New Covenant

EastCoastRemnant · Jul 22, 2016

If NT Christians are under the new covenant that was foretold in Jeremiah of God's laws written in our hearts, then we have to be considered Israel and/or Judah, right? There is no other mention of anyone else receiving this covenant promise. Therefore, as members (symbolically or spiritually) of the tribes of Israel and/or Judah, are we not then subject to the moral Commandments that were given to Israel/Judah?

bugkiller · Jul 22, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
If NT Christians are under the new covenant that was foretold in Jeremiah of God's laws written in our hearts, then we have to be considered Israel and/or Judah, right? There is no other mention of anyone else receiving this covenant promise. Therefore, as members (symbolically or spiritually) of the tribes of Israel and/or Judah, are we not then subject to the moral Commandments that were given to Israel/Judah?

No! Read Acts of the Apostles.

bugkiller

Travis93 · Jul 22, 2016

Yes.
Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Revelation 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

We will be joining the twelve tribes in the kingdom. You can see a parallel in the book of Ezekiel when it speaks of end times.

Ezekiel 47:23: And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord God.

SAAN · Jul 23, 2016

bugkiller said:
No! Read Acts of the Apostles.

bugkiller

You mean the same book of Acts in which it showed Peter, the Gentiles and Paul keeping the commandment:

Peter proving the dietary laws were still valid since he still had not eaten anything unclean years after Jesus death.

Acts 10:14King James Version (KJV)
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

-----------------

The Gentiles keeping the Sabbath in Acts 15:21 as they grew in their faith
Acts 15:21
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath day.

-------------------------------
Paul keeping the Feast Days

Day of Pentecost
Acts 2:1
2 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord[a] in one place.

-How did they receive the holy spirit after Jesus died? They were observing the Day of Pentecost that Sunday.

Acts 20:16
16 For Paul had decided to sail past Ephesus, so that he would not have to spend time in Asia; for he was hurrying to be at Jerusalem, if possible, on the Day of Pentecost.

-Paul was hurrying to observe this feast and Jesus has been dead for years.

Passover and Unleavened Bread
Acts 20:6(NKJV)
6 But we sailed away from Philippi after the Days of Unleavened Bread, and in five days joined them at Troas, where we stayed seven days.

-Why even mention Unleavened Bread, if it was abolished and no longer being observed.

Acts 12:1-4
12 Now about that time Herod the king stretched out his hand to harass some from the church. 2 Then he killed James the brother of John with the sword. 3 And because he saw that it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to seize Peter also. Now it was during the Days of Unleavened Bread. 4 So when he had arrested him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four squads of soldiers to keep him, intending to bring him before the people after Passover.

-Verse 3 shows that they were keeping the Passover and Unleavened bread

Feast of Tabernacles
Acts 18:20-21
20 When they asked him to stay a longer time with them, he did not consent, 21 but took leave of them, saying, “I must by all means keep this coming feast in Jerusalem; but I will return again to you, God willing.” And he sailed from Ephesus.

The Day of Atonement
Acts 27:9-10
9 Now when much time had been spent, and sailing was now dangerous because the Fast was already over, Paul advised them, 10 saying, “Men, I perceive that this voyage will end with disaster and much loss, not only of the cargo and ship, but also our lives.”

-Paul is referring to the Fast on the Day of Atonement. Luke wrote the book of Acts many years after Christ’s death and he referred to the Day of Atonement calling it the “Fast”

So why was Paul still observing all of these Feasts years after Christ death, if they were abolished and no longer needed?

Wouldnt Paul have received the revelations on the road to Damascus, when Jesus revealed himself to him that they were no longer needed?

bugkiller · Jul 23, 2016

Travis93 said:
Yes.
Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Revelation 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

We will be joining the twelve tribes in the kingdom. You can see a parallel in the book of Ezekiel when it speaks of end times.

Ezekiel 47:23: And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord God.

Do you really believe every Christian will live in Israel?

bugkiller

bugkiller · Jul 23, 2016

SAAN said:
You mean the same book of Acts in which it showed Peter, the Gentiles and Paul keeping the commandment:

Peter proving the dietary laws were still valid since he still had not eaten anything unclean years after Jesus death.

Acts 10:14King James Version (KJV)
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

-----------------

The Gentiles keeping the Sabbath in Acts 15:21 as they grew in their faith
Acts 15:21
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath day.

-------------------------------
Paul keeping the Feast Days

Day of Pentecost
Acts 2:1
2 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord[a] in one place.

-How did they receive the holy spirit after Jesus died? They were observing the Day of Pentecost that Sunday.

Acts 20:16
16 For Paul had decided to sail past Ephesus, so that he would not have to spend time in Asia; for he was hurrying to be at Jerusalem, if possible, on the Day of Pentecost.

-Paul was hurrying to observe this feast and Jesus has been dead for years.

Passover and Unleavened Bread
Acts 20:6(NKJV)
6 But we sailed away from Philippi after the Days of Unleavened Bread, and in five days joined them at Troas, where we stayed seven days.

-Why even mention Unleavened Bread, if it was abolished and no longer being observed.

Acts 12:1-4
12 Now about that time Herod the king stretched out his hand to harass some from the church. 2 Then he killed James the brother of John with the sword. 3 And because he saw that it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to seize Peter also. Now it was during the Days of Unleavened Bread. 4 So when he had arrested him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four squads of soldiers to keep him, intending to bring him before the people after Passover.

-Verse 3 shows that they were keeping the Passover and Unleavened bread

Feast of Tabernacles
Acts 18:20-21
20 When they asked him to stay a longer time with them, he did not consent, 21 but took leave of them, saying, “I must by all means keep this coming feast in Jerusalem; but I will return again to you, God willing.” And he sailed from Ephesus.

The Day of Atonement
Acts 27:9-10
9 Now when much time had been spent, and sailing was now dangerous because the Fast was already over, Paul advised them, 10 saying, “Men, I perceive that this voyage will end with disaster and much loss, not only of the cargo and ship, but also our lives.”

-Paul is referring to the Fast on the Day of Atonement. Luke wrote the book of Acts many years after Christ’s death and he referred to the Day of Atonement calling it the “Fast”

So why was Paul still observing all of these Feasts years after Christ death, if they were abolished and no longer needed?

Wouldnt Paul have received the revelations on the road to Damascus, when Jesus revealed himself to him that they were no longer needed?

Yes I mean the same Book of Acts in which we have Cornelius and a jailer from Philippi becoming Christians without becoming Jews. That same book also plainly says gentile are not troubled with the law in chapter 15.

bugkiller

Travis93 · Jul 23, 2016

bugkiller said:
Do you really believe every Christian will live in Israel?

bugkiller

Law keepers will get to live in the new Jerusalem and eat of the tree of life, others will not be allowed in (healing of nations proves there are saved people who live outside), but will at least be healed by the leaves that will flow out of the city on the river of water of life (Revelation 22:1-2, Ezekiel 41:1-12).
Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

EastCoastRemnant · Jul 24, 2016

Travis93 said:
Law keepers will get to live in the new Jerusalem and eat of the tree of life, others will not be allowed in (healing of nations proves there are saved people who live outside), but will at least be healed by the leaves that will flow out of the city on the river of water of life (Revelation 22:1-2, Ezekiel 41:1-12).
Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

I don't think there is a hierarchy of 'saved' people in the new earth as you describe it, imo.

EastCoastRemnant · Jul 24, 2016

Where's all the anti Sabbath/Law commentators to refute this claim of the OP?

disciple1 · Jul 24, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
If NT Christians are under the new covenant that was foretold in Jeremiah of God's laws written in our hearts, then we have to be considered Israel and/or Judah, right? There is no other mention of anyone else receiving this covenant promise. Therefore, as members (symbolically or spiritually) of the tribes of Israel and/or Judah, are we not then subject to the moral Commandments that were given to Israel/Judah?

No.
Hebrews chapter 7

11. If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come--one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?

12. For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.

18. The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless

19. (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
Most people need to study the bible more, I'm studying all I can I do 2 to four hours a day, get a mp3 player you can listen to probably any translation you want, I study the NIV.
Romans chapter 1 verse 28
Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

EastCoastRemnant · Jul 24, 2016

disciple1 said:
No.
Hebrews chapter 7

11. If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come--one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?

12. For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.

18. The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless

19. (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
Most people need to study the bible more, I'm studying all I can I do 2 to four hours a day, get a mp3 player you can listen to probably any translation you want, I study the NIV.
Romans chapter 1 verse 28
Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

So which covenant are you under if it's not the one specified for Israel and Judah? Can you show us scripture that shows another covenant?

disciple1 · Jul 24, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
So which covenant are you under if it's not the one specified for Israel and Judah? Can you show us scripture that shows another covenant?

I believe I will be justified by love.
1 peter chapter 4
8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.
galatians chapter 3 verse 12
The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, "The person who does these things will live by them."
Study the bible though you'll learn all kinds of things, I don't know how much you've studied but it's not enough, I haven't studied enough either.
Matthew 11
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

EastCoastRemnant · Jul 24, 2016

So you're willing to take the risk and ignore the rest of inspired scripture and cling to your Pauline doctrine in the face of the fact that there is no other covenant made with anyone but Israel.... you will be without a covenant with God.

EastCoastRemnant · Jul 24, 2016

What does Jesus say about those that don't have this covenant relationship?

Matthew 7:22-24
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

disciple1 · Jul 24, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
So you're willing to take the risk and ignore the rest of inspired scripture and cling to your Pauline doctrine in the face of the fact that there is no other covenant made with anyone but Israel.... you will be without a covenant with God.

I study the bible 2 to 4 hours a day, and I've come to the understanding no one can obey the law.
If you commit one sin your guilty of every sin including homosexuality and anything else you care to name even if you've never done it.
I've been studying the bible 34 years how about you.
Matthew chapter 25 verses 31-46
When the Son of Man comes" in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. he will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and got visit you? The King will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me. Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.They also will answer, Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you? He will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

EastCoastRemnant · Jul 24, 2016

disciple1 said:
I study the bible 2 to 4 hours a day, and I've come to the understanding no one can obey the law.
If you commit one sin your guilty of every sin including homosexuality and anything else you care to name even if you've never done it.
I've been studying the bible 34 years how about you.
Matthew chapter 25 verses 31-46
When the Son of Man comes" in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. he will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and got visit you? The King will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me. Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.They also will answer, Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you? He will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

So then, Jesus taught us how to be obedient to the Law but didn't make a way for us to do it? What is it that Jesus did that we are not able to do? It's true, we, ourselves, could never hope to keep the Law but you are discounting the Holy Spirit and God's Grace.... the very things that Jesus needed to be obedient.

Travis93 · Jul 24, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
I don't think there is a hierarchy of 'saved' people in the new earth as you describe it, imo.

Well that's just my idea of how to reconcile the end of Revelation. The most wicked people already got thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15, Revelation 21:8), but there's still people on the outside of the holy city who don't keep the commandments, nations that receive healing of the leaves of the tree of life. I think the book of life and Lamb's book of life are two separate books myself. The book of life granting eternal life, and the Lamb's book of life granting entrance to the holy city. It's just a theory of mine.

EastCoastRemnant said:
What does Jesus say about those that don't have this covenant relationship?

Matthew 7:22-24
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

You can see a nice parallel with King David.
Psalms 6:8 Depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity; for the Lord hath heard the voice of my weeping.
Psalms 119:115 Depart from me, ye evildoers: for I will keep the commandments of my God.
Psalms 101:4 A froward heart shall depart from me: I will not know a wicked person.

disciple1 · Jul 24, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
So then, Jesus taught us how to be obedient to the Law but didn't make a way for us to do it? What is it that Jesus did that we are not able to do? It's true, we, ourselves, could never hope to keep the Law but you are discounting the Holy Spirit and God's Grace.... the very things that Jesus needed to be obedient.

Jesus never taught us how to be obedient to the law.
1 John chapter 1 verse 8
If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10
If anyone keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
And Christ is the only one who ever kept the law, and if you try to keep the law you will fail and be guilty of every sin there is, it doesn't matter if you try if you fail, your guilty.
Read these verses it says at the end there will be righteousness for all that believe and Christ is the end of the law.
But you didn't answer my question how much do you study your bible every day, and how long have you been doing it.
Romans chapter 9 verses 30-Romans chapter 10 verse 4
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. As it is written: See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame. Brothers my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are Zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own the did not submit to God's righteousness, Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

EastCoastRemnant · Jul 24, 2016

disciple1 said:
But you didn't answer my question how much do you study your bible every day, and how long have you been doing it.

Been a Christian for 10 years now and our little group gets together every night for study and then spend 3-5 hours on Sabbath. On top, I personally study a few more hours a week depending.

Thing is, righteousness is not the amount of studying you do but how you apply that knowledge. Obedience and surrender is a better indicator of relationship with Christ.

disciple1 · Jul 24, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
Been a Christian for 10 years now and our little group gets together every night for study and then spend 3-5 hours on Sabbath. On top, I personally study a few more hours a week depending.

Thing is, righteousness is not the amount of studying you do but how you apply that knowledge. Obedience and surrender is a better indicator of relationship with Christ.

Ignorant means lack of knowledge.
2 Peter chapter 3 verse 16
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
And you also have a depraved mind if you don't study the bible.
Romans chapter 1 verse 28
Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.
I would study more, maybe go on welfare or just work part time so you can study.
If you study another 20 years and are careful who you listen to you may know the truth as it says here.
John chapter 8 verse 31,32
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, " If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

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