I don't care if they're criminals or black people or any other outgroup -- you don't get to oppress people for the sole purpose that it's convenient or cost-effective. This is the real world, and denying people their rights is wrong even if you don't like them.

Criminals are still human beings. They're already being punished for their crimes. We at least owe them humane working conditions and fair pay.

Click to expand...

+1000

Seriously, the way we treat our criminals is a reflection of our morals and values and in this Country it is shameful.

Prisoners come out of prison worse than when they came in.

Stop. Process that thought.

Our prisons have become a factory that makes criminals worse then throws them back into society.

It is in our own selfish interests to make our prisons much more humane and rehabilitative.

We have got to get over the stigma of treating prisoners as less than human.

Many inmates are in prison because they made a fortune selling drugs and helping addicts to destroy their own lives. Driving high end cars in depleted neighborhoods, exploiting the poor children because they're minors and won't likely do hard time, just to get them to sling the drugs that helps make their family a better living.

I think labor prisons are a fantastic idea. Earn your keep rather than have the tax payers they preyed upon take care of them. With television, free stamps, stationary, clothes, linen, radios, all manner of things they're given because they're criminals.
And then those same inmates make their own money charging weaker inmates rent! Yes, that's right. Rent! That inmates family on the outside puts money on the books of the "cell lord" on the inside. As rent to protect their loved one from being abused for not paying. Or worse.
Prison is not free for the weaklings. And that's why labor prisons should be a standard across the nation for all inmates. Earn their keep. And if we want to help America's economy, stop outsourcing there too.
I heard of one prison that use to make custom furniture. Beautiful pieces on order. Then it was shut down. The inmates learned a sense of pride working with their hands on something that started out raw lumber and that they turned into beautiful furniture. Carved with patterns as well in many orders.
And it taught them a trade for those who would be released eventually. They actually had a skills resume to show for their time served.

These inmates don't want to work for slave wages, which is Constitutional, don't commit the crime(s) that end up sending them there. Really simple.

They're protesting because they're made to work for slave labor wages as prisoners.
Well heck, when they were out they made huge money preying on the working class!

Deal with it.

What? You don't want your manual labor jobs being oversea, you don't want them in prisons, you don't want to pay for liveable wages... What do you people want?!

Gulags are not for civilised societies. About time this changed.

Audacious said:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...de-prison-strike-alabama-south-carolina-texas

Personally, I think this is fantastic and long overdue. Slavery of any form is wrong, and that includes forced labor and paying people literally pennies a day because you can. I don't care if they're criminals or black people or any other outgroup -- you don't get to oppress people for the sole purpose that it's convenient or cost-effective. This is the real world, and denying people their rights is wrong even if you don't like them.

Criminals are still human beings. They're already being punished for their crimes. We at least owe them humane working conditions and fair pay.

Click to expand...

What's fair pay? Minimum wage?

I ask because just to house prisoners it costs money. Most people in prison are there to pay a debt to society. There is merit in allowing prisoners to save money for use to reintegrate in society. Most who are willing learn a trade or take courses. That costs money. Working these costs off for their benefit is not slavery.

redleghunter said:

What's fair pay? Minimum wage?

I ask because just to house prisoners it costs money. Most people in prison are there to pay a debt to society. There is merit in allowing prisoners to save money for use to reintegrate in society. Most who are willing learn a trade or take courses. That costs money. Working these costs off for their benefit is not slavery.

Click to expand...

Selling magazines over the phone isn't a trade, but they have prisoners doing that in NM all while paying them $0.30/hr and taxing it. If anything, they should be getting paid more than that. Likewise, if you want inmates to not go back to prison, design programs that actually teach them something that will prevent them from coming back. You know, it's cheaper when you don't attempt to hurt and humiliate people while serving time in prison, I would like the guy getting out to not go back. Not everyone is a murderer, most of them are non-violent offenders, it would be nice if they did not become violent because of the poor prison conditions.

SummerMadness said:

Selling magazines over the phone isn't a trade, but they have prisoners doing that in NM all while paying them $0.30/hr and taxing it. If anything, they should be getting paid more than that. Likewise, if you want inmates to not go back to prison, design programs that actually teach them something that will prevent them from coming back. You know, it's cheaper when you don't attempt to hurt and humiliate people while serving time in prison, I would like the guy getting out to not go back. Not everyone is a murderer, most of them are non-violent offenders, it would be nice if they did not become violent because of the poor prison conditions.

Click to expand...

They have programs in CA. So inmates can learn a trade. I know this this, because my adopted brother killed someone and is taking a course in electrician . So he could get a job, when he gets out. So that means tax payers are paying for a course in electrician, room and board, food, medical and church services. That all cost money. I work and cant afford to go to college. But my brother is in prison can. That's crazy to me.

redleghunter said:

What's fair pay? Minimum wage?

I ask because just to house prisoners it costs money. Most people in prison are there to pay a debt to society. There is merit in allowing prisoners to save money for use to reintegrate in society. Most who are willing learn a trade or take courses. That costs money. Working these costs off for their benefit is not slavery.

Click to expand...

It absolutely is, it could be nothing else.

Audacious said:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...de-prison-strike-alabama-south-carolina-texas

Personally, I think this is fantastic and long overdue. Slavery of any form is wrong, and that includes forced labor and paying people literally pennies a day because you can. I don't care if they're criminals or black people or any other outgroup -- you don't get to oppress people for the sole purpose that it's convenient or cost-effective. This is the real world, and denying people their rights is wrong even if you don't like them.

Criminals are still human beings. They're already being punished for their crimes. We at least owe them humane working conditions and fair pay.

Click to expand...

Frankly, I do not see this as enslavement the fact is they are being paid, even if it is a pittance, which , by definition, means they are not enslaved just incarcerated. They are also being fed and housed and clothed and being afforded free education and health care and exercise facilities. In short, they are living out the equivalent of a socialist's dream with each of them being totally cared for and their behavior regulated by the government.

grasping the after wind said:

Frankly, I do not see this as enslavement the fact is they are being paid, even if it is a pittance, which , by definition, means they are not enslaved just incarcerated.

Click to expand...

Slaves being payed a "pittance" has been a tradition since ancient roman times. Some ancient slaves actually saved up for years until they could buy their freedom.

Slavery is not defined by being forced to work without pay, but by being forced to work without fair recompensation, and without a way to refuse to work entirely.

What part of "criminal offenders" don't some understand?
Do some bleeding hearts want prison to be a country club?
An abused child, a person raped, the family of a murdered person, the victim of
burglary, is sentenced to LIFE with horrible memories, physical and emotional
damage.
The murder victim is NEVER coming back.
A rape victim is emotionally damaged for LIFE.
Get it?
22.5 years as a police officer, 13 major injuries, nine months in rehab learning to walk
right again, witnessing an 8 year old raped, families of rape and murder victims
sentenced to a life or horrible memories.
I'm out of sympathy for criminals.
I've seen those criminal that were "rehabilitated" for terrible offenses that commit
again and again and again till caught again or killed by other "rehabilitated" criminals.
Two habitual offenders that beat a 93 year old deaf and blind man to death for
$28 bucks.
I arrested them both. They are out now and have been.
The animal that had forced anal sex with a FIVE year old boy while on parole for
raping a ten year old boy!
Wonder how rehabilitated they are?
Oh, did I mention I STILL suffer permanent pain from by 4th broken back!?
The nice guy that broke my back did his term in prison and has been out of
jail smoking dope, having sex and making more babies we have to support,
and probably committing more crimes.
Or perhaps someone in the mean streets killed the guy?
Don't know, don't care.
Nice tidy world some members here live in ain't it?
Better get real, get a gun, and learn to defend yourselves.

Free them all, they are innocent after all, and lock up all the police. I want to live in the utopia I keep hearing about.

jeager016 said:

What part of "criminal offenders" don't some understand?
Do some bleeding hearts want prison to be a country club?
An abused child, a person raped, the family of a murdered person, the victim of
burglary, is sentenced to LIFE with horrible memories, physical and emotional
damage.
The murder victim is NEVER coming back.
A rape victim is emotionally damaged for LIFE.
Get it?
22.5 years as a police officer, 13 major injuries, nine months in rehab learning to walk
right again, witnessing an 8 year old raped, families of rape and murder victims
sentenced to a life or horrible memories.
I'm out of sympathy for criminals.
I've seen those criminal that were "rehabilitated" for terrible offenses that commit
again and again and again till caught again or killed by other "rehabilitated" criminals.
Two habitual offenders that beat a 93 year old deaf and blind man to death for
$28 bucks.
I arrested them both. They are out now and have been.
The animal that had forced anal sex with a FIVE year old boy while on parole for
raping a ten year old boy!
Wonder how rehabilitated they are?
Oh, did I mention I STILL suffer permanent pain from by 4th broken back!?
The nice guy that broke my back did his term in prison and has been out of
jail smoking dope, having sex and making more babies we have to support,
and probably committing more crimes.
Or perhaps someone in the mean streets killed the guy?
Don't know, don't care.
Nice tidy world some members here live in ain't it?
Better get real, get a gun, and learn to defend yourselves.

Click to expand...

Prisoners treated badly in prison have high rates of recidivism.

Prisoners treated with respect in prison have much lower rates of recidivism.

So it all depends how safe you want your society to be. If you want lower crime rates, and fewer victims of crime, then treat prisoners with respect. If you want a more dangerous society with higher crime, and more victims of crime, then treat prisoners like animals.

Oafman said:

Prisoners treated badly in prison have high rates of recidivism.

Prisoners treated with respect in prison have much lower rates of recidivism.

Click to expand...

I'd like to see a cite that criminals incarcerated for similar crimes, with similar backgrounds, recidivate at different rates based on the level of respect with which they are treated. And a workable definition of "treatment with respect". TIA.

Regards,
Shodan

SummerMadness said:

Selling magazines over the phone isn't a trade, but they have prisoners doing that in NM all while paying them $0.30/hr and taxing it. If anything, they should be getting paid more than that. Likewise, if you want inmates to not go back to prison, design programs that actually teach them something that will prevent them from coming back. You know, it's cheaper when you don't attempt to hurt and humiliate people while serving time in prison, I would like the guy getting out to not go back. Not everyone is a murderer, most of them are non-violent offenders, it would be nice if they did not become violent because of the poor prison conditions.

Click to expand...

You are correct those who will re-integrate with society need something, a trade or degree to lean on before they are released. As I stated in my last post you responded to.

I also agree prison conditions must be humane. They don't have to have the comforts of life and be easy and idle either. It is prison and those there are mostly working off a debt to society.

aieyiamfu said:

It absolutely is, it could be nothing else.

Click to expand...

Then I would ask, what is your alternative for those who are paying their debt to society?

Shodan said:

I'd like to see a cite that criminals incarcerated for similar crimes, with similar backgrounds, recidivate at different rates based on the level of respect with which they are treated

Click to expand...

There is no possibility of finding figures for a statistically significant number of people from the same background (by which, I assume you include nationality) who go through radically different criminal justice systems.

Instead, we could look at rates of recidivism amongst different developed world countries, and compare them with the principles of the criminal justice system in each case? This discussion never gets far before Norway's fantastically successful criminal justice system gets a mention...!

While we are getting posts about criminals imprisoned for murder, rape and child abuse, with the emotional appeals that this entails, the fact is that the by far biggest number of prisoners is imprisoned for drug offenses. In fact, according to the Bureau of Prisons, they are nearly half of the entire prison population (46.4%).

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offenses.jsp

Audacious said:

Criminals are still human beings. They're already being punished for their crimes. We at least owe them humane working conditions and fair pay.

Click to expand...

Being lockup without freedom of movement, incarceration, is paying the penalty for crime.
Humane working conditions should be a given.
Fair pay for labor in order to take care of oneself is justifiable. Taxpayers pay on the average $36,000 per yr. per prisoner. They are not taking care of themselves or their families.
So is there a solution that is both fair to all concerned and respects the inmate who respects themselves and others? I believe there is and I believe there is a way to encourage this mind set.
1. The first thing that needs to happen is for the governments to get out of business with private prison corporations who are paid $36,000 by the taxpayers and are making millions every year off the products that inmates build.
2. Inmates are paid a fair wage, starting at minimum wage, for their labor.
3. Inmates see these funds put into their account and out of that they pay their own food, clothing, and shelter.
5. Inmates pay for medical ins. through a group plan that goes into a fund for shared medical services.
4. Inmates pay their child support, a percentage of the wages after their own food, clothing, shelter, and medical.
5. Inmates that have any left over funds put 10% in a savings account that is theirs upon release.
6. Inmates who still have funds can use those funds anyway they choose within what is legal and decent.
7. Inmates are given the opportunity to advance their labor skills and are paid according to their efforts and success.
8. Inmates should also have a record, that they can see, of guaranteed specific time off their sentence for their success.

There will always be exceptions to the rule. Some people are so violent and/or so mentality ill, that they should never be allowed to reenter society and that includes within the prison system society itself.

The people hired, especially guards, should be thoroughly vetted, including a mental evaluation, to insure that they are the type of person who can be respectful to inmates that are making efforts to live in a decent society within the prison system.

We need to reevaluate the people who are serving time for non-violent crimes or crimes such as simple possession of drugs for their own use.
We need to standardize prison terms across the country. I believe this because the taxpayer is paying for inmates that were arrested from all states around the country. So one state gives a person 5 yrs. for possession and another state gives 2 yrs. and that can even depend on the judge overseeing the conviction. I don't see the logic either morally or financially.

aieyiamfu said:

It absolutely is, it could be nothing else.

Click to expand...

It is not slavery to have to take care of yourself and your family even while in prison. But one must have the means to do that.
When there are working people on the outside, who have never committed a criminal offense, that cannot support themselves and their families, let alone have .30 cents and hr. left over after the necessities of life, the incarcerated person is better off financially than they are.