Does Almightiness confer Moral Uprightness?
- Thread starter Radrook
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My perspective is found here.
http://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/death/wicked.php#.V9JwH7v6tOw
So you consider everything in existence God because he made it? How so? Wouldn't that lead us to conclude that the most repulsive, nauseating things we observe on Earth are also literally God?
There is something not quite right with that premise.
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I look forward to our discussion tomorrow. God bless.
That's a very beautiful logo with the blinking Cat!
Thanks! God bless. We'll discus more tomorrow.
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This thread tl;dr.
God's Goodness does this. It is bolstered by his omniscience (he knows he is #1 in wisdom and Goodness). He also has moral righteousness over us because he created us ("creator rights").
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VanillaSunflowers
Black Lives Don't Matter More Than Any Other Life
I think we have to start from the beginning to understand what I propose.
God is the source of everything that exists isn't he?
John1:2-5, Colossians 1:16, in the Protestant scriptures.
In the Catholic we have Ecclesiasticus 43:26-27
26.Thanks to God, his messenger reaches port, everything works out according to his word. 27 We could say much more and still fall short; to put it concisely, 'He is all.'
Just some examples. When God is the source for all that exists because he is the creator of all that exists, how can anything not be of its creator? Its source? It all has its beginning in the creator of it;God.
As for the repulsive nauseating things,everything is sourced from God and it is made according to his will. It all works its own processes through his imbuing his power and authority as creator. It was born from God and it developed with every attribute God gave it. That doesn't mean God is pulling the strings that make something nauseating or repulsive. It does mean everything that exists can only be in existence do to the creator of reality.
What else would be responsible for all things in creation and created?
Thank you for the article about Hell.
What is your personal belief?
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Because a creator creates he automatically has moral righteousness over the created creature?
That doesn't sound right.
Did Dr. Frankenstein have a right to do anything he pleased with his creation because he created it?
Actually some parents feel exactly that way and wind up killing their kids. Goebbels laced his children's drinks with cyanide so that they would die along with his beloved idol Hitler.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goebbels_children
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VanillaSunflowers
Black Lives Don't Matter More Than Any Other Life
Let's keep fictional characters out of this. Dr.Frankenstein had the attributes Mary Shelley gave him and nothing more.
And Goebbels is an obscene red herring thinking in any respect that has relevancy to God. Goebbels was a psychotic Nazi. Conferring a god reference in his direction just bolsters the image the sick man wanted to manifest for himself.
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Hieronymus
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Hieronymus
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Very good question which should have occurred to me but somehow didn't. Thanks!
I think the response will be that God simply is the way he morally is by his very nature and didn't actually go about setting up standards but just follows the way that he feels.
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Hieronymus
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Agreed.
This makes God the standard of the moral of God.
And that's what i meant by God deciding what is good and what is bad.
We do not decide this, obviously.
But, luckily God taught us the highest moral, it is Love (Agape).
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VanillaSunflowers
Black Lives Don't Matter More Than Any Other Life
I would say the same to you. A fictional character as no relevance here.
And conferring any relevance to Goebbels is ignorant.
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It isn't the character. It is the moral lesson involved in the drama or historical event.
LOL!
Do you know what a premise is?
A premise is a reason for reaching a conclusion.
Such a premise is part of deductive reasoning and is set up as part of a syllogism.
Yours can be illustrated syllogistically as flows.
Major premise: All creators have unrestricted rights over their creation
Minor premise: God is a creator
Conclusion: God has unrestricted rights over us, [his creation.]
The premise might be flawed and if it is, then the conclusion will be false although valid for being in harmony with the major premise.
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But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred in his hands; so the potter formed it into another pot, shaping it as seemed best to him. (bold mine, Jeremiah 18:4, 1984 NIV)
Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use? (Romans 9:21, 1984 NIV)
That depends on where you get your sense of morality. If someone doesn't accept that God always acts morally, then they've created their own—probably more comfy—moral system.
You turn things upside down, as if the potter were thought to be like the clay! Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, “He did not make me”? Can the pot say of the potter, “He knows nothing”? (bold mine, Isaiah 29:16, 1984 NIV)
For more of the morality of a potter: Isaiah 41:25, Isaiah 45:9, Isaiah 64:8, Jeremiah 18:6, Jeremiah 19:11.
By the way, God didn't "choose" what is moral and what is not. Morality comes from his nature, which has always been the same.
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If indeed his moral nature has always been the same, then why does he consider men such as David, Abraham, Jacob, and Solomon acceptable even though they had wives and concubines and then suddenly becomes very vehemently sensitive in the NT demanding that men only have one wife or else be guilty of adultery-a practice he describes as works of the flesh?
That potter clay scripture engenders many controversial issues.
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VanillaSunflowers
Black Lives Don't Matter More Than Any Other Life
I understand what a premise is. And your introduction of those characters however you think to excuse it now is flawed.
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I am not attempting to excuse it. I am attempting to refute it. The examples provided were negative specifically for the purpose of refuting the claim that creatorship grants the creator full rights to do as he pleases.
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This is all fine and good, and it is right that God, being God, declares what is righteous, but there is this thing called "good and evil". "Good and evil" is a thing that man gained a knowledge of. One could argue that God made good and evil, but perhaps good and evil simply are and God simply gave the knowledge in the tree of the knowledge of good and evil of something that God recognizes also.
Did God make good and evil or they simply a product of existence? I would say that good and evil exist even if God didn't say they were good and evil, if He hid their knowledge from us. God existed, has existed, always existed but so has good and evil just because they are. And God, being the good upright being He is, follows the tenants of good and evil. We could have a god that rebels against them, then He would not be a righteous God.
I think it comes down to, if God declared that might is right would that make it righteous or would it contract good and evil? Not hurting others is good. Hurting others is evil. I do not believe if God said that it was right to hurt others that it would make it good.
Did God make good and evil or they simply a product of existence? I would say that good and evil exist even if God didn't say they were good and evil, if He hid their knowledge from us. God existed, has existed, always existed but so has good and evil just because they are. And God, being the good upright being He is, follows the tenants of good and evil. We could have a god that rebels against them, then He would not be a righteous God.
I think it comes down to, if God declared that might is right would that make it righteous or would it contract good and evil? Not hurting others is good. Hurting others is evil. I do not believe if God said that it was right to hurt others that it would make it good.
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