Why are so many protestants anti-Catholic and/or anti-Orthodox

Thursday · Jul 6, 2016

Albion said:
Yes, they do. If you don't know any more about the subject than you're showing with this comment, maybe it would be better to not make a post showing that to be the case.

Maybe you should try honesty for a change. You know very well that the vast majority of protestants reject the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. This thread is exhibit A.

OrthodoxForever · Jul 6, 2016

amariselle said:
They were misunderstood, Thant much I have learned. Perhaps some of them DID believe it was His actual body and blood, but I still see no Scriptural basis for this.

John 6 is pretty clear about this.

Thursday · Jul 6, 2016

amariselle said:
Yes, if we take part in communion, which is an acknowledgment of Jesus' death on the cross and sacrifice for our sins, and yet don't believe we actually need such a sacrifice, we are sinning against Jesus.

Why is that so hard to understand?

It is easy to understand, but you just make it up. That's not what the bible teaches or what early Christians believed.

55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them

amariselle · Jul 6, 2016

Thursday said:
He gave us the method for eating his flesh and drinking his blood at the Last Supper.

You are twisting the words of scripture to fit your personal beliefs because you don't have faith in the words of Jesus or the apostles.

. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them

No, YOU are twisting the words of Scripture. Jesus instituted an act of remembrance at the last supper, before His sacrifice on the cross was actually made. He DID NOT rip off a piece of His actual flesh or cut Himself and spill His actual blood there at the last supper.

Thursday · Jul 6, 2016

amariselle said:
No, YOU are twisting the words of Scripture. Jesus instituted an act of remembrance at the last supper, before His sacrifice on the cross was actually made. He DID NOT rip off a piece of His actual flesh or cut Himself and spill His actual blood there at the last supper.

The bread and wine became his body and blood.

That's what Jesus told us, but you reject it. He had prepared the apostles for this with very clear words.

55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them

Albion · Jul 6, 2016

amariselle said:
They were misunderstood, Thant much I have learned. Perhaps some of them DID believe it was His actual body and blood, but I still see no Scriptural basis for this.

Christ having said "This (is) My Body" and calling the cup his blood which is (is, not will be) "shed for many" doesn't count?

OrthodoxForever · Jul 6, 2016

shioks said:
Only RCC believed Jesus started one Church. I don't have to go further on this as it has been discussed earlier by others.

That's actually not factual, what exists today as the Orthodox Church also believes that. in 1054 AD we split with our Roman brothers and sisters and many have abandoned them and formed still more churches since then, but that doesn't change the fact that the Church was always intended to be one. Jesus was the first one to say that a house divided against itself cannot stand, we were also cautioned to neither add nor subtract from the faith as it was received, and to reject false "teachers" who went against the true faith. My prayer is that someday the various churches reunify into the one Church once again.

amariselle · Jul 6, 2016

OrthodoxForever said:
John 6 is pretty clear about this.

The loaves and fish remained actual loaves and fish, they only multiplied in number. I fail to see the parallel between this and the belief that bread and wine somehow become the actual flesh and blood of Jesus, while still appearing in every way exactly like bread and wine.

If Jesus truly wanted people to eat His actual flesh and drink His actual blood, why would He have bothered with the bread and the wine? He was sitting right there with them, He could have made His intentions clear by actually giving them his flesh to eat and blood to drink right then and there.

He did no such thing, nor did His disciples eat His body or drink His blood after His death on the cross. Clearly they understood He did not mean it literally, or they would have done so, and Scripture would make this clear.

Albion · Jul 6, 2016

OrthodoxForever said:
That's actually not factual, what exists today as the Orthodox Church also believes that. in 1054 AD we split with our Roman brothers and sisters and many have abandoned them and formed still more churches since then, but that doesn't change the fact that the Church was always intended to be one..

Oh, "intended to be one." I doubt that any of us want to contest that point.

amariselle · Jul 6, 2016

Albion said:
Christ having said "This (is) My Body" and calling the cup his blood which is (is, not will be) "shed for many" doesn't count?

Do you not think He was speaking of His coming death on the cross?

amariselle · Jul 6, 2016

Thursday said:
The bread and wine became his body and blood.

That's what Jesus told us, but you reject it. He had prepared the apostles for this with very clear words.

55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them

His sacrifice is what truly sustains us and keeps us in Him, and Him in us. We must accept this sacrifice for that to be so.

Albion · Jul 6, 2016

amariselle said:
The loaves and fish remained actual loaves and fish, they only multiplied in number. I fail to see the parallel between this and the belief that bread and wine somehow become the actual flesh and blood of Jesus, while still appearing in every way exactly like bread and wine.

You're right. Some people cite John 6 in an attempt to support Transubstantiation, but that passage cannot actually refer to the Lord's Supper which hadn't even been instituted by that time. And yet we find Jesus becoming impatient with the Jews he was addressing because they didn't interpret his words as referring to the Lord's Supper? Hardly.

Thursday · Jul 6, 2016

amariselle said:
The loaves and fish remained actual loaves and fish, they only multiplied in number. I fail to see the parallel between this and the belief that bread and wine somehow become the actual flesh and blood of Jesus, while still appearing in every way exactly like bread and wine.

If Jesus truly wanted people to eat His actual flesh and drink His actual blood, why would He have bothered with the bread and the wine? He was sitting right there with them, He could have made His intentions clear by actually giving them his flesh to eat and blood to drink right then and there.

He did no such thing, nor did His disciples eat His body or drink His blood after His death on the cross. Clearly they understood He did not mean it literally, or they would have done so, and Scripture would make this clear.

You are rationalizing.

OrthodoxForever · Jul 6, 2016

amariselle said:
The loaves and fish remained actual loaves and fish, they only multiplied in number. I fail to see the parallel between this and the belief that bread and wine somehow become the actual flesh and blood of Jesus, while still appearing in every way exactly like bread and wine.

If Jesus truly wanted people to eat His actual flesh and drink His actual blood, why would He have bothered with the bread and the wine? He was sitting right there with them, He could have made His intentions clear by actually giving them his flesh to eat and blood to drink right then and there.

He did no such thing, nor did His disciples eat His body or drink His blood after His death on the cross. Clearly they understood He did not mean it literally, or they would have done so, and Scripture would make this clear.

Not the loaves and fish, later on in the chapter when it says this:

41 The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” 42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”

43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God. Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Meg]' has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”

53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.” - John 6:41-58

Albion · Jul 6, 2016

amariselle said:
Do you not think He was speaking of His coming death on the cross?

Why would he say all this about his body and blood and the bread and wine if all he was doing was telling them to be mindful of his coming death?

amariselle · Jul 6, 2016

Thursday said:
It is easy to understand, but you just make it up. That's not what the bible teaches or what early Christians believed.

55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them

Ah, I see, I'm "making up" that we must accept and admit our need for Jesus' sacrifice (because we are sinners)before taking part in communion.

There's nothing more to say then, if that's what you think.

Thursday · Jul 6, 2016

amariselle said:
Ah, I see, I'm "making up" that we must accept and admit our need for Jesus' sacrifice (because we are sinners)before taking part in communion.

There's nothing more to say then, if that's what you think.

You can read the truth in the bible. You need faith to accept it.

Ask Jesus to show you the truth about his real presence in the Eucharist.

Go to a Catholic Church and pray before the host. You will know that Jesus is physically present.

Albion · Jul 6, 2016

I'm hoping that post was made in response to someone else.

OrthodoxForever · Jul 6, 2016

Albion said:
You're right. Some people cite John 6 in an attempt to support Transubstantiation, but that passage cannot actually refer to the Lord's Supper which hadn't even been instituted by that time. And yet we find Jesus becoming impatient with the Jews he was addressing because they didn't interpret his words as referring to the Lord's Supper? Hardly.

How do you know it hadn't been yet when John clearly isn't written in chronological order?

amariselle · Jul 6, 2016

OrthodoxForever said:
Not the loaves and fish, later on in the chapter when it says this:

41 The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” 42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”

43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God. Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Meg]' has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”

53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.” - John 6:41-58

Again, entirely symbolic. Do you think Jesus was saying He was literally bread? Hardly.

Why are so many protestants anti-Catholic and/or anti-Orthodox

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