FireDragon76

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The American disability-right groups, Not Dead Yet opposes euthanasia. I would too for similar reasons. People will cheapen the lives of the disabled and see them as a burden. It's already happened in the Netherlands.
 
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Constantine the Sinner

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The American disability-right groups, Not Dead Yet opposes euthanasia. I would too for similar reasons. People will cheapen the lives of the disabled and see them as a burden. It's already happened in the Netherlands.
Don't you think it's a bit inconsistent to say a mother should be able to kill her unborn, but not herself?
 
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FireDragon76

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Don't you think it's a bit inconsistent to say a mother should be able to kill her unborn, but not herself?

Maybe. But I don't take a rationalistic approach to these things.

I never said abortion was "OK", BTW. I think I made it pretty clear it's a sin.
 
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HannahT

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The American disability-right groups, Not Dead Yet opposes euthanasia. I would too for similar reasons. People will cheapen the lives of the disabled and see them as a burden. It's already happened in the Netherlands.

They have euthanized the disabled just for being disabled? In the Netherlands?
 
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HannahT

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I'm actually concerned how euthanasia has widened in countries such as the Netherlands to include "incurably" mentally ill people suffering from depression. I think it is due to a society that has rejected Christianity.

They euthanize depressed people in the Netherlands?
 
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HannahT

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Death should not be feared by a Christian

I know Christ feared his death.

My mother had alzheimer's, and while she was healthy she was a Christian. In her death stage there was a lot of suffering, and screaming. She wasn't afraid of death, but of pain. I was afraid of watching her in pain, suffering and screaming.

Death at that point was a blessing. I don't wish anyone to go through the 14 days - and the struggles there after - over dealing with that. Her stomach and kidneys shut down, and so we went without food or water as well for 14 long days. Her organs could no longer process it. Wanting to end the suffering to me isn't fear of death. It's wanting death so they can finally be at peace with God.
 
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FireDragon76

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They have euthanized the disabled just for being disabled? In the Netherlands?

I am not fully an expert, but it seems the case, at least in individuals that can give their consent and that face a "serious disability". I just have read news stories of depressed people seeking physician assisted suicide in the Netherlands, and this is becoming more and more common there.

Some of the initial supporters of Euthanasia in the Netherlands are questioning the wisdom of their choices. It seems there is a perception that palliative care and hospice have declined. It also sounds like there are political groups in the Netherlands hostile to hospice care and see it as at-odds with their seemingly "pro-death" stance.

I know Christ feared his death.

My mother had alzheimer's, and while she was healthy she was a Christian.

Why do you think your mom ceased to be Christian just because she had Alzheimer's?
 
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MoonlessNight

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They have euthanized the disabled just for being disabled? In the Netherlands?
They euthanize depressed people in the Netherlands?

What is required in the Netherlands for Euthanasia is that the person is experiencing unbearable pain which cannot be treated. But all these terms have been interpreted in extremely broad ways. For example, mental discomfort has been interpreted as a type of pain which can justify Euthanasia. "Unbearable" is something that ultimately is decided by the patient.

So if, for example, someone who lost his legs in an accident but otherwise recovered, he could say that he experienced unbearable trauma in having to accept that he would never have legs again. If prosthetics were not viable or were unacceptable to him, there really isn't a treatment for this problem. He really isn't going to get his legs back. So it would be something that could, under Dutch law, be grounds for Euthanasia (assuming that the other procedural requirements were followed).
 
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FireDragon76

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Oregon has already offered assisted suicide as an alternative to costly cancer treatments:

In 2008, Oregon Medicaid officials sent a letter to Barbara Wagner and Randy Stroup after the couple sought treatment for her lung cancer and his prostate cancer. The state denied their (costly) treatment, but on a list of alternative options, it offered to pay for assisted suicide. The couple went public and the state changed its mind, but Smith contends that the more we embrace euthanasia, the more government officials will back away from paying to treat its weakest members.

http://www.newsweek.com/2015/02/20/choosing-die-netherlands-euthanasia-debate-306223.html
 
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HannahT

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I am not fully an expert, but it seems the case, at least in individuals that can give their consent and that face a "serious disability". I just have read news stories of depressed people seeking physician assisted suicide in the Netherlands, and this is becoming more and more common there.

Some of the initial supporters of Euthanasia in the Netherlands are questioning the wisdom of their choices. It seems there is a perception that palliative care and hospice have declined. It also sounds like there are political groups in the Netherlands hostile to hospice care and see it as at-odds with their seemingly "pro-death" stance.

One thing I noticed in life is when something is new and 'allowed' the spectrum always seems to go to the extreme, and then turn around and go in the extreme the other direction...before a discerning middle ground is reached. I don't know WHY that is, but it does seem to be a pattern.

Why do you think your mom ceased to be Christian just because she had Alzheimer's?

I was more answering in the perspective of the statement. She died a Christian even though I doubt she could tell you that she was, or whom God was at that point. The statement was Christian's don't fear death. Was there anxiety on the prospect of her death via Alzheimer's? Fear even? I would say YES! It's crazy to say people wouldn't be scared of death. She knew what was coming.

I find it odd that people would be hostile to Hospice, but when you have tunnel vision like many of the political groups like you spoke of? They are incapable of viewing things from another perspective. My brother's wife's mother died peacefully in Hospice, and she died as she wanted. She slowly drifted away in the end, and there was no agony part. She wanted it that way.

I had to keep mother's mouth moist, and if one small drop of water fell down her throat? She wasn't capable of shallowing anymore, and she would scream. Her medicine she had to absorb in her cheek, and if it dropped down her throat? Same thing. She had to be moved, so bed sores didn't happen - scream again.

After 14 days, and my birthday coming soon? I told the nurse I wanted them to give a good dose of pain killer...and help her drift away. The pain killer would help her system relax, and allow her slip away. They left medicine in her room, and my brother told me I missed the point of WHY they did that. It's true, it went right over my head. They left it so my brother and I could adminstrister it. I thought I would start with the regular dose, and we would pray on it. I didn't want her to die on my birthday, and after being with her for 14 days straight? I was toast, and I wasn't sure how much longer I could take it without completely falling apart. I spoke to my mother, and told her I was going to give her medicine...and she died in my hands. I never had to give that last dose. She didn't die on my birthday, but I doubt I will ever forget her screams.

14 days of agony is too long. It's needless suffering. I have to wonder if she heard me tell the nurse I didn't want her to die on my birthday...and she finally let go. lol the drugs part was out of ear shot!

After enduring something that like? Your views change. Your examples to me are extreme - and I can say they don't fulfill my definition of allowing euthanasia. Mother's death bed is the only time I would consider it even for her. It wasn't death that we feared, but her pain. Her agony. Mother was so far gone with Alzheimer's I doubt she had the capacity to fear it. She is the one example of a True Christian that didn't fear death. Sadly, she didn't understand anything at that point either. So, I'm not sure she was able to fear it.
 
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Cuddles333

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Is anyone else concerned that the closer this practice comes to being a major thing, the closer we get to a world where old people might be pressured by their children or other factions to just go through with it? To save medical costs and to move inheritance more quickly? Or that it might start being pushed as a way of dealing with age itself?

This concept will irresistibly flow to Eugenics. It was started in the U. S. A. By the German doctor Margret Sanger in the 1920s. The idea was to remove liability of the most fittest of those that would be drag on society's progress. The sickly, retarded, non-whites, homosexuals, etc.
Today, with the revelation of the Republican policies and Cabinet hirings, the elderly will be added to a soon to come list that undoubtedly come out....... under a different title.of course.

When comes time that a very sick or very sick and old person, is at the point where they are screaming and crying for God to take them and there is nothing that the medical community can do to heal or comfort them, then it is Objectively moral to provide the means to ease them on out of this life. A clinically depressed person does not qualify for Euthanasia because there is treatment for this illness.
 
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JackRT

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When comes time that a very sick or very sick and old person, is at the point where they are screaming and crying for God to take them and there is nothing that the medical community can do to heal or comfort them, then it is Objectively moral to provide the means to ease them on out of this life.

If the person is of sound mind, then yes, I believe it to be moral decision.
 
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dogs4thewin

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No, I don't.

After watching my mother pass? I wrote my own will in a certain fashion, because I don't want to go through what she did - and I don't want my children to witness it like I did.

Mother entered her dying stage, and her stomach and kidneys shut down. I watched her struggle and scream for 14 long days. She was only suppose to go 3-4 days, but she was healthy besides her alzheimer's. It allowed her to struggle longer. I felt the whole experience was cruel for her.

I guess I am more concerned about allowing people to suffer that long when everyone knows there is no true relief until its over. It was her I was concerned about, and not medical costs, inheritance, getting it over with, or how to deal with age. I just wanted her to have peace in God's hands finally.
My dad was the same way. He used to be a big lost his life to colon cancer after losing roughly 100 pounds in the last six months. It is hard as heck to watch. He was given 12 to 24 hours to live by hospice passed away more than forty-eight hours later. By that time I was ready for him to die. It was NOT because I wanted to lose my father it was because I knew he was tired of fighting and quite frankly I was tired of watching him suffer doped up on enough pain medication to kill ANYONE else in the house just by touching the patch without gloves.
 
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