Should Christians Choose Between the Lesser of Two Evil's in the 2016 Election ?

Dec 14, 2010
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Perhaps the Conestoga Indians should build a wall to keep out the white man. Hold it, too late! This entire peaceful tribe--men, women and children--were murdered by the “Paxton Boys,” Presbyterian Scots-Irish settlers, in Lancaster County in 1763.

Hey but Mexicans didn't. California, Nevada, Colorado, Arizona, Utah, Nuevo México and Texas had lots of Mexicans who didn't disapear, they didn't cross the border, the border crossed them, and in exchange to be White Mexicans they in fact were already mestizo, You know, Mexicans carry in the color of their skin the patent of authenticity as heirs of the lands of the Indians, In fact The mission of the Alamo, was a catholic mission for evangelizing Mexican natives of Texas and teach them christianism, the original one. And it was that until protestants illegal immigrants took it as a post for war with Mexico.
 
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Archivist

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Hey but Mexicans didn't. California, Nevada, Colorado, Arizona, Utah, Nuevo México and Texas had lots of Mexicans who didn't disapear, they didn't cross the border, the border crossed them, and in exchange to be White Mexicans they in fact were already mestizo, You know, Mexicans carry in the color of their skin the patent of authenticity as heirs of the lands of the Indians, In fact The mission of the Alamo, was a catholic mission for evangelizing Mexican natives of Texas and teach them christianism, the original one. And it was that until protestants took it as a post for war with Mexico.
Very true. And the US/Mexican border was very porous for many years.
 
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KWCrazy

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Canada and USA are not the same nation and no wall is between them. Muslims who caused September 11th terrorist Attack didn't entered from Mexico, but from Canada. But it happens that Mexicans are a bit Browner than Canadians... ... aren't we?
Don't make yourself look more foolish than necessary by mindlessly parroting party lies.
!4 of the 15 terrorists from 9/11 came from Saudi Arabia, and were here originally on student visa's which they overstayed. In other words, they were illegal aliens. The northern border is enormous, but you can only get to Canada via ship or aircraft. You can't walk there from anywhere but here. You CAN cross Mexico from other countries and walk into the the southern US. Illegal aliens are responsible for far too many of the crimes committed against American citizens. It is dereliction of duty to NOT enforce immigration laws.

If a Canadian is illegally working in USA, you wouldn't know if he is white and speak English, and probably you wouldn't care.
You know what happens when you assume, right?
An illegal alien is an illegal alien regardless of his country of origin. We have the right to know who enters our country and we have the right to refuse entry as well. By the way. You might want to look into Mexico's immigration policy and see how THEY treat those who violate their borders.

But a browny Mexican-american despite speaking in English would be evidently not white, and you may bother about him and wonder if he is legally there, despite that that one is perhaps a USA Citizen.
I don't know any Mexican Americans. I know a number of Americans who are of Mexican origin, and I know Americans of Hispanic descent. None of this has anything whatever to do with enforcing our immigration laws.
 
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KWCrazy

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Hey but Mexicans didn't. California, Nevada, Colorado, Arizona, Utah, Nuevo México and Texas had lots of Mexicans who didn't disapear, they didn't cross the border, the border crossed them.
Lucky them.
When the southwestern states became part of the US, then those residents became Americans.
You're welcome.
That doesn't give someone born in Juarez the right to go to LA and join a street gang. Those born in Juarez are still Mexicans. We had to stop somewhere, so we stopped at the Rio Grande.
Imagine how much better your lives would be right now had we not stopped at the river.
You know, Mexicans carry in the color of their skin the patent of authenticity as heirs of the lands of the Indians,
Racist propaganda.
The color of your skin does not entitle you to property ownership.
The fact is, you own what you can defend.
I own my home because I hold a deed and I have a court system that helps me defend it. If the government collapsed, it would be up to me and my private stash of politically incorrect weapons to continue to defend it.
Mexico lost a war. Losing a war means losing territory. Had they won, they would have solidified their claim to the southwest.

Just because your great grandfather used to live in Texas, it doesn't mean that you have the right to illegally cross our border.
 
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I don't know any Mexican Americans. I know a number of Americans who are of Mexican origin, and I know Americans of Hispanic descent. None of this has anything whatever to do with enforcing our immigration laws.


Mexican-Americans have US Passport and Mexico Passport.
 
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Lucky them.
When the southwestern states became part of the US, then those residents became Americans.
You're welcome.
That doesn't give someone born in Juarez the right to go to LA and join a street gang. Those born in Juarez are still Mexicans. We had to stop somewhere, so we stopped at the Rio Grande.
Imagine how much better your lives would be right now had we not stopped at the river.

Racist propaganda.
The color of your skin does not entitle you to property ownership.
The fact is, you own what you can defend.
I own my home because I hold a deed and I have a court system that helps me defend it. If the government collapsed, it would be up to me and my private stash of politically incorrect weapons to continue to defend it.
Mexico lost a war. Losing a war means losing territory. Had they won, they would have solidified their claim to the southwest.

Just because your great grandfather used to live in Texas, it doesn't mean that you have the right to illegally cross our border.


The Key Word is Legitimacy.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Very true. And the US/Mexican border was very porous for many years.
A LOT of idolatry was brought into the usa. It has been sadly present even in grocery stores all across the country the last 20 years or more, give or take some.
 
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donlor

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BIBLICAL CASE FOR VOTING PART 1
It is true that to make a biblical case to vote has some difficulties. Yet, it appears that this is a necessity. I have spent some time searching the net about voting for the lesser of two evils. It has been mainly a wasted task although I did find a few posts that are reasonable. These will be included at the end of part 2.

To begin with, the premise of voting for the lesser of two evils is but a partial truth. It is just as surely (voting for the lesser of two evils ) a voting for the greater of the two goods. This is true however constrictive or minimal the two goods (greater or lesser) may be. If the choice is framed this way (voting for the greater of the two goods) it makes for an easier understanding, forthright reply & wider dialogue.

The heart of the argument for not voting for the lesser of two evils is that by voting you are participating in evil. Let us look at what the word participate means in the nt greek.
ARTICLE - The word “participate” or “take part in” comes from the Greek word “sugkoinoneo” (4790), and means have fellowship, to share in company with, to be a partaker of, co-participate in. Are there different levels of participation? Yes, you can actively participate by being a part of the evil deed (Psalm 26:4-5, Proverbs 4:14-16, Jeremiah 15:17, Romans 16:17), or you can passively participate by not stopping the person from doing the evil deed (Numbers 20:1-13, Numbers 20:23-29, Numbers 27:12-14, 1 Corinthians 10:4, Psalm 141:5, Matthew 18:15-17, Luke 17:3-4, Galatians 2:11-14, Titus 3:10-11, James 5:19-20, 1 John 5:16), or by not reporting the evil deed (Leviticus 5:1, Proverbs 29:24).
So how can you avoid participating in evil deeds? By walking uprightly in your heart before GOD (Proverbs 15:1-5, Proverbs 2:7, Proverbs 10:9, Proverbs 28:18, Deuteronomy 12:28, Ezekiel 18:5, James 1:22-25, 1 John 2:3-6, 1 John 2:29, 1 John 3:7-10, 1 John 5:2-5, Revelation 22:14), and separating yourself from evil doers (Psalm 1:1, Proverbs 14:7, Romans 16:17-18, 1 Corinthians 5:9-11, 2 Corinthians 6:14-18, 2 Timothy 3:5—ways in which someone can hold to a form of godliness but deny its power (Isaiah 29:13, Ezekiel 33:30-31, Matthew 23:27-28, Titus 1:16), James 1:27, 2 John 1:10-11).

So, if by voting for that person who would make for the most common good - is this act to “have fellowship, to share in company with, to be a partaker of, co-participate in”evil? NO. The argument to not vote has just lost one of it’s two legs.

Next let’s look at conscience in the nt greek. Conscience - syneídesis (from 4862 /sýn, "together with" and 1492 /eído "to know, see") – properly, joint-knowing, i.e. conscience which joins moral and spiritual consciousness as part of being created in the divine image. Accordingly, all people have this God-given capacity to know right from wrong because each is a free moral agent (cf. Jn 1:4,7,9; Gen 1:26,27).
"Conscience (4893 /syneídesis) is an innate discernment, self-judging consciousness"
Rom 2:14-15 “For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,”
Barnes' Notes on the Bible says this (in part) about this passage. Their conscience - This word properly means the judgment of the mind respecting right and wrong; or the judgment which the mind passes on the morality or immorality of its own actions, when it instantly approves or condemns them. It has usually been termed the moral sense, and is a very important principle in a moral government. Its design is to answer the purposes of an ever attendant witness of a man's conduct; to compel him to pronounce on his own doings, and thus to excite him to virtuous deeds, to give comfort and peace when he does right, to deter from evil actions by making him, whether he will or no, his own executioner: see John 8:9; Acts 23:1; Acts 24:16; Romans 9:1; 1 Timothy 1:5. By nature every man thus approves or condemns his own acts; and there is not a profounder principle of the divine administration, than thus compelling every man to pronounce on the moral character of his own conduct. Conscience may be enlightened or unenlightened; and its use may be greatly perverted by false opinions. Its province is not to communicate any new truth, it is simply to express judgment, and to impart pleasure or inflict pain for a man's own good or evil conduct.
Barnes speaks on the “morality or immorality of its own actions” & also “attendant witness of a man's conduct” So, we have here, as we do about participate, that a person’s actions are spoken of & that is what the conscience judges. Here again, if by voting for that person who would make for the most common good - is this act an “immorality of its own actions” or “attendant witness” of a voters evil conduct - NO. With voting are we talking about “man's own good or evil conduct.” NO. The argument to not vote has just lost the second of it’s two legs.

Matt 5:13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.” What was the purpose of salt - to hinder decay & also to season & flavor. How can we do this (hinder decay & flavor) as American citizens - by voting for those who would best lead this nation in allowing for more religious liberty.

Matt 6:9-10 “Pray, then, in this way: Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done, On earth as it is in heaven.” We hallow & honor God’s name by the thoughts we harbor, the actions we both engage in & by those we do not engage in & by the way we live. We hallow & honor God’s name by making it possible (as far as we can) for the most moral good to be done to the most people. Such a choice is available to all of us in this election. Which candidate will allow for the GREATER GOOD? Which candidate will allow for more religious liberty & less government sponsored moral evil? Who will & who won’t squander the finances of this nation?
 
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samir

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No we don't have a wall in our southern border. In fact it is the Government of USA which is pushing Mexico to be harsh against central-americans.

Does Mexico allow everyone to enter regardless of their background and criminal history? Do you think the US should have an open border and allow everyone to enter?
 
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Does Mexico allow everyone to enter regardless of their background and criminal history? Do you think the US should have an open border and allow everyone to enter?

I think that USA should have borders as all other nations. But then we have to read the Bible:

exodus 22:21 , Exodus 23:9 , Leviticus 19:10 , Leviticus 19:33-34
 
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mikpat

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Archivist——Regarding your uhhh #409 comments

Policeman, was responding to a domestic disturbance at the Steele's home.
Office Hill attempted to break up the dispute when the Steele's German Shepherd interfered.
He told the people to get the dog, the dog attacked Officer Hill.
The Officer attempted to shoot the dog but slipped, he fired twice at the dog.
Autumn Steele was hit in the torso while the officer was bitten by the dog.

(Wikipedia)

Sounds like an unfortunate accident but the Steele family should have made some effort to restrain the dog, a German Shepherd——-rather large dogs. Officer Hill had to make an instantaneous decision being attacked by the dog. . Had nothing to do with " uhh trigger-happy " police.

Using "many" instead of "most" is a matter of semantics either way your message is made…

BTW your post 409 is a non sequitur,,,,doesn't relate to the instance of parading parents (at the DNC convention) of thugs shot by police during a criminal act———at the DNC convention. If such agitprop is acted out——-the question I asked would they, the administrators ask Mrs. Gerald to speak?
 
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samir

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I think that USA should have borders as all other nations. But then we have to read the Bible:

exodus 22:21 , Exodus 23:9 , Leviticus 19:10 , Leviticus 19:33-34

Should the USA be allowed to control who enters those borders and built walls to keep people they don't want out such as drug dealers and those fleeing prosecution for a murder they committed?

I agree Jews and Christians should treat immigrants and foreigners kindly but what does that have to do with a government's immigration policies?
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Americans of all religions, creeds, etc should treat immigrants and foreigners kindly———-as long as they do not break the law or laws…….that is common sense.

What should we do with illegal immigrants?
 
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Rick Otto

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Hey but Mexicans didn't. California, Nevada, Colorado, Arizona, Utah, Nuevo México and Texas had lots of Mexicans who didn't disapear, they didn't cross the border, the border crossed them, and in exchange to be White Mexicans they in fact were already mestizo, You know, Mexicans carry in the color of their skin the patent of authenticity as heirs of the lands of the Indians, In fact The mission of the Alamo, was a catholic mission for evangelizing Mexican natives of Texas and teach them christianism, the original one. And it was that until protestants illegal immigrants took it as a post for war with Mexico.
"Heirs" of the land of the Indians.

Wow.
 
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Rick Otto

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BIBLICAL CASE FOR VOTING PART 1
It is true that to make a biblical case to vote has some difficulties. Yet, it appears that this is a necessity. I have spent some time searching the net about voting for the lesser of two evils. It has been mainly a wasted task although I did find a few posts that are reasonable. These will be included at the end of part 2.

To begin with, the premise of voting for the lesser of two evils is but a partial truth. It is just as surely (voting for the lesser of two evils ) a voting for the greater of the two goods. This is true however constrictive or minimal the two goods (greater or lesser) may be. If the choice is framed this way (voting for the greater of the two goods) it makes for an easier understanding, forthright reply & wider dialogue.

The heart of the argument for not voting for the lesser of two evils is that by voting you are participating in evil. Let us look at what the word participate means in the nt greek.
ARTICLE - The word “participate” or “take part in” comes from the Greek word “sugkoinoneo” (4790), and means have fellowship, to share in company with, to be a partaker of, co-participate in. Are there different levels of participation? Yes, you can actively participate by being a part of the evil deed (Psalm 26:4-5, Proverbs 4:14-16, Jeremiah 15:17, Romans 16:17), or you can passively participate by not stopping the person from doing the evil deed (Numbers 20:1-13, Numbers 20:23-29, Numbers 27:12-14, 1 Corinthians 10:4, Psalm 141:5, Matthew 18:15-17, Luke 17:3-4, Galatians 2:11-14, Titus 3:10-11, James 5:19-20, 1 John 5:16), or by not reporting the evil deed (Leviticus 5:1, Proverbs 29:24).
So how can you avoid participating in evil deeds? By walking uprightly in your heart before GOD (Proverbs 15:1-5, Proverbs 2:7, Proverbs 10:9, Proverbs 28:18, Deuteronomy 12:28, Ezekiel 18:5, James 1:22-25, 1 John 2:3-6, 1 John 2:29, 1 John 3:7-10, 1 John 5:2-5, Revelation 22:14), and separating yourself from evil doers (Psalm 1:1, Proverbs 14:7, Romans 16:17-18, 1 Corinthians 5:9-11, 2 Corinthians 6:14-18, 2 Timothy 3:5—ways in which someone can hold to a form of godliness but deny its power (Isaiah 29:13, Ezekiel 33:30-31, Matthew 23:27-28, Titus 1:16), James 1:27, 2 John 1:10-11).

So, if by voting for that person who would make for the most common good - is this act to “have fellowship, to share in company with, to be a partaker of, co-participate in”evil? NO. The argument to not vote has just lost one of it’s two legs.

Next let’s look at conscience in the nt greek. Conscience - syneídesis (from 4862 /sýn, "together with" and 1492 /eído "to know, see") – properly, joint-knowing, i.e. conscience which joins moral and spiritual consciousness as part of being created in the divine image. Accordingly, all people have this God-given capacity to know right from wrong because each is a free moral agent (cf. Jn 1:4,7,9; Gen 1:26,27).
"Conscience (4893 /syneídesis) is an innate discernment, self-judging consciousness"
Rom 2:14-15 “For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,”
Barnes' Notes on the Bible says this (in part) about this passage. Their conscience - This word properly means the judgment of the mind respecting right and wrong; or the judgment which the mind passes on the morality or immorality of its own actions, when it instantly approves or condemns them. It has usually been termed the moral sense, and is a very important principle in a moral government. Its design is to answer the purposes of an ever attendant witness of a man's conduct; to compel him to pronounce on his own doings, and thus to excite him to virtuous deeds, to give comfort and peace when he does right, to deter from evil actions by making him, whether he will or no, his own executioner: see John 8:9; Acts 23:1; Acts 24:16; Romans 9:1; 1 Timothy 1:5. By nature every man thus approves or condemns his own acts; and there is not a profounder principle of the divine administration, than thus compelling every man to pronounce on the moral character of his own conduct. Conscience may be enlightened or unenlightened; and its use may be greatly perverted by false opinions. Its province is not to communicate any new truth, it is simply to express judgment, and to impart pleasure or inflict pain for a man's own good or evil conduct.
Barnes speaks on the “morality or immorality of its own actions” & also “attendant witness of a man's conduct” So, we have here, as we do about participate, that a person’s actions are spoken of & that is what the conscience judges. Here again, if by voting for that person who would make for the most common good - is this act an “immorality of its own actions” or “attendant witness” of a voters evil conduct - NO. With voting are we talking about “man's own good or evil conduct.” NO. The argument to not vote has just lost the second of it’s two legs.

Matt 5:13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.” What was the purpose of salt - to hinder decay & also to season & flavor. How can we do this (hinder decay & flavor) as American citizens - by voting for those who would best lead this nation in allowing for more religious liberty.

Matt 6:9-10 “Pray, then, in this way: Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done, On earth as it is in heaven.” We hallow & honor God’s name by the thoughts we harbor, the actions we both engage in & by those we do not engage in & by the way we live. We hallow & honor God’s name by making it possible (as far as we can) for the most moral good to be done to the most people. Such a choice is available to all of us in this election. Which candidate will allow for the GREATER GOOD? Which candidate will allow for more religious liberty & less government sponsored moral evil? Who will & who won’t squander the finances of this nation?
I might agree if the choices and methods of counting weren't so completely corrupt.
There has to be some good before which is greater can be discussed.
I will probably unregister as well.
 
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VanillaSunflowers

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I am greatly disturbed and at odds as to how to resolve this issue. This election in November has been characterized by American voter's as a choice between "two evils". Should Christians be voting in such an election ? Wouldn't we be voting for "Evil" in either circumstance ?...

I've heard plenty of CF members express their conviction to vote for one or the other of the candidates. I did the same a few weeks ago, but now as the election draws nearer, my conscience is saying NO. I seriously don't believe I can walk into an election booth and pull a lever in support of someone who represents something that is patently "evil".

So for the first time in my adult life, I have decided I WILL NOT CAST ANY VOTE.

What do you think ?!
I'm not going to vote. The last time I voted was for the 3rd party ticket when George W. was running the first time.

You may have noticed. More and more it is hard to miss that politics is becoming more and more enmeshed in Humanistic thinking. And as we know politics itself isn't the conduit by which good is done in the world. In fact I would suggest it was politics that led to the death of our Lord.
Yes, his mission to earth was to be that final perfect sacrifice. How it came about though was terribly political.

And personally as I relate to the question asked here, should Christians choose between the lesser of two evils? I answer for myself alone with a question of my own. How can I vote for evil in the name of Christ? :(
 
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jimmyjimmy

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How can I vote for evil in the name of Christ?

You would not be voting "for" evil. You are taking "lessor of two evils" too literally; however, you could certainly prevent a lot of evil with your vote.
 
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