Annihilationism

What is your view of the final state of the unrepentant.

  • Annihilationism (I believe the unrepentant will be destroyed)

    Votes: 26 46.4%
  • Traditionalism (I believe the unrepentant will suffer eternal conscious torment in hell)

    Votes: 27 48.2%
  • Universalism (I believe that everyone will eventually be saved)

    Votes: 3 5.4%

  • Total voters
    56
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Job8

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Isn't that similar to what the serpent was teaching?
The serpent was teaching that the knowledge of good and evil would cause human beings to become little gods. He also said "Ye shall NOT surely die", but God said that in the day that Adam ate of the forbidden fruit he would SURELY DIE. Yet Adam did not drop dead on that day, and lived on until he was 930 years old.

However he was SEPARATED from God (and from the Garden of Eden) when he sinned. That establishes that the Second Death is eternal separation from God, and at the same time that all human beings are born separated from God until they receive the New Birth. Those who are not born again experience the Second Death -- ETERNAL separation from God in torment in the Lake of Fire.

ANNIHILATIONISM = ESCAPISM FROM REALITY
 
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ClothedInGrace

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The serpent was teaching that the knowledge of good and evil would cause human beings to become little gods. He also said "Ye shall NOT surely die", but God said that in the day that Adam ate of the forbidden fruit he would SURELY DIE. Yet Adam did not drop dead on that day, and lived on until he was 930 years old.

However he was SEPARATED from God (and from the Garden of Eden) when he sinned. That establishes that the Second Death is eternal separation from God, and at the same time that all human beings are born separated from God until they receive the New Birth. Those who are not born again experience the Second Death -- ETERNAL separation from God in torment in the Lake of Fire.

ANNIHILATIONISM = ESCAPISM FROM REALITY
Or perhaps God in His grace let Adam live longer than he should have so that the messiah could come and rescue man from sin and death? Death is not eternal separation from God: death is death. Look, I know you are trying really hard to justify your interpretation of the scriptures, but maybe, just maybe you have a view of death that nobody in the OT or NT had. Why is death constantly paralleled with sleep in the OT, NT, and Jesus if the dead are actually awake and living?
 
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aiki

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Your entire post here is just interpreting things through the immortal soul framework. I could go through all of those scriptures and explain why they don't mean what you think they do, but it is probably a waste of my time.

I am not interpreting through an "immortal soul framework" but simply acknowledging what Scripture plainly states. It is you who appears to be a slave to an interpretive bias. You could go through all the scriptures I cited and offer your spin on them, but I'm sure I could counter every spin you make. This isn't my first rodeo in this particular matter.

One thing I will address, however, is the idea that death is always an "utter end of one's existence." It is the end of life, and the reason why there is a second death is because we must be resurrected from the first death. After the second death there will be no resurrection from it.

Ah, so "death" doesn't mean death in the sense in which it is meant in the phrase "second death," which is annihilation. So, you recognize, then, that the term "death" does not always mean annihilation. That's a start. Now, apply that fact to the way you interpret the term in your favorite proof texts and consider them in the light of the verses and passages I cited.

Ever wonder how Moses and Elijah appear on the Mount of Transfiguration with Jesus? The Resurrection hadn't happened; the remains of these men were still buried in the ground. But, there they are having a chat with Jesus. Seems like they have a spiritual existence quite apart from their physical bodies (like those saints in heaven in Revelation 6 who are robed in white and cry out to God for justice). Given that this is what Scripture teaches about our immaterial soul, I'm not surprised.

Selah.
 
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ClothedInGrace

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I am not interpreting through an "immortal soul framework" but simply acknowledging what Scripture plainly states. It is you who appears to be a slave to an interpretive bias. You could go through all the scriptures I cited and offer your spin on them, but I'm sure I could counter every spin you make. This isn't my first rodeo in this particular matter.



Ah, so "death" doesn't mean death in the sense in which it is meant in the phrase "second death," which is annihilation. So, you recognize, then, that the term "death" does not always mean annihilation. That's a start. Now, apply that fact to the way you interpret the term in your favorite proof texts and consider them in the light of the verses and passages I cited.

Ever wonder how Moses and Elijah appear on the Mount of Transfiguration with Jesus? The Resurrection hadn't happened; the remains of these men were still buried in the ground. But, there they are having a chat with Jesus. Seems like they have a spiritual existence quite apart from their physical bodies (like those saints in heaven in Revelation 6 who are robed in white and cry out to God for justice). Given that this is what Scripture teaches about our immaterial soul, I'm not surprised.

Selah.
You misunderstand what annihilation is: it simply means complete destruction, and when you completely destroy someone they die. The first death is annihilation, and the second death in the lake of fire is also annihilation. The difference is that one is temporary due to the resurrection and final judgement while the other is eternal.

The transfiguration is not enough to prove that souls are immortal. It was a special vision showing Jesus in future glory being greater than the law and the prophets.

How do you interpret this passage in light of the doctrine of an immortal soul?

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul who sins shall die...


Before you grab a different translation and say the word is actually 'person,' just know that the Hebrew is nephesh, which is translated as soul 475 times in the OT. If you think that it should be translated 'person,' that's fine. So how about this verse, instead:

Psalms 146:4
His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.


If the OT writers believed that people went to a conscious afterlife, then why do they say that thoughts perish at death?

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten.


Well, surely the dead know something if their soul lives on after death, right? Oh, here is a doozy:

Psalms 115:7
The dead do not praise the LORD, Nor do any who go down into silence


Wait... If the soul is immortal, then why don't the dead praise God? Why are they silent? Maybe the dead are not alive and conscious?

Isaiah 38:18
For Sheol cannot thank You, Death cannot praise You; Those who go down to the pit cannot hope for Your faithfulness.


Psalms 94:17
If the LORD had not been my help, My soul would soon have dwelt in the abode of silence.


People are pretty silent when they die it seems... Maybe the dead are in a sleep-like state? Maybe that's why we need to be resurrected out of the grave? Idk. I guess I could be wrong, but whose interpretations are more consistent?
 
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ewq1938

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Those verses refer to the dead body not the soul or spirit. They are all written from the earthly perspective. All related verses written about the afterlife shows souls fully alert and capable of speaking. No one's soul or spirit is asleep nor do those even need sleep.



You misunderstand what annihilation is: it simply means complete destruction, and when you completely destroy someone they die. The first death is annihilation, and the second death in the lake of fire is also annihilation. The difference is that one is temporary due to the resurrection and final judgement while the other is eternal.

The transfiguration is not enough to prove that souls are immortal. It was a special vision showing Jesus in future glory being greater than the law and the prophets.

How do you interpret this passage in light of the doctrine of an immortal soul?

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul who sins shall die...


Before you grab a different translation and say the word is actually 'person,' just know that the Hebrew is nephesh, which is translated as soul 475 times in the OT. If you think that it should be translated 'person,' that's fine. So how about this verse, instead:

Psalms 146:4
His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.


If the OT writers believed that people went to a conscious afterlife, then why do they say that thoughts perish at death?

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten.


Well, surely the dead know something if their soul lives on after death, right? Oh, here is a doozy:

Psalms 115:7
The dead do not praise the LORD, Nor do any who go down into silence


Wait... If the soul is immortal, then why don't the dead praise God? Why are they silent? Maybe the dead are not alive and conscious?

Isaiah 38:18
For Sheol cannot thank You, Death cannot praise You; Those who go down to the pit cannot hope for Your faithfulness.


Psalms 94:17
If the LORD had not been my help, My soul would soon have dwelt in the abode of silence.


People are pretty silent when they die it seems... Maybe the dead are in a sleep-like state? Maybe that's why we need to be resurrected out of the grave? Idk. I guess I could be wrong, but whose interpretations are more consistent?
 
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ClothedInGrace

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Those verses refer to the dead body not the soul or spirit. They are all written from the earthly perspective. All related verses written about the afterlife shows souls fully alert and capable of speaking. No one's soul or spirit is asleep nor do those even need sleep.
Those verses need to be a little more specific then... They might convince someone that souls can actually die! :confused:

This one especially; whoever wrote it must have been tired:

Psalms 94:17
If the LORD had not been my help, My soul would soon have dwelt in the abode of silence.


He must have meant his body, though, I am sure. :rolleyes:
 
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ewq1938

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Those verses need to be a little more specific then... They might convince someone that souls can actually die! :confused:

This one especially; whoever wrote it must have been tired:

Psalms 94:17
If the LORD had not been my help, My soul would soon have dwelt in the abode of silence.


He must have meant his body, though, I am sure. :rolleyes:

It's very silent inside of a grave. Dead bodies don't even snore!
 
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Timothew

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Matthew 25:41 & 46
Thanks. One group goes to eternal life and the other does not, according to Matthew 25:46. That proves that the goats do not live forever in hell being tormented alive. The fire from verse 41 burns them up.
You should have read through the thread. Those verses were already discussed.
 
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Hieronymus

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True but souls don't die when the body dies. They can only die in the LOF.
This is the confusing thing though..
Because in Genesis 2 we read that the body of dust that receives the breath (ruach) of life is a living soul.
Later on we read the 'ruach' goes back to God.
So... :scratch:
 
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pshun2404

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I will give one of the reasons that I believe that the wages of sin is death and not eternal torture in hell.

The Bible specifically states in Romans 6:23 that the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

That settles the question right there. There is no possibility that the wages of sin is to be tortured by God for all eternity.

The problem that causes confusion stems from the judicial interpretation posed and developed by the Roman Catholic church. The condemnation is interpreted as "punishment" carried out eternally by God. But God takes no pleasure in the condemnation of the wicked. The place where those who reject God and the knowledge of God (the rebellious pride filled individuals who in rejection of God assume to be lord of their own life and do what is right in their own eyes) go to is a place God made for Satan and his cohorts. It was never meant for human spirit persons. But since they reject Him and insist on having noting to do with Him there is no other place for them to go.

All spirit beings live forever, the question is where will they be? In this place (we call gehenna or hell proper) is a place where each of these self lords ARE their own lord. Each is a God unto their self. In this place there is nothing of God. His love and protection and all He would have provided (all that is of Him) is not there. There is utter aloneness (see Luke 16's Rich man) because relationship and fellowship was of God. There is no light (it is utter darkness) because God created light and they rejected Him and all that is of Him. There is no orderliness to calm the fires of chaos. No meeting of the needs of the soul's hungers and appetites, and so on...

The torment for eternity is the knowledge that they will now exist in this state forever and it was all their choice. They are now each as a god unto themselves (Genesis 3:5) but because they are not actually God they have no power to create and so continually wail and gnash their teeth....
 
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Timothew

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All spirit beings live forever, the question is where will they be?

I just picked out part of your post to pose a question to you that I think is important.

Does the Bible actually SAY that "All spirit beings live forever"?

Ezekiel 18:4 says that the soul who sins shall die. This shows that souls do not live forever. Jesus also said in Matthew 10:28 that we should fear the one who can destroy both the soul and the body. This also shows that souls can be destroyed. Paul says in Romans 6:23 that the wages of sin is death, if we are spirit beings who will live forever, then the wages of sin CANNOT be death as Paul said.

Think about this, what was the oldest lie in the Book? What is the oldest lie recorded in the Bible? Wasn't it "Surely you will not die"? The Bible does not say that we are spirit beings who live forever. The Bible says that we will die unless we receive eternal life from God.
 
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aiki

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The transfiguration is not enough to prove that souls are immortal. It was a special vision showing Jesus in future glory being greater than the law and the prophets.

Not enough? Interesting. People long dead appearing with Jesus and talking to him without resurrected bodies does not suggest to you that you need to re-think your views on the soul and afterlife? Whatever symbolic purposes there may have been in Christ's transfiguration they are irrelevant to the fact that both Moses and Elijah were really, actually, talking with Christ, which they shouldn't have been doing if souls do not survive the death of their bodies.

How do you interpret this passage in light of the doctrine of an immortal soul?

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul who sins shall die...

Ezekiel goes on to explain what he means in this verse:

Ezekiel 18:26
26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies.

It seems pretty clear from the context in which Ezekiel 18:20 stands, that "soul," or "nephesh" in Hebrew, is being used as a pronoun for the wicked father described in verse 18 (and, by extension, all wicked men) and could, without any corruption of meaning, be rendered "he" instead of "soul." Ezekiel, then, is NOT teaching the mortality of the soul but is speaking to the matter of individual responsibility for sin. "Soul" is used here as a general referent to wicked men, not as a specific referent to one's immaterial soul.

Psalms 146:4
His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.


If the OT writers believed that people went to a conscious afterlife, then why do they say that thoughts perish at death?

You might understand better what this verse means by considering the many Bible translations that render this verse as "plans" rather than "thoughts." In any case, from our temporal perspective, seeing only the death of the body, the Psalmist's description is quite accurate. I would think, though, that this verse favors my position rather than yours. The Psalmist makes it clear that the body and soul are not inextricably intertwined such that when the body dies the soul also expires. He says instead that the "spirit departs" the body. This accords very well with other verses like:

Genesis 35:18
18 And so it was, as her (Rachel's) soul was departing (for she died), that she called his name Ben-Oni; but his father called him Benjamin.

and,

1 Kings 17:21-22
21 And he stretched himself out on the child three times, and cried out to the Lord and said, "O Lord my God, I pray, let this child's soul come back to him."
22 Then the Lord heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came back to him, and he revived.

This last verse is interesting because it is not simply that animating energy returns to the child's body but the "soul of the child," just as Elijah requested. Why would this be the case if the "soul" is just "life-force"? Why would Elijah ask, not merely for a re-animation of the child, but for the child's soul to be returned to him, if he believed the soul did not survive the death of the body?

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten.
Well, surely the dead know something if their soul lives on after death, right?


From a temporal, earthly perspective the writer of Ecclesiastes is right. And this is the perspective from which he is clearly writing. He is speaking of the condition of the corpses of the dead that are utterly without awareness.

Oh, here is a doozy:

Psalms 115:7
The dead do not praise the LORD, Nor do any who go down into silence


Wait... If the soul is immortal, then why don't the dead praise God? Why are they silent? Maybe the dead are not alive and conscious?

I refer you again to the martyred saints of Revelation 6. They are alive, clothed and speaking to God. But they are spirit beings, souls departed from their physical bodies, not the corpses the Psalmist is describing in the verse above. And their heavenly condition corresponds perfectly to what Paul wrote:

2 Corinthians 5:6-8
6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.
7 For we walk by faith, not by sight.
8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.


Selah.
 
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ClothedInGrace

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I think the core issue regarding the afterlife and the final judgement is the misunderstanding of what a soul actually is. We learn all we need to about the body, spirit, and soul in Genesis 2:7 which reads as follows:

Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

The body is obviously that which was formed from the dust, but notice how it says the man himself (adam in Hebrew, not basar) was formed, not simply his body (which may dispel the idea that man is something apart from his body). The spirit is the breath of life which animates the body; the word for spirit in Hebrew is ruach, which means breath or wind basically, so the breath of life is obviously the spirit. The soul, or the being, is the final result; the word for living being is nephesh in Hebrew, which is translated most often as soul.

A soul is not some immaterial form that exists apart from the spirit and body, but rather it is the union between the body and the spirit. So when the body returns to dust and the spirit returns to God, there is no being or soul left except in the mind of God who is able to resurrect us out of the sleep of death.

Before you say the soul is immortal, prove that you understand what a soul actually is.
 
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ewq1938

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This is the confusing thing though..
Because in Genesis 2 we read that the body of dust that receives the breath (ruach) of life is a living soul.


That is a dif use of the word soul which is unrelated to the soul within a body. Sometimes a body is called a soul but it's a different soul. The soul and spirit are united together so when the spirit leaves to go to God the souls is there as well.
 
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IKtmRL

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"Eternal" in my understanding can mean "eternally existing" outside of time (God) in future (I.e hosts of heaven and saints) or "eternal in consequence" (God's final judgement through Christ). so after judgement and justifiable punishment (all through God's Word) then annihilation fits both God's justice and mercy in my understanding.
 
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ewq1938

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Heb_12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

G2654
?ata?a??´s??
katanalisko¯
kat-an-al-is'-ko
From G2596 and G355; to consume utterly: - consume.

compare that to this:


Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

G622
a?p?´???µ?
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.


Both speak about fire which can fully destroy/consume something...the fire of a star is very hot, but that man can recreate the same temperatures in welding makes me think the fire of "hell" is something far stronger/hotter.




Fire represents a destructive force. This lake of fire won't be normal fire as we can create ourselves. I believe it to be God himself since God is a consuming fire. So God can create something, and can uncreate something as well. I believe the lake of fire is simply an uncreating process described in a way simple so people could understand it's basic function- destruction.



There was a time none of us existed. God has decided that the bad, wicked, evil etc etc of us should return to that non-existence. There is a fire which is unlike any fire man knows which will be used to destroy souls which essentially and definitively uncreates them.

Psalms 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.




There is only one kind of eternal life, and that is with God as overcomers judged to life. Those judged to death on judgment day, which is called the second death, will not have eternal life in hell or torment. Their punishment is death and that punishment will last for all eternity. They shall not live eternally in agony because they shall not have eternal life of any kind.




Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Don't assume “day and night forever and ever” is literal:

Isa 34:8 For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
Isa 34:9 And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
Isa 34:10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

Isaiah uses similar language concerning Edom and Edom is not still burning. This is an intentional exaggeration and should be understood in that way just as Rev 20:10 should be.

Another example:

Exo 21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.


Not literally forever of course. It simply means "a long time", ie: the rest of his life, an intentional exaggeration.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Sodom and Gomorrha are not still burning therefore this eternal fire does not imply the target burns forever but this fire exists eternally whether it has something to burn or not and since God is a consuming fire it makes sense that it is eternal because God is eternal. Remember that this fire isn't actual fire. The word fire is used because it's the closest way for us to have any chance to understand the destructive nature and result of this "fire".



And look at how many scriptures refute the idea of eternal life in hell fire:



"The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4.

"He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Revelation 2:11

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14,15.

"The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved." Psalm 75:3.

"Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more." Psalm 104:35.

"Consume them in wrath, consume them, that they may not be." Psalm 59:13.

"The Lord preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy." Psalm 145:20

"When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever: Psalm 92:7

"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be as stubble; and the day cometh that shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." Malachi 4:1

"And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed." Isaiah 1:28

"Enter ye in at the straight gate: for wide is the fate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat." Matthew 7:13

"But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." Psalms 37:20

Judgment is a decision to reward or punish someone. The judgement/punishment for sin is death (Romans 6:23), which is also called the second death (Rev 21:8), and that judgement/punishment is written to be eternal/everlasting (Mark 3:29, Hebrews 6:2). So, eternal punishment is an eternal death.



Two things happen to the wicked. First they will die the second death which means soul and body dies and then their soul and body shall be destroyed.


Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


Here we have death of the soul likened to destruction of the soul. One cannot be destroyed without dying so the two go hand in hand. While the Greek word here can mean several things, we know from other scriptures esp. the OT which has only one meaning for "destruction" being literal destruction, that this word here means:

apollumi
Thayer Definition:
1)to destroy
1a)to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin
1)to destroy
1b)render useless
1c)to kill
1d)to declare that one must be put to death
1e) metaphorically to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell
1f) to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed
2) to destroy
2a) to lose
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G575 and the base of G3639
Citing in TDNT: 1:394, 67





Psalms 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.


This also relates the death of the wicked to their complete destruction/consumation as well as death.




Psalms 145:20 The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.


H8045
????
sha^mad
BDB Definition:
1) to destroy, exterminate, be destroyed, be exterminated
1a) (Niphal)
1a1) to be annihilated, be exterminated
1a2) to be destroyed, be devastated
1b) (Hiphil)
1b1) to annihilate, exterminate
1b2) to destroy
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2406






Lets use the same logic some apply. We know that our preservation by the Lord shall be eternal, known as salvation or eternal life then the opposite for the wicked would be eternal death and destruction right? Not to be preserved to suffer eternal torture!



Isaiah 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.
Isaiah 1:28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.



Here the same concept. All sinners judged and consumed at the same time which cannot be anything other than the final judgement.




The punishment for sin is death (Romans 6:23), which is also called the second death (Rev 20, 21), and that judgement/decision (also called damnation) is written to be eternal/everlasting (Mark 3:29, Hebrews 6:2).


Psalms 92:7 When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:



Some teach that God will not do as he says.


Psalms 37:16 A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked.
Psalms 37:17 For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the LORD upholdeth the righteous.
Psalms 37:18 The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.
Psalms 37:19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.
Psalms 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Do they perish, consumed away in smoke or do they live forever in torture?? Scripture is clear!


Psalms 145:20 The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.


Psalms 104:35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD.


Isaiah 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.
Isaiah 1:28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.

Isaiah 1:29 For they shall be ashamed of the oaks which ye have desired, and ye shall be confounded for the gardens that ye have chosen.
Isaiah 1:30 For ye shall be as an oak whose leaf fadeth, and as a garden that hath no water.
Isaiah 1:31 And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them.



2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;



Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Hebrews 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


Jeremiah 6:27 I have set thee for a tower and a fortress among my people, that thou mayest know and try their way.
Jeremiah 6:28 They are all grievous revolters, walking with slanders: they are brass and iron; they are all corrupters.
Jeremiah 6:29 The bellows are burned, the lead is consumed of the fire; the founder melteth in vain: for the wicked are not plucked away.
Jeremiah 6:30 Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them.

Why are they wicked?

Jeremiah 6:27 I have set thee for a tower and a fortress among my people, that thou mayest know and try their way.
Jeremiah 6:28 They are all grievous revolters, walking with slanders: they are brass and iron; they are all corrupters.
Jeremiah 6:29 The bellows are burned, the lead is consumed of the fire; the founder melteth in vain: for the wicked are not plucked away.
Jeremiah 6:30 Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them.





They are corrupt and God has rejected them.





Psalms 37:16 A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked.
Psalms 37:17 For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the LORD upholdeth the righteous.
Psalms 37:18 The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.
Psalms 37:19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.
Psalms 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.



The righteous ones will be saved but those unrighteous will be consumed away.


2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

They wouldn't receive the truth to be saved so they shall be destroyed!

2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2 Thessalonians 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.



Those that had pleasure in unrighteousness and received not the truth shall perish and be damned.






Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2851&t=KJV

1) correction, punishment, penalty

The lexicon there says the word punishment in this verse means "correction, punishment, penalty" not firery torment. As I have been saying, the kind of "correction, punishment, penalty" inflicted is unnamed in this verse but is given many places elsewhere as both death and destruction.



The righteous are not sinless but they repent and love God and believe upon Christ and that is counted righteous and though all are wicked in some sense, it is only those who love unrighteousness, who do not love God, who don't repent and don't follow Christ that shall be destroyed.


Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.



The way to destruction is wide and many will be destroyed. FEW will find the way to life. Read it more than once if you don't believe this. Christ said it and it is true.
 
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StanJ

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Thanks. One group goes to eternal life and the other does not, according to Matthew 25:46. That proves that the goats do not live forever in hell being tormented alive. The fire from verse 41 burns them up.
You should have read through the thread. Those verses were already discussed.
The Lake of Fire is metaphorical not actual. Besides which fire cannot destroy the spirit. Finding the context of what happens to these people is in Revelation 20:10, which clearly shows this punishment lasts 'day and night for ever and ever'. Death in the Bible, only ever refers to the body, not the spirit/soul.
 
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