What about the rest of us?

dlamberth · Jul 6, 2016

Robban said:
OK, it goes way past me, don't get it at alL

It's an image of a Cosmic Christ that is being described by Teilhard.

Robban · Jul 6, 2016

Fizzywig said:
Something like the words of Jerusalem, by William Blake.....

"I will not cease from mental fight
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand
Till we have built Jerusalem
On England's green and pleasant land"

(But in a Cosmic context)

No I think it is all lost on me.
I don't see realms, worlds, levels, heavens as being somewhere up in the blue.

I believe that here on earth is where it is at.

fat wee robin · Jul 6, 2016

Fizzywig said:
Effectively you, fat wee robin, have become God. Infallible. Making pronouncements and judgements of others. Just as you do above, telling another they are "lost", as you did a while back with me......."Not UNTIL ,until what ? Until you waken up in the Dark , the eternal dark "

You appear to touch upon this whole hornets nest of "objective"/"Subjective", of "absolute" and "relative" truth, which I suppose will be argued about until kingdom come (!!)

The creeds that determined the status of Jesus were thrashed out (in a none too friendly fashion) during the first few centuries of the Christian era. They eventually came up with a formula that you yourself interpret as Him being God, the only way, the narrow way.

As I have argued in the past, all true religion is paradox. yet there is paradox and there is contradiction. Christianity sometimes appears to fudge the issue by speaking of "mysteries", the mysteries of Faith. So we are asked to believe that a man was God (where was the Father when God the son walked the earth..............mystery!) , and that words found in an old book determine how we are to "accept" him to enter the "narrow way". Effectively, you slam the kingdom of heaven in peoples faces. You appear to like the "objective".......so "as by one man (Adam) sin entered the world"...........so you must believe that the first few chapters of Genesis are objective truth and not myth. Thus the trap door closes, slamming the kingdom of heaven in peoples faces, those unable to start believing that black is white, that up is down. (The response being, often, that they have "hardened their hearts")

"Purely objective statements miss the mark, for God is not an object. He is Person. Nor are we, as persons, objects. Here all is Subject. There is no "object" "out there" to "see". Here all is presence and communion. Here everything, including our own individuality, remains itself - or, rather, for the first time becomes itself, but does so only by opening out into the oneness that is God."

(James Finley)

Thomas Merton speaks of the door into the Narrow Way.........

The door without wish. The undesired. The unplanned door. The door never expected. Never wanted. Not desirable as a door. Not a joke, not a trap door. Not select. Not exclusive. Not for a few. Not for many. Not for. Door without aim. Door without end. Does not respond to a key - so do not imagine you have a key. Do not have your hopes on possession of the key.

So, fat wee robin, console yourself with actually having the key. And continue to try to lock the door from your side.

tars ,as well as in the bible ,although like most things which seem simple when you know how , it is quite difficult to find, unless you are led there , by the Holy Spirit .

dlamberth said:
Maybe for you, but for myself, I see Christ within every Human Being. That's just the way I roll.

You mean the 'light of Christ ' ;but there is still only One Christ, and not all humans have this Light .Some have rejected it .

Robban · Jul 6, 2016

dlamberth said:
It's an image of a Cosmic Christ that is being described by Teilhard.

Well you wrote that Teilhard was a Christian mystic so maybe that explains it,
if he has based his thinking on the NT.

Fizzywig · Jul 6, 2016

fat wee robin said:
tars ,as well as in the bible ,although like most things which seem simple when you know how , it is quite difficult to find, unless you are led there , by the Holy Spirit .

You mean the 'light of Christ ' ;but there is still only One Christ, and not all humans have this Light .Some have rejected it .

You have avoided all that has been said to you, then merely indulged in self-commendation, presumption and pure assumption that you "have the light" and all who disagree with you remain in the dark.

Your choice.

As far as simplicity, such is my own argument........."come, just as you are". It seems to be the Christians here, like yourself, who are unable to grasp such childlike trust and faith.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 6, 2016

Fizzywig said:
As far as simplicity, such is my own argument........."come, just as you are". It seems to be the Christians here... who are unable to grasp such childlike trust and faith.

Seems to be ?
This has always been the problem, and why there is dis-unity, dis-harmony, dis-ease, and wrong teachings throughout history.

Fizzywig · Jul 6, 2016

Robban said:
No I think it is all lost on me.
I don't see realms, worlds, levels, heavens as being somewhere up in the blue.

I believe that here on earth is where it is at.

Me too, but just trying to pare a cosmic vision down to more manageable proportions.

Hear now the miracles of the Buddhist Faith......."when hungry I eat, when tired I sleep, when happy I laugh, when sad I cry"

dlamberth · Jul 6, 2016

fat wee robin said:
You mean the 'light of Christ ' ;but there is still only One Christ, and not all humans have this Light .Some have rejected it .

I disagree. Mainly because I see the souls of all human beings are an activity of God, as is all of the universe. As such all human beings have Christ with in them. Personally, I have no idea how to limit or bound Christ anywhere in this Creation.

Fizzywig · Jul 7, 2016

I was just seeking to recapture my last thoughts as I was leaving Christianity behind. Of the risen Christ asking his disciples why they searched for him in the tomb, that He had risen. Of Jesus telling them earlier that he must go so that the spirit could come. The spirit that would "blow where it will" - not where fat wee robin or anyone else declared.

I know full well that there are other verses and other interpretations. But that was how I saw it when I left the Bible as any sort of guide. Interpretation I now leave to the Scripture bound, who - as we see clearly on this forum - can agree upon nothing accept perhaps that their very own particular interpretation is actually the "narrow way", the "only way". Each happy in their own particular comfort zone.

toLiJC · Jul 7, 2016

nightflight said:
Those of us who are screw ups, thrown about by the waves of our passions, incorrigible, filled with bitterness and even hate; what is to come of us? We who may have an interest in spiritual things, aware of a transcending reality and goodness, but not only fail to reach it, but fail to even try. Are we doomed to whatever hell your various faiths have? Is God, Brahma, Allah, Amida going to save us anyway? Or is it the pit for us?

We of the Bad want to know.

the sin is the infliction of harm/suffering on the neighbor, the people that are perpetrators/culprits in this eternity will be in the place of their victims in next/future eternities and will then suffer in exactly the same way as their victims of this eternity suffered, because the sins can't be forgiven in the long(est) term of eternity, i.e. for all the time's infinity, due to the existence of eternal circle of life and existence - so it doesn't pay to cause harm/suffering to our neighbor

Blessings

Fizzywig · Jul 7, 2016

toLiJC said:
the sin is the infliction of harm/suffering on the neighbor, the people that are perpetrators/culprits in this eternity will be in the place of their victims in next/future eternities and will then suffer in exactly the same way as their victims of this eternity suffered, because the sins can't be forgiven in the long(est) term of eternity, i.e. for all the time's infinity, due to the existence of eternal circle of life and existence - so it doesn't pay to cause harm/suffering to our neighbor

Blessings

"Ye have heard it said, an eye for an eye, but.........."

toLiJC · Jul 8, 2016

Fizzywig said:
"Ye have heard it said, an eye for an eye, but.........."

yes, this is one of the key points that indicate the doctrine of eternal judgment(circle of positions and events), just one of the pieces of the jumbled puzzle of the God's truth called "scripture"

Blessings

Fizzywig · Jul 8, 2016

toLiJC said:
yes, this is one of the key points that indicate the doctrine of eternal judgment(circle of positions and events), just one of the pieces of the jumbled puzzle of the God's truth called "scripture"

Blessings

Maybe you could clarify. The "but" to me breaks the circle of "positions and events". Breaks it with mercy, grace, forgiveness.

toLiJC · Jul 9, 2016

Fizzywig said:
Maybe you could clarify. The "but" to me breaks the circle of "positions and events". Breaks it with mercy, grace, forgiveness.

nothing breaks the eternal circle of positions and events, because there is a beginning as well as an end of eternity, which are the beginning and the end of the so-called single eternity, i.e. the single cycle of eternity - a period longer than a millennium, whose full circle is the full cycle of the single eternities:

Revelation 14:11 (Aramaic Bible in PE) "the smoke of their torment ascends for the eternity of eternities, and there is no rest, day or night, for those who worship The Beast and its Image and for him who takes the mark of its name.",

Revelation 19:2-3 (Aramaic Bible in PE) "he has judged The Great harlot, who corrupted The Earth with her whoredom and he has required the blood of his Servants from her hand. Again, they said, "Hallelujah!" And her smoke ascends to the eternity of eternities.",

Revelation 22:3-11 (Aramaic Bible in PE) "no curse shall be there, and the throne of God and of The Lamb shall be in it, and his Servants shall serve him. And they shall see his face and his Name shall be upon their foreheads. And there shall be no night there and neither will they need lights, lamps, or the light of the Sun, because THE LORD God gives them light, and he is their King for the eternity of eternities... he who does evil, will do evil again(i.e. in next eternities); he who is foul, again will be polluted(i.e. in next eternities); the righteous again will do righteousness and the holy will again be hallowed(i.e. in next eternities)."

so here is how the system of human(666) religion and spiritual iniquity is already judged for ever and ever - it just doesn't pay to worship/serve the other "god(s)"

Blessings

Fizzywig · Jul 9, 2016

toLiJC said:
nothing breaks the eternal circle of positions and events, because there is a beginning as well as an end of eternity, which are the beginning and the end of the so-called single eternity, i.e. the single cycle of eternity - a period longer than a millennium, whose full circle is the full cycle of the single eternities:

Revelation 14:11 (Aramaic Bible in PE) "the smoke of their torment ascends for the eternity of eternities, and there is no rest, day or night, for those who worship The Beast and its Image and for him who takes the mark of its name.",

Revelation 19:2-3 (Aramaic Bible in PE) "he has judged The Great harlot, who corrupted The Earth with her whoredom and he has required the blood of his Servants from her hand. Again, they said, "Hallelujah!" And her smoke ascends to the eternity of eternities.",

Revelation 22:3-11 (Aramaic Bible in PE) "no curse shall be there, and the throne of God and of The Lamb shall be in it, and his Servants shall serve him. And they shall see his face and his Name shall be upon their foreheads. And there shall be no night there and neither will they need lights, lamps, or the light of the Sun, because THE LORD God gives them light, and he is their King for the eternity of eternities... he who does evil, will do evil again(i.e. in next eternities); he who is foul, again will be polluted(i.e. in next eternities); the righteous again will do righteousness and the holy will again be hallowed(i.e. in next eternities)."

so here is how the system of human(666) religion and spiritual iniquity is already judged for ever and ever - it just doesn't pay to worship/serve the other "god(s)"

Blessings

Good grief........talk about the faith of a child! Try explaining that lot to a child

"Come, just as you are"

Mercy/grace breaks all cycles. Sorry you seem unable to grasp such.

Fizzywig · Jul 9, 2016

toLiJC said:
nothing breaks the eternal circle of positions and events, because there is a beginning as well as an end of eternity, which are the beginning and the end of the so-called single eternity, i.e. the single cycle of eternity - a period longer than a millennium, whose full circle is the full cycle of the single eternities:

Revelation 14:11 (Aramaic Bible in PE) "the smoke of their torment ascends for the eternity of eternities, and there is no rest, day or night, for those who worship The Beast and its Image and for him who takes the mark of its name.",

Revelation 19:2-3 (Aramaic Bible in PE) "he has judged The Great harlot, who corrupted The Earth with her whoredom and he has required the blood of his Servants from her hand. Again, they said, "Hallelujah!" And her smoke ascends to the eternity of eternities.",

Revelation 22:3-11 (Aramaic Bible in PE) "no curse shall be there, and the throne of God and of The Lamb shall be in it, and his Servants shall serve him. And they shall see his face and his Name shall be upon their foreheads. And there shall be no night there and neither will they need lights, lamps, or the light of the Sun, because THE LORD God gives them light, and he is their King for the eternity of eternities... he who does evil, will do evil again(i.e. in next eternities); he who is foul, again will be polluted(i.e. in next eternities); the righteous again will do righteousness and the holy will again be hallowed(i.e. in next eternities)."

so here is how the system of human(666) religion and spiritual iniquity is already judged for ever and ever - it just doesn't pay to worship/serve the other "god(s)"

Blessings

Maybe time again to repeat the words of Thomas Merton, drawn from his book "Raids on the Unspeakable". Given the post I am responded to, I make no apologies at all for once again posting this.

......the deeper question is the nature of reality itself.

Inexorable consistency. Is reality the same as consistency?

The "reality" of the world of many is of consistency, but the reality of the real world is not consistent.

The world of consistency is the world of justice, but justice is not the final word.

There is, above the consistent and logical world of justice, an inconsistent illogical world where nothing "hangs together," where justice no longer damns each to their own darkness. This inconsistent world is the realm of mercy.

The world can only be "consistent" without God.

His freedom will always threaten it with inconsistency - with unexpected gifts.

A god who is fitted into our world scheme in order to make it serious and consistent is not God.

Such a world is not to be taken seriously, such a god is not to be taken seriously. If such a god is "absent" then doubtless the absence is a blessing.

To take him seriously is to submit to obsession, to doubt, to magic, and then to escape these, or try to escape them, by willfulness, by the determination to stake all on an arbitrary selection of "things to be taken seriously" because they "save," because they are "his affairs."

(Note that even atheism takes seriously this god of consistency)

But mercy breaks into the world of magic and justice and overturns its apparent consistency. Mercy is inconsistent. It is therefore comic. It liberates us from the tragic seriousness of the obsessive world which we have "made up" for ourselves by yielding to our obsessions. Only mercy can liberate us from the madness of our determination to be consistent - from the awful pattern of lusts, greeds, angers and hatreds which mix us up altogether like a mass of dough and thrusts us all together into the oven.

Mercy cannot be contained in the web of obsessions.

Nor is it something one determines to think about - that one resolves to "take seriously," in the sense of becoming obsessed with it.

You cannot become obsessed with mercy!

This is the inner secret of mercy. It is totally incompatible with obsession, with compulsion. It liberates from all the rigid and deterministic structures which magic strives to impose on reality (or which science, the child of magic, tries to impose)

Mercy is not to be purchased by a set way of acting, by a formal determination to be consistent.

Law is consistent. Grace is "inconsistent."

The Cross is the sign of contradiction - destroying the seriousness of the Law, of the Empire, of the armies, of blood sacrifice, and of obsession.

But the magicians keep turning the Cross to their own purpose. Yes, it is for them too a sign of contradiction: the awful blasphemy of the religious magician who makes the Cross contradict mercy. This of course is the ultimate temptation of Christianity. To say that Christ has locked all doors, has given one answer, settled everything and departed, leaving all life enclosed in the frightful consistency of a system outside of which there is seriousness and damnation, inside of which there is the intolerable flippancy of the saved - while nowhere is there any place left for the mystery of the freedom of divine mercy which alone is truly serious, and worthy of being taken seriously.

Sorry, toLiJC, I find your entire post incoherent! And demonstrably wrong! Eternity is timelessness, there cannot be more than one of them. Really, I have no idea just what "god" you serve, but I see in your post just how devotion to a book can corrupt the simple common sense we were all born with.

I offer you my sincere condolences.

toLiJC · Jul 9, 2016

Fizzywig said:
Good grief........talk about the faith of a child! Try explaining that lot to a child

"Come, just as you are"

Mercy/grace breaks all cycles. Sorry you seem unable to grasp such.

every adult was one of these little ones (as Jesus, the Lord, calls the little children in the Gospels), but how many of them were seduced, defiled and ruined by the system of human(666) religion/spiritual iniquity?!, now there are many defiled and ruined adults, who were also little/innocent children at first, so do we really love our neighbor, or we hypocritically show love outwardly but inwardly believe all the time (deep in our hearts) that many must suffer only because they are irreligious or users by their nature created by God?!, if there has alway been an eternity of eternities for all the hitherto elapsed time's infinity and if there will always be such for the coming time's infinity, then what am i guilty of?!, and if the truth is what/such as it is, what am i at fault for?!, if there had been no previous eternities, then why were we born here in this world under sin and not left in a paradise of indefinitely lasting life for the last 5-6 millennia, since the creation of the world?!, or how is it possible that there be a soul which never inherited eternal life in the time's infinity that had been before the beginning of this eternity - it had been a whole time's infinity after all?!

John 8:35 "the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever."

so if we claim we should love our neighbor, then let's love him/her properly, but if we claim to be wise, then let's at least be truly wise, because the truth also matters, especially in the faith where even a little misbelief may be fatal to many and (God forbid) to all humankind

Galatians 5:8-9 "This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.",

Romans 5:12-14 "by one man(also: by the generation of the unrighteous spiritual workers/servants) sin(i.e. the devil and the system of (the) spiritual iniquity/lawlessness) entered into the world, and death(i.e. and the (spirit of) deterioration) by sin; and so death passed upon all men(i.e. and so the deterioration affected many humans), for that all have sinned(i.e. because many were seized by the system of (the) spiritual iniquity/lawlessness, some of them as its servants, others as its victims): For until the law sin was in the world(i.e. because the "darkness" was in the universe even until the nascence of the human spirituality/religion): but sin is not imputed when there is no law(i.e. but there is no sin where there is no spiritual iniquity/lawlessness). Nevertheless death(i.e. the deterioration) reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression(i.e. even over people that had not committed spiritual iniquity/lawlessness)"

Blessings

Fizzywig · Jul 9, 2016

toLiJC said:
every adult was one of these little ones (as Jesus, the Lord, calls the little children in the Gospels), but how many of them were seduced, defiled and ruined by the system of human(666) religion/spiritual iniquity?!, now there are many defiled and ruined adults, who were also little/innocent children at first, so do we really love our neighbor, or we hypocritically show love outwardly but inwardly believe all the time (deep in our hearts) that many must suffer only because they are irreligious or users by their nature created by God?!, if there has alway been an eternity of eternities for all the hitherto elapsed time's infinity and if there will always be such for the coming time's infinity, then what am i guilty of?!, and if the truth is what/such as it is, what am i at fault for?!, if there had been no previous eternities, then why were we born here in this world under sin and not left in a paradise of indefinitely lasting life for the last 5-6 millennia, since the creation of the world?!, or how is it possible that there be a soul which never inherited eternal life in the time's infinity that had been before the beginning of this eternity - it had been a whole time's infinity after all?!

John 8:35 "the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever."

so if we claim we should love our neighbor, then let's love him/her properly, but if we claim to be wise, then let's at least be truly wise, because the truth also matters, especially in the faith where even a little misbelief may be fatal to many and (God forbid) to all humankind

Galatians 5:8-9 "This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.",

Romans 5:12-14 "by one man(also: by the generation of the unrighteous spiritual workers/servants) sin(i.e. the devil and the system of (the) spiritual iniquity/lawlessness) entered into the world, and death(i.e. and the (spirit of) deterioration) by sin; and so death passed upon all men(i.e. and so the deterioration affected many humans), for that all have sinned(i.e. because many were seized by the system of (the) spiritual iniquity/lawlessness, some of them as its servants, others as its victims): For until the law sin was in the world(i.e. because the "darkness" was in the universe even until the nascence of the human spirituality/religion): but sin is not imputed when there is no law(i.e. but there is no sin where there is no spiritual iniquity/lawlessness). Nevertheless death(i.e. the deterioration) reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression(i.e. even over people that had not committed spiritual iniquity/lawlessness)"

Blessings

Incoherent and demonstably wrong.

:wave:

toLiJC · Jul 9, 2016

Fizzywig said:
Maybe time again to repeat the words of Thomas Merton, drawn from his book "Raids on the Unspeakable". Given the post I am responded to, I make no apologies at all for once again posting this.

......the deeper question is the nature of reality itself.

Inexorable consistency. Is reality the same as consistency?

The "reality" of the world of many is of consistency, but the reality of the real world is not consistent.

The world of consistency is the world of justice, but justice is not the final word.

There is, above the consistent and logical world of justice, an inconsistent illogical world where nothing "hangs together," where justice no longer damns each to their own darkness. This inconsistent world is the realm of mercy.

The world can only be "consistent" without God.

His freedom will always threaten it with inconsistency - with unexpected gifts.

A god who is fitted into our world scheme in order to make it serious and consistent is not God.

Such a world is not to be taken seriously, such a god is not to be taken seriously. If such a god is "absent" then doubtless the absence is a blessing.

To take him seriously is to submit to obsession, to doubt, to magic, and then to escape these, or try to escape them, by willfulness, by the determination to stake all on an arbitrary selection of "things to be taken seriously" because they "save," because they are "his affairs."

(Note that even atheism takes seriously this god of consistency)

But mercy breaks into the world of magic and justice and overturns its apparent consistency. Mercy is inconsistent. It is therefore comic. It liberates us from the tragic seriousness of the obsessive world which we have "made up" for ourselves by yielding to our obsessions. Only mercy can liberate us from the madness of our determination to be consistent - from the awful pattern of lusts, greeds, angers and hatreds which mix us up altogether like a mass of dough and thrusts us all together into the oven.

Mercy cannot be contained in the web of obsessions.

Nor is it something one determines to think about - that one resolves to "take seriously," in the sense of becoming obsessed with it.

You cannot become obsessed with mercy!

This is the inner secret of mercy. It is totally incompatible with obsession, with compulsion. It liberates from all the rigid and deterministic structures which magic strives to impose on reality (or which science, the child of magic, tries to impose)

Mercy is not to be purchased by a set way of acting, by a formal determination to be consistent.

Law is consistent. Grace is "inconsistent."

The Cross is the sign of contradiction - destroying the seriousness of the Law, of the Empire, of the armies, of blood sacrifice, and of obsession.

But the magicians keep turning the Cross to their own purpose. Yes, it is for them too a sign of contradiction: the awful blasphemy of the religious magician who makes the Cross contradict mercy. This of course is the ultimate temptation of Christianity. To say that Christ has locked all doors, has given one answer, settled everything and departed, leaving all life enclosed in the frightful consistency of a system outside of which there is seriousness and damnation, inside of which there is the intolerable flippancy of the saved - while nowhere is there any place left for the mystery of the freedom of divine mercy which alone is truly serious, and worthy of being taken seriously.

Sorry, toLiJC, I find your entire post incoherent! And demonstrably wrong! Eternity is timelessness, there cannot be more than one of them. Really, I have no idea just what "god" you serve, but I see in your post just how devotion to a book can corrupt the simple common sense we were all born with.

I offer you my sincere condolences.

these words "coherent/coherency" and "incoherent/incoherency" seem to be quite unclear and speculative in this passage that you quoted, of course i don't judge thomas merton, nor do i claim he didn't say any truth, but it will be better for the worshipers to be careful not to accept/follow any misbelief

when it comes to God's word, i listen only to That Who is really the true Lord God as well as to His true Saints, moreover, i examine/test everything, when i have to interpret any biblical verse i take into consideration all other biblical verses

you seem to use words such as "incoherent" somehow speculatively, but it is possible that thomas merton wrote something that you don't interpret right

here is the translation of the biblical word "ever"("αἰών", strong's g165) that is used in the above quotes of my previous post:

1. for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
2. the worlds, universe
3. period of time, age

here are the meanings of the word "eternity" in the general dictionary:

1. Time without beginning or end; infinite time.
2. The state or quality of being eternal.
3.
a. The timeless state following death.
b. The afterlife; immortality.
4. A very long or seemingly endless time:

so, as it was said in my previous posts, eternity is both endless and periodic, because it is a long period which starts again whenever it ends, whose events are always the same and repeat in exactly the same order just as they happened/occurred in every previous cycle, it is like a wheel that rotates about its axis constantly thus making full revolutions ad infinitum, and like one movie that is always replayed and whose every scene repeats in exactly the same way at every replay, only the actors(souls) alternate their roles(positions) - between each role and any other successively one step ahead of every (next) single eternity, Jesus Christ will also "someday" be in the place of every human under sin, that is why He said:

John 10:17-18 "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."

Blessings

Fizzywig · Jul 9, 2016

toLiJC said:
these words "coherent/coherency" and "incoherent/incoherency" seem to be quite unclear and speculative in this passage that you quoted, of course i don't judge thomas merton, nor do i claim he didn't say any truth, but it will be better for the worshipers to be careful not to accept/follow any misbelief

when it comes to God's word, i listen only to That Who is really the true Lord God as well as to His true Saints, moreover, i examine/test everything, when i have to interpret any biblical verse i take into consideration all other biblical verses

you seem to use words such as "incoherent" somehow speculatively, but it is possible that thomas merton wrote something that you don't interpret right

here is the translation of the biblical word "ever"("αἰών", strong's g165) that is used in the above quotes of my previous post:

1. for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
2. the worlds, universe
3. period of time, age

here are the meanings of the word "eternity" in the general dictionary:

1. Time without beginning or end; infinite time.
2. The state or quality of being eternal.
3.
a. The timeless state following death.
b. The afterlife; immortality.
4. A very long or seemingly endless time:

so, as it was said in my previous posts, eternity is both endless and periodic, because it is a long period which starts again whenever it ends, whose events are always the same and repeat in exactly the same order just as they happened/occurred in every previous cycle, it is like a wheel that rotates about its axis constantly thus making full revolutions ad infinitum, and like one movie that is always replayed and whose every scene repeats in exactly the same way at every replay, only the actors(souls) alternate their roles(positions) - between each role and any other successively one step ahead of every (next) single eternity, Jesus Christ will also "someday" be in the place of every human under sin, that is why He said:

John 10:17-18 "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."

Blessings

I would say that it is completely impossible to interpret any particular Biblical verse by relating it to, and putting it into, the context of every other verse. That you claim to so puts me very much on guard against your entire attempts at exposition. Possibly there will be an appeal made to the "spiritual eye" given to the "true" believer, yet such is nothing more than circular reasoning ( without mention of others who make claims as you do yet who interpret things differently )

Sorry, Merton is stating quite clearly, without incoherence, that grace/mercy trumps all our schemes, schemes that in effect would replace mercy with any particular formula drawn from wherever.

I'm sorry that you prefer to remain a "magician".

What about the rest of us?

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Namu Amida Butsu

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Namu Amida Butsu

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Namu Amida Butsu

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Namu Amida Butsu

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Namu Amida Butsu

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Namu Amida Butsu

Namu Amida Butsu

Senior Member

Namu Amida Butsu

Senior Member

Namu Amida Butsu

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