An Index of SDA (Seventh Day Adventist) Errors

Original Happy Camper

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Correct. The Sabbath was and always has been the seventh day as instituted by God in the Torah for the Jewish people as part of the covenant He made with them at Sinai.

Christians are under no obligation to observe the Sabbath because we aren't under the covenant God made with the Jewish people at Sinai, that covenant pointed us to the full reality which is in Christ.


-CryptoLutheran

Indication from your comments above is that the ten commandments were for the Jewish people only as the Sabbath commandment is one of them.

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Ok I will bite. I need you to tell me which laws Jesus was speaking about when he made that above statement.

Example Like the one below is what I would like to see from the Bible, not you opinion or a red herring.

Is hate a sin in your world?
Jesus said:
1 John 3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
Exodus 20:13
Thou shalt not kill.
 
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Original Happy Camper

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How're the edges of your beard by the way?

The above is Red Herring statement:

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(27) Mar the corners of thy beard.—The beard was regarded by the Hebrews and other eastern nations as the greatest ornament of a man, and was as dear to them as life itself. It was the object of salutation (2Samuel 20:9), and the mutilation of it was looked upon as the greatest disgrace and most degrading punishment (2Samuel 10:4; Isaiah 7:20; Ezra 5:1-5, &c.). It was only in seasons of sorrow that the Hebrews neglected their beards; and sometimes, to show how deeply they were afflicted, they covered them up, or even cut them off, or tore them out (2Samuel 19:24; Isaiah 15:2; Jeremiah 41:5, &c.). Because it was so precious a treasure, it was customary among some of the ancients to present to their gods the firstlings of their beards. The prohibition before us alludes to this practice.


I
t was the custom of some heathen nations to cut and trim their beards and hair into particular shapes in honor of some pagan god. The Egyptians, for example, had their hair cut short and in a certain way, so that what remained appeared in the form of a circle surrounding the head (the halo was derived from this). In another instance, a round spot would be shaved off. Both of these forms are indications of sun god worship.

Modern forms of such extremes include: extremely short or even no hair to intimidate (e.g., Nazis, skinheads); strangely cut, colored or spiked hair to intimidate, but also to attract undue attention (e.g., punk rockers, the more recent “Gothic” look, etc.); strangely cut and colored hair at sporting events (a form of idol worship); and many others.

Shaving one’s facial hair and the regular cutting of the hair on one’s head for normal good grooming however, is something totally different and, in fact, should be common practices for Christians. Please read I Corinthians 11:14-15. As with most things, moderation and respect should play the higher role and if in any doubt, “Abstain from all appearance of evil” (I Thes. 5:22).
 
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Original Happy Camper

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I've looked closely, and for the life of me I can't find the trimming of beards as part of the 10 commandments.
I hear this phrase a lot---red herring--somebody care to elaborate?

Red herring
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is about the idiom and the logical fallacy. For the type of preserved food, see kipper. For other uses, see Red herring (disambiguation).

"Herrings kippered by smoking and salting until they turn reddish-brown, i.e. a "red herring". Prior to refrigeration kipper was known for being strongly pungent. In 1807, William Cobbett wrote how he used red herrings to lay a false trail, while traininghunting dogs—an apocryphal story that was probably the origin of the idiom.
A red herring is something that misleads or distracts from a relevant or important issue.[1] It may be either a logical fallacyor a literary device that leads readers or audiences towards a false conclusion. A red herring might be intentionally used, such as in mystery fiction or as part of rhetorical strategies (e.g. in politics), or it could be inadvertently used during argumentation.

The origin of the expression is not known. Conventional wisdom has long supposed it to be the use of a kipper (a strong-smelling smoked fish) to train hounds to follow a scent, or to divert them from the correct route when hunting; however, modern linguistic research suggests that the term was probably invented in 1807 by English polemicist William Cobbett, referring to one occasion on which he had supposedly used a kipper to divert hounds from chasing a hare, and was never an actual practice of hunters. The phrase was later borrowed to provide a formal name for the logical fallacy and literary device."

I used this term in the post because it is the common tactic of people who cannot answer a question that may not support their predisposed position.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I've looked closely, and for the life of me I can't find the trimming of beards as part of the 10 commandments.
I hear this phrase a lot---red herring--somebody care to elaborate?

The Decalogue aren't the only mitzvot which God commanded, God gave 613 mitzvot to Israel. Leviticus 19:17 is no less God's Law than Exodus 20:8, both are commandments given by God to His people and were to be observed by the people of God faithfully and obediently.

When someone says that a Christian must obey the Torah and therefore observe the Shabbat but then says Christians don't have to observe the rest of God's holy mitzvot they are engaging in explicit hypocrisy.

As such, it's not a red herring as Camper suggests; it's relevant--you don't get to say we must observe some of God's mitzvot but not others. If Christians are to observe Torah, then that means all of Torah, not just the parts someone arbitrarily likes because it makes them feel superior to their fellow Christians.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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mmksparbud

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Red herring
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is about the idiom and the logical fallacy. For the type of preserved food, see kipper. For other uses, see Red herring (disambiguation).

"Herrings kippered by smoking and salting until they turn reddish-brown, i.e. a "red herring". Prior to refrigeration kipper was known for being strongly pungent. In 1807, William Cobbett wrote how he used red herrings to lay a false trail, while traininghunting dogs—an apocryphal story that was probably the origin of the idiom.
A red herring is something that misleads or distracts from a relevant or important issue.[1] It may be either a logical fallacyor a literary device that leads readers or audiences towards a false conclusion. A red herring might be intentionally used, such as in mystery fiction or as part of rhetorical strategies (e.g. in politics), or it could be inadvertently used during argumentation.

The origin of the expression is not known. Conventional wisdom has long supposed it to be the use of a kipper (a strong-smelling smoked fish) to train hounds to follow a scent, or to divert them from the correct route when hunting; however, modern linguistic research suggests that the term was probably invented in 1807 by English polemicist William Cobbett, referring to one occasion on which he had supposedly used a kipper to divert hounds from chasing a hare, and was never an actual practice of hunters. The phrase was later borrowed to provide a formal name for the logical fallacy and literary device."

I used this term in the post because it is the common tactic of people who cannot answer a question that may not support their predisposed position.


Thanks---sounds disgusting.
 
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mmksparbud

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The Decalogue aren't the only mitzvot which God commanded, God gave 613 mitzvot to Israel. Leviticus 19:17 is no less God's Law than Exodus 20:8, both are commandments given by God to His people and were to be observed by the people of God faithfully and obediently.

When someone says that a Christian must obey the Torah and therefore observe the Shabbat but then says Christians don't have to observe the rest of God's holy mitzvot they are engaging in explicit hypocrisy.

As such, it's not a red herring as Camper suggests; it's relevant--you don't get to say we must observe some of God's mitzvot but not others. If Christians are to observe Torah, then that means all of Torah, not just the parts someone arbitrarily likes because it makes them feel superior to their fellow Christians.

-CryptoLutheran

Sorry, but the 10 commandments are the only ones that were in the ark, the only ones written by the hand of God Himself, the only ones that Moses broke when he found the Israelites singing and dancing and had to be done all over again. The rest have to do with the Levitical priesthood and are no longer relevant--they were nailed to the cross, done away with --so that they have to be followed now is----A red herring????
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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Red herring
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is about the idiom and the logical fallacy. For the type of preserved food, see kipper. For other uses, see Red herring (disambiguation).

"Herrings kippered by smoking and salting until they turn reddish-brown, i.e. a "red herring". Prior to refrigeration kipper was known for being strongly pungent. In 1807, William Cobbett wrote how he used red herrings to lay a false trail, while traininghunting dogs—an apocryphal story that was probably the origin of the idiom.
A red herring is something that misleads or distracts from a relevant or important issue.[1] It may be either a logical fallacyor a literary device that leads readers or audiences towards a false conclusion. A red herring might be intentionally used, such as in mystery fiction or as part of rhetorical strategies (e.g. in politics), or it could be inadvertently used during argumentation.

The origin of the expression is not known. Conventional wisdom has long supposed it to be the use of a kipper (a strong-smelling smoked fish) to train hounds to follow a scent, or to divert them from the correct route when hunting; however, modern linguistic research suggests that the term was probably invented in 1807 by English polemicist William Cobbett, referring to one occasion on which he had supposedly used a kipper to divert hounds from chasing a hare, and was never an actual practice of hunters. The phrase was later borrowed to provide a formal name for the logical fallacy and literary device."

I used this term in the post because it is the common tactic of people who cannot answer a question that may not support their predisposed position.

The accusation of Red Herring is also used to by those who have no real counter to a debate. You were answered, and answered again. My perception is that the SDA Church is legalistic and works based; whereas Traditional Liturgical Churches emphasize grace through the Holy Spirit where obedience is the fruit of faith, not a means of grace.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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Sorry, but the 10 commandments are the only ones that were in the ark, the only ones written by the hand of God Himself, the only ones that Moses broke when he found the Israelites singing and dancing and had to be done all over again. The rest have to do with the Levitical priesthood and are no longer relevant--they were nailed to the cross, done away with --so that they have to be followed now is----A red herring????

So, the rest of Scripture is "bunk"?
 
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ViaCrucis

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Sorry, but the 10 commandments are the only ones that were in the ark, the only ones written by the hand of God Himself, the only ones that Moses broke when he found the Israelites singing and dancing and had to be done all over again. The rest have to do with the Levitical priesthood and are no longer relevant--they were nailed to the cross, done away with --so that they have to be followed now is----A red herring????

That the stone tablets were in the ark or that were emblazoned on stone by God Himself doesn't change the fact that all of the commandments were given by God.

Also, I imagine you don't really believe the other 603 mitzvot don't matter any more. Leviticus 18:7 Leviticus 18:23

-CryptoLutheran
 
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mmksparbud

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The accusation of Red Herring is also used to by those who have no real counter to a debate. You were answered, and answered again. My perception is that the SDA Church is legalistic and works based; whereas Traditional Liturgical Churches emphasize grace through the Holy Spirit where obedience is the fruit of faith, not a means of grace.


Really?? Imagine that --that is what we teach--obedience comes from love for God, No one has ever said that keeping any of the commandments will save you---however, not keeping them, can keep you out. When you love God and put Him first--the rest is automatic. I stay faithful to my husband 'cause I love him--not cause I have to. You can keep the Sabbath till hell freezes over--won't get you in. You do not kill out of love for God and man--however, if you do, no unrepentant sinner gets in
Rev_22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
 
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mmksparbud

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That the stone tablets were in the ark or that were emblazoned on stone by God Himself doesn't change the fact that all of the commandments were given by God.

Also, I imagine you don't really believe the other 603 mitzvot don't matter any more. Leviticus 18:7 Leviticus 18:23

-CryptoLutheran


The only ones that were mentioned by Jesus, H never even vaguely hinted at the other 603
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

----and please don't tell me that what God writes with His own hand is not important, that is just plain silly---why do people ask for autographs, why are books autographed, why are handwritten manuscripts valued more highly than those not handwritten?--Get real. I can guarantee you that if those tablets were found----their value would be beyond measure and the line to view them would encompass the earth.
 
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mmksparbud

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I think legalism is a red herring used by the devil to distract the faithful from God's grace.


And I think the term legalism is used by many to cover up their own misdeeds so they do not have to overcome anything and inconvenience themselves---0but that's just my opinion. Wht mstters is God's opinion.

1Jn_5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jn_5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Rev_2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Rev_2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Rev_2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
Rev_2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev_3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev_21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
 
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ViaCrucis

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The only ones that were mentioned by Jesus, H never even vaguely hinted at the other 603
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

----and please don't tell me that what God writes with His own hand is not important, that is just plain silly---why do people ask for autographs, why are books autographed, why are handwritten manuscripts valued more highly than those not handwritten?--Get real. I can guarantee you that if those tablets were found----their value would be beyond measure and the line to view them would encompass the earth.

What you're not addressing is that God gave all of His commandments to Israel, and He expected them to observe them all. He never once said "These ten are more important than the rest", that's simply not in Scripture.

My point is quite straightforward: God gave all of His commandments, not just ten. Simply choosing the ten arbitrarily as the only ones that matter and are still to be observed has precisely zero biblical basis.

Either the Torah is to be observed by Christians or not. God's Torah is not a pick-and-choose your own commandments buffet.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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mmksparbud

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What you're not getting is that even Jesus did not mention the other 603 -- Just the 10---They were all important, but the 603 were part of the Levitical system, the 10 are not, and the 10 were the only ones in the ark, not the rest.
 
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Original Happy Camper

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What you're not addressing is that God gave all of His commandments to Israel, and He expected them to observe them all. He never once said "These ten are more important than the rest", that's simply not in Scripture.

My point is quite straightforward: God gave all of His commandments, not just ten. Simply choosing the ten arbitrarily as the only ones that matter and are still to be observed has precisely zero biblical basis.

Either the Torah is to be observed by Christians or not. God's Torah is not a pick-and-choose your own commandments buffet.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Original Happy Camper

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What you're not addressing is that God gave all of His commandments to Israel, and He expected them to observe them all. He never once said "These ten are more important than the rest", that's simply not in Scripture.

My point is quite straightforward: God gave all of His commandments, not just ten. Simply choosing the ten arbitrarily as the only ones that matter and are still to be observed has precisely zero biblical basis.

Either the Torah is to be observed by Christians or not. God's Torah is not a pick-and-choose your own commandments buffet.

-CryptoLutheran

You appear to pick and choose which commandments you will keep. You, I presume, do not murder, steal, covet ect. But you deny the explicated commandment of the Sabbath of the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is our example, if we profess to be followers of Jesus then we should emulate him.
Luke 4:16
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Or do we pick and choose which of his attributes we want to emulate?
 
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Original Happy Camper

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Ten Commandments in the new testament
In any case, the following New Testament scriptures listed after each of the Ten Commandments, confirm either explicitly or by example, that Jesus and the apostles viewed all the Ten Commandments as a necessary part of Christian living. Note also that all the Ten Commandments, which of course includes the Sabbath, can be found in the New Testament after the cross.

Jesus states in Matthew 24:20, “And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.” Jesus is therefore saying that the Sabbath will be kept subsequent to His death. And Luke 23:56 states that when the body of Christ was being prepared, “they rested the Sabbath day according to the Commandment.” and this was after the New Covenant begun.
 
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You appear to pick and choose which commandments you will keep. You, I presume, do not murder, steal, covet ect.

Was it a sin for Cain to murder Abel? If you answer yes then murder is wrong not because it was given in the Torah, but because murder is straight up always wrong. God didn't give the Torah until Sinai.

But you deny the explicated commandment of the Sabbath of the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is our example, if we profess to be followers of Jesus then we should emulate him.
Luke 4:16
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Jesus also observed all of God's 613 mitzvot, because our Lord Jesus was an observant Jew.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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