Police Shoot/Kill CCW Holder After Instructing Him to Produce License/Registration

Ana the Ist said:

Why?

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Why what? Why do I think the government should not kill people? Mostly because I don't want to be killed and working for the government I am aware of just how callus it can be when people get caught up in the bureaucracy.

Belk said:

Why what? Why do I think the government should not kill people? Mostly because I don't want to be killed and working for the government I am aware of just how callus it can be when people get caught up in the bureaucracy.

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No no no...why do you expect perfection of this one occupation? Wouldn't you expect there to be mistakes?

"It most certainly shouldn't happen to innocent people."

Ana the Ist said:

No no no...why do you expect perfection of this one occupation? Wouldn't you expect there to be mistakes?

"It most certainly shouldn't happen to innocent people."

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I don't expect perfection. I do expect accountability and I expect steps to be taken to attempt to reduce the number mistakes that are made. It seems to me the bar is set a bit low currently. I don't know where you live but here in Washington state the standard for prosecuting an officer is criminal intent. Prosecution have to believe they can prove that an officer intended to break the law before they go to trial.

By comparison:
It seems that every time researchers estimate how often a medical mistake contributes to a hospital patient's death, the numbers come out worse.

In 1999, the Institute of Medicine published the famous "To Err Is Human" report, which dropped a bombshell on the medical community by reporting that up to 98,000 people a year die because of mistakes in hospitals. The number was initially disputed, but is now widely accepted by doctors and hospital officials — and quoted ubiquitously in the media.
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...ny-die-from-medical-mistakes-in-u-s-hospitals
Bet people expect perfection from their physicians.....

civilwarbuff said:

By comparison:
It seems that every time researchers estimate how often a medical mistake contributes to a hospital patient's death, the numbers come out worse.

In 1999, the Institute of Medicine published the famous "To Err Is Human" report, which dropped a bombshell on the medical community by reporting that up to 98,000 people a year die because of mistakes in hospitals. The number was initially disputed, but is now widely accepted by doctors and hospital officials — and quoted ubiquitously in the media.
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...ny-die-from-medical-mistakes-in-u-s-hospitals
Bet people expect perfection from their physicians.....

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Yes, hospitals and staff make mistakes, they are human.

They also deal with extremely critically ill people. This seems like a big number and everything should be done to reduce it, but I wonder how many people the hospital and staff save and or do the right thing, to help someone recover?

civilwarbuff said:

By comparison:
It seems that every time researchers estimate how often a medical mistake contributes to a hospital patient's death, the numbers come out worse.

In 1999, the Institute of Medicine published the famous "To Err Is Human" report, which dropped a bombshell on the medical community by reporting that up to 98,000 people a year die because of mistakes in hospitals. The number was initially disputed, but is now widely accepted by doctors and hospital officials — and quoted ubiquitously in the media.
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...ny-die-from-medical-mistakes-in-u-s-hospitals
Bet people expect perfection from their physicians.....

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Actually they don't...and that's the irony. A dr misdiagnosed someone and it led to their death...as long as he's got a reasonable explanation, you'll never see protests or screaming for sweeping reforms. We just accept it and move on...

Yet the Dr gets 8+ years of schooling, 2+ years of job training, and 100s of thousands of dollars...and there's just as little accountability.

bhsmte said:

Yes, hospitals and staff make mistakes, they are human.

They also deal with extremely critically ill people. This seems like a big number and everything should be done to reduce it, but I wonder how many people the hospital and staff save and or do the right thing, to help someone recover?

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And the same question should be asked in relation to cops....does the good they do out weigh whatever harm a few may cause? We are not perfect and to hold anyone to that standard is simply unreasonable.

Ana the Ist said:

Actually they don't...and that's the irony. A dr misdiagnosed someone and it led to their death...as long as he's got a reasonable explanation, you'll never see protests or screaming for sweeping reforms. We just accept it and move on...

Yet the Dr gets 8+ years of schooling, 2+ years of job training, and 100s of thousands of dollars...and there's just as little accountability.

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I would disagree, being in healthcare for as long as I have.

Our legal environment in the United States, most assuredly brings mistakes to the surface and shines a real bright light on them.

Ana the Ist said:

Actually they don't...and that's the irony. A dr misdiagnosed someone and it led to their death...as long as he's got a reasonable explanation, you'll never see protests or screaming for sweeping reforms. We just accept it and move on...

Yet the Dr gets 8+ years of schooling, 2+ years of job training, and 100s of thousands of dollars...and there's just as little accountability.

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Good faith mistakes are one thing, pure incompetence is quite another for both docs and cops.....

civilwarbuff said:

And the same question should be asked in relation to cops....does the good they do out weigh whatever harm a few may cause? We are not perfect and to hold anyone to that standard is simply unreasonable.

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Agree.

There is a thread on this site in regards to how many people that police have killed. The ideology behind this thread is obvious, but it doesn't come close to telling the entire story.

wing2000 said:

...pulled over for a broken tail lamp.

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SMH. I've been pulled over for a taillight out and a headlight out. At no time was I ever asked for my license or registration or proof of insurance. They were just, like... "are you aware that this light is out?" "No, thank you for telling me, officer, I will have it taken care of the first chance I get."

But then again, I'm white, so...

FreeSpirit74 said:

But then again, I'm white, so...

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Some sort of pattern here......nah probably just my imagination.

FreeSpirit74 said:

SMH. I've been pulled over for a taillight out and a headlight out. At no time was I ever asked for my license or registration or proof of insurance. They were just, like... "are you aware that this light is out?" "No, thank you for telling me, officer, I will have it taken care of the first chance I get."

But then again, I'm white, so...

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Ah well, discussion over! Your personal anecdotal experience is all that needs to be said!

Thread!

bhsmte said:

Yes, hospitals and staff make mistakes, they are human.

They also deal with extremely critically ill people. This seems like a big number and everything should be done to reduce it, but I wonder how many people the hospital and staff save and or do the right thing, to help someone recover?

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How often do cops deal with extremely dangerous/violent people and do the right thing....to resolve the problem?

Ana the Ist said:

How often do cops deal with extremely dangerous/violent people and do the right thing....to resolve the problem?

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can't give numbers but most of the time......

Ana the Ist said:

How often do cops deal with extremely dangerous/violent people and do the right thing....to resolve the problem?

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Often, which is why I posted what I did above, in regards to the thread on this site that lists the number of people police kill.

The moral of the story is; if certain groups of people are tasked with treating extremely sick people, some of them are going to die no matter what they do and they will make human errors. To me, this pales in comparison to how many people they save and or improve their health condition.

I would say the same in regards to cops overall. The vast majority of the people they kill they really have no choice. They are human and they make mistakes that are quite obvious and they get all the media attention.

Both medicine and law enforcement, should continue to do all they can, to limit these mistakes.

bhsmte said:

I would disagree, being in healthcare for as long as I have.

Our legal environment in the United States, most assuredly brings mistakes to the surface and shines a real bright light on them.

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You're kidding yourself there...

You're telling me that every time a misdiagnosis causes unnecessary pain and suffering...the victim is compensated? Every time a surgeon makes a mistake that leads to death or serious injury...he's prosecuted?

They hide behind a legal team and a staff willing to corroborate their version of events just as much as any cop.

civilwarbuff said:

Good faith mistakes are one thing, pure incompetence is quite another for both docs and cops.....

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No argument there.

Ana the Ist said:

You're kidding yourself there...

You're telling me that every time a misdiagnosis causes unnecessary pain and suffering...the victim is compensated? Every time a surgeon makes a mistake that leads to death or serious injury...he's prosecuted?

They hide behind a legal team and a staff willing to corroborate their version of events just as much as any cop.

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Of course anyone accused of something is going to have a legal team, what else would you expect?

I have been in healthcare for 25 years and I can tell you this, when someone screws up and either kills or maims someone because of it, there are many more processes in place in healthcare to investigate and expose what happened.

You will have, medicare performing an investigation, you will have the state performing an investigation and you will have a civil trial to expose evidence, with lawyers for the plaintiff hungry to get every penny they can. Furthermore, healthcare is HEAVILY regulated, by the feds, the state and by independent accrediting institutions, that would be breathing down your neck within weeks of any adverse event happening. Very difficult to hide anything in those situations and healthcare professionals are concerned about their license and they are much less likely to lie to protect someone else.

Ana the Ist said:

You're kidding yourself there...

You're telling me that every time a misdiagnosis causes unnecessary pain and suffering...the victim is compensated? Every time a surgeon makes a mistake that leads to death or serious injury...he's prosecuted?

They hide behind a legal team and a staff willing to corroborate their version of events just as much as any cop.

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Understand, justice is not perfect either.....injustice will happen.....