Homosexuality and the Catholic Church

Cosmic Charlie said:

So it's "special" if the gay people actually get the rights that everyone else has ?

This this is loving the sinner and hating the sin ?

....and I never said any of that stuff above.

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They are just like us all, Charlie, free to sin if that's their choice. That ultimately will bind them the same way it does us. But as far as marriage goes, if they want the civil legal union, fine but it will never, no matter how many laws you pass, be a marriage. It won't be holy and it won't be sacred.

LivingWordUnity said:

That could be interpreted as confessing one's sins to a priest in a confessional.

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Make sure you remember to mention it next time if that's how you interpret this statement.

pdudgeon said:

ok, got 2 question for you, then.
if it's Pope Francis saying this in his official capacity, is he singling out Catholics for these appologies?
If he is, do the Protestants get off scot free on this deal because he has no authority over them? his above quote sounds rather mixed on this deal.

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The answer to both is, he's talking to me an he's talking to you. Protestants have plenty of their own issues to take up with God. Let's worry about us, those who have been blessed with the fullness of truth. Because much has been given to us, we must be better than everyone else.

LivingWordUnity said:

So-called "same-sex marriage" is not real marriage. Therefore, it's not a real right.

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...and if we oppose it in equal measure to other non-marriages, we're not a real bigots.

LivingWordUnity said:

So-called "same-sex marriage" is not real marriage. Therefore, it's not a real right.

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benedictaoo said:

They are just like us all, Charlie, free to sin if that's their choice. That ultimately will bind them the same way it does us. But as far as marriage goes, if they want the civil legal union, fine but it will never, no matter how many laws you pass, be a marriage. It won't be holy and it won't be sacred.

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I can't seem to get the through people's head but I'll try one more time:

A civil marriage is a civil union.

A Catholic marriage is a sacrament.

While you can protest all you want that a civil marriage require the form of a Catholic marriage it just isn't so.

When married by a priest in the Catholic church two things happen: The sacrament of marriage occurs and so does the civil marriage, the priest being a recognized official of civil marriage by the state.

I have been to more than one marriage ceremony in my life where the person performing the marriage was not a recognized civil official. These couples consider themselves married in their various religions but still have to go before a civil official to gain the rights of civil marriage.

You really need to break these two concepts apart in your head because this is what is going on.

No one is asking any church to recognize a same sex marriage as a marriage in the belief system but from a legal and civil point of view they are, in fact, civilly married.

Cosmic Charlie said:

I can't seem to get the through people's head but I'll try one more time:

A civil marriage is a civil union.

A Catholic marriage is a sacrament.

While you can protest all you want that a civil marriage require the form of a Catholic marriage it just isn't so.

When married by a priest in the Catholic church two things happen: The sacrament of marriage occurs and so does the civil marriage, the priest being a recognized official of civil marriage by the state.

I have been to more than one marriage ceremony in my life where the person performing the marriage was not a recognized civil official. These couples consider themselves married in their various religions but still have to go before a civil official to gain the rights of civil marriage.

You really need to break these two concepts apart in your head because this is what is going on.

No one is asking any church to recognize a same sex marriage as a marriage in the belief system but from a legal and civil point of view they are, in fact, civilly married.

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And I do CC, I do break them apart. Just don't call it holy matrimony.

Hi, I'm late to the party.

LWU, I'm afraid that I am in an odd situation - I'm in a very rural area and my internet cannot load videos because of connectivity issues. I can load text and small images, which takes a few minutes, but not large images and no videos (even short ones). Nonetheless, I would like to participate in this conversation.

Would anyone be willing to PM me a summary of the video? For example, what does this individual say about homosexuality that is unique or different to Catholic teaching? Or does he merely reaffirm Catholic teaching? What is different about this video vs reading the catechism?

Hey Gwen its been like forever...

benedictaoo said:

Hey Gwen its been like forever...

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Hi

David told me about a thread Michie made about disordered love, so I came to check that out and decided to browse the forum a bit.

I've come back to Catholicism and am doing my best to practise. (I fail to make it to Mass a lot due to anxiety disorder issues.) One important thing that helps me stay practising is socialising and discussing Catholic things with other Catholics, online or otherwise. (usually online.) So here I am

Welcome back. I had no idea you left. You're in Canada right? I remember you speaking about anxiety disorder. I hope you're better.

LivingWordUnity said:

The Church already did and does oppose other kinds of non-marriages. My experience of getting a civil "marriage" to a divorcee and then getting an annulment through the Church after is an example. I mentioned this before. So it's simply a lie when people say that the Church is singling out homosexuals on this. And those who are trying to get the Church to change her teachings on divorce and remarriage are the same liberals who are fighting for so-called "same-sex marriage".

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I said "we", not the Church. The Church is doing just fine. An awful lot of Catholics are not and have not been. That's why we owe homosexuals an apology.

LivingWordUnity said:

Hi Gwendolyn, welcome back. Jason Evert is 100% in agreement with the Catholic Church's teaching on this. The difference between listening to him and reading the Catechism is that he discusses it in an informal way. This is good because not everyone learns in the same way. And he cites some recent scientific studies that add to the case for the Catholic position. I think it wouldn't do justice to the case he makes if someone tried to summarize what he's saying. Is there a public computer somewhere near you that has a good connection speed?

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Thanks LWU, I would like to hear about those studies. I should be back in civilisation tomorrow and might be able to watch the video then.

Cosmic Charlie said:

I haven't even seen the vid.

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Have you seen it yet?

pdudgeon said:

In short we want them to feel special, to have full access to everything everyone else has, and we don't want them to feel guilty for doing so. And we'll forget that God ever said anything different.
I think that's what you missed.

Oh, and of course we apologize for ever thinking that they were in sin.

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One of the old spiritual works of mercy was to admonish the sinner. Now not so much.

pdudgeon said:

did you miss something.....yep, you missed the liberal version of the above, which says we want them to be a full part of our church, we want them to be able to marry, have families, socialize and protest all they want to.
we want them to be priests and nuns with access to all our kids, just like all the other priests and nuns.
In short we want them to feel special, to have full access to everything everyone else has, and we don't want them to feel guilty for doing so. And we'll forget that God ever said anything different.
I think that's what you missed.

Oh, and of course we appologize for ever thinking that they were in sin.

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pd the end times are coming fast .I can understand apologising to the poor ,the blacks ,the women ,but to gays ,never . But then as I said .

I have to add in all honesty that I think that the only way to 'change ' is through the words of Jesus ,and discussing together what that means . The Church loses people , because while dictating the 'catechism' might have been almost enough many years ago, (it was never really enough for the more advanced souls ) engaging with people as the woman in the Video explains, is the only way to keep the questioning person on board .
The terrible thing is that the average priest is not nearly as well aquainted with the bible, and real life, as is neccessary for this challenge .
While I am not for apologising to specific groups so much as a general repentance for errors made ,I think it is possible that the RCC has lost many people of a certain age ,when they began to ask questions (which is part of relating and engaging with others ,and so is not only intellectual ,but communal) .
There are two main kinds of homosexuals it seems to me, (many sub categories of course ). One is the questioning rebel ,and the other the carnal lower sensate type . The first is the one that the Church has lost because of her attitude to learning and developing : the other is created within a rich worldly Church, and is the one that is comfortably installed there , and wished No change .