The Commandments of God(Father) and Son(Jesus)

EastCoastRemnant · Jul 5, 2016

Here was something I came upon last week that I hadn't considered before, see what you think.

We are told by Jesus that the OT Commandments were from His Father...

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Here we see that Jesus delineated between the Decalogue of the OT and the NT Commandments given by Christ (love your neighbour).

So then, this means that the OT Commandments are attributed to the Father and given by Him, correct so far? (I will wait for replies to confirm what I have said so far)

Hieronymus · Jul 5, 2016

When 'tradition' is not your teacher, there is no reason to do away with any of the Decalogue.
This is where i agree with SDA.
Indeed it is the 4th Commandment that is least believed and upheld.

And i've been thinking about "the Torah written in our hearts" lately, and i find myself wanting to keep the 4th Commandment too.
But, if someone needs my help on a sabbath, i will help out, out of love for my fellow humans.
Because the 2 equal NT Commandments overrule the Decalogue, even when the 4th Commandment is the most ancient Law of all (Genesis 2:1-4).

It's still a painful pity though that i fail in the 2 Great Commandments rather often...
...but that's another subject...
But when you keep the 2 Great Commandments, the 10 will follow 'automatically'.
...but the question often is where to obtain the Love to give...
Stubborn flesh..

bugkiller · Jul 5, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
Here was something I came upon last week that I hadn't considered before, see what you think.

We are told by Jesus that the OT Commandments were from His Father...

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Here we see that Jesus delineated between the Decalogue of the OT and the NT Commandments given by Christ (love your neighbour).

So then, this means that the OT Commandments are attributed to the Father and given by Him, correct so far? (I will wait for replies to confirm what I have said so far)

I just can't hardly believe my eyes as much as I've quoted that verse. I believe you are correct. This particular verse poses a very real challenge to SDA doctrine.

bugkiller

bugkiller · Jul 5, 2016

Hieronymus said:
When 'tradition' is not your teacher, there is no reason to do away with any of the Decalogue.
This is where i agree with SDA.
Indeed it is the 4th Commandment that is least believed and upheld.

And i've been thinking about "the Torah written in our hearts" lately, and i find myself wanting to keep the 4th Commandment too.
But, if someone needs my help on a sabbath, i will help out, out of love for my fellow humans.
Because the 2 equal NT Commandments overrule the Decalogue, even when the 4th Commandment is the most ancient Law of all (Genesis 2:1-4).

It's still a painful pity though that i fail in the 2 Great Commandments rather often...
...but that's another subject...
But when you keep the 2 Great Commandments, the 10 will follow 'automatically'.
...but the question often is where to obtain the Love to give...
Stubborn flesh..

The law never fallows automatically. That is why it is also called commandments. It isn't the Torah that's written on our hearts. Read the passage your idea comes from.

bugkiller

Hieronymus · Jul 5, 2016

bugkiller said:
The law never falls automatically.

follow, not fall.

bugkiller · Jul 5, 2016

Hieronymus said:
follow, not fall.

Edited my post. Sometimes letters I type don't appear. Sorry that I missed that in my post.

bugkiller

EastCoastRemnant · Jul 5, 2016

bugkiller said:
I just can't hardly believe my eyes as much as I've quoted that verse. I believe you are correct. This particular verse poses a very real challenge to SDA doctrine.

bugkiller

Thank you for confirming that...

Now, considering that Jesus said that He kept the Commandments of God and we know those to be the Decalogue, then this passage becomes all the more clear to which Commandments we are to be obedient...

Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Here we see that those considered the remnant during the time of the gentiles are those that keep not only the testimony of Jesus, which include His Commandments, but also those that are obedient to God's (the Fathers) Commandments as well. Which, of course most try to do in 9 of the 10...

Revelation 22:12-13
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Here we have a clear 'thus sayeth the Lord'... Jesus here is telling us that those that do "his" commandments will be translated. Jesus does not speak in the third person about Himself so the only other Commandments, are the OT Decalogue, His Fathers... which most people try and do for 9 of them.

These two passages show, directly from scripture, which Commandments are to be kept.... ALL of them.

Soyeong · Jul 5, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
Here was something I came upon last week that I hadn't considered before, see what you think.

We are told by Jesus that the OT Commandments were from His Father...

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Here we see that Jesus delineated between the Decalogue of the OT and the NT Commandments given by Christ (love your neighbour).

So then, this means that the OT Commandments are attributed to the Father and given by Him, correct so far? (I will wait for replies to confirm what I have said so far)

In John 7:16, Messiah said that his teachings were not his own, but that of the one who sent him, so he did not teach anything other than what the Father had commanded, and the Father commanded more than just the Decalogue of the OT. Jesus was not delineating between the two, but rather he was making parallel statements. In 1 John 2:4-6, we find another set of parallel statements where following Messiah's commands has the same meaning as walking in the same way that he walked, which was in complete obedience to the Torah. The command to love our neighbor is found in Leviticus 19:18, so that was not something brand new that Jesus taught, but rather that was perfectly in sync with what the Father had commanded, along with everything else he taught.

When the Israelites were in exile in Babylon, the common language was Aramaic. In Nehemiah 8:2-3, it talks about reading from the Torah and making it so that the people could understand, which was essentially paraphrasing plus commentary into Aramaic, which became known as the Targum. One of the things they did was use the Memra/Logos/Word of God for where God interacted with man to avoid giving Him human characteristics. Reading out loud from the Torah in multiple languages became a tradition, so it was likely that John heard Genesis 1 read out loud in Aramaic and was inspired to write his first chapter, which closely parallels it, and which also consecutively lists the characteristics that the Memra was considered by the Jews to have. By identifying Messiah as the memra, he was essentially saying that where the Targum talks about the Memra is where Messiah was interacting. The point of all of this is that the Targum says that it is the Memra or Word that delivered the law at Sinai.

bugkiller · Jul 6, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
Thank you for confirming that...

Now, considering that Jesus said that He kept the Commandments of God and we know those to be the Decalogue, then this passage becomes all the more clear to which Commandments we are to be obedient...

Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Here we see that those considered the remnant during the time of the gentiles are those that keep not only the testimony of Jesus, which include His Commandments, but also those that are obedient to God's (the Fathers) Commandments as well. Which, of course most try to do in 9 of the 10...

Revelation 22:12-13
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Here we have a clear 'thus sayeth the Lord'... Jesus here is telling us that those that do "his" commandments will be translated. Jesus does not speak in the third person about Himself so the only other Commandments, are the OT Decalogue, His Fathers... which most people try and do for 9 of them.

These two passages show, directly from scripture, which Commandments are to be kept.... ALL of them.

No sir!! John 15:10 says to keep the commandments of Jesus contrasting them with His Father's commandments. Thus the commandments we're to keep aren't found in the law.

You ignore or miss assign the pronouns of I JN 3:23. From the text of your OP its very clear you and John are talking about different sets of commandments.

Yes Rev 22:12-13 says very plainly the commandments of Jesus if you wish to say Jesus is speaking the words of that passage. JN 15:10 once again proves those commandments are found in the law. Jesus didn't issue the 10 Cs, His Father did though.

bugkiller

bugkiller · Jul 6, 2016

Soyeong said:
In John 7:16, Messiah said that his teachings were not his own, but that of the one who sent him, so he did not teach anything other than what the Father had commanded, and the Father commanded more than just the Decalogue of the OT. Jesus was not delineating between the two, but rather he was making parallel statements. In 1 John 2:4-6, we find another set of parallel statements where following Messiah's commands has the same meaning as walking in the same way that he walked, which was in complete obedience to the Torah. The command to love our neighbor is found in Leviticus 19:18, so that was not something brand new that Jesus taught, but rather that was perfectly in sync with what the Father had commanded, along with everything else he taught.

When the Israelites were in exile in Babylon, the common language was Aramaic. In Nehemiah 8:2-3, it talks about reading from the Torah and making it so that the people could understand, which was essentially paraphrasing plus commentary into Aramaic, which became known as the Targum. One of the things they did was use the Memra/Logos/Word of God for where God interacted with man to avoid giving Him human characteristics. Reading out loud from the Torah in multiple languages became a tradition, so it was likely that John heard Genesis 1 read out loud in Aramaic and was inspired to write his first chapter, which closely parallels it, and which also consecutively lists the characteristics that the Memra was considered by the Jews to have. By identifying Messiah as the memra, he was essentially saying that where the Targum talks about the Memra is where Messiah was interacting. The point of all of this is that the Targum says that it is the Memra or Word that delivered the law at Sinai.

This doesn't get around JN 15:10. If you think it does John isn't a reliable witness telling the truth.

bugkiller

Hieronymus · Jul 6, 2016

bugkiller said:
The law never fallows automatically.

FOLLOWS
When you have the Torah written in your heart, it FOLLOWS that you keep the 10, it's a fruit of the 2 Great equal Commandments, which in itself is a fruit of the Faith.

EastCoastRemnant · Jul 6, 2016

bugkiller said:
This doesn't get around JN 15:10. If you think it does John isn't a reliable witness telling the truth.

bugkiller

Where in John 15:10 does it tell us we are to not to abide in the Fathers love as well? Especially in light of the two passages in Revelation I showed you.

Yes Rev 22:12-13 says very plainly the commandments of Jesus if you wish to say Jesus is speaking the words of that passage.

It says the Commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus... two separate articles.

How long will you kick against the pricks instead of submitting to His will?

ewq1938 · Jul 6, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
Where in John 15:10 does it tell us we are to not to abide in the Fathers love as well? Especially in light of the two passages in Revelation I showed you.

It says the Commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus... two separate articles.

How long will you kick against the pricks instead of submitting to His will?

How about let's stop taking things from other religions and inserting them into Christianity? The 4th commandment regarding the Saturday Sabbath is not part of the new covenant anymore than killing a spotless lamb and releasing a goat into the wild is.

bugkiller · Jul 6, 2016

Hieronymus said:
FOLLOWS
When you have the Torah written in your heart, it FOLLOWS that you keep the 10, it's a fruit of the 2 Great equal Commandments, which in itself is a fruit of the Faith.

It isn't the Torah written on the heart. Check in with Jer 31:31-33.

Works of the law (Torah) are never described as fruit.

bugkiller

bugkiller · Jul 6, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
Where in John 15:10 does it tell us we are to not to abide in the Fathers love as well? Especially in light of the two passages in Revelation I showed you.

Ah yes avoid the issue by talking about something else. Those 2 passages in Revelation you mentioned are talking about a different set of commandments. Besides that you have no idea what the faith of Jesus is.

It says the Commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus... two separate articles.

As I mentioned bove you and JOhn are talking about different sets of commandments. I reference both JN 15:10 and I JN 3:23.

How long will you kick against the pricks instead of submitting to His will?

I will kick against your pricks forever and never submit to your will because I have a much better deal under the grace of the NC.

bugkiller

EastCoastRemnant · Jul 6, 2016

ewq1938 said:
How about let's stop taking things from other religions and inserting them into Christianity? The 4th commandment regarding the Saturday Sabbath is not part of the new covenant anymore than killing a spotless lamb and releasing a goat into the wild is.

Do you read the OT? Why would we read a document from "another religion"? What possible benefit could it have for us NT Christians?? Why are we listening to the teachings from another religion and inserting them into our Christianity?

ewq1938 · Jul 6, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
Do you read the OT? Why would we read a document from "another religion"?

Reading is far different than practicing. Do you pick and choose what parts of Judaism you insert into Christianity?

EastCoastRemnant · Jul 6, 2016

ewq1938 said:
Reading is far different than practicing. Do you pick and choose what parts of Judaism you insert into Christianity?

Interesting how you view the teachings of God as two different entities... was Judaism God's left brain perspective and Christianity His right?

ewq1938 · Jul 6, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
Interesting how you view the teachings of God as two different entities...

One came first and the other came after. Jews are expected to accept Christ but God does not expect Christians to practice Judaism.

was Judaism God's left brain perspective and Christianity His right?

I think first and second is a better analogy, kind of like first covenant and second covenant.

Travis93 · Jul 7, 2016

It's a false dichotomy to pit Jesus's commands against the Father's. One of Jesus's commands was not to think he came to abolish the law or to teach others to break it in Matthew 7:17-19. He reiterates this in Luke 16:17 by saying it's easier for heaven and earth to pass than the law to fail.

The Commandments of God(Father) and Son(Jesus)

I Must Decrease That He May Increase

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

I Must Decrease That He May Increase

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

I Must Decrease That He May Increase

I love you three.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

I Must Decrease That He May Increase

I love you three.

I Must Decrease That He May Increase

I love you three.

Well-Known Member

Similar threads