Rejected Christ after Salvation?

Have you ever lost your Salvation?

  • yes

  • no


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

endure

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2002
656
22
42
georgia, sautee.
Visit site
✟16,062.00
Faith
Christian
i dont agree with that,
but even if it is true it still doesnt change that in Christs death he died for all peoples, and all men everywhere have the grace to be saved.

please, lets not start a debate on how much God knows. no i dont think he knows completely who will be saved and who wont, but that doesnt matter.

 
 
Upvote 0

Reformationist

Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
Mar 7, 2002
14,273
465
51
✟37,095.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Today at 12:52 PM endure said this in Post #82

no i dont think he knows completely who will be saved and who wont, but that doesnt matter.

You don't think it matters that you don't think God knows who will be saved and who won't???!!!!  :eek:
 
Upvote 0

endure

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2002
656
22
42
georgia, sautee.
Visit site
✟16,062.00
Faith
Christian
reformationist,
no i dont think it matters to this conversation whether or not he does, that is outside the context of whats being debated.

ephod,
sorry, i disagree that he knows all that.
ive never read any kind of scripture that proves he does know, many scriptures say he knows all, but i also find many scriptures where it plainly says there are things he didnt know and doesnt know and tells about things that he learned.
i am quite comfortable in what seems to be the corner.
this tends to happen to me everytime i open my mouth on what i believe. but if i did not have plenty of proof to give, id not open my mouth.

i could fully explain it you, but not here in this thread.
i dont think it spots God and does away with his magesty to say he doesnt know all, no more than to say not everyone he tried to save will be saved, does it mean my God is weak and broke down? by no means.
one thing that i hate to see becuase its hard to change, is someones opinion of what God needs to be. rather than looking at scripture to see what he really is.
its the same as the athiest who says that since God doesnt save everyone, hes either unloving or not very powerful at all.
 
Upvote 0

jseek21

Radical Biblicalist
Jan 30, 2003
205
1
39
Arizona
Visit site
✟340.00
Faith
Non-Denom
I hear a song coming on...

Instead of "Our God is an awesome God!"
Our God is an ignorant God.

When He looks upon the earth
He sits and wonders why
(Our God is an ignorant God)
There's nothing in His head
And no power in His might
(Our God is an ignorant God)
And the Lord didn't know why
He kicked 'em out of Eden
He didn't know the reason
That He shed His blood
His return is very close
But He's not even sure when
Our God is an ignorant God

Our God is an ignorant God,
He reigns with little know-ledge,
Not knowing what's gonna happen,
Our God is an ignorant God.

When we get in a mess
He cannot fix it
(Our God is an ignorant God)
He sits upon his cloud
and plays chess
(Our God is an ignorant God)

Our God is an ignorant God,
He reigns with little know-ledge,
Not knowing what's gonna happen,
Our God is an ignorant God.


Ok enough sarcasm...
I do not have time to write out a complete disertation here on the subject. However I would suggest checking out www.antithesis.com and www.monergism.com for more information and read the articles on the subject at both. I am in the middle of a book project, so I should be writing that, not here :) even if it is tempting. But there are numerous books on the subject. Those two websites are a good place to start.

In Christ,
Dr. Jonathan Morgan
 
Upvote 0

jseek21

Radical Biblicalist
Jan 30, 2003
205
1
39
Arizona
Visit site
✟340.00
Faith
Non-Denom
what does God know?
a classic study
arthur pink

God is omniscient. He knows everything:

everything possible,
everything actual;
all events and all creatures,
of the past, the present,
and the future.

He is perfectly acquainted with every detail in the life of every being in heaven, in earth, and in hell.

He knows what is in the darkness
| Daniel 2:22 |

Nothing escapes His notice, nothing can be hidden from Him, nothing is forgotten by Him. Well may we say with the Psalmist,

Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
too lofty for me to obtain.
| Psalm 139:6 |

His knowledge is perfect. He never errs, never changes, never overlooks anything.

Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened before the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.
| Heb. 4:13 |

Yes, such is the God with whom we have to do!


O LORD,
you have searched me and you know me.
You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.
You discern my going out
and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways.
Before a word is on my tongue
you know it completely, O LORD.
| Psalm 139:1-4 |

What a wondrous Being is the God of Scripture! Each of His glorious attributes should render Him honorable in our esteem. The apprehension of His omniscience ought to bow us in adoration before Him. Yet how little do we meditate upon this Divine perfection! Is it because the very thought of it fills us with uneasiness?

The Knowledge of God

disc_pink.jpg
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

endure

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2002
656
22
42
georgia, sautee.
Visit site
✟16,062.00
Faith
Christian
why are both of you intent on starting a debate i did not want to start? ive already been there and done that and got tired of it.

if you want to discuss this ill start another thread or you can, ive already been confronted with the scriptures youve given and they dont mean that.

ill just ask this for you to answer now,
in the first few chapters of genesis the bible says God brings the animals to adam to see what he would call them.
what does this mean? or he brought adam to the animals, anyway...

and dont say WELL HES OMNISCIENT.
tell me what it means.
it means what it says.
it means he wanted to know what adam was going to call the animals, what does this mean?
it means some of you better re-evaluate your view of God and what you demand him to be.
 
Upvote 0

MizDoulos

<font color=6c2dc7><b>Justified by grace through f
Jan 1, 2002
15,098
4
The "Left Coast" of the USA
Visit site
✟22,176.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Today at 12:11 PM jseek21 said this in Post #90 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=701131#post701131)

what does God know?
a classic study
arthur pink

God is omniscient. He knows everything:

everything possible,
everything actual;
all events and all creatures,
of the past, the present,
and the future.

He is perfectly acquainted with every detail in the life of every being in heaven, in earth, and in hell.

He knows what is in the darkness
| Daniel 2:22 |

Nothing escapes His notice, nothing can be hidden from Him, nothing is forgotten by Him. Well may we say with the Psalmist,

Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
too lofty for me to obtain.
| Psalm 139:6 |

His knowledge is perfect. He never errs, never changes, never overlooks anything.

Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened before the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.
| Heb. 4:13 |

Yes, such is the God with whom we have to do!


O LORD,
you have searched me and you know me.
You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.
You discern my going out
and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways.
Before a word is on my tongue
you know it completely, O LORD.
| Psalm 139:1-4 |

What a wondrous Being is the God of Scripture! Each of His glorious attributes should render Him honorable in our esteem. The apprehension of His omniscience ought to bow us in adoration before Him. Yet how little do we meditate upon this Divine perfection! Is it because the very thought of it fills us with uneasiness?

The Knowledge of God

disc_pink.jpg


I love to read Arthur Pink! He's one of my favorite authors. "Attributes of God" is an excellent book.

Great pic of his book, jseek!
 
Upvote 0

jseek21

Radical Biblicalist
Jan 30, 2003
205
1
39
Arizona
Visit site
✟340.00
Faith
Non-Denom
God’s knowledge

How solemn is this fact:
nothing can be concealed from God!

For I know the things that come
into your mind, every one of them.
| Ezek. 11:5 |

Though He be invisible to us, we are not so to Him. Neither the darkness of night, the closest curtains, nor the deepest dungeon can hide any sinner from the eyes of Omniscience. The trees of the garden were not able to conceal our first parents. No human eye beheld Cain murder his brother, but his Maker witnessed his crime. Sarah might laugh derisively in the seclusion of her tent, yet was it heard by Jehovah. Achan stole a wedge of gold and carefully hid it in the earth, but God brought it to light. David was at much pains to cover up his wickedness, but ere long the allseeing God sent one of His servants to say to him, Thou art the man! And to writer and reader is also said,

Be sure your sin will find you out.
| Num. 32:23 |

Men would strip Deity of His omniscience if they could — what a proof that the carnal mind is enmity against God | Rom. 8:7 |. The wicked do as naturally hate this Divine perfection as much as they are naturally compelled to acknowledge it.

They wish there might be
no Witness of their sins,
no Searcher of their hearts,
no judge of their deeds.

They seek to banish such a God from their thoughts:

they do not realize that I
remember all their evil deeds.
| Hosea 7:2 |

How solemn is Psalm 90:8! Good reason has every Christ-rejecter for trembling before it:

You have set our iniquities before you,
our secret sins in the light of your presence.

But to the believer, the fact of God's omniscience is a truth fraught with much comfort. In times of perplexity he says with job,

But he knows the way that I take . . . .
| 23: 10 |

It may be profoundly mysterious to me, quite incomprehensible to my friends, but He knows! In times of weariness and weakness believers assure themselves,

He knows our frame;
He remembers that we are dust.
| Psa. 103:14 |

In times of doubt and suspicion they appeal to this very attribute, saying,

Search me, O God, and know my heart:
try me, and know my thoughts:
and see if there be any wicked way in me,
and lead me in the way everlasting.
| Psa. 139:23, 24 |

In time of sad failure, when our actions have belied our hearts, when our deeds have repudiated our devotion, and the searching question comes to us, Do you love Me?, we say, as Peter did,

Lord, You know all things;
You know that I love You.
| John 21:17 |

Here is encouragement to prayer. There is no cause for fearing that the petitions of the righteous will not be heard, or that their sighs and tears shall escape the notice of God, since He knows the thoughts and intents of the heart. There is no danger of the individual saint being overlooked amidst the multitude of supplicants who daily and hourly present their various petitions, for an infinite Mind is as capable of paying the same attention to millions as if only one individual were seeking its attention. So too the lack of appropriate language, the inability to give expression to the deepest longing of the soul, will not jeopardize our prayers, for

It shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
| Isa. 65:24 |

Great is our Lord, and of great power:
His understanding is infinite.
| Psalm 147:5 |

God not only knows whatsoever has happened in the past in every part of His vast domains, and He is not only thoroughly acquainted with everything that is now transpiring throughout the entire universe, but He is also perfectly cognizant of every event, from the least to the greatest, that ever will happen in the ages to come. God's knowledge of the future is as complete as is His knowledge of the past and the present, and that, because the future depends entirely upon Himself. Were it in anywise possible for something to occur apart from either the direct agency or permission of God, then that something would be independent of Him, and He would at once cease to be Supreme.

Now the Divine knowledge of the future is not a mere abstraction, but something which is inseparably connected with and accompanied by His purpose. God has Himself designed whatsoever shall yet be, and what He has designed must be effectuated. As His most sure Word affirms,

He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his hand or say to him: What have you done?
| Dan. 4:35 |

And again,

Many are the plans in a man’s heart,
but it is the LORD’s purpose that prevails.
| Prov. 19:21 |

The wisdom and power of God being alike infinite, the accomplishment of whatever He hath purposed is absolutely guaranteed. It is no more possible for the Divine counsels to fail in their execution than it would be for the thrice holy God to lie.


Nothing relating to the future is in anyway uncertain so far as the actualization of God's counsels are concerned. None of His decrees are left contingent either on creatures or secondary causes. There is no future event which is only a mere possibility, that is, something which may or may not come to pass:

Known unto God are all His works
from the beginning.
| Acts 15:18 |

Whatever God has decreed is inexorably certain, for He is without variableness, or shadow of turning | James 1: 17 |. Therefore we are told at the very beginning of that book, which unveils to us so much of the future, of Things which must shortly come to pass | Rev. 1: 1 |.

The perfect knowledge of God is
exemplified and illustrated
in every prophecy recorded in His Word.

In the Old Testament are to be found scores of predictions concerning the history of Israel, which were fulfilled to their minutest detail, centuries after they were made. In them too are scores more foretelling the earthly career of Christ, and they too were accomplished literally and perfectly. Such prophecies could only have been given by One who knew the end from the beginning, and whose knowledge rested upon the unconditional certainty of the accomplishment of everything foretold. In like manner, both Old and New Testament contain many other announcements yet future, and they too must be fulfilled | Luke 24:44 |, must because foretold by Him who decreed them.

It should, however, be pointed out that neither God's knowledge nor His cognition of the future, considered simply in themselves, are causative. Nothing has ever come to pass, or ever will, merely because God knew it. The cause of all things is the will of God. The man who really believes the Scriptures knows beforehand that the seasons will continue to follow each other with unfailing regularity to the end of earth's history | Gen. 8:22 |, yet his knowledge is not the cause of their succession. So God's knowledge does not arise from things because they are or will be, but because He has ordained them to be. God knew and foretold the crucifixion of His Son many hundreds of years before He became incarnate, and this, because in the Divine purpose, He was a Lamb slain from the foundation of the world: hence we read of His being

. . . .delivered by the determinate counsel
and foreknowledge of God . . . .
| Acts 2:23 |


A word or two by way of application. The infinite knowledge of God should fill us with amazement. How far exalted above the wisest man is the Lord! None of us knows what a day may bring forth, but all futurity is open to His omniscient gaze. The infinite knowledge of God ought to fill us with holy awe. Nothing we do, say, or even think, escapes the cognizance of Him with whom we have to do:

The eyes of the Lord are in every place,
beholding the evil and the good.
| Prov. 15:3 |

What a curb this would be unto us, did we but meditate upon it more frequently! Instead of acting recklessly, we should say with Hagar,

You, God see me.
| Gen. 16:13 |

The apprehension of God's infinite knowledge should fill the Christian with adoration. The whole of my life stood open to His view from the beginning. He foresaw my every fall, my every sin, my every backsliding; yet, nevertheless, fixed His heart upon me. Oh, how the realization of this should bow me in wonder and worship before Him!
 
Upvote 0

endure

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2002
656
22
42
georgia, sautee.
Visit site
✟16,062.00
Faith
Christian
why do people not answer questions,but only give keep talking?


ok,
just to put it simply,
God knowing your thoughts does not mean he knows all things.
just becuase he saw cain, does not mean he sees all.
just becuase he saw achon, does not mean he sees all.
just becuase he saw david, does not mean he sees all.
just becuase sin will find you out, does not mean God knows all.
just because he remembers all i ever did, does not mean he knows all. ( actually it says he forgets our sins when forgiven, so he doesnt know of those)
just becuase he knew when those people sinned and he exposed their iniquities, does not mean he sees or knows all.
just becuase he knows the way you take, doesnt mean he knows all.
just becuase he knows how were were made and that we are dust, doesnt mean he knows all.
just becuase God can search you and know you, doesnt mean he knows all.
just becuase peter meant what he did about Jesus knowing all things, doesnt mean he knows all things infinitly, becuase Jesus doesnt know the day of the rapture.
Just becuase God has great wisdom and forsight and can predict events, doesnt mean he knows all.
and just becuase he can control an even to happen, doesnt mean he knows all.
just becuase he understands all things, doesnt mean he knows all.
Just becuase God can know all a man ever did, doesnt mean he knows all.
just becuase God fortold events, and they took place, doesnt mean he knows all.

yes God knows many many things, and that WOWS me...
but i do not agree he knows ALL things, such as all future actions of all free will beings.

i find many scriptures that clearly show of God learning things, not knowing certain things were going to happen,&nbsp;etc.

1.God learns many things, concerning the free will actions of men.

gen 6.5-7
and God SAW that the wickedness of man was great...
and it repented the lord that he had made man on the earth...
"for it repenteth me that i have made them..."

God did not know man was going to come to such ends, and he regretted making man on the earth. he aparently doesnt know all things.

gen 11.5-7
and the lord came down to see the city...

God had to come and look at the city that was being built.
aparently he doesnt know all things.

gen 18.21
"i will go down now and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it..."

God had to come to the earth to see whether or not the cry of it was true. aparantly he doesnt know all.

gen 22.12
(God said)
"...for now i know that thou fearest God..."

God had to learn whether or not abraham really feared him.

2 chro 16.9
for the eyes of the lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong...

God has to search the earth. so he doesnt know all before hand.

zech 4.10
...the eyes of the lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth.

again, God has to look for things.

job 12.22
(speaking of God)
he DISCOVERETH the deep things...

even God learns and finds things. so he doesnt know all things before hand.

psalm 7.9
...for the righteousness of God TRIETH the hearts and the reins.

Yes God does know all the ways and inner nature of man, but it is becuase he tries them and finds them out.

psalm 44.21
shall not God search this out?

Even God searches.

139.1
oh God though has SEARCHED me...

the following scriptures tell of all the great things he knows, but he doesnt know these things becuase he knows all beforehand, he searches these things out.

proverbs 24.12
...he that PONDERETH the soul...

Even God has to ponder things.

jer 17.10
I THE LORD "SEARCH" THE HEART...

God himself professes to searching things.
aparently he doesnt have any lack of need to do this by some infinite knowledge people say he has.

rom 8.27
he that searcheth the hearts...

again, he searches things.

1 thess 2.4
...God, which TRIETH our hearts.

God tests things, becuase he needs to know.

2. God sends messengers throughout the earth who report to him of all they find in the earth that goes on.

dan 10.12-21
(micheal said)
...for i have come for thy words...

job 1.6; 2.1
and there came a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the lord...

angels are messengers for God and tell him of what they have seen in the earth.

3. NOT ALL THINGS COME INTO THE LORDS MIND.

jer 19.5
they have built also the high places....neither came it into my mind.

Some things happen, that didnt come into Gods mind.

jer 32.35
and they have built the high places of baal... neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination...

God did not know they were going to do this.

this is a good start, ill post more in just a second...

but so far, it is clear that even know the bible says he "knows all" and knows many many things, there are things he does not know.

when the bible refers to Gods omniscience it is refering to a certain realm of context, or to a certain realm of Gods actions.
not of all things exist.
it would be foolish for a God who knows all things, and there is nothing he doesnt know, to ever regret, to ever need to come and see anything, to ever need to search anything, or for anything to ever need to come into his mind, or for anything to have not came into his mind.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

settergren

In Christ Alone
Feb 2, 2003
49
0
43
San Diego
Visit site
✟7,659.00
Faith
Christian
Endure,

So God sent His son to die on the cross, but He never really knew for sure that the purpose for which He was sent would even be acomplished?

I fear God way to much to limit his knowledge. Sorry, but I can't accept your view of God.

You say God does know a lot of things, but you also say that he can't discern what "free will" men will do. If this is the case then what is it that God does know about the future if it can't be based on what man does? Are you telling me that if man decided to nuke the earth till it was devoid of life, God would be running around in Heaven going "Oh no! Those pesky humans and their free will!!! What am I going to do????? Oh well, I guess I have to start over."

You say it would be foolish for God to know everything! Let me get this right. You are saying that God would be a fool for knowing everything? Gee, I thought if someone was omnipotent then they'd actually be smart not foolish. I guess I can't follow your logic.

You shouldn't try to define the character of God based on what seems *logical* to you. We can only believe God to be what he is, that is GOD! How can the GOD who holds everything in existence together be limited by that existence.

Your view of God is a very small view indeed and is not the view of God expressed in His written word.

&nbsp;

God bless
 
Upvote 0

endure

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2002
656
22
42
georgia, sautee.
Visit site
✟16,062.00
Faith
Christian
ok, i enjoy logic, but logic and reasoning come second, to the word of God, you show me scripture that proves me wrong, and then i will agree with you.
i will never take my reasoning and use it to interpret scripture.
God is what we find in the book.
and if all you can do is give "WELL THEN THAT MEANS....! THAT CANT BE BECUASE....!" and not scripture to refute, then i will not listen to your replies.

no i did not say it would be foolish of God to know everything,&nbsp;i said it would be foolish to think he knew everything yet acts the way he does.

i said
"it would be foolish for a God who knows all things, and there is nothing he doesnt know, to ever regret, to ever need to come and see anything, to ever need to search anything, or for anything to ever need to come into his mind, or for anything to have not came into his mind."

also,
i did not make my veiw of God according to what i think is logical, i made my view of God according to what he said.
i posted those scriptures for you to read, so you know why i think the way i do, and that it isnt just my own view of logic.
i read what the bible simply says, and even though those are little tib bits of scripture, they still complete the puzzle and you cant ignore whats written on them.
i agree that he is God.
but the God i read of, goes places, searches for things, tries things, learns things, regrets doing things, has things that havent came into his mind.
i want you to show me any other theology this could be teaching. im sorry, i have no fear of nor am i ashamed of attacking your opinoin of God, im sorry, when i was taught to interpret scripture, you take it for what it says, how else would God write to us when he didnt want to hide anything from us?

how can you say your veiw of God is expressed in his word, whenever you do not give any word to prove that, and i have posted plenty of "word" that i really dont see any other way to interpret.

many dont dare believe many things, becuase they feel theyd be doing God wrong. but we must know that without the scripture we cannot know God, and its only in the scripture that we find the nature of God revealed. you cannot take any revelation, and let that dictate what scripture means, you read the simply written word, and let that give you revelation.
becuase unless the word reveals it to you, you really dont know&nbsp;much of anything&nbsp;about him anyway.
 
Upvote 0

jseek21

Radical Biblicalist
Jan 30, 2003
205
1
39
Arizona
Visit site
✟340.00
Faith
Non-Denom
"ok, i enjoy logic, but logic and reasoning come second, to the word of God, you show me scripture that proves me wrong, and then i will agree with you. "

I have. You still do not believe.

And even that shows the power of God, because...
"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

I will respond to your previous post as soon as I have more time.

-Dr. Jonathan Morgan
 
Upvote 0

endure

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2002
656
22
42
georgia, sautee.
Visit site
✟16,062.00
Faith
Christian
jseeks,
you did not show me any scripture that proves there is nothing God does not know.
and i thought i illustrated this clearly.

you did give me scripture, but not scripture that proves your point, you gave a lot of your own theories and reasonings, but that isnt enough for me.
i gave plenty of scripture that prove there are things God does not know.

those scriptures say he knows things, like whats in darkness, but they simply do not say he knows all, they just dont say it.

you tell me how he knows all things, yet some things have not came into his mind?

tell me, what does it mean, when something came not into his mind that it should happen?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

settergren

In Christ Alone
Feb 2, 2003
49
0
43
San Diego
Visit site
✟7,659.00
Faith
Christian
endure,

Go ahead and believe God doesn't know everything. There's no way I can change your mind. Even God can't change your mind becuase He doesn't know your mind since he doesn't know anything..... at least that's what you believe... =)

&nbsp;

As far as scripture goes, check out jseeks post...

Tell me this... how does God know what He does know and what is different from the things he does know and does not....???
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.