"Women rule over them": Should Hillary Clinton be President?

Achilles6129

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"O My people! Their oppressors [n]are children,
And women rule over them.
O My people! Those who guide you lead you astray
And confuse the direction of your paths." Isa. 3:12 (NASB)

"12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first [h]created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression." 1 Tim. 2:12-14 (NASB)

What do you think?
 
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SepiaAndDust

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I think that, in this election, the woman would make a better president than the man.

The president is not a ruler, not like the kings and judges of old were.

And anyway, the Bible is a product of its times. None of that women can't exercise authority stuff applies to our modern world.
 
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SepiaAndDust

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Why do you believe that the Bible is a product of its times?

Because it is. There's not much call these days for general knowledge of sheep and goats and wheat and tares. The writers weren't repulsed by slavery or by blood guilt. Marriage was known to be between one man and as many women as he could afford. Throwing rocks at people was a valid form of justice.

Not our time, not our place.
 
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SepiaAndDust

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SepiaAndDust

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That's not what I asked. Anyways, even if there's not a "perfect version," can't we all get the point?

Yeah, I get the point. The point is that you found some Bible verses that say that women shouldn't have authority. I disagree because there are verses that support slavery. Anybody who supports slavery is evil. There are verses that support killing the families of lawbreakers. Anybody who punishes somebody for blood guilt is evil. There are verses that require killing people by repeatedly throwing rocks at them. Anybody who kills somebody else by repeatedly throwing rocks at them is evil.

So no, I'm not going to accept "the point".
 
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JackRT

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Any organization, religious or secular and including marriage, that fails to include women in leadership roles right up to the very top is guilty of several evils. First, it is the insult to the women themselves by viewing them as less worthy. Second, it is the insult to God by denigrating half of God’s creation. If we continue to treat women in this way, then the human race is condemned to stand on one foot, see with one eye, hear with one ear and think with one half the human mind ---- and it shows.
 
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SepiaAndDust

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If we continue to treat women in this way, then the human race is condemned to stand on one foot, see with one eye, hear with one ear and think with one half the human mind ---- and it shows.

Well, not if you say it twice! ;)
 
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Achilles6129

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Yeah, I get the point. The point is that you found some Bible verses that say that women shouldn't have authority. I disagree because there are verses that support slavery. Anybody who supports slavery is evil. There are verses that support killing the families of lawbreakers. Anybody who punishes somebody for blood guilt is evil. There are verses that require killing people by repeatedly throwing rocks at them. Anybody who kills somebody else by repeatedly throwing rocks at them is evil.

So no, I'm not going to accept "the point".
So you believe that the God of the Bible is evil, then?
 
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Achilles6129

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Any organization, religious or secular and including marriage, that fails to include women in leadership roles right up to the very top is guilty of several evils. First, it is the insult to the women themselves by viewing them as less worthy. Second, it is the insult to God by denigrating half of God’s creation. If we continue to treat women in this way, then the human race is condemned to stand on one foot, see with one eye, hear with one ear and think with one half the human mind ---- and it shows.
Would you care to comment on those passages I posted? God created women; doesn't God know what his creation is for?
 
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SepiaAndDust

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So you believe that the God of the Bible is evil, then?

Don't. I won't tell you twice.

I believe that the Bible is a product of the times and places it was written in. Slavery was fine, marrying a bunch of women was fine, blood guilt was fine. Then and there, they didn't know any better.

But we do know better. For us to support such things would be at least misguided and possibly evil.
 
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JackRT

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So you believe that the God of the Bible is evil, then?

The "God of the Bible" is a product of human understanding. If this God seems evil then it is not God who is to blame.
 
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SepiaAndDust

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Well, it's a little bit difficult to understand what you guys believe. Do you just pick which parts to accept and reject, then?

If it's evil, misguided, or plain wrong, yeah. If it's poetic or mythic, I'll enjoy the story, and I'll learn what I can from it, but I'm not going to let it interfere with my knowledge of the world. There were no talking snakes or magic trees, for instance.
 
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JackRT

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In the Bible we read of some of the very worst of human behaviour ---- genocide, slavery, xenophobia, misogyny, patriarchy and homophobia. I do not believe that any of these reflect God's will. Rather, they reflect cultural standards of far away and long ago. They are not prescriptive for us today.

I approach the Bible like a prospector would approach his claim. I am prepared to spend a lot of time and effort searching for the shining nuggets of wisdom and insight but I am also prepared to have to shift a lot of rubble in order to find them.
 
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