The Days of Noah and Lot

I think it is cute. But it did not tell people how to be saved. Maybe that was not the intent.

cool.

No it didn't.

Endtime Survivors said:

Hi all,

Here's another video, this one on the Days of Noah and Lot. It's 6 minute animated feature which explores Jesus' comments from Luke 17:26-30. I look forward to hearing what others think and some positive discussion about this issues.

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ES, I think this misses the whole point and takes Jesus' illustration out of context. It's not about what they were engaged in--that eating, drinking, marrying, giving in marriage, buying and selling are necessarily sins--but that the wicked were suddenly destroyed, as it will be when Jesus comes again. Incidentally, Genesis 6:5 says:

5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

The main point of the illustration isn't about pervasiveness of sin (which was true in Noah/Lot's circumstances), or sinfulness in every-day behaviors because people don't pay attention to God, it's about the sudden destruction of the wicked when Jesus returns.

You can see this is you read the account in Matthew 24.

Matthew 24:36-41
37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.

Endtime Survivors said:

The question is, why was the destruction "sudden"? Is that your experience of God; that he destroys people with no warning or chance for repentance?

Apparently, Noah was building the ark for more than a 100 years. And he lived for something like 900 years. In all that time, he didn't warn anyone or no one thought to ask him what he was doing building such a huge boat?

Or, consider our current situation. We've got close to 2000 years of advance warning about the various prophetic issues which will come up, and yet Jesus still described a situation where his coming would be like a thief. The "thief in the night" analogy isn't relevant because the thief rushes in faster than the homeowners can call 911. It is relevant because the home owners are not aware of the break-in.

He said that if the home owners knew when the thief would strike, then they would prepare for it and be ok. In the analogy, we are the home-owners and the break-in is end time. If we faithfully and diligently watch, then we are like the prepared home owners. But, if we become distracted by the cares of this world, then yeah, the thief will take us by surprise.

What did you think about the corroborating parable of the great feast, where God calls the people to come, but one-by-one they all make excuses because they are too busy with their every-day, ordinary business? One guy was farming. Another guy bought a piece of land. Another person had just been married. They all had excuses for why they didn't need to obey their lord.

Destruction will be sudden for anyone who is not aware of what's happening around them.

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No, God waits a long time until wickedness has reached its full measure. That's a reason He cited for why Israel would stay in Egypt for 400 years:

Genesis 15:16
16 In the fourth generation they will return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure.”

2 Peter 2:5 called Noah a preacher of righteousness. I think Noah probably told his neighbors what he was doing, or at least answered their questions when they asked what he was building. Whether or not he spent his time preaching with words, his works of integrity would have stood out among that wicked generation, not to mention the ark he built. God told him he'd be saving his own life, his wife's, his sons, and sons' wives (Genesis 6:18), and the animals, so he might have known from the start that no human would enter into the ark outside of his family members.

We don't know how long it took to build the ark, if it was 100 years or less. We know he had his children at around age 500 and the flood came when he was 600.

When the flood came, Noah's neighbors died, regardless of whether they heard Noah say the flood was coming or not. I bet many of his neighbors were aware of what Noah believed, but they just didn't think it was important to them enough to change.

By the sixth seal:

Revelation 6:15
15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

So, they will know about Him who sits on the throne, and about the Lamb, but most won't repent and worship Him. I think they will know this because they have been receiving testimony of the Christians who the world has been killing. And it says men's hearts will be failing them for fear of the things that are coming on the earth (Luke 21:25-26). Yet most will raise their fist to God in contempt (see Psalms 2).

I believe Jesus coming as thief means that all who are not following Him or are not watching their life and doctrine (abiding in Jesus and continuing to believe) will be surprised by a bad outcome, and it will not go well with them (e.g., being killed, including the second death). If we are staying in the faith, forsaking sin, remaining obedient to share our faith, loving our enemies, forgiving those who sin against us, etc., then we are watching and we won't be caught off guard. But if we become lazy or undulge in sin or stop believing sound doctrine, He could say He doesn't know us.

The parable of the wedding feast where people made excuses, I think is mostly about salvation being offered to Jews first and then to the Gentiles because the Jews mostly rejected it. But their rejection isn't total and their blindness isn't permanent.

Endtime Survivors said:

Hi all,

Here's another video, this one on the Days of Noah and Lot. It's 6 minute animated feature which explores Jesus' comments from Luke 17:26-30. I look forward to hearing what others think and some positive discussion about this issues.

Click to expand...

My opinion on the video is that it makes a valid point that too many people allow the everyday cares of life come between them and a true relationship with Christ. That said, I believe it ignores other passages of scripture which shed light on this passage.

Jude 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

This passage is clear there was more to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha than just everyday activities.

Genesis 18:20 And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;

This sounds a little more serious than just being caught up in the affairs of life. If it were just those everyday things why did God just single out these two cities?

Genesis 19 describes some of the activities Jude wrote about.

I believe the passage in Luke 17:26-30 is more focused on the fact that Jesus’s coming will be sudden and without warning to those who are asleep and unprepared, 1 Thessalonians 5:2-8.

Eating ,drinking and marring are God ordain activities that is unless your drinking lead to drunkenness. Those activities have never ceased to happen.

When you consider the events described in the book of Revelation where is there a time in that scenario where all is normal and life goes on normally just before the return of Christ. I do not see a time such as that. Your very screen name implies we have abnormal times ahead of us.

Your depiction of the days of Lot IMHO does not accurately describe what we find in scripture, especially the events of Gen. 6 &19 and Jude.

I believe the parable used in the video also makes the valid point about people allowing the cares of life to hinder there service to God (Luke 8:14), but in no way is the totality of the days of Noah.

You make casual mention of “inappropriate behavior between humans and angelic beings” and “genetic manipulation”

The fact is, that many chose to ignore what Genesis 6 and Jude tell us is a description of such a scenario.

I believe the video has a truth but avoids all of the truth. It should be obvious there was much more going on in the days of Noah and Lot than just normal everyday activities, that have been the case for most of recorded time. Just my opinion, but I also believe a valid scriptural case can be made to support it as well.

Endtime Survivors said:

I'm sure if I were to ask, "Do you think it would be sinful for someone to put anything, including marriage, buy/selling, planting, building, or hobbies before God" you would probably answer in the affirmative.

So the real question is, what does it mean to put these things before God? Is there ever any situation in which someone could want to marry someone against God's will? Is there ever a situation in which someone could want to build, plant, shop, eat or drink against (or contrary) to God's will? If so, how do we know when we're doing these things contrary to God's will and how to we speak to those brothers and sisters around us whom we believe are guilty of putting these things before God?

And, what happens when it becomes normal to put these things before God? For example, a person who goes to work every day to feed his family etc, except God wants him to be somewhere else doing a different job. How do we convince that person that "I just want to feed my family" is not a good enough excuse to ignore God?

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People marry outside of God's will all the time when they marry a non-believer or they marry someone who isn't a suitable spiritual match (for example, a lukewarm Christian).

I'm sure, "I just want to feed my family," is going to be used by many to justify taking the mark of the beast. I think God considers a Christian doing so to be committing blasphemy of the Holy Spirit because of what it says in Revelation 14:9-13.

Hebrews 12:16-17
16 that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal.
17 For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears.

But what I am saying is the buying and selling and marrying and so forth isn't the point of that illustration about "as in the days of Noah/Lot." The point is that the wicked (perhaps including the hypocrites, apostates and the willfully fruitless) will be suddenly killed when Jesus returns, as they were in the days of Noah when the flood came upon them the days of Lot when the Lord hurled down brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah.

For example, these verses about the time just prior to Jesus' return don't depict "life goes on as usual," but rather, death and fear abounding. I am sure many will try to put their focus on their temporal needs and relationships to avoid repenting.

Luke 21:25-26
25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

Matthew 24:21-22
21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

(That is, unless those days were shortened, no flesh would survive.)

God Will Destroy the Earth




When The Fire Comes Down From Heaven

Way back in the days of Noah
Water covered all this land
Then the great rainbow of promise
Started us on life again

And the Good Book tells of fire
That will fill the earth some day
Then the sinful will be screamin'
As this earth shall pass away

When the fire
Comes down from Heaven
This old world
Will melt away
Millions then
Will cry for mercy
But it will be
Too late to pray

Oh, this world is at a tremble
And it's rockin' to and fro
You can read it in the papers
Hear it on the radio

In the movies, they are showin'
Towns and cities, how they blaze
But there's hotter fire a comin'
If we follow sin's highway

When the fire
Comes down from Heaven
This old world
Will melt away
Millions then
Will cry for mercy
But it will be
Too late to pray

Texas City, Texas City
Oh, how awful was her fate
First she burned and then exploded
Now the story, we'll relate

Of the Winecoff in Atlanta
How she burned right to the ground
Of the great fire in Chicago
And the dead lay all around

But When the fire
Comes down from Heaven
This old world
Will melt away
Millions then
Will cry for mercy
But it will be
Too late to pray

Recorded by Hank Williams
written by Milton Estes, John W. Fowler, Tommy Harrell, Paul M. Kinsey

Endtime Survivors said:

Ok good, so there is a precedent for these normal, everyday activities to come between us and God. And yet it is because these activities are so plausible, so normal, so common and ordinary that they receive the least introspection or questioning. Perhaps that is what Jesus was commenting on when he said the people of Noah and Lot's day were doing all these things when they were destroyed. They had stopped questioning whether they should be buying land, or starting businesses or getting married to this or that person.



And yet Jesus specifically mentioned these things in connection with their destruction. People who were too busy with the cares of this world to hear, see, or think about the warning signs. We shouldn't be like those people, caught up in all the distractions of normal, every-day life or we, too, will miss the warnings signs and be "suddenly" destroyed.



You acknowledged, in a previous post, that God doesn't just suddenly destroy people without giving them at least some opportunity to change/repent. He gives them warnings etc. But that's something I had already said anyway. I asked the question, "WHY did these people not hear/see/understand the warnings?" Jesus says the destruction was swift (i.e. sudden) and yet they did have warning. Is it a contradiction?

Nope. The answer is that the "suddenness" of the destruction relates to their perspective. From their perspective the destruction was sudden because they had ignored the warnings and not because God didn't give warning. What caused them to ignore the warnings? What were they doing that they didn't see or hear or understand?

Jesus' explanation was that they were too busy with the cares of life to care about what God wanted, just like in the parable where the people are called to the feast but one by one they refuse to go because they are too busy with the cares of this world. Just like the plants which are choked by the cares and pleasures of this life. Just like the rich fool who built bigger barns. Just like the rich man who went to hell while the poor man was rewarded.



I think this is exactly the point of Jesus referencing everyday, normal activities. You talk about hypocrites, apstates and the "willfully fruitless" as though they are bad guys very different from us normal human beings, but are they really? Don't we all struggle with hypocrisy to some degree? Don't we all show apostasy or willful fruitlessness anytime we sin? Check out Luke 13:1-9 where Jesus specifically mentions this concept of thinking we're different from those other bad guys.

We're all bad guys, but we'll never even recognize that while hiding behind the normal, everyday cares of life, as though they are too simple and common to be of any legitimate problem for us. It is "apostasy" and "fruitlessness" and "hypocrisy" that we really need to be worried about, right? Not the boring, common, necessary cares of this world, right?

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The video wasn't talking about all these other parables and examples; it was talking about the Noah and Lot examples being like the return of Christ. The video kind of sidelined the main point of the illustration (wicked people dying suddenly when Christ comes back) and made it seem like Jesus had a different main point.

The hypocrites, apostates, and willfully disobedient is how I would describe the examples and parables that follow in Matthew 24-25 - the two servants, the ten virgins, and the talents. They started out following Jesus--or they thought they were--but they indulged themselves in sin; they couldn't endure (I think because they embraced false doctrine); or they refused to bear fruit for the kingdom of God. There's a contrast in each one of these with faithful servants who do the will of the Lord Jesus Christ until He comes. We can't be complacent. We need to endure in faith and obedience to Jesus until the end. There's a warning in Revelation given at the sixth bowl, when the foreign armies are advancing across the Euphrates and assembling at Armageddon. This is not an excuse for the disciples of Israel to lapse into sin or unbelief. They have to endure in their faith and in the righteousness that comes from God. And so do we, as long as we live.

Revelation 15:14-16
14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”
16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.

The video was a lot of work to create, I can tell. Maybe next time you and your friends make a video, if you want feedback, you could ask before you guys do the visual work.

Endtime Survivors said:

Hi Lk. Yeah it was a lot of work. It's nice that you noticed. ^.^ And, although we appreciate feedback and Godly counsel, we believe the video is an accurate reflection of the spirit behind the teaching. For example, you say...



And yet, earlier you quoted this to me; Romans 11:16-22. We Christians should not become high-minded and proud, because we too can be cut off just like the Jews. The lessons behind Jesus' teachings, the essence of them are not for any particular kind of people. They are true for the Jews just as much as they are true for us. When God calls, we should not think anything is more important; not family, not jobs, not friends, not material goods; nothing. That is the lesson behind the parable.

The disciples of Jesus were told to go and preach these teachings in all the world, including the teaching to go and preach in all the world, so that generation after generation would be obligated to continue passing on the message. That means there is no teaching of Jesus specifically for the Jews while being irrelevant for his followers, because Jesus did not come for the Jews. He offered them what he was offering to anyone else; discipleship.

Otherwise, you must give us a list of which teachings of Jesus were only for the Jews, which teachings were only for Christians, and which teachings were for both, and then explain why you've separated them into those three categories. If you can't provide this list and a reason for how you arrived at your conclusions, then your conclusions come across as biased according to whichever interpretation will suit, "the Jews are still special" theory.

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I agree that we shouldn't be consumed with the affairs of the world, which is passing away. And yes, it applies to anyone, Jew or Gentile, who perhap hears the gospel (or sees the witness of God through creation) but is too enamored with the things of this world to seek God and care about His eternal kingdom. If a person cannot be awakened from his apathy towards God, the Lord will pursue others (even from the least of these in the world's economy) who will respond until there's no one left who will repent and be saved. Then He will come.

But I maintain that is not the main point of the example of Noah and Lot. And this is where we disagree, it sounds. I see the main point being the sudden destruction on the wicked that will take place when Jesus returns.

Matthew 24:37
37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.

This is the reason why the vultures will gather... to consume their flesh, one of the ways Jesus identifies His true return as compared with the false returns (Matthew 24:28; see also Revelation 19:17-18 and Revelation 19:21). (And we are to keep close watch over our life and doctrine, lest we be fall away and be counted among them.)

Obviously the people of Noah's day had a problem of caring too much for worldly pleasures and not caring to seek God. Had more thought to seek Him, they wouldn't have been destroyed in the manner they were, or maybe the judgment would have been delayed. God said He wouldn't destroy Sodom if ten righteous people were found there. Only 3 were ultimately rescued from Sodom, and 8 from the earth in Noah's day. This is still a valid concern, but I disagree that it's the main point.