End Times Spirit of Antichrist's New Face is Zionism and It's Supporters

NightHawkeye · Jun 28, 2016

precepts said:
It is not a major point because it has nothing to do with proving your interpretation of prophecy in a court of law, which is the case, not Christ, not whatever you're trying to make it out to be.

Everybody is arguing and trying to convince others that their interpretation is correct, but none can prove their case in a court of law. And why? Because they have no proof, only speculation and what they think, which is messed up!

Incorrect. Again, your underlying premise is incorrect.

Do not think for even a second that just because you are intent on converting everyone to your viewpoint, that everyone else is similarly attempting to do the same. Christianity has always been a voluntary call and remains so today. That is no less true in regard to Bible prophecy. The value is often more in the discussion than in the agreement. Far too often, once agreement is achieved all rational thought ceases. It is the discussion of dissimilar ideas which both stimulates thought and motivates one to the better.

precepts · Jun 28, 2016

NightHawkeye said:
Incorrect. Again, your underlying premise is incorrect.

It's against forum rules to tell you what you're doing, but these silly games are getting ridiculous. Here's the scenario, Mr. CIA op:

Straightshot said,

Good post BW .... and true

Scrubbing Israel from future prophecy is the rage today by most of the divides of the professing "church"

Hard at work they are, but to no avail .... the related scriptures on the matter are not to be denied

To which I replied,

That is so funny since you can't prove your position true in a court of law. ^_^

To which "you" repsonded,

LOL, noting that Jesus was never much concerned with proving anything in a court of law.

To which I replied,

LOL, which is not the point. ^_^

To which you replied,

Correction. For those who follow the messiah, it is a major point.

- How is it a major point concerning me telling Straightshot he can't prove his case in a court of law, which was my response to you:

It is not a major point because it has nothing to do with proving your interpretation of prophecy in a court of law, which is the case, not Christ, not whatever you're trying to make it out to be.

To which you are now responding with:

Incorrect. Again, your underlying premise is incorrect.

- Which again has nothing to do with anything. What underlying premise?

NightHawkeye said:
Do not think for even a second that just because you are intent on converting everyone to your viewpoint, that everyone else is similarly attempting to do the same.

I am not trying to convert a soul. I know it's not everyone that says Lord, Lord, is of God, so I try the spirits. It would be a shame to not share the truth.

NightHawkeye said:
Christianity has always been a voluntary call and remains so today. That is no less true in regard to Bible prophecy. The value is often more in the discussion than in the agreement. Far too often, once agreement is achieved all rational thought ceases. It is the discussion of dissimilar ideas which both stimulates thought and motivates one to the better.

Please!

NightHawkeye · Jun 28, 2016

precepts said:
It's against forum rules to tell you what you're doing, but these silly games are getting ridiculous.

Then perhaps you might want to consider lightening up. Take posts at face value instead of putting a spin on everything.

Just a suggestion ... since you feel the way you do.

precepts said:
- Which again has nothing to do with anything. What underlying premise?

The underlying premise I referred to was your immediately preceding claim to the effect that everyone was attempting to prove their arguments to a legal standard.

I would argue that most who post here are not.

precepts said:
Please!

Exactly!

Job8 · Jun 28, 2016

precepts said:
The spirit of antichrist has a new face and it's Zionism and her supporters.

The spirit of Antichrist is more evident in the brutal and senseless beheadings perpetrated by the Islamic State. Please see Revelation 13.

Straightshot · Jun 28, 2016

"The spirit of Antichrist is more evident in the brutal and senseless beheadings perpetrated by the Islamic State. Please see Revelation 13."

No doubt .... directly from Satan's cult religion of Islam

Blaming Israel is purely anti-semitic rant .... a diversion suggested by the devil himself

Hazrus · Jun 28, 2016

precepts said:
Absolutely all of Israel being saved is irrational since we all know man is saved by his works and not by his nationality.

The "all of Israel" being saved is referencing the 1st resurrection, when "all" the righteous will be saved, the separation of the sheep from the goats.

All Jews are not saints. That's just common sense.

I don't seem how some base their whole belief on one singular verse.

Precepts, I'm not basing my beliefs on one verse. I'm also saying that the Church is Israel - all Christians are Israel. Not a nationality.

Also, I don't agree with your statement that man is saved by his works. This negates the need for Jesus!

Biblewriter · Jun 28, 2016

precepts said:
So why all the many different interpretations?

Your answers defy even the most basic rules of logic. I stated that simply believing the scriptures is not interpreting them. And you answer, "then why are there so many interpretations?"

The unquestionable fact that many people choose to interpret the scriptures, instead of simply believing them, has absolutely zero bearing on the fact that simply believing what they say is not interpreting them.

precepts said:
And I have posted verses proving that "every" man went back to their own land after Babylon's fall mingled with end time references. Why didn't you address them instead of repeating what you said before?

I did not even consider this nonsense even worth answering. The scripture you quoted was about the fall of Babylon. You are interpreting the words "Every man will turn to his own people, And everyone will flee to his own land" (Isaiah 13:14) to mean that all the Jews returned to their own land. But Babylon was overthrown by Darius the Mede. (Daniel 5:31) But it was his successor Cyrus the king of Persia who allowed the Jews to return at a later time. (Ezra 1:1-4) And we are explicitly told how many of them actually did return. And it was only 42,360 at that time, plus 7,337 servants and maids. (Ezra 2:64-65) Compare this with the previous population of Judah, which we are told in 2 Samuel 24:9 included 500,000 soldiers.

So it was less than ten percent of Judah that returned. And this did not include any of the citizens of the other ten tribes, which we are told in 2 Samuel 24:9 included 800,000 valiant men that drew the sword.

And this is the return that you want to pretend was the promised return of all Israel.

precepts said:
You cannot address my points, and I don't see the rationality in you ignoring my reply to repeat what you said before as if I didn't address what you said before in my reply. Where''s the logic in it? I addressed you points and proved them wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt, but you totally ignored mine to repeat your claim again without any regards for mine? That's not right.

I repeat my points because you have not addressed them and cannot address them. The scriptures say, in crystal clear language, that all Israel will return to the land. And you say this cannot happen. Who should I believe. You, or God?

Biblewriter · Jun 28, 2016

precepts said:
Absolutely all of Israel being saved is irrational since we all know man is saved by his works and not by his nationality.

This post is a compendium of very serious errors. First, after being shown repeated scriptures explicitly stating that absolutely all of Israel will be saved, you answer that this is irrational. This is blatant unbelief.

Next, after denying that what God explicitly said by saying it was irrational, you went on the say exactly the opposite of what God explicitly says in other places.

You say that "we all know man is saved by his works." But the scriptures very plainly say that it is "not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us." Titus 3:5

Again, we read that "a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified." Galatians 2:16

And "by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

This point is vastly more important than eschatology. For anyone and everyone who is trusting in his or her own works to get to heaven is not on their way there at all.

precepts said:
The "all of Israel" being saved is referencing the 1st resurrection, when "all" the righteous will be saved, the separation of the sheep from the goats.

All Jews are not saints. That's just common sense.

I don't seem how some base their whole belief on one singular verse.

I have given you scripture after scripture which explicitly state what I am saying, and state it in very plain words. And you try to toss it all of as basing my "whole belief on one single verse"?

Your entire argument is based on assumptions, interpretations, and ignoring what God has explicitly said. Of course the Jews are not saints. That is why God will bring them to repentance. You claim that this is only my interpretation. But it is not. It is what God has plainly said, in some of the scriptures I quoted and in many others. The fact that you choose to not believe this does not make believing it "my interpretation."

I will again, and unequivocally, state that simply believing the scriptures is not interpreting them. You are interpreting the scriptures. I am believing them.

precepts · Jun 28, 2016

NightHawkeye said:
Then perhaps you might want to consider lightening up. Take posts at face value instead of putting a spin on everything.

When have I ever put a spin on anything? (Another topic change)

NightHawkeye said:
Just a suggestion ... since you feel the way you do.

???

NightHawkeye said:
The underlying premise I referred to was your immediately preceding claim to the effect that everyone was attempting to prove their arguments to a legal standard.

The underlying premise have nothing to do with with what we were discussing, me saying Straightshot couldn't prove his case in a court of law that you said is relevant to Christ not being concern about having to. Why do you keep changing the topic? You said for those who follow the Messiah, it's a major point. And I asked how is that a major point concerning Straightshot not being able to prove his point in a court of law?

NightHawkeye said:
I would argue that most who post here are not

And I never implied anyone was trying to plead their case at a legal standard. The premise was everyone here is arguing their point, but they can't prove their case because they don't have any proof.

Hazrus · Jun 28, 2016

Precepts, care to comment on your statement, specifically the part about being saved by works?

"Absolutely all of Israel being saved is irrational since we all know man is saved by his works and not by his nationality."

precepts · Jun 28, 2016

Job8 said:
The spirit of Antichrist is more evident in the brutal and senseless beheadings perpetrated by the Islamic State. Please see Revelation 13.

Please see the early Church prosecution, the great multitude found under the altar in Rev 6:9-11.

precepts · Jun 28, 2016

Deleted

precepts · Jun 28, 2016

Hazrus said:
Precepts, care to comment on your statement, specifically the part about being saved by works?

"Absolutely all of Israel being saved is irrational since we all know man is saved by his works and not by his nationality."

What is there to xplain? You're either saved by whatever and not by nationality.

Hazrus · Jun 28, 2016

precepts said:
Care to explain a man save because of his nationality.

OK here's the explanation. A man is not saved because of his nationality. I believe that the Church is Israel; not some ethnic group of people.

Your turn to explain the Works bit. I think you're on dangerous ground...

Biblewriter · Jun 28, 2016

precepts said:
Care to explain a man save because of his nationality.

No one will ever be saved because of his nationality. No one ever has been saved, or ever will be saved, except through faith. And God has explicitly promised that He will eventually bring all Israel to that saving faith.

But I have already posted, in this very thread, scripture that explicitly says that before that time, God will purge all the rebels from among them. Explicitly adding that they shall leave the country where they dwell, but they shall not enter the land of Israel.

Again, this is not interpretation, it was explicitly promised, in plain words, by the God that vannot lie.

precepts · Jun 28, 2016

Hazrus said:
Precepts, I'm not basing my beliefs on one verse. I'm also saying that the Church is Israel - all Christians are Israel. Not a nationality.

But that's not the context BW was using it in. He believes every single Jew will be saved, because of that one verse. ^_^

precepts · Jun 28, 2016

Hazrus said:
OK here's the explanation. A man is not saved because of his nationality. I believe that the Church is Israel; not some ethnic group of people.

I misread your post as to why I answered the way I did. I have since deleted the post and posted the right response.

Y

Hazrus said:
our turn to explain the Works bit. I think you're on dangerous ground...

I did in the previous post.

Biblewriter · Jun 28, 2016

precepts said:
But that's not the context BW was using it in. He believes every single Jew will be saved, because of that one verse.

I believe that not only every single Jew, but every single Israelite that is still living at that time will be saved. But they will not be saved because they are Israelites, but because they have trusted in Jesus.

And it is flat falsehood to pretend that I believe this because of one verse. I believe it because God explicitly said it, not just one time, and not just in one place, but many times in many places. I have already quoted several pf these in this very thread.

But this will only be after the Lord has purged out all the rebels from their midst by death. And I have also posted the scriptures about this in this very thread.

Your problem is that you place greater importance on your interpretation of the meanings of a relatively small number of scriptures than you do upon the explicit statements of very many times more other scriptures that plainly state the very opposite of what you choose to believe.

precepts · Jun 28, 2016

Biblewriter said:
Your answers defy even the most basic rules of logic. I stated that simply believing the scriptures is not interpreting them. And you answer, "then why are there so many interpretations?"

You're such a smart guy. Do everybody read scripture and believe the same thing? No. But I do get the drift.

Biblewriter said:
The unquestionable fact that many people choose to interpret the scriptures, instead of simply believing them, has absolutely zero bearing on the fact that simply believing what they say is not interpreting them.

Yet you have an interpretation. You read scriptures one way and others read it another way. The only way to believe scripture without interpreting it is to just look on the book and just believe. ^_^

Biblewriter said:
I did not even consider this nonsense even worth answering. The scripture you quoted was about the fall of Babylon. You are interpreting the words "Every man will turn to his own people, And everyone will flee to his own land" (Isaiah 13:14) to mean that all the Jews returned to their own land. But Babylon was overthrown by Darius the Mede. (Daniel 5:31) But it was his successor Cyrus the king of Persia who allowed the Jews to return at a later time. (Ezra 1:1-4) And we are explicitly told how many of them actually did return. And it was only 42,360 at that time, plus 7,337 servants and maids. (Ezra 2:64-65) Compare this with the previous population of Judah, which we are told in 2 Samuel 24:9 included 500,000 soldiers.

Let's separate the sense from the nonsense. The verse says when Babylon falls "everyone" will flee to his own land. But "everyone" doesn't mean "everyone" as in nations because it was Cyrus that set them free and not Darius. So what are you saying, that the scripture is untrue?
.

Biblewriter said:
So it was less than ten percent of Judah that returned. And this did not include any of the citizens of the other ten tribes, which we are told in 2 Samuel 24:9 included 800,000 valiant men that drew the sword.

And this is the return that you want to pretend was the promised return of all Israel.

You can't ignore some verses and promote others. No verse in scripture says only Judah returned from Babylon - fact #1. Fact #2 - All the prophecies concerning the Babylonian captivity spoke of Israel's return; for example, Jer 33 specifically mentions Judah and Israel returning from Babylon. Jer 32:15 says all the land would be inhabited again, the reason why Jerem--h bought his uncle's field.

Biblewriter said:
I repeat my points because you have not addressed them and cannot address them. The scriptures say, in crystal clear language, that all Israel will return to the land. And you say this cannot happen. Who should I believe. You, or God?

That is so untrue. I addressed your points word for word. I didn't just quote everything you said and wrote an essay like you do. :clap:

precepts · Jun 28, 2016

Biblewriter said:
No one will ever be saved because of his nationality. No one ever has been saved, or ever will be saved, except through faith. And God has explicitly promised that He will eventually bring all Israel to that saving faith.

But I have already posted, in this very thread, scripture that explicitly says that before that time, God will purge all the rebels from among them. Explicitly adding that they shall leave the country where they dwell, but they shall not enter the land of Israel.

Again, this is not interpretation, it was explicitly promised, in plain words, by the God that vannot lie.

There was a time when you seemed more intelligible.

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