Christianity and free will

mikpat · Jul 3, 2016

Before Christ we had the Law of Moses, the Ten Commandments, basically laws, rules, guildlines for a "civil" society.

Following the Ten Commandments would or could, eventually lead to the Sermon on the Mount.
Thou shall not commit adultery can lead to love and respect of the other. Honor thy father and mother can lead to love and respect and caring etc. Respect for your neighbor can lead to caring about one's neighbor.

Granted a rather difficult process but then being a good Christian today, always is also a difficult task.

Geralt · Jul 4, 2016

mikpat said:
Geralt,

Idea - is something that exists in the mind, a conviction, an opinion, a trust in something etc.

Faith - a belief, beliefs (an idea) that is not based on proof. The Trinity is an idea, a conviction that people believe in, have faith in but is impossible to prove it, like angels. Is God Infinite, yes we have faith that, that attribute is part of the nature of God. Can't prove it but most Christians have faith in such an attribute.

The entire Nicene Creed is loaded with ideas, beliefs, that cannot be proved but it is firmly believed, faith, by millions of Christians, especially Catholics…

Proof—-usually follows the senses——evidence having probative weight, an arithmetical operation, math, logic,

what you have is a secular definition of faith.

if we believe in the Trinity, it is NOT without proof, but rather its definition is founded in scripture. and yet we do NOT just believe in scripture, we believe it to be true because we believe in GOD who reveals himself in scripture to be true.

and therefore we believe in the Trinity because we have faith in God who reveals himself that way in scripture.

we believe in this or that idea (not have FAITH on this or that idea) because we have faith. faith is always addressed to a person, not to an idea.

do not put the cart before the horse.

Anna the Seeker · Jul 5, 2016

Bible is the proof for us. At least it is for me because it does prove itself in prayers and even in the world events all over again.

Not all people are convinced, though. I know someone who could be called as agnostic/theist. He says that there very well might be a higher power but he says that Bible is just a fairytale. Those people are like Thomas in a sense, need more evidence that the Bible is the book.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 23, 2016

OutOfPlace_Christian said:
Is God sending big fish to swallow them up while they are still alive? I'm not saying God isn't just as active today as he was back then but if God did all those things today as well...people would probably change their minds and not wait until death to finally see what the consequences are to their actions (without repenting). :/ The fear of God being lost is what gives some people the guts to continue running away.

Jesus died to redeem them, and people still run from Him.
Jesus wept.

yeshuaslavejeff · Aug 13, 2016

OutOfPlace_Christian said:
Is God sending big fish to swallow them up while they are still alive?.....

No.
He lets them live out their lives and die in their sin,
then He resurrects them as He says to shame and judgment to destruction.

Job8 · Aug 23, 2016

Sultan Of Swing said:
So the person who used their free will to choose God, and the other who used their free will to reject God, what's the difference between them? Is the one who chose God somehow a better person than the one who rejected God? How did the one who chose God overcome the hardness of his own heart, and his own love of darkness, to come to a love of God? And why didn't the one who rejected God do the same things? Is one more righteous than the other, or are we all born into sin?

The answers are all there in Scripture. Some love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil. Some obey their conscience while others disregard it. Some respond to the Gospel while others do not. Some love their idols more than Christ, others choose Christ over idols. Study the narrative of the Rich Young Ruler. Then study the narrative about the twelve spies send by Moses to Canaan. Two believed God while ten did not.

jimmyjimmy · Aug 23, 2016

Job8 · Aug 23, 2016

jimmyjimmy said:
Yes. Only good people who trust God are saved. Sinners like tax collectors and prostitutes with evil deeds, don't stand a chance.

No. Only the so-called *non-elect* don't stand a chance. God simply *passes them over*. They couldn't get saved if their life depended on it (according to some).

jimmyjimmy · Aug 23, 2016

Job8 said:
No. Only the so-called *non-elect* don't stand a chance. God simply *passes them over*. They couldn't get saved if their life depended on it (according to some).

You are deflecting.

Jwesley · Aug 23, 2016

"Some??" love darkness and evil more than light.

Jesus says>> And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and "MEN" loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.<<< John 3:19 >> it is also written, there is "none" righteous no not one and none that seek after God.. Psalm 14.. It took Him to Love us first for us to love him; it took Him to seek us first for us to seek Him.. It is our response or, repentance, but who gave us the ability to repent? .. It is the goodness and kindness of GOD that leads thee to repentance.. The gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Peace

jimmyjimmy · Aug 23, 2016

Job8 · Aug 23, 2016

jimmyjimmy said:
I would say that if we can't number ourselves among the men who loved darkness, there is no chance of our being saved, as we have no need of salvation.

The context makes it crystal clear that Christ was speaking about those who REJECTED Him and did not get saved, not the ones who believed on Him.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Jwesley · Aug 23, 2016

Job8 said:
The context makes it crystal clear that Christ was speaking about those who REJECTED Him and did not get saved, not the ones who believed on Him.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Amen, this would be true for any non-believer, as we once were.

Ephesians 4:22-24 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

jimmyjimmy · Aug 24, 2016

Job8 · Aug 24, 2016

jimmyjimmy said:
I can't preach your gospel to sinners.

What you're really saying is that you can't preach the Bible to sinners. It is not my Gospel but God's Gospel. I gave you the relevant Scriptures, so now you don't know what to do with them.

jimmyjimmy · Aug 24, 2016

Job8 · Aug 24, 2016

jimmyjimmy said:
Your gospel is that the heathy have a place at the table, but the sick may not eat. There is no hope for sinners in what you have told me.

You have really got everything mixed up. According to Reformed Theology (to which I do not subscribe but to which you do) the non-elect have no chance of getting saved. According to Scripture, all sinners are invited to the table. But if you will recall, a whole bunch of them made up all kinds of excuses to not show up.

jimmyjimmy · Aug 24, 2016

Jwesley · Aug 24, 2016

Romans 5:6-8 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

sculleywr · Aug 26, 2016

jimmyjimmy said:
You are deflecting.

Not really, considering that is the central problem of the thread's discussion

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