Why are so many protestants anti-Catholic and/or anti-Orthodox

amariselle said:

I said no such thing. I already told you I will follow where God leads.

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OK, sounds good.

Thursday said:

OK, sounds good.

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Good, now we can move on.

Thursday said:

Most modern Lutherans are in the symbolic camp, though, as I understand it.

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Your understand would be in need of correction, then, though there is less quibbling about the metaphysics than in the past. The Lutheran confessions are not unclear on this matter, the Body and Blood of Christ are present "in, with, and under" the bread and wine.

It is understood that all Christians who practice the Lord's Supper with the Words of Institution eat and drink the Body and Blood of Christ. That is why mainline Lutherans allow intercommunion and altar fellowship with other mainline denominations. Not because their doctrines are necessarily correct, but because the presence of Christ in the sacrament is not dependent on us having correct doctrinal understanding of the sacrament. The Baptist that thinks it is just a symbol and eats and drinks the Body and Blood of Christ the same as a Lutheran, but he doesn't have the assurance that Christ gives himself to us in the sacrament unconditionally for the forgiveness of our sins.

amariselle said:

I'm not disagreeing with His being present with us, I am disagreeing with the idea that we eat His actual flesh and drink His actual blood through transubstantiation. I apologize if I was unclear about that.

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Oh dear. Yes, I did think you were rejecting more than this.

OrthodoxForever said:

No the communion elements don't transform into a human body and human blood, that's not and never has been what Transubstantiation means.

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Well, yes it is. I think you are referring to the particularly Orthodox way of viewing it, which is often called (mainly by other people) Transubstantiation or, if not that, said to be about the same as the RC view. But it's not really, because the RC view is that there IS a literal changeover, that it's a mechanical process, and it becomes truly carnal. The Orthodox view is considerably more nuanced and mystical or supernatural, however you want to phrase it.

Hi thursday,

If anyone denies that in the sacrament of the most Holy Eucharist are contained truly, really and substantially the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and consequently the whole Christ,[42] but says that He is in it only as in a sign, or figure or force, let him be anathema. (Session XII, Canon I)

That's the reason that I can't be a part of the Catholic organization. I'm anathema.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

There really is no one Eastern Orthodox view of the Eucharist, except to reject things like receptionism or memorialism (which is why the physical matter of the sacrament is treated with the highest respect owing to its dignity). Alexander Schmemann, an eminet 20th century Russian-American theologian, said that the Eucharist reveals the bread and wine to be the Body and Blood of Christ. I think that is very close to the Lutheran viewpoint.

I believe the churches as seven...

Ephesus - Messianic - The first church started by the apostle to the circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Gentile - Started by the apostle to the uncircumcision, Paul - The persecutions were ten, as outlined in the Foxes Book of Martyrs.
Pergamos - Orthodox - Started with Constantine... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholic - Increased with Charlemagne - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestant - Began with Martin Luther - A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism - Began with John Bunyan - Continued with Wesley... To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Materialistic - Began with DL Moody, the first to profit from ministry... Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. - 2 Corinthians 11:3

Salvation and receiving Christ was suppose to be very easy...

If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. - Romans 10:9-10

Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. - Acts 16:30-31

It is the serpent, or the devil himself, through his subtilty, that complicated salvation through knowledge. Denominational walls are then built high with the people believing theirs as the only true church. Denominational hens take this complicated gospel and try to make people believe that you cannot exist without it. Denominational hens also will believe that their ego is Holy Spirit, in which it is not.

Thursday said:

Yes, that is where you will find the body of Christ physically present.

Pray before his body and ask the Holy Spirit for discernment.

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God is presence everywhere except for you to box him in RCC only.

amariselle said:

Not literally no.

When Jesus spoke of the bread and the wine and the taking of them as an act of remembrance, they were not his actual flesh and blood even then. Communion is just what He said, an act of remembrance, and an acknowledgement and confession of all Jesus has done for us. In taking part in Communion we are acknowledging and remembering Jesus' atonement and saving work on the cross, and we are proclaiming our need for our Saviour and forgiveness as sinful and fallen people. We join together and do this as a Christian family, brothers and sisters in Christ, united with each other and our Saviour, Jesus.

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Yes, Literally. Lutherans, Anglicans and Moravians.

MarkRohfrietsch said:

Yes, Literally. Lutherans, Anglicans and Moravians.

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That wouldn't be in harmony with official Anglican teaching, although (as everyone knows) you can find some Anglican somewhere who believes in almost anything.

amariselle said:

Were they truly present at the last supper, or was He instituting an act of remembrance regarding His sacrifice for all mankind? (I am asking respectfully, not trying to be argumentative)

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Jesus said it was and Jesus speaks the truth.

MarkRohfrietsch said:

Jesus said it was and Jesus speaks the truth.

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And you can believe that. I disagree, I find no Biblical evidence to support that claim. Jesus often referred to things symbolically.

amariselle said:

And you can believe that. I disagree, I find no Biblical evidence to support that claim. Jesus often referred to things symbolically.

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We've already identified and discussed the Biblical evidence. It's just the interpretation of Jesus' words that divides us.

amariselle said:

Yes, if we take part in communion, which is an acknowledgment of Jesus' death on the cross and sacrifice for our sins, and yet don't believe we actually need such a sacrifice, we are sinning against Jesus.

Why is that so hard to understand?

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According to my Chruch and my belief; yes you are.

Thursday said:

Maybe you should try honesty for a change. You know very well that the vast majority of protestants reject the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. This thread is exhibit A.

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Numerically, it is you who is in error.

Albion said:

We've already identified and discussed the Biblical evidence. It's just the interpretation of Jesus' words that divides us.

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Yes, I was replying to Mark.

amariselle said:

Yes, I was replying to Mark.

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I know, but I was surprised at it, considering that you and I exchanged a number of posts talking about how to evaluate the Biblical evidence you just told Mark you don't find in Scripture.

Thursday said:

They are just locations, just like . we read of the Church at Antioch and the Church at Jerusalem. They were just different locations.

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Agreed. And these messages were sent to them and set before us as instructions and examples; good and bad.