What do you think this means

Optimax

Senior Veteran
May 7, 2006
17,659
448
New Mexico
✟41,659.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Consider these translations.

1 Tim 2:15
15
But if they go on in faith and love and holy self-control, she will be kept safe at the time of childbirth.
BBE

1 Tim 2:15
15 Yet a woman will be brought safely through childbirth if she and her husband continue to live in faith and love and growing holiness, with habitual self-restraint.
Weymouth

1 Tim 2:15
15 However, she and all women will be saved through the birth of the child, if they lead respectable lives in faith, love, and holiness.
(from GOD'S WORD Copyright © 1995 by God's Word to the Nations Bible Society. All rights reserved.)
 
Upvote 0

Pamelav

Child of God.
Apr 9, 2012
1,026
338
Usa
✟11,247.00
Faith
Salvation Army
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
That is interesting.

But I am pondering how that ties in to what was all said before that.

'But' women will be preserved....how does that have anything to do with the context? The 'but' of course says it has to do with what was said preceding.
 
Upvote 0

Archie the Preacher

Apostle to the Intellectual Skeptics
Apr 11, 2003
3,171
1,011
Hastings, Nebraska - the Heartland!
Visit site
✟38,822.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
No idea.

The notes from the New English Translation (NET) Bible first admit there is no consensus of opinion about it, other than the verse is to soften the impact of the prior two verses. Then they go through a number of theories about it and present information which makes each of those theories improbable as stated.

The last theory is the one I like best. "The verse may point to some sort of proverbial expression now lost, in which “saved” means “delivered” and in which this deliverance was from some of the devastating effects of the role reversal that took place in Eden."

In other words, due to a lack of understanding the specific idiom, 'we' don't and cannot know what it means exactly.

I, (Archie) point out if it were really important, it would be spelled out in greater detail and most likely repeated other places.
 
Upvote 0

Optimax

Senior Veteran
May 7, 2006
17,659
448
New Mexico
✟41,659.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Consider these translations.

1 Tim 2:15
15
But if they go on in faith and love and holy self-control, she will be kept safe at the time of childbirth.
BBE

1 Tim 2:15
15 Yet a woman will be brought safely through childbirth if she and her husband continue to live in faith and love and growing holiness, with habitual self-restraint.
Weymouth

1 Tim 2:15
15 However, she and all women will be saved through the birth of the child, if they lead respectable lives in faith, love, and holiness.
(from GOD'S WORD Copyright © 1995 by God's Word to the Nations Bible Society. All rights reserved.)

All of the above translations are true.
 
Upvote 0

Greg J.

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 2, 2016
3,841
1,907
Southeast Michigan
✟233,164.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Since this verse is an "interesting" one—seems to give us enough information to understand it, but then not really being able to understand it, here's some study ideas.

Read the verse in the context of how the writer believed the readers would understand it. In other words, in the context of the culture. Consider that Paul would have expected males to hear/read his words. Apply the acting technique where you try to become the listener/reader (know what he knows, think like he thinks, likes what he likes (and why), has prejudices he has (and why), and if you're a zealous actor, go try to experience the same things he would have experienced (Method Acting). Imagine starting your day like he would, etc. to put yourself in his place. What expectations would you have of yourself, of your wife, who probably spent all her time most days just taking care of the family?

Understand it in such a way that you find it a natural part of the verses around it. One thing to try is to erase the exact words of the verse, and try to write something that should be there based on the surrounding verses.

Another related approach is to consider how childbearing might be related to continuing "in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint" (separately from the verse).

As mentioned above, look at other translations. Figure out what parts the different translators agreed on and which parts they did not. Do some research and ask God what the verse means every day for a while. If you genuinely want to understand it (not really something you get to choose), you will be able to persist in prayer like this, and God will advance your understanding (which is sometimes more pieces of information needed to understand the answer he didn't yet make clear).

The more significant the matter is, the more related experiences and faithfulness you need to have had for God to give you a clear answer, because an overly simple answer could cause you misapply the information and/or draw incorrect conclusions, or worse, cause you to share something incorrect with others. (Some of the reasons we don't hear from him as much as we would like; we are accountable for whatever we hear)

For a taste (hopefully interesting) of a more direct translation of the verse (and possibly of some value to some readers), I've added the below, but it is not a particularly important part of my above suggestions.

Here's the Greek, Greek transliterated, and a literal English translation (Apostolic Bible Polyglot Greek-English Interlinear). It's not so you can have a superior translation, because it isn't unless you study the definition of each Greek word (and sometimes need to be an expert in Greek grammar).

15 σωθήσεται δε διά της τεκνογονίας εάν μείνωσιν εν
sothaysetai de dia tays teknogonias ean meinosin en
But she shall be preserved through the childbearing, if they abide in

πίστει και αγάπη και αγιασμώ μετά σωφροσύνης
pistei kai agapay kai agiasmo meta sophrosunays
belief, and love, and sanctification, with discreetness.
(gah, the web site editor doesn't preserve manual spacing)

To take advantage of translator's expertise, I trust the NASB more than my effort to understand the Greek, which is:

15 But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint (NASB).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

seashale76

Unapologetic Iconodule
Dec 29, 2004
14,006
4,403
✟173,303.00
Country
United States
Faith
Melkite Catholic
Marital Status
Married
NKJV
1 Timothy 2:15
Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

Orthodox Study Bible (commentary):
2:15 This verse does not imply that a woman must have children in order to be saved. If salvation is comprehensive, involving all of one's life, then women who do have children are saved, in part, by motherhood, if they persevere in godliness. Our God-given role in life is the place of our salvation.
 
Upvote 0

Optimax

Senior Veteran
May 7, 2006
17,659
448
New Mexico
✟41,659.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
So that means if a woman never has children, she cannot be saved. Christ is not sufficient?

Perhaps ya missed the scriptures.

1 Tim 2:15
15
But if they go on in faith and love and holy self-control, she will be kept safe at the time of childbirth.
BBE

1 Tim 2:15
15 Yet a woman will be brought safely through childbirth if she and her husband continue to live in faith and love and growing holiness, with habitual self-restraint.
Weymouth

1 Tim 2:15
15 However, she and all women will be saved through the birth of the child, if they lead respectable lives in faith, love, and holiness.
(from GOD'S WORD Copyright © 1995 by God's Word to the Nations Bible Society. All rights reserved.)
 
Upvote 0

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟188,109.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
To me it's saying that woman have the ability to work out their salvation through the righteous rearing of her children. Ellen White speaks extensively about the blessed responsibility a Christian mother has in raising up God's little ones. Sanctification through Godly motherhood....
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Pamelav

Child of God.
Apr 9, 2012
1,026
338
Usa
✟11,247.00
Faith
Salvation Army
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
To me it's saying that woman have the ability to work out their salvation through the righteous rearing of her children. Ellen White speaks extensively about the blessed responsibility a Christian mother has in raising up God's little ones. Sanctification through Godly motherhood....

To me that is like saying they have the ability to work out there salvation thru anything then. Like whatever God gives us in life, we work out our salvation.
 
Upvote 0

Archie the Preacher

Apostle to the Intellectual Skeptics
Apr 11, 2003
3,171
1,011
Hastings, Nebraska - the Heartland!
Visit site
✟38,822.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
Pamelav said:
To me that is like saying they have the ability to work out there salvation thru anything then. Like whatever God gives us in life, we work out our salvation.
Pamelav, by now you see the problem of understanding this passage. Nearly everything attempted almost fits, but nothing really fits well.

I really cannot understand this to mean 'women are only accepted if they are baby-factories' - which has been set forth, by the way. That's why I tend to prefer the 'unknown ancient metaphor and we'll never know' thought.
 
Upvote 0

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟188,109.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Pamelav, by now you see the problem of understanding this passage. Nearly everything attempted almost fits, but nothing really fits well.

I really cannot understand this to mean 'women are only accepted if they are baby-factories' - which has been set forth, by the way. That's why I tend to prefer the 'unknown ancient metaphor and we'll never know' thought.
Ahhh... never said that a woman had to bear children to be sanctified. I think you use of the term 'baby factories' demeans the blessing God has given to women. A God fearing mother can make all the difference in a child's ability to know and understand God's love for us...
 
Upvote 0

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟188,109.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
To me that is like saying they have the ability to work out there salvation thru anything then. Like whatever God gives us in life, we work out our salvation.
Why would you relate the sanctified office of motherhood with 'anything'? You are correct in your last statement though that God gives us what we need for us to work out our salvation.... sometimes trials, sometimes chastisement, sometimes encouragement... all the time Love.
 
Upvote 0

Pamelav

Child of God.
Apr 9, 2012
1,026
338
Usa
✟11,247.00
Faith
Salvation Army
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Why would you relate the sanctified office of motherhood with 'anything'? You are correct in your last statement though that God gives us what we need for us to work out our salvation.... sometimes trials, sometimes chastisement, sometimes encouragement... all the time Love.

I'm really sorry, but I don't understand how this point relates to the question of the OP.

Personally, I think it must actually be one of those unanswerable scriptures only they understood back in those times.

I don't have any kids, so maybe I am sounding insensitive? I really wouldn't know.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Archie the Preacher

Apostle to the Intellectual Skeptics
Apr 11, 2003
3,171
1,011
Hastings, Nebraska - the Heartland!
Visit site
✟38,822.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
EastCoastRemnant said:
Ahhh... never said that a woman had to bear children to be sanctified. I think you use of the term 'baby factories' demeans the blessing God has given to women. A God fearing mother can make all the difference in a child's ability to know and understand God's love for us...
I never said you were the one putting it forth. However, I see where you might make that inference and for that ambiguity I apologize. I meant exactly what I said; I (me) could not agree with that particular interpretation. And, it has been put forth, preached and voiced about before in times past.

Again, involving you was not my goal and I apologize for the ambiguity.
 
Upvote 0