YE ARE GODS!! (already-not yet)

Anto9us

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John 10:30-34

30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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John 10:30-34
30 I and my Father are one.
Joke: when will they be two ? (when's their birthday ! ) :)
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next !
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This is better, > (and perhaps in line with the op/ title/ Yhwh's Plan) <
? Who then is (or will be) one in John 17 ? (hint: I didn't plan to post this here, but was inspired to.)
 
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Dkh587

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It took me a long time to understand Psalms 82

It's a story of God giving His judgement to the sons of God(from Genesis 6), and sentencing them to death like men, for their sin and wickedness.

The sons of God are part of a divine council, who help God with the affairs of this world. But the Most High YAH is over all of them. He is the source. They are in a way "little gods". They're what most people in our culture would understand to be angels, or some sort of a god-like being

Yah is a God, but he's the Most High God/Elohim. These sons of God are gods/elohim, but they are not The most high Elohim.

You see, the Pharisees and teachers were mad that he said he was the Son of God, and accused him of blaspheming. But he quickly rebuked them, and quoted from Psalm 82, because it tells us how God Almighty told the sons of God/elohim that they are "gods" or "elohim", but they'll die like men

What Yahushua was saying was this: how are you mad at me when the scripture says that God called these sons of God "gods". So him stating that is he God would not be blaspheming, because of what is written in Psalms 82


----

“The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Yahushua answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:33-36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

----

“God presides in the great assembly; he renders judgment among the “gods”:

Defend the weak and the fatherless; uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed. Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.

The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’ But you will die like mere mortals; you will fall like every other ruler.”

Rise up, O God, judge the earth, for all the nations are your inheritance.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭82:1, 3-8‬ ‭NIV‬‬
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Various Hebrew Words, all translated "God" or "god" in english, inaccurately,
reveal much when revealed.
Yhwh, Yhvh, Yahweh, Yahshua, Yeshua, Elohim

Some estimates are over 1000 occurrences of the Creator's Name
are improperly translated,
perhaps so billions of people do not learn His Name and do not take it in vain.
 
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Anto9us

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Various Hebrew Words, all translated "God" or "god" in english, inaccurately,
reveal much when revealed.
Yhwh, Yhvh, Yahweh, Yahshua, Yeshua, Elohim

Some estimates are over 1000 occurrences of the Creator's Name
are improperly translated,
perhaps so billions of people do not learn His Name and do not take it in vain.
 
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Anto9us

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dkh-- a most excellent exposition of Psalm 82-- impressive

Yesh-- ya missed it-- there was a

DOUBLE BIRTHDAY celebration last sunday
Not
Father-Son, but my nephew and
Carleen down the block
Both vanilla and strawberry cakes
Keyword-
GLUTTONY
 
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Anto9us

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For the sake of completeness, and TO FULFILL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS, I will include the Isaiah 41 passage that includes the exact phrase


YE ARE GODS:

Isaiah 41:23
Shew the things that are to come hereafter; that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.
24 Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you.

More of the prophet blasting false elohim, whether this be first or second Isaiah or whatnot.

The theme goes well with the message on Psalm 82 which was given earlier, the entire chapters are important for context.

And we have John 17 to peruse also.
 
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mmksparbud

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1 -- A Psalm of Asaph. God hath stood in the company of God, In the midst God doth judge.

2 Till when do ye judge perversely? And the face of the wicked lift up? Selah.

3 Judge ye the weak and fatherless, The afflicted and the poor declare righteous.

4 Let the weak and needy escape, From the hand of the wicked deliver them.

5 They knew not, nor do they understand, In darkness they walk habitually, Moved are all the foundations of earth.

6 I -- I have said, 'Gods ye are, And sons of the Most High -- all of you,

7 But as man ye die, and as one of the heads ye fall,

8 Rise, O God, judge the earth, For Thou hast inheritance among all the nations!
godlike beings", "angels", "angelic creatures". But definitely not "Gods".

אֱלֹהִים as 'Power' or 'Powerful Ones.' That covers the different possible meanings of G-d, false gods, powerful people or angels. Those who are either powerful or are falsely thought to be powerful in this world.

In a Kabbalistic sense when G-d is referred to as אֱלֹהִים that represents G-d acting within nature, while Y-H-V-H represents G-d transcending nature.

Psalm 82 poetically plays on the different meanings of אֱלֹהִים to exhort judges to judge properly and support the weak and poor rather than favoring the rich and powerful. Here is my non-literal translation.

G-d 'stands' in the midst of judges and will judge them.

How long will you (bad) judges favor the wicked? Give justice to the weak, the orphan and the poor. Rescue the needy and powerless from the hands of the wicked.

They (corrupt judges) do not know nor do they understand that they walk in darkness.

I thought all judges were G-dly and powerful sons of the most High (i.e. good and righteous) But like all men, even powerful princes you will die.

Please G-d judge the world, you control all the nations.


http://yltbible.com/psalms/82.htm
 
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Der Alte

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Psalm 82 as translated by Jewish scholars in the 1917 Jewish Publication Society OT.
JPS Psalms 82:1-8
(1) A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of God [אל]; in the midst of the judges He judgeth:
(2) 'How long will ye judge unjustly, and respect the persons of the wicked? Selah
(3) Judge the poor and fatherless; do justice to the afflicted and destitute.
(4) Rescue the poor and needy; deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.
(5) They know not, neither do they understand; they go about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are moved.
(6) I said: Ye are godlike beings, and all of you sons of the Most High.
(7) Nevertheless ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.'
(8) Arise, O God, judge the earth; for Thou shalt possess all nations.

John 10:34-35
(34) Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
(35) If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Even as Jesus quoted Psalm 82:6 it does not say, "You are gods" it is qualified it says "I said, you are gods." They were not literally, actually gods, they were only said to be gods. God does not say in one place. There is no God beside me. There was no God before me. There will be no God after me. Is 43:10, 44:8, then say in another place that men were gods. Also Jesus did not say to the priests, Pharisees, etc. "You are gods." And He certainly did not indicate all of mankind were gods. He said, "If He [God] called them...gods" Notice, "them" third person. Only the corrupt Judges of the congregation of El were called gods but they died as men. The congregation of God, Ps 82:1, was the nation of Israel. Not some heavenly council of gods.

Joshua 22:16 Thus saith the whole congregation of the LORD,
What trespass is this that ye have committed against the God of Israel, to turn away this day from following the LORD, in that ye have builded you an altar, that ye might rebel this day against the LORD?
1 Chronicles 28:8 Now therefore in the sight of all Israel the congregation of the LORD, and in the audience of our God, keep and seek for all the commandments of the LORD your God: that ye may possess this good land, and leave it for an inheritance for your children after you for ever.
2 Chronicles 1:3 So Solomon, and all the congregation with him, went to the high place that was at Gibeon; for there was the tabernacle of the congregation of God, which Moses the servant of the LORD had made in the wilderness.
Nehemiah 13:1 On that day they read in the book of Moses in the audience of the people; and therein was found written, that the Ammonite and the Moabite should not come into the congregation of God for ever;
Psalms 68:10 Thy congregation hath dwelt therein: thou, O God, hast prepared of thy goodness for the poor.
Numbers 31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
 
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mmksparbud

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Elohiym


The following is an excerpt from the book The Living Words.

If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the judges, to see whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour's goods.Exodus 22:8 (KJV)

A judge is one who possesses great "power" and "authority." The Hebrew word behind the word "judges" in the passage above is אל הים elohiym [H:430], the plural form of the word אל וה elo’ah [H:433]. You may notice the first two letters of this word is the word אל el [H:410], meaning "mighty one," which we discussed in the last section. Because the word elo’ah is derived from el, they are very similar in meaning.

The word elo’ah, "one of power and authority," can also be applied to God or any other god.

Oh that I might have my request; and that God (elo’ah) would grant me the thing that I long for! Job 6:8 (KJV)

Then shall he sweep by as a wind, and shall pass over, and be guilty, even he whose might is his god (elo’ah). Habakkuk 1:11 (ASV)

The word אל הים elohiym [H:430], the plural form of אל וה elo’ah [H:433], is frequently used as a proper name for Yahweh, the creator of heaven and earth.

These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth in their filling, in the day that Yahweh Elohiym made the earth and the heavens.Genesis 2:4

The "power and authority" of Yahweh can be, and is, passed on to others as we see in the following verse.

And Yahweh said unto Moses, "See, I have given you Elohiym for Pharaoh: and Aaron your brother will be your prophet." Exodus 7:1

What does Yahweh mean by "See I have given you"? Is there something physical about Moses that Yahweh gave to him which could have been "seen" showing his "power and authority"? In our discussion of the word אל el [H:410], we learned this word represented horns of power and the staff of authority. Did Moses also have these symbols?

And Yahweh said to [Moses], "What is this in your hand?" And he said, "A staff." And he said, "Cast it down to the ground" and he cast it down to the ground and it became a serpent and Moses fled from before it. Exodus 4:2,3

Yahweh took an ordinary staff of a shepherd, turned it into an instrument of power and authority and gave it to Moses to do great miracles. We do know Moses did carry a staff representing his authority, but what about the horns?

And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of the testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses knew not that the skin of his face shone by reason of his speaking with him. And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw

Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.Exodus 34:29,30 (ASV)

In this verse, we find there was a physical change in Moses which created fear in the people. Was it just a light coming off him that generated this fear? No—as we shall see, the above translation "skin of his face shone," is a poor translation of the Hebrew. The Hebrew word translated as "shone" is קרן qaran [7160], which literally means "to have horns."

Interestingly, many paintings and sculptures of Moses depict him with horns such as in Michelangelo’s sculpture of Moses.

It has been speculated the "horns" on Moses’ face are "rays" of light that shone from his face, hence the translation we read in all English Bibles. However, there are other Hebrew words meaning "to shine" and if that was what the author had intended, he would have used one of those. Instead, he deliberately chose to use the word qaran to show Moses was indeed one of power and authority. This is an example of my reasons for desiring a "mechanical" and "literal" translation of the Hebrew Bible, so the reader can read the text without the translators’ bias being interjected into the text.

In my book His Name is One I go into detail about the different names of God. In the next section, I am taking an excerpt from that book.

The following is an excerpt from the book Ancient Hebrew Dictionary.

The plural form of elo'ah, meaning power, is elohiym and is often translated as Elohiym. While English plurals only identify quantity, as in more than one, the Hebrew plural can identify quantity as well as quality. Something that is of great size or stature can be written in the plural form. Elohiym is the one of great strength and authority.

http://www.mechanical-translation.org/mt/articles_names.html#5527
 
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VanillaSunflowers

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We will look at Psalm 82, John 10, and Isaiah 41

If you really think you are God
Go to Kobol and don't post in this thread

If you think you are not-god but that Jesus was/is God;

Post away
Jesus said he was God didn't he? When you have seen me you have seen the Father.

I take the passage in Psalm 82, "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.', as well as in John 10 and particularly verse 34, Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are "gods"'?. That we belong to God. That we are his.
We have the breath of God inside the human race don't we? In the beginning God breathed into the first of us and he became a living soul.
And we were made just a little below the angels when God did create us.

I don't take the passages to be saying we are like God in our capacity to have his power, or that we are demigods. Though we can do as Jesus did,live as righteously as he did, if we have faith. Which is what Jesus said.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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We have the breath of God inside the human race don't we?
Not necessarily, and not according to most Scripture as I understand it.

Most of the human race has been and is , well, unimaginably evil.

Look in the New Testament and see when Yhwh or Yeshua "breathed" on the disciples opening their minds, or on anyone else - perfect redemption, healing, enlightenment, life, experience in spirit of Yhwh, experiential knowledge, freedom from the previous darkness/ lies/ bondage....
 
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ewq1938

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It's simple mockery. In modern English it would be this way:

Psa 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among "the gods".
Psa 82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
Psa 82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Psa 82:4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
Psa 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are "gods"; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psa 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
Psa 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

It is also noteworthy to realize this is David speaking not God and he accuses God of judging unjustly and not dealing with the wicked much like how Job also wrongly accused God.

The Jews didn't understand any of this so Jesus used this to confuse them.
 
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