Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the churches!

-57

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I am not the author of God's Word. God is the author. I mean, stop and think for a moment. How can a name be blotted out of the book of life if one's name cannot be removed from the book of life?

...

Where does the bible say a believers name can be blotted out of the book of life?

What you have done...and maybe didn't even realize it.... is you took a promise and turned it into a threat. The promise is this, the Christians name won't be blotted out. There is no delete button.
 
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samir

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yo-yo theology.

Does Dramamine ease the dizziness?

It's disrespectful to refer to God's word as yo-yo theology.


Uh, that's THE reason we sin. Not "many", but all of us.

No. Some sin because they love their sin more than God.
 
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samir

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Poor you...I hope when you die you die on a good cycle.

Not necessary. As long as I love God and have not turned away from Him I will be saved even if I have sinned.

As for me...ALL...of my sins were imputed to Christ Jesus at the cross.

So you now have a license to sin. That is NOT what scripture teaches!
 
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-57

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Not necessary. As long as I love God and have not turned away from Him I will be saved even if I have sinned.



So you now have a license to sin. That is NOT what scripture teaches!

License to sin? Really? You actually are trying to use that line or reasoning? OSAS believers think they have a license to sin?
 
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samir

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License to sin? Really? You actually are trying to use that line or reasoning? OSAS believers think they have a license to sin?

Yes. No matter how much you sin or how great the sins you commit your salvation is guaranteed. Is that not what you believe?
 
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-57

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-57: Where does the bible say a believers name can be blotted out of the book of life?.

Exodus 32
Psalm 69
Revelation 3
Revelation 22

Exodus 32...
31So Moses went back to the Lord and said, “Oh, what a great sin these people have committed! They have made themselves gods of gold. 32But now, please forgive their sin—but if not, then blot me out of the book you have written.”

33The Lord replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book. 34Now go, lead the people to the place I spoke of, and my angel will go before you. However, when the time comes for me to punish, I will punish them for their sin.”

Here's your problem...the verse says..."Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book." Guess what. You have sinned against God...which means your name has been blotted out. That is if you want to continue to take that verse out of context. Which I assume you don't.
In this instance the blotting out means physical death or the punishment mentionesd in verse 34 that God would do to them.

One way we can know this is by what God did to them
35And the Lord struck the people with a plague because of what they did with the calf Aaron had made.

Psalm 69...
Psalm 69:28 May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.

Who was being talked about here? Back up several verses to learn who.

19You know how I am scorned, disgraced and shamed; all my enemies are before you.

It is the enemies...not the believers.

Rev 3...
Rev 3:4Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

This verse is a promise and you too have also turned it into a threat from Jesus. The promise is this, the Christians (overcomers) name won't be blotted out. There is no delete button.

Verse 5 talks about those that have overcome. The believers. It says they, the overcomers will not be blotted out.

John also tells us who the overcomers are....

1st John 2:13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, children, because you know the Father.

Rev 22:
Rev 22:18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Once again this verse is not about the believers. A believer won't add to or take away from the book. There is no need to tamper with it. On the other hand there are those who profess to be Christians and who want to think that their names are in the Book of Life. Typically groups that need to change the bible are cults...passing off a false belief.
 
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-57

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Yes. No matter how much you sin or how great the sins you commit your salvation is guaranteed. Is that not what you believe?

Because James Bond 007 is licensed to kill....does he run around killing people because he can?

Do you see just how silly your argument is?
 
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-57: Where does the bible say a believers name can be blotted out of the book of life?.


Exodus 32...
31So Moses went back to the Lord and said, “Oh, what a great sin these people have committed! They have made themselves gods of gold. 32But now, please forgive their sin—but if not, then blot me out of the book you have written.”

33The Lord replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book. 34Now go, lead the people to the place I spoke of, and my angel will go before you. However, when the time comes for me to punish, I will punish them for their sin.”

Here's your problem...the verse says..."Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book." Guess what. You have sinned against God...which means your name has been blotted out. That is if you want to continue to take that verse out of context. Which I assume you don't.
In this instance the blotting out means physical death or the punishment mentionesd in verse 34 that God would do to them.

One way we can know this is by what God did to them
35And the Lord struck the people with a plague because of what they did with the calf Aaron had made.

Psalm 69...
Psalm 69:28 May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.

Who was being talked about here? Back up several verses to learn who.

19You know how I am scorned, disgraced and shamed; all my enemies are before you.

It is the enemies...not the believers.

Rev 3...
Rev 3:4Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

This verse is a promise and you too have also turned it into a threat from Jesus. The promise is this, the Christians (overcomers) name won't be blotted out. There is no delete button.

Verse 5 talks about those that have overcome. The believers. It says they, the overcomers will not be blotted out.

John also tells us who the overcomers are....

1st John 2:13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, children, because you know the Father.

Rev 22:
Rev 22:18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Once again this verse is not about the believers. A believer won't add to or take away from the book. There is no need to tamper with it. On the other hand there are those who profess to be Christians and who want to think that their names are in the Book of Life. Typically groups that need to change the bible are cults...passing off a false belief.



I can't help it but have to ask you this stupid question.

If as you say unbelievers names will be blotted out of the book of life. ......not believers, that.....


My question,...

How did the names of unbelievers get into the book of life?

Are not unbelievers dead in God's sight?


.
 
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FreeGrace2

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But while sin can be a mistake, it is not on the same level of a mistake as say messing up in a chess game.
This isn't about "levels". Your problem is equating knowing that sin will occur with planning on sinning. That is wrong. As i showed.

The analogy is flawed because it seeks to miminize sin.
In your mind only. Knowing I'm not perfect and knowing that sin will occur in NO WAY minimizes sin. It's simply an awareness of what the Bible teaches.

Sin is very serious to God and He does not take it lightly if anyone does sin.
You keep repeating this as if no one else knows this. Why? We ALL know this.

God is holy just and righteous. A person having a mere belief alone is not going to cut it.
Uh, cut what?

For when does a belief alone help you?
Believing in Christ results in saving me from hell.

Can you pay your bills with a belief alone?
Not even close to relevant.

Can you be married to the woman of your dreams with a belief alone?
Ditto.

Can you have a perfectly chiseled body with a belief alone?
Ditto.

Salvation includes both faith and works.
The Bible totally disagrees with your opinion.

"8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast." Eph 2

I still do not know HOW your view can get around this.

Our salvation is by grace, meaning we cannot earn it.
Our salvation is through faith, which is non-meritorious.
Our salvation is not by works.

Your view is quite different: saved by faith plus works.

For works are an outflow of one's faith.
OK. But works do not save anyone. The Bible makes that clear.

I said this:
""Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obeywhether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?" Rom 6:16"
I do not know how you think this helps your belief, but it actually proves the Biblical Conditional View and not Eternal Security.
Paul says you have a choice here. A person can be a slave to sin or they can be a slave to righteousness. Christians are slaves to righteousness (Which leads to eternal life) and Christians are not slaves to sin. Paul says sin shall not have dominion over you. If a believer goes back to being a slave to sin, they are going to face death (and they would not be considered a faithful believer in the Lord). For the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness.
What is misunderstood is this verse is about the struggle between natures in the Christian. When a believer presents himself to obey sin, the result is death of fellowship. (I know you either don't understand anything about fellowship, or have just rejected the whole concept). But it's true nonetheless. But when a believer presents himself to obedience (of God's Word), the result is righteousness. This refers to spiritual growth, or progressive sanctification.

Yes, sin can reign in a believer's body. But what happens as a result if they do continue in that way?
I will tell you, they will face death and not life. For this is the analogy Paul makes.
Not eternal death, as you wrongly assume, but separation from God from fellowship.

As for grieving the Spirit: What will happen if you continue to grieve the Spirit? Surely nothing good.
Correct. But NOT loss of salvation.

For if a man speaks bad words against the Holy Spirit it will not be forgiven in this life or the next one (i.e. the Millennium)....
Please check out the actual context for that concept. It was only applicable during Jesus' time on earth and only for 1 specific blasphemy. It has nothing to do with anyone today.
 
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Just stating your opinion about your belief here does not mean you are right. I mean, do you ever wonder why you can't make a parable out of Eternal Security? Why do so many plainly written verses or words have to be distorted to say something else in order to fit OSAS?

For in Eternal Security,

"Faith is dead" (from having no works) does not mean "faith is dead."

"Fear" does not mean "fear."

"Save your soul" does not mean "save your soul."...
All of this is nonsense.

The word "dead" (nekros) is used as metaphorically for " inactive as respects doing right".

In James 2:20, James used the word argon which is translated as "dead" in some translations, and "barren" in other translations.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Peace be with you.

Let's break down believe to more simple terms.

God says, "You believe me, you're saved."

God says, "You don't believe me, you're damned."

God says, "To believe me, you need to believe my 10 points of instructions."

If a person believes only 9 points, does the person believe God?

If a person believes only 9 points, does the person not believe God?

God bless you.
Unless one can show from Scripture that God EVER said ANYTHING about "10 points of instructions" in order to believe Me, this is totally irrelevant and unbiblical.
 
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FreeGrace2

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I looking through the script a bit, but can't find the idea of OSAS , unless I take a few small

snippets from the script, and I could build my house on that.

That be kind of like reading only 1 Corinthians 14,.....Make love your aim.....and not read the rest of
the script...
And when God hold your life in front of you and points out , adultery, fornication, sexual immorality, etc

I can just see your answer now,.....
But Lord, it is written right in the script.........make love your aim.....

Matthew 25, 31-46.... probably does a better job then I did here to bring the point across.

Both groups addressed in the passage, called the Son of Man.....Lord.



But I have found "eternal security" in the script, very clear too, leaves no doubts in my mind.

Actually it is found in the same passage mentioned earlier Matthew 25, 31-46...

I will just quote a little snippet of it.....

Then HE will answer them,..

Truly, I say to you, as you DID it NOT to one of the least of these, you DID it NOT to Me?

And they will go away into ETERNAL punishment,

but the righteous into ETERNAL LIFE.



There is your eternal security, either one or the other, but it is ETERNAL.


And reading the snippet of text, the One that spoke those words, mentioned something

about proper works.


Makes one ponder the idea that belief only might just not do it....


May God open our eyes to see.
1. Do you believe that the gifts of God are irrevocable? Rom 11:29 - for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

2. Do you believe that eternal life is a gift of God? Rom 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If one answers "yes" to the 2 questions, then HOW in the world can one even think that salvation can be lost??
 
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I am not the author of God's Word. God is the author. I mean, stop and think for a moment. How can a name be blotted out of the book of life if one's name cannot be removed from the book of life?
...
The phrase is a litotes. Do some research.
 
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I can't help it but have to ask you this stupid question.

If as you say unbelievers names will be blotted out of the book of life. ......not believers, that.....


My question,...

How did the names of unbelievers get into the book of life?

Are not unbelievers dead in God's sight?


.
Right here.

Secondly....are you referring to the book of life or the book of the living?

What is the Book of Life?

Is it possible for a person's name to be erased from the Book of Life?

I provided you with several links because you seem to be over your head on this issue...that is only getting your info from cut and paste pages.

A second thing you should do is go to bible hub and look up those verses....then go to the commentary section and read up. I think what you learn will surprise you. I spent a lot of time preparing my last post for you...with the hopes you might edify yourself a little bit...but apparently with this new post of yours....none of it sunk in.
So, you can click on the links and learn...but I'm not going to spend a lot of time on the subject with you as you really don't seem to want to understand.
 
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Right here.

Secondly....are you referring to the book of life or the book of the living?

What is the Book of Life?

Is it possible for a person's name to be erased from the Book of Life?

I provided you with several links because you seem to be over your head on this issue...that is only getting your info from cut and paste pages.

A second thing you should do is go to bible hub and look up those verses....then go to the commentary section and read up. I think what you learn will surprise you. I spent a lot of time preparing my last post for you...with the hopes you might edify yourself a little bit...but apparently with this new post of yours....none of it sunk in.
So, you can click on the links and learn...but I'm not going to spend a lot of time on the subject with you as you really don't seem to want to understand.


At least now I know where you get your understanding. ...

Biblehub, and it's commentators, as what your posting is for the most part exactly
What they putting forth.

Sorry as far as cutting and pasting, don't do any of that, and certainly do not get my
belief and understanding from the internet, like it seems most do.


Coming back to the book of life, are those in it real believers, that have life?

Or does the book of life include not real christians, that never had life?



Revelation 22
If ANY man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy,

GOD shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy vity, and from the things

that are written in this book.


Revelation 21, speaks about the Holy city , and it ends with...

And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or
maketh a lie, but they which are written in the Lamb's book of Life.

According to Revelation 21 , 8 unbelievers will not enter.


Yet you want to make us believe that unbelievers will be blotted out of the book of life,

Unbelievers are not in the book of life and neither in the holy city.....


Yet I reads...
And if ANY man shall take away from the words of the book of prophecy,

GOD shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city......



What concerns me most here, with some of you is, that you may be found to take away from the words

of the book of this prophecy and are changing it to say something that it does not say.

If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this

book.


If we add or take away from this book..........

Would adding our own human understanding violate this command with its consequences?


May God have mercy on us all.
 
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-57: Where does the bible say a believers name can be blotted out of the book of life?.


Exodus 32...
31So Moses went back to the Lord and said, “Oh, what a great sin these people have committed! They have made themselves gods of gold. 32But now, please forgive their sin—but if not, then blot me out of the book you have written.”

33The Lord replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book. 34Now go, lead the people to the place I spoke of, and my angel will go before you. However, when the time comes for me to punish, I will punish them for their sin.”

Here's your problem...the verse says..."Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book." Guess what. You have sinned against God...which means your name has been blotted out. That is if you want to continue to take that verse out of context. Which I assume you don't.
In this instance the blotting out means physical death or the punishment mentionesd in verse 34 that God would do to them.

One way we can know this is by what God did to them
35And the Lord struck the people with a plague because of what they did with the calf Aaron had made.

Psalm 69...
Psalm 69:28 May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.

Who was being talked about here? Back up several verses to learn who.

19You know how I am scorned, disgraced and shamed; all my enemies are before you.

It is the enemies...not the believers.

Rev 3...
Rev 3:4Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

This verse is a promise and you too have also turned it into a threat from Jesus. The promise is this, the Christians (overcomers) name won't be blotted out. There is no delete button.

Verse 5 talks about those that have overcome. The believers. It says they, the overcomers will not be blotted out.

John also tells us who the overcomers are....

1st John 2:13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, children, because you know the Father.

Rev 22:
Rev 22:18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Once again this verse is not about the believers. A believer won't add to or take away from the book. There is no need to tamper with it. On the other hand there are those who profess to be Christians and who want to think that their names are in the Book of Life. Typically groups that need to change the bible are cults...passing off a false belief.

Revelation 22 does not indulge the fantasies of an individual's false thinking that they are saved. When a person's name is taken out of the book of life for taking away words within the prophecy of God's Word, the Lord is actually taking away their name out of the book of life.

As for the overcomers in 1 John 2:13, this is in context to 1 John 2:3-6.

They are overcomers in the sense that they know him because they keep God's Commandments. This is how one is an overcomer.

As for walking with Christ in garments that are white (with their garments not defiled) in Revelation 3:

To understand what this is saying: What does the "Wedding Garment" represent in the "Parable of the Wedding Banquet"?

Well, in Revelation 19:7-8, we learn that the clothes (Wedding Garment) or the fine linen that the bride (the church) wears for the Lamb speaks of the righteousness of the saints.

Revelation 19:7-8
"...for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints."

1 John 3:7 says,
“Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.”

This plays beautifully with the Parable of the Wedding Banquet in Matthew 22. Those Gentile believers who did not have on a wedding garment (i.e. They did not live righteously) were bound hand and foot and cast into outer darkness. These are Gentile believers because the original group (the Jews) that slayed his servants (the prophets) were killed by the King whereby he was then forced to invite others in the highways, ect (i.e. the rest of the world, the Gentiles.

For we (Gentiles) are told to continue in God's goodness or we will be cut off just like the Jews (Romans 11:22). Also see Matthew 13:41-42.

As for Exodus 32:
God's people had become God's enemies because of their sin in going after a false god. Also compare Deuteronomy 31:6 with Deuteronomy 31:16-17 and hopefully you should get the idea. For in verse 6 - God says He will not forsake his people but in verses 16-17 it says He will forsake them.


...
 
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Revelation 22 does not indulge the fantasies of an individual's false thinking that they are saved. When a person's name is taken out of the book of life for taking away words within the prophecy of God's Word, the Lord is actually taking away their name out of the book of life.

As for the overcomers in 1 John 2:13, this is in context to 1 John 2:3-6.

They are overcomers in the sense that they know him because they keep God's Commandments. This is how one is an overcomer.

As for walking with Christ in garments that are white (with their garments not defiled) in Revelation 3:

To understand what this is saying: What does the "Wedding Garment" represent in the "Parable of the Wedding Banquet"?

Well, in Revelation 19:7-8, we learn that the clothes (Wedding Garment) or the fine linen that the bride (the church) wears for the Lamb speaks of the righteousness of the saints.

Revelation 19:7-8
"...for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints."

1 John 3:7 says,
“Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.”

This plays beautifully with the Parable of the Wedding Banquet in Matthew 22. Those Gentile believers who did not have on a wedding garment (i.e. They did not live righteously) were bound hand and foot and cast into outer darkness. These are Gentile believers because the original group (the Jews) that slayed his servants (the prophets) were killed by the King whereby he was then forced to invite others in the highways, ect (i.e. the rest of the world, the Gentiles.

For we (Gentiles) are told to continue in God's goodness or we will be cut off just like the Jews (Romans 11:22). Also see Matthew 13:41-42.

As for Exodus 32:
God's people had become God's enemies because of their sin in going after a false god. Also compare Deuteronomy 31:6 with Deuteronomy 31:16-17 and hopefully you should get the idea. For in verse 6 - God says He will not forsake his people but in verses 16-17 it says He will forsake them.


...

As I said before...if you want to believe you can lose your salvation...have at it.
 
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As I said before...if you want to believe you can lose your salvation...have at it.

Well, I only believe that one can forfeit their salvation (i.e. The King's good favor) because God's Word and real life teaches such a truth.

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